1,500 apply for 30 Argos jobs

prinz

cson wrote: »

Why then quote my post and respond to it like I had said 20k isn't enough for a school leaver? Again, have another read of it.

Eh, because you quoted my reply to seamus' point re the €20k not being good enough to attract school leavers and told me I was the one with the terrible attitude?

seamus

I love how things blow up out of all proportion. I didn't actually say €20k was a bad deal. In fact, straight out of school it's a good deal. But I get the impression that few 18-year-olds are going to look into being an office admin straight out of school and anyone with experience isn't going to move into a €20k job when they're probably being paid more than that at present.

Even those unemployed might be pulling more than €20k at present with Standard Dole, JSA, Mortgage supplement, rent allowance, children's allowance, etc, etc. Or at the very least, taking a low-paying job might put them at a disadvantage because they will lose benefits. So leaving cert only or not, if someone is taking in more than €20k at present, they're not going to apply for a €20k a year job.

We don't have the job spec referred to, and despite the "only qualification is the leaving cert" mentioned, there has to be another reason why people aren't apply for the job. If we say that Argos pay minimum wage, and this company pay "a little more cash", then we'll say that's €18k. Any further stipulations in that job spec such as, "Must have experience working in an office environment" or "Must be proficient with Microsoft Office", and you've already lost. If it was as simple as, "We'll take anyone who has two brain cells in their head", then surely a member of staff knows somebody looking for a job and/or you'd have people queuing up for it.

My point on employers taking the piss is that there is this, "You should be lucky anyone even thinks of employing you" attitude out there where people are expected to work 10 hours a day and come in at weekends on demand without extra pay and you can piss off if you don't like it. So if people are reading between the lines and seeing, "€20k job, but I'm going to ridden up the arse for it", then I don't blame them for turning up their noses at it.

One thing to remember about this whole recession is that despite the media hysteria, people generally aren't as poorly off as the media like to tell you they are. We have massive amounts of money in savings, and most reports indicate that people have cut their own personal spending back by twice as much as they've lost in wage cuts and income taxes, effectively meaning they have more money now than ever. People are still turning their noses up at jobs because they can afford to.

HarryPotter41

Sc@recrow wrote: »

If you were unemployed and getting €400 a week for the missus+kids would you still jump at it?
Few mates of mine are whinging about no work but they refuse to settle for anything less than 30k which is a bit nuts when they don't have any qualifications.. they're getting about 18-20k on the dole so where's the incentive to get off their asses?
I've tried telling them that they need to make a start, and move their way up the ladder but Irish people seem to think they're entitled to everything for free :rolleyes:

Oh I dunno, self respect? the opportunity to get working and get out there and try and get a job from a job which is easier, the longer you are unemployed the less likely an employer will employ you. And I take home €485 and am damn glad to have the job.

Timothy Bryce

seamus wrote: »

I love how things blow up out of all proportion. I didn't actually say €20k was a bad deal. In fact, straight out of school it's a good deal. But I get the impression that few 18-year-olds are going to look into being an office admin straight out of school and anyone with experience isn't going to move into a €20k job when they're probably being paid more than that at present.

Even those unemployed might be pulling more than €20k at present with Standard Dole, JSA, Mortgage supplement, rent allowance, children's allowance, etc, etc. Or at the very least, taking a low-paying job might put them at a disadvantage because they will lose benefits. So leaving cert only or not, if someone is taking in more than €20k at present, they're not going to apply for a €20k a year job.

We don't have the job spec referred to, and despite the "only qualification is the leaving cert" mentioned, there has to be another reason why people aren't apply for the job. If we say that Argos pay minimum wage, and this company pay "a little more cash", then we'll say that's €18k. Any further stipulations in that job spec such as, "Must have experience working in an office environment" or "Must be proficient with Microsoft Office", and you've already lost. If it was as simple as, "We'll take anyone who has two brain cells in their head", then surely a member of staff knows somebody looking for a job and/or you'd have people queuing up for it.

My point on employers taking the piss is that there is this, "You should be lucky anyone even thinks of employing you" attitude out there where people are expected to work 10 hours a day and come in at weekends on demand without extra pay and you can piss off if you don't like it. So if people are reading between the lines and seeing, "€20k job, but I'm going to ridden up the arse for it", then I don't blame them for turning up their noses at it.

One thing to remember about this whole recession is that despite the media hysteria, people generally aren't as poorly off as the media like to tell you they are. We have massive amounts of money in savings, and most reports indicate that people have cut their own personal spending back by twice as much as they've lost in wage cuts and income taxes, effectively meaning they have more money now than ever. People are still turning their noses up at jobs because they can afford to.

Does it have to be all about money/a bit of overtime/weekends? I know some people who are qualified solicitors working for free to get their foot in the door. Not everyone's bag i know but they're trying to make something happen for them, as well as having a purpose and a reason for getting out of bed every morning. Some people put a price on that, some don't - and not everyone's the same.

Dudess

Sc@recrow wrote: »

Irish people seem to think they're entitled to everything for free :rolleyes:

Don't be silly.

Chardee MacDennis

yet my company has been trying to hire a developer for a month and only got about 5 cv's of which only 3 were based in ireland - we had to go to a recruitment company in the end...

this country is ridiculously under skilled.

amy21

We have being looking for people for the last few months, being a very slow uptake, sometimes i think these stories are only publicity stunts from big retailers

ixoy

BastardPrince wrote: »

yet my company has been trying to hire a developer for a month and only got about 5 cv's of which only 3 were based in ireland - we had to go to a recruitment company in the end...

this country is ridiculously under skilled.

Are you being very particular in what you were looking for though? For a start, most people aren't qualified in IT. Even those who are, might not be in the language you want and - even then - might not have the years you're looking for.
However, there may be (and probably is) many people unemployed with entirely different skill sets. Doesn't mean they're all under skilled.

Chardee MacDennis

amy21 wrote: »

We have being looking for people for the last few months, being a very slow uptake, sometimes i think these stories are only publicity stunts from big retailers

they are, the celtic tiger mentality still exists. from what i know of people on the dole there does seem to be three categories

1. Scrounger happy to do f*ck all
2. People who feel they have to get a job either in their field or at the same money they used to make
3. People who are genuinely looking for work

i think 1 and 2 make up most of the people on the dole. would you not just take a job to pay the bills and have a bit of self respect?

prinz

seamus wrote: »

My point on employers taking the piss is that there is this, "You should be lucky anyone even thinks of employing you" attitude out there where people are expected to work 10 hours a day and come in at weekends on demand without extra pay and you can piss off if you don't like it. So if people are reading between the lines and seeing, "€20k job, but I'm going to ridden up the arse for it", then I don't blame them for turning up their noses at it..

Maybe some employers take the piss with this, but generally it's included in the contract for any job that involves an agreed salary rather than pay by the hour, just in case. Obviously if someone is totally exploiting staff to routinely work longer hours that's an issue but in a job offer it's not really, it's just the employer covering their bases because yes, sometimes in jobs where you get an annual salary some overtime/weekend needs to be done.

Chardee MacDennis

ixoy wrote: »

Are you being very particular in what you were looking for though? For a start, most people aren't qualified in IT. Even those who are, might not be in the language you want and - even then - might not have the years you're looking for.
However, there may be (and probably is) many people unemployed with entirely different skill sets. Doesn't mean they're all under skilled.

not very specific, PHP/MySQL dev with a lot of skills that would be a plus listed. it would take you 6 months to go from IT newbie to very employable and you would walk into a junior position but people wont learn new stuff - i know lots who are like "oh no i'm an architect and there are no architect jobs" - well f*ck off somewhere where they need architects or do something else....

seamus

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

Does it have to be all about money/a bit of overtime/weekends? I know some people who are qualified solicitors working for free to get their foot in the door.

It depends on what you can afford. Newly qualified solicitors may be able to work for free for a few months. Someone with a mortgage and 3 kids may not.

yet my company has been trying to hire a developer for a month and only got about 5 cv's of which only 3 were based in ireland - we had to go to a recruitment company in the end...

this country is ridiculously under skilled.

"Under skilled" is a subjective term. There was a similar thread recently enough where a guy said his company was looking for a developer without success for nine months. They wanted someone with Lotusscript experience. The obvious thing being that anyone with programming experience could become an expert Lotusscript programmer in nine months and proficient in a third of that time, so they were shooting themselves in the foot by being too rigid on their requirements.

Dudess

Going by my own personal experience/observations anyway, the vast majority of people over the past two years or so are happy with any job and would much prefer it to being on the dole. Cases of people thinking e.g. a retail job is beneath them because they've a masters amount to... one.

Dudess

ixoy wrote: »

Are you being very particular in what you were looking for though?

Yeah, very few candidates, or very few of the right candidates?

ixoy

BastardPrince wrote: »

not very specific, PHP/MySQL dev with a lot of skills that would be a plus listed. it would take you 6 months to go from IT newbie to very employable and you would walk into a junior position but people wont learn new stuff

Would you accept people with no skills but willing to learn? If not, then how would people acquire the skills - most employers wouldn't be satisfied with "I got an O'Reilly book and taught myself". It seems it could be difficult to switch into this field unless you've experience in which case you don't need a job in the first place.
I mean I don't know MySQL or PHP could I join based on knowing some UNIX shell scripting and a different DBMS? Genuinely curious as to how open such job offerings are to people without exact skillsets.

Timothy Bryce

BastardPrince wrote: »

they are, the celtic tiger mentality still exists. from what i know of people on the dole there does seem to be three categories

1. Scrounger happy to do f*ck all
2. People who feel they have to get a job either in their field or at the same money they used to make
3. People who are genuinely looking for work

i think 1 and 2 make up most of the people on the dole. would you not just take a job to pay the bills and have a bit of self respect?

Completely agree with this. I've had a truck load of PM's about the job that's being advertised in my dept.....it's not exactly hard to find if people are willing to look! If people genuinely wanted to work in this kind of job, they'd have found it an applied for it already.

I have a friend who won't apply for anything under 50k exactly in his field because he 'wants to like what he's doing'. He's been on the dole going on a year now. :rolleyes:

Chardee MacDennis

ixoy wrote: »

Would you accept people with no skills but willing to learn? If not, then how would people acquire the skills - most employers wouldn't be satisfied with "I got an O'Reilly book and taught myself". It seems it could be difficult to switch into this field unless you've experience in which case you don't need a job in the first place.
I mean I don't know MySQL or PHP could I join based on knowing some UNIX shell scripting and a different DBMS? Genuinely curious as to how open such job offerings are to people without exact skillsets.

well for example we're talking people in through FAS for a couple of weeks at a time on internships. I taught myself (admittedly I have an IT degree but was never taught web dev) and worked for myself for 2 years and then got a job, but you could easily put yourself forward to a company and say listen i've been doing this by myself for 6 months, here are some projects i worked on and I'd be willing to come in at a very junior level or an an internship. Its achievable if you want to do it, but i dont think the drive is there.

LighterGuy

BastardPrince wrote: »

they are, the celtic tiger mentality still exists. from what i know of people on the dole there does seem to be three categories

1. Scrounger happy to do f*ck all
2. People who feel they have to get a job either in their field or at the same money they used to make
3. People who are genuinely looking for work ...

i think 1 and 2 make up most of the people on the dole. would you not just take a job to pay the bills and have a bit of self respect?

Totally agree with the 3 categories.

Timothy Bryce wrote: »

....I have a friend who won't apply for anything under 50k exactly in his field because he 'wants to like what he's doing'. He's been on the dole going on a year now.

I think this is because he is not in a dog rough position. If people in his position only had 50 euro in their pocket and no social welfare they'd take any job. Even if it was cleaning toilets.

But this mentality carries over to alot of people and not only to previous salary. A guy who worked answering phones in an office would think twice about working in mcdonalds .... pssh.
The only acceptable reason for not taking a job is if you get 200 on the social. but job is only offering 100 euro part time. That is stupid to accept that position.