An Open Appeal - Don't Vote Fianna Fáil!

Liam Byrne

Fitzerb wrote: »

Firemen risk their life for their country, so do Garda, and so did Jerry McCabe. But Gerry Admas’s mates didn’t value his worth to this Country.

Credit where credit's due : +1

Fitzerb

goat2 wrote: »

Mr.Micro wrote: »

oh but they once were, and deep down they know they can again
fall in love, i meant to say

I have just reported the fact that you have changed my original post. If this is the best you can do to win an argument then it really devalues the boards.

Mr.Micro

goat2 wrote: »

Mr.Micro wrote: »

oh but they once were, and deep down they know they can again
fall in love, i meant to say

Oh I doubt that. its not every day that the nation is sold out and our sovereignty given away. So long as the massive debts remains people will not forget.

goat2

Fitzerb wrote: »

goat2 wrote: »

I have just reported the fact that you have changed my original post. If this is the best you can do to win an argument then it really devalues the boards.

i did not do that on purpose, i am sorry, i dont know what happened, but it was another post i was answering to, again my apoligies, and i did not mean to have that happen,

Het-Field

Brenireland wrote: »

In case you have not noticed, all forecasts were downgraded last month.




The plummet of 13 places in 2008 in the OECD and EU rankings has also escaped your notice ? Otherwise you are deliberately misrepresenting the situation

Honestly, you must be the last person who is buying the FF spin.

Look I have seen Fine Gael 5 point Plan and I complement them for their organisational skill it is well put together & very understandable for most.

Now here are some points I came across with regards FG & should they get into government.

With regards Neutrality 1st off!

& this is in fact what the minister of defence has stated!:

Defence Spokesperson, Niall Collins has warned that Fine Gael in government would endanger Irish neutrality.

“In their manifesto, Fine Gael say that they want ‘Ireland to get involved in the construction of a new European security system at an early stage so that we can join and influence it’.”

“This is a deeply concerning move. There is no doubt but that this would be a precursor to a deeper military engagement in Europe.”

“It also seems to me that this is one of the reasons they published their manifesto so late in the campaign lest this become a big issue.”

“Fine Gael also wants us to abandon the requirement to that our Defence Forces participate only in United Nations approved missions. I believe that this is fundamentally misguided and that Irish people are only comfortable with our Defence Forces serving overseas in UN Missions. They also know that the UN flag provides added security and protection to Irish troops on such missions. Abandoning the UN mandate could put the lives of our Defence Forces in jeopardy. That’s not a risk that Fianna Fáil is willing to take.”

“Make no mistake. Fine Gael in government would be a big threat to our neutrality.”

Now with regards FG'S Policy on Agriculture Fisheries & food!/this is what Brendan Smith had to say:

“decimation of the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and demonstrates a staggering misunderstanding of the Department and its relationship with the Irish farming community and the multi-billion agri-food industry.”

The Fine Gael proposals raise more questions than they do solutions and fly in the face of its commitment to reduce the number of Government agencies, with a commitment to a one-stop-shop which will be responsible for farm payments.

Is it intended that the Single Farm Payment, REPS, AEOS, Disadvantaged Area Scheme, Grassland Sheep Scheme, Forestry premia payments will all be paid by the same agency as will make Social Protection payments? Is it intended that eligibility for payments will be determined by an agency other than the one-stop-shop paying agency or will thousands of staff from the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food now transfer to the paying agency?

Direct payments to Irish farmers are worth some €1.8 billion per annum and Ireland has consistently been one of the first countries to release single payment funding and has the most efficient payment record of any member state of the EU. Fine Gael’s proposals have the obvious potential to seriously compromise this record and, far from making the payments system more efficient, could significantly delay the timing of farm payments, causing serious cashflow problems and putting considerable financial pressure on farm families.

Fianna Fáil has recognised the value of the agri-food sector and has identified it as being central to economic recovery in Ireland over the next decade. Ireland’s reputation for very high quality food production has been hard-earned and could be easily lost.

The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food plays a crucial role in protecting food safety, as evidenced on several occasions recently. At all times, the inter-agency approach has worked effectively and the proposal to establish a “new super-agency makes no sense and will be completely counter-productive to the targets set out in Food Harvest 2020 by removing the Department from any involvement in monitoring food safety. The reality is that the agri-food sector is a seamless chain from farm to fork and the Fine Gael proposals involve the removal of the Department from that chain. Such a move would seriously undermine the quality of vital professional services offered to our largest indigenous industry”, stated Brendan Smith.

Minister Smith concluded by saying that “public Service reform is undoubtedly necessary and very considerable progress has already been made in the rationalisation of the Department’s local office network and the increased use of IT, both by farmers and the Department, with a consequential substantial reduction in staff numbers, particularly over the past two years, which have yielded significant financial savings for the Exchequer. The Fine Gael proposals in relation to the future of the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food smack of reform for reform’s sake.”


And this is another important topic with regards the Irish Language & Enda Kenny's position,this is from Mary Coughlan:

Enda Kenny’s call on anyone who disagrees with his Irish language policy to ‘grow up’ is an insult to the majority of Irish people who see through his increasingly bizarre defence of his discredited plan to downgrade the status of Irish in our education system.



The only one who needs to ‘grow up’ and admit he is wrong on this issue is Enda Kenny. Speaking on An Saol Ó Dheas on Raidió na Gaeltachta this morning Mr. Kenny failed yet again to provide a single shred of evidence or research to support his position.



In recent weeks, as he has come under increasing pressure on this issue, Mr.Kenny has been talking vaguely about ‘carrying out a review’ and ‘a consultation process’ before introducing his policy. When questioned by Helen Ní Shé on RnaG this morning Mr.Kenny insisted that he would implement his policy irrespective of the outcome of his proposed review. Either Mr. Kenny doesn’t understand the basic premise of consultation or he is trying to con people.



Earlier today, Mr. Kenny claimed on Radio Kerry that young Irish people ‘hate’ the Irish language. This is both untrue and an insult to thousands of young people nationwide.



As with the original basis for his policy, his latest assertions are not based in any research and have no scientific justification. Instead, Enda is relying entirely on anecdotal evidence gathered from talking to school children. One wonders if he asked those same schoolchildren whether they liked Maths, or English, or Geography or, indeed, whether or not they liked school!



In the TG4 debate, it was obvious that Enda was unable to substantiate his position when challenged by Micheál Martin . He said that it was a ‘personal issue’. That much at least appears to be true as nobody with any understanding of the issue agrees with him.



I would spell out a few basic facts for Deputy Kenny. In a recent Ipsos MRBI opinion poll the findings clearly showed that 61% of people supported the retention of the current status of Irish at Leaving Cert level. This figure was 65% for 15-24 year olds with only 26% supporting Mr.Kenny's plan. All research shows that a huge majority of Irish people, upwards of 80%, have a favourable attitude to Irish.



All the scientific evidence and research clearly contradicts Enda Kenny’s broader policy stance. In fact, the evidence and academic advice clearly indicates that the adoption of his policy will lead to the gradual decline of the language. This will undo the great work underway over recent years to promote the language nationwide and protect its status as the primary community language of the Gaeltacht. It is now time for Enda Kenny to grow up and admit he is simply wrong on this issue and to stop insulting people with his illogical arguments and phoney ‘reviews’.

Now you can say many jobs have been lost over the last few months but Ireland is currently employing more than it has ever done!,and we are in a global depression,but we can get out of it.

If you go by the above articles do you believe FG to be the Best option?[/QUOTE]

Sorry, you are attempting to shift goalposts. Otherwise you are conceeding the points that I have made.

I did not seek your clarification on points about neutrality, the irish language, and the agri-food industry. Just to be clear, they would be issues which would be well down my list of priorities. Neutrality is a non-issue as we know on what side our bread is buttered. We are not a neutral country in the same vein as Switzerland. Thus it is a non issue.

The Irish language can be preserved by simply shifting tack. I agree that FG's policy is not innovative. But the maintenance of Irish in its current status will not benefit the language long term either. Its use is declining all around us. Sadly, FG are too populist on the issue, and FF are not innovative enough (in spite of an almost unbroken 25 year stint in Government).

Mr.Micro

skippy5 wrote: »

So you would rather have a cardboard poster as our leader. We will be the laughing stock

Better than the drunk we had, who actually made us the laughing stock all over the world. Kenny is surrounded by competent people/team and if Gilmore is in tow all the better. Biffo and Coughlan:D:D:D:D:D or Martin and Hanifin and Lenny:D:D:D:D

skippy5

Mr.Micro wrote: »

goat2 wrote: »

Oh I doubt that. its not every day that the nation is sold out and our sovereignty given away. So long as the massive debts remains people will not forget.

After a year of Kenny people will be on their knees looking for change and who will that be, oh yes FF!

Liam Byrne

skippy5 wrote: »

After a year of Kenny people will be on their knees looking for change and who will that be, oh yes FF!

FF leaves people face-down horizontal and rides them senseless to protect their cronies....and then that.......

Hmmmm....on their knees sounds like an improvement to me.

skippy5

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Better than the drunk we had. Kenny is surrounded by competent people/team and if Gilmore is in tow all the better. Biffo and Coughlan:D:D:D:D:D or Martin and Hanifin and Lenny:D:D:D:D

Oh yeah like noonan. You are either very young ro have a bad memory!

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The "issue" is you making claims on boards as part of a discussion that are ridiculous, in order to discredit and avoid valid discussion, and then ridiculously claiming the high moral ground that you "deal in facts".

Give me a vaild discussion topic and I will discuss it. I cant make the invite any more stright forward than that. Only rule is that is has to be a factual based discussion.

Liam Byrne

Fitzerb wrote: »

Give me a vaild discussion topic and I will discuss it. I cant make the invite any more stright forward than that. Only rule is that is has to be a factual based discussion.

Fair enough, on condition you retract your non-factual Daily Mail slurs.

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

FF leaves people face-down horizontal and rides them senseless to protect their cronies....and then that.......

Hmmmm....on their knees sounds like an improvement to me.

My point is made................... Sound Bite stuff, Cronies .... Who are the Cronies?

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Fair enough, on condition you retract your non-factual Daily Mail slurs.

No sorry I am not withdrawing my remarks about the Daily Mail.

They print headlines that have no truths to them and some posters see the headline and take it as fact.

I dont think to seek withdrawls from me prior to having a discussion is a very positive way to start. I only ask that it is based on the facts or at least on the facts as you know them

Fitzerb

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Better than the drunk we had, who actually made us the laughing stock all over the world. Kenny is surrounded by competent people/team and if Gilmore is in tow all the better. Biffo and Coughlan:D:D:D:D:D or Martin and Hanifin and Lenny:D:D:D:D

None can judge the competence of FG until they are in power and under pressure. Only then will we know how competnt they are

Liam Byrne

Fitzerb wrote: »

My point is made................... Sound Bite stuff, Cronies .... Who are the Cronies?

What point is that ? The fact that people use convenient colloquialisms because it's too long to type "those who frequented the Galway Tent and donated to FF and got radio station (and possibly other) licences because of FF corruption and got off scot-free from dodgy dealings and got paid with out hard-earned cash because - among other things - they play golf with the FF Taoiseach and shake hands with former FF Taoisigh at Conference Centre openings, etc, etc".

FACT : The above doesn't mean that I read the Daily Mail, because I don't.

I thought colloqualisms were acceptable in FF circles ? You know - ones like where "Lehmans" means "we bolloxed up and won't admit it".

Mr.Micro

Fitzerb wrote: »

None can judge the competence of FG until they are in power and under pressure. Only then will we know how competnt they are

FF have set the bar so low that it will not hard to show competence by a new Government.

skippy5

Fitzerb wrote: »

No sorry I am not withdrawing my remarks about the Daily Mail.

They print headlines that have no truths to them and some posters see the headline and take it as fact.

I dont think to seek withdrawls from me prior to having a discussion is a very positive way to start. I only ask that it is based on the facts or at least on the facts as you know them

These people do not do facts just very very wide brush strokes

Fitzerb

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Fitzerb wrote: »

Its not the impression that comes across. Most of the country do not appear to be in love with FF and have to ground their expectations in reality and FF is not that reality after 14 years, culminating in economic collapse. People cannot afford such a disastrous party any longer. FF partied, we pay :rolleyes:

I dont disagree with the main trust of that statement.
However a lot of people partied and not just FF. Dont foget that FG and Lab were shouting from the roof tops to spend more three years ago.
Having said that FF had their hand on the tiller when the ship sank.

Liam Byrne

Fitzerb wrote: »

No sorry I am not withdrawing my remarks about the Daily Mail.

They print headlines that have no truths to them and some posters see the headline and take it as fact.

I dont think to seek withdrawls from me prior to having a discussion is a very positive way to start. I only ask that it is based on the facts or at least on the facts as you know them

Yes, but there is no point in discussing anything with you if you write all posters off as being Daily Mail readers and try to pretend that there are no valid concerns even if something does seem to equate to something the Daily Mail might write.

Everyone gets something right sometime (see a certain thanks of mine above) so even the Daily Mail might (although I wouldn't know).

Mr.Micro

Fitzerb wrote: »

They print headlines that have no truths to them and some posters see the headline and take it as fact.

Like FF manifesto.:D

goat2

michael martain is now on vb, at least he is man enough to take the chair, god help us we have others who are too wimpish to face vb

Liam Byrne

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Like FF manifesto.:D

And FF soundbites....."we have turned a corner", "cheapest bailout ever", "the IMF are not coming", "it's my home principal place of residence", "I won it on da horses", etc, etc, etc.

skippy5

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Like FF manifesto.:D

A bit like the contract for a better Ireland. Remember that one!!:D:D:D

Mr.Micro

skippy5 wrote: »

A bit like the contract for a better Ireland. Remember that one!!:D:D:D

Not under FF that is for sure

skippy5

Fitzerb wrote: »

Well Liam heres one to really melt your head and get you going.
You rant about FF and the Galway Tent and Developers and Cronies and corrupt money. Then you rant about FF who blew away the Celtic Tiger bonanza of money and its now costing us in our pockets.
We all accept that the Celtic Tiger was a fools gold gained from the building trade and from over expansion of house development by developers. The house development was from the developers who were in the Galway Tent corrupting FF. So the money from the Celtic Tiger was corrupt money in the first place and we should never have had it (according to your morals). No the corrupt money from the corrupt developers who were cronies of the corrupt FF is gone you are still not happy.
Have a chew on that for a while and work it out LOL

Could take him a while, he will probably have to wait for tomorrows copy of the daily mail to what their line of tought is

Liam Byrne

Fitzerb wrote: »

So the money from the Celtic Tiger was corrupt money in the first place and we should never have had it (according to your morals). No the corrupt money from the corrupt developers who were cronies of the corrupt FF is gone you are still not happy.
Have a chew on that for a while and work it out LOL

Ridiculous.

If the money was only "gone" then I would indeed be happy.

However not only is the money "gone" but they are coming after us to pay MORE, WITH INTEREST. THAT is my objection and THAT is why I am "still not happy".

If the idiots that gambled lost theirs, then tough. But they want mine to pay their back.

Not only that, but the most ridiculous part of your statement is the implication that "money" can be corrupt in itself.

I'm seriously considering giving up on Politics on boards because it's getting absolutely ridiculous at this stage.

gk5000

Brenireland wrote: »

Well if you follow politics you'd probably realise FF are not at totally at fault for the near collapse of the irish economy,It is the fault of those who got carried away with themselves during the boom by purchasing a 2nd car or 2nd Home,and were unable to pay back their loans!!!

Obviously mismanagement in the banking system played a large part but now that they are nationalised & that our Banks are in safe hands.

FF have a plan & a plan which will keep our ship steady!

If people study each party's policies they will realise this,Or at least they should.

Who was in charge? Who was paid to GOVERN?
Who was paid to regulate the bankers? Who is responsible/accountable?
What is the point of electing a Government ih we don't hold FF responsible?

Fitzerb

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Like FF manifesto.:D

Please quote from the manifesto to prove your point , or lets all accept it as part of your normal waffle

goat2

gk5000 wrote: »

Who was in charge? Who was paid to GOVERN?
Who was paid to regulate the bankers? Who is responsible/accountable?
What is the point of electing a Government ih we don't hold FF responsible?

i agree they were responsible,but bankers handed out huge loans, it all boils down to the people who were running our financial institutions running us into the ground, they have to be held responsible for their mistakes, jail would be too good for them, speculators without a cent, borrowing to buy land, and building substandard houses in some cases, selling them on at exuberant prices, it all had to end sometime, but the sad part of this is, that the decent hardworking person who have to suffer, it is so wrong, i do hope and i have yet to see something done with the bankers and speculators

Fitzerb

Mr.Micro wrote: »

FF have set the bar so low that it will not hard to show competence by a new Government.

Well if that the extent of your hopes then I suggest you have a suitcase packed to leave.

Liam Byrne

Fitzerb wrote: »

I agree but likewise there is no point in posters saying that anyone who votes FF is corrupt or supports corruption........

They're implicitly condoning it.

I notice the thanks on other posts and it says a lot about you.

It probably does, but what that is exactly is open to interpretation, so I won't fall for a second attempt to "get me going".

I will, however remind you that the charter forbids personal slights and admit that I've had quite enough of the biased slurs that are throughout your posts and welcome you to the ignore list while referring the above to the mods.

I'd like to say it's been fun, but I'm not a liar, so I can't.

Fitzerb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

They're implicitly condoning it.



It probably does, but what that is exactly is open to interpretation, so I won't fall for a second attempt to "get me going".


I will, however remind you that the charter forbids personal slights and admit that I've had quite enough of the biased slurs that are throughout your posts and welcome you to the ignore list while referring the above to the mods.

I'd like to say it's been fun, but I'm not a liar, so I can't.

The post that says " a lot about you" was meant to be a compliment. In that you are big enough to recognise other views…… I didn’t put it too well.
The bit about the corrupt money and the tent was a bit of fun which should be noticeable from my opening line and my closing line.

Black Swan

REMINDER...
A few of the above posts have gotten a bit too personal. In the future, focus on the content of posts, and not each other.
Thanks,
Black Swan

wee truck big driver

Fitzerb wrote: »

Firemen risk their life for their country, so do Garda, and so did Jerry McCabe. But Gerry Admas’s mates didn’t value his worth to this Country. “Gerry risked his life for his country”, you mean he risked other people lives for this Country like the hunger strikers. We didn’t see wee Gerry going without food.
Anyways more to the point you might be the first SF supported to answer a question for me.
Wee Gerry and his band of followers say they are going to do away with the USC (Social Charge)
They are going to reverse the social welfare cuts. They are going to reverse the educations cuts. They are even going to reverse the health cuts.
Can you please explain to me why is that when in Government as they are in Northern Ireland that they are imposing cuts of 2.5 Billion on Social Welfare, Education, and Health
Has wee Gerry a twin running for election in the republic?

so firemen and gardai or brave men and women who join to help ireland knowing that doing sothey could well die or do they do so knowing they will have an easy number with a good salary lots of benifits and a good pension. what percentage of gardai die at work say in comparison to farmers, truck drivers, construction workers. thats what i thought so the gardai and firemen is a relatively safe job and if you do get killed sure you will be a hero even if the only thing you can be remembered for is being over entusiastic in the interogation room

oppenheimer1

jmayo wrote: »

Yes and the Fire Brigade are recruiting ex arsonists. :rolleyes:
I suppose as an ffer you would be good at spotting auction politics so I bow to your superious knowledge in spotting it.

Always love how the ones urging us to look forward are the very ones most to blame for the mess we now face. :rolleyes:

What is the point of living in the past, its not going to change anything.

No matter what party enters government they are going to have to deal with the future and accept the realities of what went before. Making unkeepable promises and an election platform that is little more than "at least we're not FF" is a characteristic of the party thats best suited for government? And add to that a party who has a leader that is too much of a wimp to talk to the country in an unscripted debate. I say this a a person who lost his old job directly due to a FF ministerial decision.

I'm of the belief the new government will be change for changes sake and not change we can believe in.

Xcellor

I have never voted in a general election before (10 years) but intend to vote this time.

It seems there are many good weather supporters who were happy to support FF when times were good but now they are bailing. Yes Fianna Fail share a big responsibility for the state the country is in but who elected them (several times I believe)?

Do I believe Labour or Fine Gael would have done a better job? No.

I don't see any credible alternatives. Now I have finally decided to vote I don't really know who deserves it.

jmayo

gk5000 wrote: »

Who was in charge? Who was paid to GOVERN?
Who was paid to regulate the bankers? ...

You should clairfy that by stating they were some of the highest paid government ministers and prime ministers in the world.
They weren't just paid, they paid extravaganlty.

goat2 wrote: »

i agree they were responsible,but bankers handed out huge loans, it all boils down to the people who were running our financial institutions running us into the ground, they have to be held responsible for their mistakes, jail would be too good for them, speculators without a cent, borrowing to buy land, and building substandard houses in some cases, selling them on at exuberant prices, it all had to end sometime, but the sad part of this is, that the decent hardworking person who have to suffer, it is so wrong, i do hope and i have yet to see something done with the bankers and speculators

Ehhh and who were these developers, but mostly friends of ff ?
Who put some of the most prominent wreckless these bankers on state quangoes, that then entered into development deals with large ff supporting developers funded by the same bankers.

If you want to see what ff did to further the crazyness then look no further than what happened in DDDA, where directors of Anglo were placed on the board by ff government, and then the DDDA entered into developing along with a now failed developer who is a prominent ff supporter, ex election candidate.
That little mess has left us with toxic site purchased for 400 odd million, now worth 60 million.

Who allowed these developers build substandard developments ?
Who ran the Department of Environment which could set legislation that forced developers to build amenities and to stricter standards ?

Who ran the Dept of Finance which oversees CB and IFSRA which could have monitored the banks lending practices ?

Who ran the Dept of Finance which oversees and sets tax policy which could have removed section 23 grants and thus avoid the now glut of unwanted developments that blight places like Leitrim ?

So less of the cr** that is all down to somebody else.
Ultimately the bucks stops at them.
They failed misreably to run the country properly.

Fitzerb wrote: »

Well if that the extent of your hopes then I suggest you have a suitcase packed to leave.

That would be typical ff solution, emigrate. :rolleyes:

wee truck big driver wrote: »

so firemen and gardai or brave men and women who join to help ireland knowing that doing sothey could well die or do they do so knowing they will have an easy number with a good salary lots of benifits and a good pension. what percentage of gardai die at work say in comparison to farmers, truck drivers, construction workers. thats what i thought so the gardai and firemen is a relatively safe job and if you do get killed sure you will be a hero even if the only thing you can be remembered for is being over entusiastic in the interogation room

I know one family whose son went to work one night as a Garda only to be killed by a scumbag car theif, who it turns out has a list of previous crimes as long as your arm.
Yet this fine country finds him not guilty of murder, manslaughter or much else.
That is how that garda was repaid for losing his life.
So less of the sh**e about how they don't deserve to be remembered.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

What is the point of living in the past, its not going to change anything.

It is little thing called JUSTICE.

Do you subscribe to rewarding theives and vandals?

Unless we get justice then why should any of us bother our ar**es paying taxes, repaying loans, obeying the law ?

If people like johnny ronan or the kellys can dump upto 1 billion on the taxpayers with no recourse to their assets, then why should we not do the same ?

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

No matter what party enters government they are going to have to deal with the future and accept the realities of what went before. Making unkeepable promises and an election platform that is little more than "at least we're not FF" is a characteristic of the party thats best suited for government? And add to that a party who has a leader that is too much of a wimp to talk to the country in an unscripted debate. I say this a a person who lost his old job directly due to a FF ministerial decision.

Thus I see you would be happy if the local fire brigade were made up of ex arsonists.


If you hire someone to do a job for you and they royally screw up costing you dearly, do you rehire them or kick their ar**es out and hire someone else ?


Please answer that ?

BTW if you answer that like your proposal for government I am willing to do any work you need done from now, no matter if it is medical, engineering, building, hairdressing ?

I am only qualified in electronics/computers, but since you reward failure I want your custom.

Funny how you complain that FG have no policies and then laud the guy who now talks of reform.
The same guy who was in power for the last 14 years.
Funny I never once heard him talk of reform during that time. :rolleyes:

Lets call a spade a spade, you are dyed in the wool ff and will vote for them no matter what.

katana1

I have never and never will vote for FF.(A FG candidate is my neighbour and has always done right in our community).That said a lot of people I know who were FF supporters and are saying that they will not vote for them this time.
I have asked a few of these people that on election day when they are about to cast their vote ,is there a chance that they will go with their old loyalties to FF and vote for them.To my surprise they said when I put it that way and when they think about it --they are unsure.
I have looked at all the polls and I hope I am wrong but I would say that FF will do better than most of us expect.
As I said hopefully I am wrong.

manic mailman

100% agree with the OP. It's almost as if people are already starting to forget! - and that really distresses me! Spread this thread far and wide people!

CDfm

I think a lot of policies came out of the unelected Social Partnership.

Bertie the deal maker held together things by sheet chuzpah

I can't help thinking when you looked at how decisions were made and who benefited the election isn't a little like this.

Maybe the election is about what cuts will you tolerate and what long term debt will be passed down to future generations.

Laminations

manic mailman wrote: »

100% agree with the OP. It's almost as if people are already starting to forget! - and that really distresses me! Spread this thread far and wide people!

It distresses me too, so I started this thread which has a link to everything wrong about FF as people need their memories refreshed. Someone who votes FF is happy to stand over that record

cursai

Em......................Maybe they've changed?

Liam Byrne

cursai wrote: »

Em......................Maybe they've changed?

If so, explain why one of Martin's first acts was to reinstate Willie O' Dea ?

wicorthered

A vote for Fianna Fail is a vote against your country. They have ruined a once proud nation.

dublin99

Laminations wrote: »

My god, how did you respond? And how did she respond where she realised she was a total twit?

Fitzerb wrote: »

Where is the racism in what she said...... You are trying to make a racist issue out of nothing. She asked do you have a vote. not what was the colour of your skin. If she asked a 17 year old the same question does that make it ageism. An outrageous post

Tragedy wrote: »

I was asked if I was registered to vote. I'm mid 20's and white.

Also, you assumed the poster was black, the poster just said non-white :rolleyes:

Laminations wrote: »

Hmmm I think tone was well described in the post



You wouldn't say that that is patronising? How would you interpret it?

Fitzerb wrote: »

We dont know what the tone was. Again lets twist the facts to make a story. Jesus if we could sell perception we would have no crisis.

I refer to my earlier post #143 on page 10.

Gentlemen, let me try to describe a bit more clearly what actually happened. A short YouTube clip (like MM's Chinese accent impersonation) would probably do a better job.

When I answered the door, the female canvasser looked at me and spoke to me, as if one may be speaking to an elderly person with hearing impediment or someone who may not have a very good understanding of the English language, spitting out the words syllable by syllable, in a raised tone : “You don't have a vote!” . It was a statement she made, not a question.

I was very taken back and asked why she said that. Without bothering to answer my question, she proceeded to repeatedly ask, twice in fact, again in a raised voice, and an aggressive manner “Do you have a vote ?”

Her aggressive manner aside, this canvasser made two assumptions in relation to 1. my right to vote and 2. my ability to understand English. Both of these incorrect assumptions were made solely because of my appearance: the fact that I was of a different race and skin colour. I am in my 40s (even botox can’t make me look under 18!) I do not need a hearing aid and I am fluent in English.

I hope I do not need to expand on the definition of racism or discrimination. In Ireland equality legislation states that discrimination under any of 9 grounds is illegal. Race is one of them. Fitzerb, you may also find the new Equality Act which came into effect in October 2010 in the UK of particular interest.

Incidentally, the Immigrant Council of Ireland launched a campaign yesterday called “Count Us In” us to remind candidates that there are a large number of migrants who are entitled to vote, following numerous complaints similar to mine. It is available on the the ICI website and reported in the Irish Times.

Some people might think that the behaviour of this canvasser is understandable and perhaps even typical and her reaction to a “foreigner” is normal. It is exactly this type of attitude, sadly but deeply ingrained in the Irish thinking, which is the fundamental problem of subliminal everyday racism that is widespread in Irish society and cause distress and tension – people are so ignorant that they do not realise that they are being racist! What they are doing is treating somebody of a different race in a manner that is discriminatory and deeply offensive. It cannot be shrugged off as just being ignorant or stupid or as a “schoolboy error” as one FF politician put it.

As to how I reacted, Laminations : I was so shocked I was lost for words. I just told the canvasser I had a vote but I was not voting FF and she left. The same evening I complained to the TD /Minister by e-mail. A few hours later I got a short reply back from an assistant, apologising etc…please feel free to contact my constituency office etc. It is obvious that the matter had not been looked into and had not been taken seriously. Having received no response from follow up e-mails, I confronted the TD/Minister at the end of a public meeting. When asked if she was aware of a racist incident that involved one of her canvassers, she dismissively said “oh it was not a racist incident…. just someone said something to somebody who did not have a vote”

Although she apologised again, it was meaningless as she refused to acknowledge what happened, refused to offer any explanation, and obviously was not going to take any action to educate her canvassers or to prevent similar incidents from happening again.

Education is the key to combat racism and to promote Integration in a Multicultural Society. Sadly, this TD was formerly Minister for Education and currently Minister for Tourism, Culture etc….

I despair.

oppenheimer1

jmayo wrote: »

You should clairfy that by stating they were some of the highest paid government ministers and prime ministers in the world.
They weren't just paid, they paid extravaganlty.



Ehhh and who were these developers, but mostly friends of ff ?
Who put some of the most prominent wreckless these bankers on state quangoes, that then entered into development deals with large ff supporting developers funded by the same bankers.

If you want to see what ff did to further the crazyness then look no further than what happened in DDDA, where directors of Anglo were placed on the board by ff government, and then the DDDA entered into developing along with a now failed developer who is a prominent ff supporter, ex election candidate.
That little mess has left us with toxic site purchased for 400 odd million, now worth 60 million.

Who allowed these developers build substandard developments ?
Who ran the Department of Environment which could set legislation that forced developers to build amenities and to stricter standards ?

Who ran the Dept of Finance which oversees CB and IFSRA which could have monitored the banks lending practices ?

Who ran the Dept of Finance which oversees and sets tax policy which could have removed section 23 grants and thus avoid the now glut of unwanted developments that blight places like Leitrim ?

So less of the cr** that is all down to somebody else.
Ultimately the bucks stops at them.
They failed misreably to run the country properly.



That would be typical ff solution, emigrate. :rolleyes:



I know one family whose son went to work one night as a Garda only to be killed by a scumbag car theif, who it turns out has a list of previous crimes as long as your arm.
Yet this fine country finds him not guilty of murder, manslaughter or much else.
That is how that garda was repaid for losing his life.
So less of the sh**e about how they don't deserve to be remembered.



It is little thing called JUSTICE.

Do you subscribe to rewarding theives and vandals?

Unless we get justice then why should any of us bother our ar**es paying taxes, repaying loans, obeying the law ?

If people like johnny ronan or the kellys can dump upto 1 billion on the taxpayers with no recourse to their assets, then why should we not do the same ?



Thus I see you would be happy if the local fire brigade were made up of ex arsonists.


If you hire someone to do a job for you and they royally screw up costing you dearly, do you rehire them or kick their ar**es out and hire someone else ?


Please answer that ?

BTW if you answer that like your proposal for government I am willing to do any work you need done from now, no matter if it is medical, engineering, building, hairdressing ?

I am only qualified in electronics/computers, but since you reward failure I want your custom.

Funny how you complain that FG have no policies and then laud the guy who now talks of reform.
The same guy who was in power for the last 14 years.
Funny I never once heard him talk of reform during that time. :rolleyes:

Lets call a spade a spade, you are dyed in the wool ff and will vote for them no matter what.

Arson is intentional. What happened to the economy was not intentional. FF have not promised anything which is the right approach - if FG cvould have done the same it would have been at least believable.

You continually try and paint me as a FF through and through, yet I've stated on a number of occasions I intend to vote FG. This is because I believe the country is in need of change and fresh ideas. However I don't believe in the majority of the change they promise, and indeed voting for them may cost me my job - again, as an area they have earmarked for major cutting and consolidation is the one where I work.

I believe in the future not the past. FG are not our knights in shining armour.

Do you really believe the promises on jobs and growth that they are making??

oppenheimer1

dublin99 wrote: »

I refer to my earlier post #143 on page 10.

Gentlemen, let me try to describe a bit more clearly what actually happened. A short YouTube clip (like MM's Chinese accent impersonation) would probably do a better job.

When I answered the door, the female canvasser looked at me and spoke to me, as if one may be speaking to an elderly person with hearing impediment or someone who may not have a very good understanding of the English language, spitting out the words syllable by syllable, in a raised tone : “You don't have a vote!” . It was a statement she made, not a question.

I was very taken back and asked why she said that. Without bothering to answer my question, she proceeded to repeatedly ask, twice in fact, again in a raised voice, and an aggressive manner “Do you have a vote ?”

Her aggressive manner aside, this canvasser made two assumptions in relation to 1. my right to vote and 2. my ability to understand English. Both of these incorrect assumptions were made solely because of my appearance: the fact that I was of a different race and skin colour. I am in my 40s (even botox can’t make me look under 18!) I do not need a hearing aid and I am fluent in English.

I hope I do not need to expand on the definition of racism or discrimination. In Ireland equality legislation states that discrimination under any of 9 grounds is illegal. Race is one of them. Fitzerb, you may also find the new Equality Act which came into effect in October 2010 in the UK of particular interest.

Incidentally, the Immigrant Council of Ireland launched a campaign yesterday called “Count Us In” us to remind candidates that there are a large number of migrants who are entitled to vote, following numerous complaints similar to mine. It is available on the the ICI website and reported in the Irish Times.

Some people might think that the behaviour of this canvasser is understandable and perhaps even typical and her reaction to a “foreigner” is normal. It is exactly this type of attitude, sadly but deeply ingrained in the Irish thinking, which is the fundamental problem of subliminal everyday racism that is widespread in Irish society and cause distress and tension – people are so ignorant that they do not realise that they are being racist! What they are doing is treating somebody of a different race in a manner that is discriminatory and deeply offensive. It cannot be shrugged off as just being ignorant or stupid or as a “schoolboy error” as one FF politician put it.

As to how I reacted, Laminations : I was so shocked I was lost for words. I just told the canvasser I had a vote but I was not voting FF and she left. The same evening I complained to the TD /Minister by e-mail. A few hours later I got a short reply back from an assistant, apologising etc…please feel free to contact my constituency office etc. It is obvious that the matter had not been looked into and had not been taken seriously. Having received no response from follow up e-mails, I confronted the TD/Minister at the end of a public meeting. When asked if she was aware of a racist incident that involved one of her canvassers, she dismissively said “oh it was not a racist incident…. just someone said something to somebody who did not have a vote”

Although she apologised again, it was meaningless as she refused to acknowledge what happened, refused to offer any explanation, and obviously was not going to take any action to educate her canvassers or to prevent similar incidents from happening again.

Education is the key to combat racism and to promote Integration in a Multicultural Society. Sadly, this TD was formerly Minister for Education and currently Minister for Tourism, Culture etc….

I despair.

That isn't racist to be fair. It was presumptuous behaviour, but not racism. You get offended too easily.

CDfm

jmayo wrote: »

You should clairfy that by stating they were some of the highest paid government ministers and prime ministers in the world.
They weren't just paid, they paid extravaganlty.

But arent our Trade Union leaders also highly paid and part of the same culture

Trade Union leader pay
Seven of 16 trade union leaders would not disclose their income levels following requests from The Irish Times.
The employers' union IBEC also refused to disclose the pay of its director general Danny McCoy.
Victorian era secrecy in Ireland generally benefits insiders not the public interest.
The Irish Times survey published today determined the pay and benefits of the bank trade union IBOA's general secretary, Larry Broderick, from a UK disclosure.
His pay last year was €133,518 plus pension contributions of €46,731, a car, bonus and VHI benefits that totalled a further €19,957. His total package was €200,206.
John Carr of the INTO has a salary of €172,000 while Peter McLoone of Impact has a salary of €171,313. McLoone’s salary is the equivalent of that of the Cork County Manager.
The general secretary of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, David Begg, has a salary of €137,400. He earns an additional €27,700 from his work as a director of the Central Bank and as a Governor of the Irish Times Trust.
With the add-ons, total benefits would top €200,000 easily.



http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1018283.shtml

and

becomes increasingly likely, the Irish Times has this morning published the salaries of a number of trade union leaders. The paper reveals that the head of teachers union the INTO, John Carr, who oversees the INTO’ 35,000 members, has the highest salary of those surveyed at €172,000, with the earnings of Peter McLoone of Impact, a union with 65,000 members, just behind him with a salary of €171,313.
Meanwhile, the General Secretary of the Association of Secondary Teachers in Ireland, John White, has a salary of €144,000, while the general secretary of the Teachers’ Union of Ireland, Peter MacMenamin, earns a salary of between €131,748 and €150,712.
Siptu President Jack O’Connor earned a salary of €124,895 in 2008. The trade union has about 215,000 members.
Blair Horan, the general secretary of the Civil and Public Services Union, which has 14,000 members, said he had a salary of “about €120,000”.
The paper says that seven of the 16 unions it contacted refused to reveal the pay levels of their bosses. These were the Communications Workers’ Union (Steve Fitzpatrick); Mandate (John Douglas); the Irish Bank Officials’ Association (Larry Broderick); the TEEU (Owen Wills); the Irish Nurses’ Organisation (Liam Doran); the Public Service Executive Union (Tom Geraghty); and the Association of Higher Civil and Public Servants (Dave Thomas)

http://www.businessandleadership.com/leadership/item/16895-paper-publishes-salary-leve

wee truck big driver

wicorthered wrote: »

A vote for Fianna Fail is a vote against your country. They have ruined a once proud nation.

what was it you where most proud of ? i can happily say iam as proud to be irish now as i have ever been

dublin99

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

That isn't racist to be fair. It was presumptuous behaviour, but not racism. You get offended too easily.

It is people like you that I was referring to when I said:

"It is exactly this type of attitude, sadly but deeply ingrained in the Irish thinking, which is the fundamental problem of subliminal everyday racism that is widespread in Irish society and cause distress and tension – people are so ignorant that they do not realise that they are being racist! "

Ignorance may lead some to think that racism is limited to racial violence or harrassment using derogotary language associating with ones skin colour etc. There are many forms of racial disrcrimination : direct, indirect, victimisation and harassment. I dont want to discriminate or "presume" that you have little knowledge of what Equality means and the relevant legislation regarding discrimination, but a good place to start may be the website of the Equality and Human Rights Commmision?

oppenheimer1, you are right. It was presumptious of the canvasser - and her presumptions were wrong and her behaviour, though not intentional, was extremely offensive. This offensive behaviour arose because I am of a different race/colour. It is most certainly a textbook example of a racist incident which should not have happened.

Did you watch the Kings Speech? Imagine you are having a conversation with someone who has a bad stutter and presume that he may understand you better if you try to stutter as well. Do you think he will be offended?

Micheal Martin had to apologise for his impersonation of a chinese accent. The Irish may think it's funny, but the Chinese most certainly didn't.
Perhaps next time, ignorant people like you will think twice before mimicking a foreigners accent and thinking it's funny!