Transfer record for English player to foreign club.

kippy

Hi all,
With all the recent furore of the Carroll (and indeed other) deal, I asked myself a question.
There is obviously this "English" premium that clubs seem to pay but I wonder how much this premium is.
What is the transfer record for an English player to a foreign club and why dont foreign clubs spend more time and money on all these "top top" english players.....
Is it a combination of these English players not being as good as the English press/sky/the transfer fees they cost would have us believe or is it purely because these English players dont really want to move abroad?
Kippy

Melion

Cant think of too many who went for big fees. I think Jay Bothroyd was the last english player to go abroad a few years back and i think that was on a free

DH2K9

kippy wrote: »

Hi all,
With all the recent furore of the Carroll (and indeed other) deal, I asked myself a question.
There is obviously this "English" premium that clubs seem to pay but I wonder how much this premium is.
What is the transfer record for an English player to a foreign club and why dont foreign clubs spend more time and money on all these "top top" english players.....
Is it a combination of these English players not being as good as the English press/sky/the transfer fees they cost would have us believe or is it purely because these English players dont really want to move abroad?
Kippy

English players feel they are in the best league in the world so in their minds why would they go through all the stress of moving so they can play in a smaller league.

flas

DH2K9 wrote: »

English players feel they are in the best league in the world so in their minds why would they go through all the stress of moving so they can play in a smaller league.

suppose if they wanted to play in a better standard of football league they could move to spain

Melion

Jermaine Pennant was the last "big name" english player to go abroad a few years ago, not Bothroyd

DH2K9

flas wrote: »

suppose if they wanted to play in a better standard of football league they could move to spain

Did you not read what I said? In their minds England has the best league.

VW 1

So it only took 4 replies to get OT, the OP clearly asked what the record transfer is, if you dont have an answer other than I dont know why reply at all?

eagle eye

David Beckham £25 million in 2003. The Premier league pays top wages so its not like they would move abroad for money reasons. Its only a handful of clubs that would interest players in their prime like Real Madrid, Barca, AC Milan, Inter maybe Bayern.

K-9

Doesn't seem to be a great success rate going back as far as Lineker, Rush, McManaman, Platt and Gaza.

Some reasonable success but nothing spectacular.

As for the English premium, is there anything similar in other countries or is this something that just seems to have become accepted to bump up fees?

dreamers75

Ince before beckham think that was 4 or 6 million, as for success not many. Brady possibly the best of the lot but hes not english

kippy

eagle eye wrote: »

David Beckham £25 million in 2003. The Premier league pays top wages so its not like they would move abroad for money reasons. Its only a handful of clubs that would interest players in their prime like Real Madrid, Barca, AC Milan, Inter maybe Bayern.

Thanks, cant believe I forgot about Beckham.

Moving on - Why is there an "English premium"? I can think of a few reasons:
1. There are some rules regarding the make up of a squad.
2. English players are less likely to want to move abroad. (Based on a few earlier facts it appears this is moot, English players wont be wanted abroad)
3. English players are generally better than those available - oh wait, thats not actually the case generally.
4. The number of "decent" english players available is severly limited.

Anyone care to add to those or perhaps clarify some other reasons for this "premium".

Blatter

eagle eye wrote: »

David Beckham £25 million in 2003. The Premier league pays top wages so its not like they would move abroad for money reasons. Its only a handful of clubs that would interest players in their prime like Real Madrid, Barca, AC Milan, Inter maybe Bayern.

Theres big tax incentives to move abroad though?

I think the reason many have not moved is either because (a) they are not good enough and (b) Top English players tend to me more loyal than their foreign counter-parts(this is my opinion but I accept it could be debated)

dreamers75

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

(a) they are not good enough and

I agree with this sort of, they dont need to leave england as it has a lot of professional clubs and other countries dont have that. The best english players know they can do far better in england than anywhere else moneywise.

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

(b) Top English players tend to me more loyal than their foreign counter-parts(this is my opinion but I accept it could be debated)

Taking the english team as an example do anyone of them play for the club they started pro ball with? No such thing as loyalty in football*


* except for Le Tissier

Dolph Starbeam

SOCCER4LIFE wrote: »

Theres big tax incentives to move abroad though?

I think the reason many have not moved is either because (a) they are not good enough and (b) Top English players tend to me more loyal than their foreign counter-parts(this is my opinion but I accept it could be debated)

In moving to Spain they used to be able to save a fortune on tax but not any more, in Spain they now pay the same ammount of tax. I'm not so sure on other european leagues though.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

K-9

dreamers75 wrote: »

Ince before beckham think that was 4 or 6 million, as for success not many. Brady possibly the best of the lot but hes not english

True, it took Platini to replace him!

kippy wrote: »

Thanks, cant believe I forgot about Beckham.

Moving on - Why is there an "English premium"? I can think of a few reasons:
1. There are some rules regarding the make up of a squad.
2. English players are less likely to want to move abroad. (Based on a few earlier facts it appears this is moot, English players wont be wanted abroad)
3. English players are generally better than those available - oh wait, thats not actually the case generally.
4. The number of "decent" english players available is severly limited.

Anyone care to add to those or perhaps clarify some other reasons for this "premium".

The limited supply is a good point, as can be shown on the international stage. There just isn't a "golden" generation coming up, bar a couple of notable exceptions.

K-9

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Indeed. I apologise profusely to all Welsh people for that over sight.

CoalBucket

dreamers75 wrote: »

Taking the english team as an example do anyone of them play for the club they started pro ball with? No such thing as loyalty in football*


* except for Le Tissier

Tony Adams, Paul Scholes, Gary Neville, Steven Gerrard, Jaime Carragher, John Terry, Ledley King

Thats just the english one club men off the top of my head

dreamers75

CoalBucket wrote: »

Tony Adams, Paul Scholes, Gary Neville, Steven Gerrard, Jaime Carragher, John Terry, Ledley King

Thats just the english one club men off the top of my head

retired, retired,retired, Gerrard, Does Carragher actually play for england :eek:,Terry, King

So 3 of them, now what about the english team

greendom

The EPL pays the highest wages in football (as an average, obviously there are exceptions). English players are probably not seen as good value for money for European clubs. Have to pay too much in transfers and wages to get them. There may also be a perception that in general they don't possess the technical level required to play there

8-10

K-9 wrote: »

Doesn't seem to be a great success rate going back as far as Lineker, Rush, McManaman, Platt and Gaza.

Some reasonable success but nothing spectacular.

As for the English premium, is there anything similar in other countries or is this something that just seems to have become accepted to bump up fees?

Italy is probably the closest example. Christian Vieri went for nearly as much as Carroll back in the 1990's! (Lazio -> Inter £32mil), Buffon went for huge money a couple of years later. At the time that league had a lot of money behind it, similar to England now. The players really had no desire to move abroad.

Another thing about the premium is the new rule on homegrown players. If you're on the cusp of the quota and need a player you'll have to spend more on an English player (I know homegrown can be foreigners too but more often than not I mean) than a like-for-like foreign option.

As for going back to the oldies for success rate don't forget Kevin Keegan winning 2 Ballon d'Or's and 1 runner-up with Hamburg!

dreamers75

dreamers75 wrote: »

Does Carragher actually play for england :eek:

He played in the world cup last summer, he has retired since though.

Agbonlahor is another.

VW 1

dreamers75 wrote: »

I agree with this sort of, they dont need to leave england as it has a lot of professional clubs and other countries dont have that. The best english players know they can do far better in england than anywhere else moneywise.




Taking the english team as an example do anyone of them play for the club they started pro ball with? No such thing as loyalty in football*


* except for Le Tissier

CoalBucket wrote: »

Tony Adams, Paul Scholes, Gary Neville, Steven Gerrard, Jaime Carragher, John Terry, Ledley King

Thats just the english one club men off the top of my head

dreamers75 wrote: »

retired, retired,retired, Gerrard, Does Carragher actually play for england :eek:,Terry, King


So 3 of them, now what about the english team

Why does LeTissier stand in your argument but Adams Scholes and G.Nev get knocked off as retired!?

Blatter

Also, the second language in most european countries is english. I think alot of foreign players have some bit of english coming over, where as not many english players would have a clue of italian or spanish. This is probably a bit off putting to go foreign although can be overcome.

Another thing, a foreign player will more than likely have someone to talk to at the club if he was to move to England. I would imagine most Prem league clubs have italian/spanish/french/south American players so it makes it that bit less daunting if your moving to a club and you know there is someone there that speaks your language/is from your country.

Whereas, how many english players are actually playing in the Italian/french/spanish leagues? Practically nobody.

gustavo

kippy wrote: »

Thanks, cant believe I forgot about Beckham.

Moving on - Why is there an "English premium"? I can think of a few reasons:
1. There are some rules regarding the make up of a squad.
2. English players are less likely to want to move abroad. (Based on a few earlier facts it appears this is moot, English players wont be wanted abroad)
3. English players are generally better than those available - oh wait, thats not actually the case generally.
4. The number of "decent" english players available is severly limited.

Anyone care to add to those or perhaps clarify some other reasons for this "premium".

English clubs are generally financially sound so they don't need to sell their best players for a going rate so it usually takes an unrealistic offer.

ollie1

Jonathan Woodgate's move to real Madrid 13.4 million

amiable

dreamers75 wrote: »

Ince before beckham think that was 4 or 6 million, as for success not many. Brady possibly the best of the lot but hes not english

In between Beckham and Brady was David Platt who was successful in Italy

iregk

gustavo wrote: »

English clubs are generally financially sound so they don't need to sell their best players for a going rate so it usually takes an unrealistic offer.

I don't ever know where to start with that one!

astrofool

ollie1 wrote: »

Jonathan Woodgate's move to real Madrid 13.4 million

Probably Newcastle's first piece of good business ever. The biggest clowns in England selling to the biggest clown's in spain (from a running the club POV).

amiable

astrofool wrote: »

Probably Newcastle's first piece of good business ever. The biggest clowns in England selling to the biggest clown's in spain (from a running the club POV).

IMO if Woodgate was injury free that would have been a realistic fee.
But alas we all know Woodgate is crocked so it doesn't really matter.
There's no way to justify the fee

yabadabado

English players generally stay in England and thats the same for the spainish,italian and german players.they are playing in their home countries and in the leagues that are considered to be the best.

amiable

yabadabado wrote: »

English players generally stay in England and thats the same for the spainish,italian and german players.they are playing in their home countries and in the leagues that are considered to be the best.

In fairness there's been a lot more Spanish and Italians playing in England in the last few years than vice versa.
Fabregas, Almunia, Cuellar, Torres, Reina, Garcia, Alonso, Arbeloa, Salgado, Arteta, Davis Silva, Enrique are all spanish players off the top of my head
Balotelli, Cudicini, Aquilani and Rossi being Italian

yabadabado

I would reckon the wages would be a big factor in this,most of the players you have listed would have got much higher wages moving to England than they recieved in spain or italy.except for the top few clubs in spain and italy the wages would not be as good as their english counterparts.

pickarooney

Chris Waddle was a big success in France and cost a whopping 4.5 million back in the 80s.
Cascarino (and let's not pretend he wasn't English) had a whale of a time over here too.

JonAldo (and let's face it the man was a thoroughbred scouse) was a hit in Spain and the first ever non-Basque to sign for Sociedad which is even more of a sign of how much they rated him than the million quid they shelled out for Rush Mk II.