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Garda and Social Welfare now combining for checkpoints

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13

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    #62
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    Jagle wrote: »
    i work never claimed any sort of social welfare or grant, never known my pps number, never really have to use it so dont remember it, its written down at home somewhere thats all


    I have worked for years and have had to use my pps on many occasions cos most forms for anything now require your pps number.


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    #63
    parsi
    Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    BlackBlade wrote: »
    emm why would that be then chief?
    it was going on for months last year where 2 lads in a mondeo and uniforms pulling cars over actually robbed them!
    so try getting off your computer and into the real world every now and then and you might see that **** does tend to happen!

    Tell you what chief -

    There are hundreds of checkpoints carried out every day. You've cited one incident that happened last year.

    So which is the most likely - that you'll meet one of the hundreds of legitimate checkpoints or the one mockya one ?


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    #64
    HarryPotter41
    Registered Users Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭HarryPotter41


    BlackBlade wrote: »
    emm why would that be then chief?
    it was going on for months last year where 2 lads in a mondeo and uniforms pulling cars over actually robbed them!
    so try getting off your computer and into the real world every now and then and you might see that **** does tend to happen!


    Link to back up the above??


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    #65
    Kerikosan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 213 ✭✭Kerikosan


    I saw a whole van of builders getting caught and stopped!

    3 lads in the front and like 6 lads hopped out the back in what looked like normal builders attire went into the post office for welfare all hopped into the van and drove off not 10 seconds later a garda car was after them. do you think the Post office rang?

    Damh that must have been some catch for the welfare office!


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    #66
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    PaintDoctor wrote: »
    Friend was stopped by a Gard checkpoint in Ballincollig this week, and there was a Social Welfare officer present. Asked him as many questions as they could, who he was, what was his PPS number was he working, same questions to the other people in the vehicle.

    Anyone else find it a tad too much? [EDIT: removed this bit about demographics on hindsight and helpful advice from posters] and the ordinary guy on the street now can't take his car out on the road without being given the 3rd degree.


    What a waste of time. These checkpoints are purely done for show.
    Wouldnt it be alot easier to catch people at work, who are working for cash. Not driving down the road, not exactly a crime. People on welfare are aloud to do this arent they.


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    #67
    Funsterdelux
    Registered Users Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Funsterdelux


    Dob74 wrote: »
    What a waste of time. These checkpoints are purely done for show.
    Wouldnt it be alot easier to catch people at work, who are working for cash. .

    Well they do that too.


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    #68
    cornbb
    Registered Users Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    Maybe I'm missing something, but what exactly are they trying to prove/achieve by stopping people at the side of the road? Its not against the rules for unemployed people to drive from A to B. If you are dressed neatly and heading into an industrial estate at 8.55 you could be on your way to a job interview. If you are driving in a van full of tools and cement, maybe you're coming back from the builder's merchants to do a job on your own house.

    I'm all in favour of catching out Welfare cheats but stopping people at the side of the road for questioning seems like a waste of time, for the public, the Gardai and the SW officers. I can't imagine any scenario that a cheat couldn't talk themselves out of.


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    #69
    Funsterdelux
    Registered Users Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Funsterdelux


    Well, it must be working if they're doing it.

    I'm sure the Gardai are catching folk without tax/insurance at the same time too!

    If they weren't trying every avenue to catch fraudsters people would be giving out about that too!


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    #70
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    It's difficult to police, but I don't really see how stopping people at the side of the road would make any sense other than get those of us who are working or who are claiming welfare legitimately up in arms and feeling like we're living in a police state.

    Surely, the most logical solution would be to inspect workplaces ?

    They could check that at least minimum wage was being paid, people had adequate contracts, and that they weren't dole recipients and had valid work permits (if required).

    This kind of thing should be dealt with by the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment & Welfare combined.


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    #71
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    In Donegal checkpoints were common; there it was cars not paying import tax and it was Gardai and Customs. They demanded payment immediately and offenders had to go to cashpoints or lose their cars.

    Seen a couple of cars being searched here this last while by Guards .


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    #72
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    dory wrote: »
    Would be so much easier if they could just use computers like other countries.

    Simple solution - every has a card, with their PPS and photo on it. When the gardai stop them all they should have to do is scan their card and see if they're claiming. Loads of other countries make it mandatory to carry ID, why can't we do it?

    And no more of this - send in your P60 bull. When you start a new job they should be able to scan in your details. Why are the government afraid of technology?

    Why should we? ID cards are like an intrusion, like we are cattle being tagged.


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    #73
    eastbono
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭eastbono


    If one has nothing to hide and ID card is not an intrusion.


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    #74
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    If somone has nothing to hide then why should they have to have an ID card, just in case they might have something to hide?

    It is an intrusion if you have to carry an ID card or turn up with it at a garda station every time a garda asks you in the street. Its bad enough having to turn up at a garda station if stopped at a checkpoint and asked for insurance or licence, now we would have to do it if stopped while walking down the street.


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    #75
    eastbono
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭eastbono


    Most european countries have an ID card... personally I would have no aproblem with one.... I suppose its a matter of personal opinion.

    If ID cards were the norm in Ireland you would not have to go to your Garda station you would probably be obliged to carry it on you like in the US.

    At the moment you are obliged to have your driving license with you when driving.... so what is the difference.


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    #76
    Savage93
    Registered Users Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Savage93


    And what they're doing is wrong, why???
    this country id f****d and a lot of it is down to social welfare/dole scammers, this is why taxpayers are crippled in taxes, I have no issue in the state supporting people out of work, but don't milk it, this is theft pure and simple and the sooner everyone realises this the better


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    #77
    ArtSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 5,614 ✭✭✭ArtSmart


    PaintDoctor wrote: »
    True. I guess that's cause I'd chatted to a taxi driver at the weekend who'd collected 2 non-nationals, 2 kids, all their shopping and couldn't believe what he told me. They put all their shopping in which filled the boot, and left the buggies behind because the social welfare would give them two more.

    So - that's my bad, and I probably shouldn't have posted that. Obviously too late now as I've pulled the trigger, but I'll retract that.
    *sigh*

    i wouldnt even mind if you were just trolling.


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    #78
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    eastbono wrote: »
    Most european countries have an ID card... personally I would have no aproblem with one.... I suppose its a matter of personal opinion.
    Other european countries are not neutral, should we copy that too? Or maybe we have now the way its gone.
    If ID cards were the norm in Ireland you would not have to go to your Garda station you would probably be obliged to carry it on you like in the US.
    You would if you forgot it, or lost it.
    At the moment you are obliged to have your driving license with you when driving.... so what is the difference.

    So its a licence now? The difference is people walking down the street dont need to have a driving licence. A driving licence indiates you have passed a driving test. What does an ID card indicate, that you passed a test to exist?

    Im not saying your wrong ar anything like that. I just think the whole idea of them is like a tightly controlled society. To not be able to go out without an ID card seems a bit controlling. What if you lose it, pay for another one? Its like a licence to be alive.


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    #79
    eastbono
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭eastbono


    A national ID card or a national Social Welfare ID card which is being proposed and I think has been enacted by Minister O Cuiv should cut down on the amount of social welfare fraud and that should be a good thing for the country. I will not get into an argument about our neutrality as that is very debatable depending on a persons opinion on neutrality.


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    #80
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    eastbono wrote: »
    A national ID card or a national Social Welfare ID card which is being proposed and I think has been enacted by Minister O Cuiv should cut down on the amount of social welfare fraud and that should be a good thing for the country. I will not get into an argument about our neutrality as that is very debatable depending on a persons opinion on neutrality.

    Yes its not my intention to debate any of it especially neutrality. My point was people often say "but every other country does it" when putting forward any point such as ID cards. Unless people think we should do every single thing every other country does then there is not much validity to that line.


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    #81
    eastbono
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭eastbono


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Other european countries are not neutral, should we copy that too? Or maybe we have now the way its gone.


    You would if you forgot it, or lost it.

    Well if you forgot its compulsory for you to have it on your person then yes you would have to go to Garda station if that is what is requested if you lost it you would have to probably go to Garda station to report the loss ( this of course is hypothetical) the same as when you lose your passport.



    So its a licence now? The difference is people walking down the street dont need to have a driving licence. A driving licence indiates you have passed a driving test. What does an ID card indicate, that you passed a test to exist?

    Im not saying your wrong ar anything like that. I just think the whole idea of them is like a tightly controlled society. To not be able to go out without an ID card seems a bit controlling. What if you lose it, pay for another one? Its like a licence to be alive.

    Well I have a driving licence... maybe the new ones are a driving permit but mine has not expired yet. An ID card indicates your identity... eg... place of birth, country of birth (currently on your passport) and I presume your PPSN as well as a photo on it and your home address... that is what I have seen on IDs from the eastern european states.


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    #82
    eastbono
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭eastbono


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Yes its not my intention to debate any of it especially neutrality. My point was people often say "but every other country does it" when putting forward any point such as ID cards. Unless people think we should do every single thing every other country does then there is not much validity to that line.

    Ok well I didnt say every other country has an ID card and I know you didnt say that I did. I dont think we should do everything every country does..(except what iceland did with their banking crisis but that is another story) but its my personal opinion that there is nothing wrong with having a National ID card...tbh your ppsn is like and id card anyway because you are asked for it for numerous things... e.g. bank account...eye test... dental check... application for driving permit... people doing junior cert or leaving cert have to have ppsn the list is very long.


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    #83
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    eastbono wrote: »
    Well I have a driving licence... maybe the new ones are a driving permit but mine has not expired yet. An ID card indicates your identity... eg... place of birth, country of birth (currently on your passport) and I presume your PPSN as well as a photo on it and your home address... that is what I have seen on IDs from the eastern european states.

    To be required to have and carry at all times an ID card is an invasion of your civil liberties i believe. But besides that, the above info would be very handy for muggers who attack people in the street and get a hold of their card.


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    #84
    eastbono
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭eastbono


    We will have to agree to differ on the question of ID cards I wouldnt have a problem having one. As for being mugged Im sure a lot of data can be got from your passport or driving licence if you have it on you when you are mugged tbh I would be more worried about cancelling my bank cards but thats me.


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    #85
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    eastbono wrote: »
    We will have to agree to differ on the question of ID cards I wouldnt have a problem having one. As for being mugged Im sure a lot of data can be got from your passport or driving licence if you have it on you when you are mugged tbh I would be more worried about cancelling my bank cards but thats me.

    Yes but you are not required to carry your driving licence or passport every time you go for a walk, or walk to the shop or go to the pub. Im just saying why should we be forced to have to carry an identifying badge everywhere you go. Anyway if they did bring it in, wht will they do if you dont have you ID with you? Let you off with a warning? Its not about the ID cards id have a problem as such, its the idea you must carry it with you at all times. Silly. Same as the driving licences, your supposed to have that with you when driving, what will they do if you dont? Charge you with forgetting it?

    To back your arguement up somewhat though, i doubt your home address would be on them.


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    #86
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Any euro ones I've seen have your home address.

    If it makes proving your identity easier then I'm all for it.


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    #87
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Never had much problem proving identity. But its not the ID card itself i think would be bad, its this compulsory effort to carry it at all times. Have you really had difficulty proving your identity before?


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    #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    professore wrote: »
    Any euro ones I've seen have your home address.

    If it makes proving your identity easier then I'm all for it.
    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Never had much problem proving identity. But its not the ID card itself i think would be bad, its this compulsory effort to carry it at all times. Have you really had difficulty proving your identity before?

    I wouldn't fancy having to carry ID around all the time, I rarely bring my wallet out to he honest, just bring a lash of cash.


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    #89
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    Savage93 wrote: »
    And what they're doing is wrong, why???
    this country id f****d and a lot of it is down to social welfare/dole scammers, this is why taxpayers are crippled in taxes, I have no issue in the state supporting people out of work, but don't milk it, this is theft pure and simple and the sooner everyone realises this the better


    This country is ruined by people in high places scamming. Playing golf when they should be working. Being completely incompetent and paying themselves top dollar.

    Dole scams are a problem but in the general scheme of things its fairly low.
    The cops dont have check points outside Banks HQ to make sure people arent leaving work on time to protect the taxpayers investment.
    So catching someone getting 10 euro cash an hour isnt that major a crime.


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    #90
    Funsterdelux
    Registered Users Posts: 3,376 ✭✭✭Funsterdelux


    Dob74 wrote: »
    This country is ruined by people in high places scamming. Playing golf when they should be working. Being completely incompetent and paying themselves top dollar.

    Dole scams are a problem but in the general scheme of things its fairly low.
    The cops dont have check points outside Banks HQ to make sure people arent leaving work on time to protect the taxpayers investment.
    So catching someone getting 10 euro cash an hour isnt that major a crime.

    Fraud is fraud, whether one is a big fish or a small fish!


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    #91
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Funsterdelux wrote: »
    Fraud is fraud, whether one is a big fish or a small fish!

    So someone on welfare that cant afford to pay their bills gets €20 for painting someone`s living room and is committing fraud? I take it you never had to claim before so. Or never ever got handed a few euro for helping someone out in your life without mentioning it to the revenue?


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