Wilton Shopping centre Redevelopment

fonecrusher1

Just reading about this in the paper today. Planning permission has been granted by Cork County Council for a massive redevelopment of the wilton shoppping area.

I think its a great idea. Bishopstown is way way behind the likes of Douglas & Ballincollig regarding having a modern central shopping zone. The existing wilton was decent about 20 years ago, now it just looks like an outdated mess.
Unfortunately our old friends Tescos are objecting about the construction of this project & are appealing the decesion due to them considering the actual building of the development 'adversely affecting their business'. Translation; they're worried about the possibility of temporarily losing a small bit of custom throughout the duration of the build. So basically who cares about the huge amount of job creation this will create eh?:rolleyes:
So even though their section of wilton will not be directly affected by the demolition & rebuilding or the newer part of wilton attached to tesco they're still trying to throw a spanner in the works. I think its incredible that even though the county council has granted planning permission for an idea that will be of huge benefit to the local area, a multi-chain supermarket can make it all grind to a halt.

Who knows how long it might take to get the project back on track now?

gbee

There has been a bitter legal row on that site which resulted in Tesco going their own way and redeveloping their own bit.

I'd object too TBH. We don't need MORE retail spaces.

Kimono-Girl

last time i was in Wilton there were empty units all over the centre, even the new units have empty slots,

what makes them think building more units is a good thing?


take douglas as an example, loads of new units built, majority of which are empty....

Oafley Jones

Kimono-Girl wrote: »

last time i was in Wilton there were empty units all over the centre, even the new units have empty slots,

what makes them think building more units is a good thing?


take douglas as an example, loads of new units built, majority of which are empty....

Precisely, the last thing Cork needs is more apartments, offices or retail units.

langdang

Tesco wanted a petrol station there but the other stations in the area objected (successfully) on the grounds that it would "adversely affect their business" so what go around come around I suppose.

murphym7

Can you imagine what the traffic would be like around the area if this development went ahead, crazy to even think about it. As was said, too much retail space in Cork as it is.

dmn

did anyone hear about this development on REDFM news today at 5?
they have said that an bord pleanala has given it the green light for development.
I didn't hear all the details but did hear that construction would take upto 5 years and will include 9 screen cinema, bowling alley within 4 towers around a central plaza. Towers will range from 4 to 7 stories.

Conditions of the planning permission include:
construction can only start once the wilton roundabout has been changed to a signalled junction and the flyover on sarsfield road roundabout has been completed.

did anybody hear anymore?

54kroc

Thats sweet, it's well over due imo.

I read this on the city council website.

For 10 year planning permission for the mixed use development of Wilton Shopping Centre on a site of 6.1ha which is located to the south of Bishopstown Road, to the east of Cardinal Way and to the west of Sarsfield Road at Wilton, Cork. The development will consist of the demolition of Unit No.s 1 – 44, including the Penney’s Store, of the existing Wilton Shopping Centre building, which is located to the immediate north and north east of the existing Bank of Ireland Bank building, Tesco Store and adjoining 10 no retail units (Units Nos. 45-55), which are to be retained. The proposal is for a mixed use development of 4 no blocks, Blocks A-D, ranging in height from 4 to 7 no. storeys (maximum overall building height of 33.7 metres), over double basement, arranged around a network of pedestrian streets and a new open space, Wilton Town Square, which is proposed to the north of the SMA Community Centre and Bishopstown Library and east of Cardinal Way. The proposal consists of a total proposed Gross Floor Area (GFA) of 78,475sq.m. comprising of retail and retail services (including café/restaurant uses) floorspace with a GFA of 27,126sq.m.; a 13 no screen cinema with a GFA of 6,789sq.m.; a 141 no bedroom hotel with a GFA of 7,614sq.m.; a multi function conference centre with a GFA of 8,176sq.m., including ancillary areas and an exhibition space/viewing gallery; 9 no student accommodation units, providing 47 no bed spaces with a GFA of 1,951sq.m.; medical services with a GFA of 5,970sq.m.; and offices with a GFA of 10,092sq.m. In addition 10,584sq.m. of floorspace dedicated to landlord areas is proposed, including food court seating, toilets, shared cores, general circulation, mechanical and electrical rooms and service corridors. The total floor area of all levels including the double basement is 130,386 sq.m. (An EIS and further details of development are available on file)

http://planning.corkcity.ie/InternetEnquiry/rpt_ViewApplicDetails.asp?validFileNum=1&app_num_file=0934191

fonecrusher1

Yeah i heard this on the radio as well. About time.

ianobrien

dmn wrote: »

Conditions of the planning permission include:
construction can only start once the wilton roundabout has been changed to a signalled junction and the flyover on sarsfield road roundabout has been completed.

I thought the flyover wasn't going to be built for years!

BanzaiBk

dmn wrote: »

Conditions of the planning permission include:
construction can only start once the wilton roundabout has been changed to a signalled junction and the flyover on sarsfield road roundabout has been completed.

:eek:

Lord help us.

run_Forrest_run

what will they call it, IMF Towers? ECB Super Mall, Troika Town Centre??

54kroc

Do they really need to change the wilton roundabout to a signalled junction?
I usually take the turn left for tesco coming up from the sarsfield road roundabout and the odd time I use the roundabout going to the hospital I've never had a bother.

Redisle

cork45 wrote: »

Do they really need to change the wilton roundabout to a signalled junction?
I usually take the turn left for tesco coming up from the sarsfield road roundabout and the odd time I use the roundabout going to the hospital I've never had a bother.

Id really question loads of the road related decisions around the area tbh. The removal of that roundabout in Togher there a while back and now that odd road layout on top of sarsfield road!

I don't see the need to signal that roundabout either but Id guess its an attempt to deal with the extra traffic caused by this new development. One stupid thing relating to that roundabout at the moment is if your heading from the roundabout into Bishopstown theres two lanes with one just vanishing up near Xtravision.. pretty retarded really. Same can be said leaving the Bandon Road Roundabout where one lane just vanishes.

I can't really see them filling many of the new retail spaces in this place tbh. However the hotel could well be successful due to the hospital. The cinema would also be a massive success Id say, taking a large amount of business away from MP and Ballincollig. To be fair though it is a bit outdated at the moment and the space is very underused being only single story.

discostu1

On one of the proposals I saw there were to be apartment blocks build where the ESB currently are. Is this what has been given planning cos I assume the ESB arent about to shift in the near future unless they have sold and not told anyone

Owen

The OP makes a point, that the months of inconvenience will be made up for by the new business generated after the development. Take a look inside Douglas Shopping Centre. Businesses which were open for 20 years had to close. Construction dragged on for years, and the rents remained the same while customers had the choice of entering a construction site, or popping over to the Douglas Court Shopping Centre.

Personally, I don't see the need for it in Wilton, but if the owners do decide to plough on, they should financially assist the tenants during construction. I'm aware due to some odd regulation that commercial rents in the likes of these places can't go down, only up - so the financial aid would need to happen in a different form, but it's not fair to expect a business to pay full rent in those circumstances. It'd be like asking a cinema to stay open and pay staff with the electricity off.

overmantle

It's time to say, 'STOP'.

I was shocked while in Ballincollig recently. I walked through the new 'Town Centre' and was stunned by what I saw. Vacant apartment, after vacant apartment. Occupancy levels, at a guess, were less than 10%. Retail units also lay vacant and the whole place had the feeling of an eerie ghost town.

In Bishopstown and the western suburbs, where City Council granted planning to developers for high rise apartments and high density developments, like there was no tomorrow, what remains? Boarded up deserted sites and unfinished, large scale developments. Are these to be the tenements of tomorrow?

I agree that the area is poorly served with amenities by comparison to areas like Douglas but what we don't need is yet more white elephants. I say to City Council, STOP, STOP, STOP. Enough is Enough.:mad:

dodger50

Cork does not need more apartments, more offices or more retail units. Of course the job spin off would be welcome but haven't we been down this road before?

Am I right in recalling that a number of years ago the City Council passed a motion that there would be no further development in the western suburds of more than than 3 stories - yet the planners have consistently ignored this?

http://www.corkcity.ie/newdevelopmentplan/VOLUME%20ONE%20INTERACTIVE/C14%20INTERACTIVE%20HI%20RES.pdf

Chapter 14.30

fonecrusher1

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The OP makes a point, that the months of inconvenience will be made up for by the new business generated after the development. Take a look inside Douglas Shopping Centre. Businesses which were open for 20 years had to close. Construction dragged on for years, and the rents remained the same while customers had the choice of entering a construction site, or popping over to the Douglas Court Shopping Centre.

Personally, I don't see the need for it in Wilton, but if the owners do decide to plough on, they should financially assist the tenants during construction. I'm aware due to some odd regulation that commercial rents in the likes of these places can't go down, only up - so the financial aid would need to happen in a different form, but it's not fair to expect a business to pay full rent in those circumstances. It'd be like asking a cinema to stay open and pay staff with the electricity off.

Its called progress.

Bishopstown is nothing but pharmacies, pubs & off-licenses...oh & few betting shops of course (there always seems to be plenty of money going into bookies & places that sell drink amazingly...yet we're all broke apparently!!!). It needs a modern, well designed central zone. This project isn't just a new wilton its the future of bishopstown.

Try to look at the big picture, in 5 years time when this is finished, things may have gotten a bit better? & these empty shop premises you speak of might begin to be reopened? Lets be a little bit positive instead of strangling every idea before its even been started.

Ya know what the funny thing is? I bet everyone who was complaining about the new Douglas & Ballincollig shopping centres while they were being built probably now heads into these places every single week with smiles on their faces.

People want progress but they want it to somehow magically happen overnight without any disruption/inconvienence. Thats just not the way it works folks.

Owen

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Try to look at the big picture, in 5 years time when this is finished, things may have gotten a bit better? & these empty shop premises you speak of might begin to be reopened?

Do you run a business?

It's extremely hurtful to hear words like the above when a good friend of mine's shop closed after 20 years due to the reconstruction that went on in another shopping centre. The lack of trade was like a cancer bleeding his business dry. If you do run a business, you'd know that once things start to go bad like that, it's nearly impossible to re-open. Banks just don't want to know these days.

54kroc

Thats a good point PaintDoctor, surely they would do something with the rent for the businesses that will be affected.
I don't think you can compare Ballincollig to Wilton, there both very different, Wilton has a massive customer base all within five minutes of it, I'd say the CUH alone accounts for a lot of the footfall in there.

fonecrusher1

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Do you run a business?

It's extremely hurtful to hear words like the above when a good friend of mine's shop closed after 20 years due to the reconstruction that went on in another shopping centre. The lack of trade was like a cancer bleeding his business dry. If you do run a business, you'd know that once things start to go bad like that, it's nearly impossible to re-open. Banks just don't want to know these days.

No i don't run a business. I don't need to run a business to have an opinion on this matter. Im a resident of cork & i think that qualifies my input on the issue.

Its sad to hear of your friends misfortune but please don't make my opinions a platform to vent your frustrations on behalf your friend. I didn't close down his business. If me being positive towards this project causes you hurt then i really don't know what to say to you. That certainly wasn't my intention.

All im saying is i think it will be a good thing in the long run. Bishopstown needs updating.

overmantle

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Its called progress.

Bishopstown is nothing but pharmacies, pubs & off-licenses...oh & few betting shops of course (there always seems to be plenty of money going into bookies & places that sell drink amazingly...yet we're all broke apparently!!!). It needs a modern, well designed central zone. This project isn't just a new wilton its the future of bishopstown.

Try to look at the big picture, in 5 years time when this is finished, things may have gotten a bit better? & these empty shop premises you speak of might begin to be reopened? Lets be a little bit positive instead of strangling every idea before its even been started.

Ya know what the funny thing is? I bet everyone who was complaining about the new Douglas & Ballincollig shopping centres while they were being built probably now heads into these places every single week with smiles on their faces.

People want progress but they want it to somehow magically happen overnight without any disruption/inconvienence. Thats just not the way it works folks.

I'm sorry but you bet wrongly if you think everyone is heading into the new developments in Ballincollig and Douglas with smiles on their faces. Some minor redevelopment or revamping of existing units in Wilton Shopping Centre would be fine. The problem is with the high rise apartments, of which there is already an alarming over supply. It was upsetting to see the ridiculously low levels of occupancy, not to mention the retail units. During the Celtic Tiger years, the planning and building continued like there was no tomorrow and this country is going to have to pay for that blind greed for at least a generation.

It's a pity that planners got things so incredibly wrong for the Bishopstown/Wilton area. Entertainment facilities (such as a cinema) should have been prioritised but all they wanted was more and more high rise apartments. Developers kept going like there was no tomorrow and many left the ordinary tax payer to pick up the tab. Now, Enough is very definitely, ENOUGH.

Prowetod

I'm a little torn on whether to support it or not. The cinema and the bowling should do quite well. The apartments, hotel and extra retail units are not really needed. Then the amount of traffic that these will bring will be horrendous.

cookie75

Bowling alley and Cinema great addition,small hotel across from CUH could make sense but serious roadworks needed to accomodate this as things are bad enough trafficwise already.

Dudess

It's a pretty crappy centre apart from the new bit - I'd welcome development there.

Traffic lights on the wilton roundabout would be a joke, the proposed development seems obscene, the only gain would be in the construction of it I reckon, same ole story again. I might go driving a digger for a few years there :pac:

Owen

cork45 wrote: »

Thats a good point PaintDoctor ... I don't think you can compare Ballincollig to Wilton, there both very different

I didn't mention Ballincollig

pixie_dust

It does seem like a complete joke that they actually got the go-ahead for it. While it might look well on paper, I doubt it will work out for anyone unless things pick up big time.

A cinema; go to Ballincollig or Mp any friday/sat night & they'd be lucky to have it quarter full. Same goes for the bowling alley, leisureplex isn't the busiest either. Most shops in these centers are still lucky to be open and are struggling. There's also the fact that there is a large elderly community around bishopstown. I doubt the residents would be too keen on a 4-7 story development. Traffic would also be chaotic, bad enough as it is.

It would be nice to have some sort of renewal to the center, but said plans are a bit too much. It's a recession, I'm sure a lick of paint would do wonders.

54kroc

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I didn't mention Ballincollig

I didn't say you did, you edited my post :mad:
My first sentence was agreeing with your post, another poster mentioned Ballincollig which I don't think can be compared to Wilton.

Chuck Stone

I support the redevelopment and I live nearby - Bishopstown seriously lacks a good commercial centre with a cinema and bolwing alley etc. Other parts of the southside are well served so why shouldn't Btown be brought up to standard?

I'm always bemused by the people who hate high-rise. High rise is good planning. I get the feeling that people who hate high rise are just hyper-conservative and just don't like new stuff.

Back and front gardens are a luxury in cities and if cities only grow outwards and not upwards you end up with sprawling conurbations with poor transport services and traffic jams (see L.A.)

If you go for high density cities like Amsterdam you have excellent services and a better quality of life. You don't even need to own a car the transport services are so good.

I understand that we have an over-supply of housing at the moment but in the future I'd be in favour of highrise only development within 10 miles of the city centre.