Wilton Shopping centre Redevelopment

MunsterCycling

What the Wilton Road Roudabout needs is what they call in France auto-pont, precast flyover bridges to relieve the flow of traffic from the Wilton Road to Bishopstown Road

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopont

Oafley Jones

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I support the redevelopment and I live nearby - Bishopstown seriously lacks a good commercial centre with a cinema and bolwing alley etc. Other parts of the southside are well served so why shouldn't Btown be brought up to standard?

I'm always bemused by the people who hate high-rise. High rise is good planning. I get the feeling that people who hate high rise are just hyper-conservative and just don't like new stuff.

Back and front gardens are a luxury in cities and if cities only grow outwards and not upwards you end up with sprawling conurbations with poor transport services and traffic jams (see L.A.)

If you go for high density cities like Amsterdam you have excellent services and a better quality of life. You don't even need to own a car the transport services are so good.

I understand that we have an over-supply of housing at the moment but in the future I'd be in favour of highrise only development within 10 miles of the city centre.

Good planning is good planning. To suggest that high rise is automatically good planning is ridiculous e.g. flats in Ballymun and more recently Adamstown. You say that people don't like high-rise because it's "new stuff" is funny to me because the notion of us all living happily in high rise developments went out with Corbusier's lot back in the 60's. Amsterdam and L.A.'s morphology cannot simply be broken down as you have done, to do so ignores the many social and cultural ideologies that have informed both. To casually suggest that Amsterdams services can be attributed to high density living is absurd. The plan for Wilton show that the lessons of the past few years have yet to be taken on board, I'm surprised that there's actually any in favour of it on here.

BTW if any of you are studying geography in UCC and are interested in cities, planning etc. i'd highly recommend Dr. Kevin Hourihan excellent modules.

overmantle

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I support the redevelopment and I live nearby - Bishopstown seriously lacks a good commercial centre with a cinema and bolwing alley etc. Other parts of the southside are well served so why shouldn't Btown be brought up to standard?

I'm always bemused by the people who hate high-rise. High rise is good planning. I get the feeling that people who hate high rise are just hyper-conservative and just don't like new stuff.

Back and front gardens are a luxury in cities and if cities only grow outwards and not upwards you end up with sprawling conurbations with poor transport services and traffic jams (see L.A.)

If you go for high density cities like Amsterdam you have excellent services and a better quality of life. You don't even need to own a car the transport services are so good.

I understand that we have an over-supply of housing at the moment but in the future I'd be in favour of highrise only development within 10 miles of the city centre.

The problem is that soooo many of the High Rise apartments that have been built in the western suburbs are lying idle! Many other planned developments have been shelved, as there is currently an oversupply. The commercial centre idea has potential merit but the high apartments in the middle of it is crazy. I've seen this in Ballincollig, in Co. Dublin and in Limerick, where the high rise apartments element of these developments are white elephants. That is very definitely NOT good planning.

gbee

overmantle wrote: »

The problem is that soooo many of the High Rise apartments that have been built in the western suburbs are lying idle![/B].

Note all those are now redundant, they have been paid by NAMA and now it's business as usual.

Plus the common practice of getting the brown envelope has lead to 'inconvenience' in Cllrs. collecting their bribes, erm, I mean brown envelopes, phew, nearly exposed the new scam there, nowadays I just get the money in bundles, erm, what am I sayin ...

dmn

just came across this site with some images of the plans

http://www.wilsonarchitecture.ie/current_project.php?id=131&pic=2&action=prev

charlemont

dmn wrote: »

just came across this site with some images of the plans

http://www.wilsonarchitecture.ie/current_project.php?id=131&pic=2&action=prev

Picture 4 is Douglas Tesco, Whoever put that in should be sacked.

Wilton roundabout itself has magically disappeared from picture 1.

SlimCi

Hi all, I am originally from Bishopstown, grew up there and lived there until 1993 when I moved to Ballincollig and now live in Kildare.

I returned recently due to the death of my mother and stayed for 6 weeks in Bishopstown. I was so sad because the place is really dying, the houses are so expensive there that nobody with young families can afford them and there is a huge elderly community. Also subsidence was a huge issue in Bishopstown about 20 years ago, not sure if it still is.

I went to mass on Sundays in Wilton and Curraheen and it really freaked me out to see the elderly parents of all my old friends and hardly any young people.

Wilton really has nothing to offer in terms of shopping any more other than Tesco. The Wilton was full of elderly people one day eating lunch and to be honest the area needs total regeneration. And the old Bishopstown shopping centre is a disgrace and the Viscount was closed down. Felt very sad to see the place like that, it would be great to see it get a new lease of life but not sure if the older community there would be too interested in cinema and bowling, however with an influx of young families, things would I'm sure improve for the better.

namloc1980

SlimCi wrote: »

Hi all, I am originally from Bishopstown, grew up there and lived there until 1993 when I moved to Ballincollig and now live in Kildare.

I returned recently due to the death of my mother and stayed for 6 weeks in Bishopstown. I was so sad because the place is really dying, the houses are so expensive there that nobody with young families can afford them and there is a huge elderly community. Also subsidence was a huge issue in Bishopstown about 20 years ago, not sure if it still is.

I went to mass on Sundays in Wilton and Curraheen and it really freaked me out to see the elderly parents of all my old friends and hardly any young people.

Wilton really has nothing to offer in terms of shopping any more other than Tesco. The Wilton was full of elderly people one day eating lunch and to be honest the area needs total regeneration. And the old Bishopstown shopping centre is a disgrace and the Viscount was closed down. Felt very sad to see the place like that, it would be great to see it get a new lease of life but not sure if the older community there would be too interested in cinema and bowling, however with an influx of young families, things would I'm sure improve for the better.

+1

It's a sad reality of Ireland and Cork today and is a tragic legacy of the "Celtic Tiger" years. I'm from the city but living in a suburban town outside the city because I couldn't afford a house in the area I grew up like most of my neighbours. Now we're raising children in places that we have no connection with and there is very little community spirit here. And due to the curse of negative equity most of these couples will never have the prospect of living where they want or returning to the place they grew up to live.

Outkast_IRE

Anyone else feel like this will lead to a total traffic cluster**** the same as mahon point .
Just as an example , i was in an estate in douglas last friday, at 1pm and needed to get onto the dual carrigway by mahon , it took me 40 mins due mostly to the sheer volume of traffic entering mahon point delaying everything, im just wondering how can they hope to avoid such a sceanario again , especially with a hospital next door traffic jams could mean lives lost.

To me i wouldnt let this go ahead without major trafficworks and a very flexible control system on all approaches .

bladebrew

charlemont wrote: »

Picture 4 is Douglas Tesco, Whoever put that in should be sacked.

well spotted! i was staring at picture 4 wondering where it was showing in wilton:), despite living in douglas i didnt get it!!
im assuming the same company did work on douglas aswell,

personally i would like to see a development similar to this happen, maybe not on such a massive scale, but that shopping centre needs to be bulldozed, it very old and run down looking,

Oafley Jones

SlimCi wrote: »

Hi all, I am originally from Bishopstown, grew up there and lived there until 1993 when I moved to Ballincollig and now live in Kildare.

I returned recently due to the death of my mother and stayed for 6 weeks in Bishopstown. I was so sad because the place is really dying, the houses are so expensive there that nobody with young families can afford them and there is a huge elderly community. Also subsidence was a huge issue in Bishopstown about 20 years ago, not sure if it still is.

I went to mass on Sundays in Wilton and Curraheen and it really freaked me out to see the elderly parents of all my old friends and hardly any young people.

Wilton really has nothing to offer in terms of shopping any more other than Tesco. The Wilton was full of elderly people one day eating lunch and to be honest the area needs total regeneration. And the old Bishopstown shopping centre is a disgrace and the Viscount was closed down. Felt very sad to see the place like that, it would be great to see it get a new lease of life but not sure if the older community there would be too interested in cinema and bowling, however with an influx of young families, things would I'm sure improve for the better.

Bishopstown and Wilton age profile is just a result of the large development that occurred during the 60s & 70s. If you build a ton of new houses together you're bound to see hoardes of kids, then gangs of teenagers and eventually the residence growing older. When I was growing up I was one of the very few kids on our road because the houses were built in the 50s and the children had already grown up and moved on for the most part. I don't see why these, for want of a better term, life-cycles would freak you out; in 20-30 years time it will be the same in places that have seen rapid development like Rathcormac.

Also, Mass really is a terrible barometer for the amount of young people in an area.

fonecrusher1

dmn wrote: »

just came across this site with some images of the plans

http://www.wilsonarchitecture.ie/current_project.php?id=131&pic=2&action=prev

Looks great except for the strange inclusion of the Douglas tescos abomination???!!

I look forward to its completion. Its exactly what Bishopstown needs.

Oafley Jones

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Looks great except for the strange inclusion of the Douglas tescos abomination???!!

I look forward to its completion. Its exactly what Bishopstown needs.

Really? Extra retail capacity, apartments and student accommodation! Do these sound like things that are currently lacking in this country. They still haven't finished the development in Dennehy's cross.

namloc1980

charlemont wrote: »

Wilton roundabout itself has magically disappeared from picture 1.

That's because the development can't become operational until the Wilton Road roundabout is converted to a traffic lights controlled junction. From the An Bord Pleanala decision:

3. The development shall not become operational until:-
(a) the Bishopstown Road Roundabout has been converted to a traffic
signal controlled junction, and
(b) the upgrading of the Sarsfield Road interchange as part of the approved
South Ring Road Interchanges (Bandon and Sarsfield Road) Scheme
have been completed.

Now that will be fun!!

charlemont

namloc1980 wrote: »

That's because the development can't become operational until the Wilton Road roundabout is converted to a traffic lights controlled junction. From the An Bord Pleanala decision:



Now that will be fun!!

Fu*k no, Not more of the fuc*ing things, Thats me objecting to this development so.

SlimCi

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Bishopstown and Wilton age profile is just a result of the large development that occurred during the 60s & 70s. If you build a ton of new houses together you're bound to see hoardes of kids, then gangs of teenagers and eventually the residence growing older. When I was growing up I was one of the very few kids on our road because the houses were built in the 50s and the children had already grown up and moved on for the most part. I don't see why these, for want of a better term, life-cycles would freak you out; in 20-30 years time it will be the same in places that have seen rapid development like Rathcormac.
Also, Mass really is a terrible barometer for the amount of young people in an area.

Hi, I suppose you are right it shouldn't freak me out, but it did more so because I remembered a lot of the old people there when they were vibrant young parents of friends of mine.
You are right about the new housing estates built in the 50's and 60's BUT the children of these people would have stayed living in the area I think if they could have afforded the houses there which is a sad indictment of our times. So tell me what will happen when all these elderly people die off....will the houses be left vacant, will families be able to sell them considering the still horrendous prices. Redevelopment and rejuvenation is going to be a huge issue there in the near future.

fonecrusher1

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Really? Extra retail capacity, apartments and student accommodation! Do these sound like things that are currently lacking in this country. They still haven't finished the development in Dennehy's cross.

Yeah i do think Bisopstowns central zone needs to be renewed. Regarding the wilton redevelopement what would your proposal be? Just leave things as they are for another 10 years?

Are you living in Bishopstown by the way? If you are you would know very well that the place has very little to offer compared to areas like Douglas, ballincollig etc etc.

Outkast_IRE

charlemont wrote: »

Fu*k no, Not more of the fuc*ing things, Thats me objecting to this development so.

As a reference refer to the new "traffic lights" lights in togher nearby, the ones they demolished a roundabout to put in and there had to turn off after a week as they made traffic much worse in every direction , and they have been dangerously left on flashing amber ever since.

Outkast_IRE

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Yeah i do think Bisopstowns central zone needs to be renewed. Regarding the wilton redevelopement what would your proposal be? Just leave things as they are for another 10 years?

Are you living in Bishopstown by the way? If you are you would know very well that the place has very little to offer compared to areas like Douglas, ballincollig etc etc.

it defo needs redevelopment but nobody wants to be living next to a mahon point scenario traffic wise .

fonecrusher1

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

it defo needs redevelopment but nobody wants to be living next to a mahon point scenario traffic wise .

In all fairness & im not being smart but Bishopstown & mahon point are not the same place, they're completely different in layout. Mahon points weird road system was flawed from day one hence the massive queues of cars i see waiting to get in & out on thursdays/fridays & saturdays. Is it really fair to condemn this project based on that??

And also those who insist on the doomsday talk, if your not from Bishopstown then really i don't understand the motives behind your vigorous objections.

Outkast_IRE

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

In all fairness & im not being smart but Bishopstown & mahon point are not the same place, they're completely different in layout. Mahon points weird road system was flawed from day one hence the massive queues of cars i see waiting to get in & out on thursdays/fridays & saturdays. Is it really fair to condemn this project based on that??

And also those who insist on the doomsday talk, if your not from Bishopstown then really i don't understand the motives behind your vigorous objections.

Im from togher and pass through and spend time in bishopstown most days, The point being made is our brilliant planners insisted that mahon point build the junctions and layout on the approaching route as part of the planning process , and it still led to the way it is today.

I know wilton is a different scenario if anything traffic wise you have to be even more vigilant as there is a hospital with emergency vehicles next door , along with 2 main bus routes going around it .

Im all for the development as long as the surrounding works are done in a way that helps matters.

murphym7

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

In all fairness & im not being smart but Bishopstown & mahon point are not the same place, they're completely different in layout. Mahon points weird road system was flawed from day one hence the massive queues of cars i see waiting to get in & out on thursdays/fridays & saturdays. Is it really fair to condemn this project based on that??

And also those who insist on the doomsday talk, if your not from Bishopstown then really i don't understand the motives behind your vigorous objections.

I am not living in Bishopstown either, but I travel through it twice a day - so this will affect not just residents. To be fair, there are some comparrisons between the two locations - both will be large retail spaces attracting customers from all over the city and county, both are either directly in or very close to high density residential areas and finally, both are serviced directly from local access roads, which are already busy, and a high volume dual carriage way system. Its hard not to compare the two directly to be honest.

Besides all that, it is just not needed. There is already a glut of retail space in Cork already - all that will happen is that the business will be spread even more thinly, makes no sense to me. Just my opinion.

Outkast_IRE

murphym7 wrote: »

I am not living in Bishopstown either, but I travel through it twice a day - so this will affect not just residents. To be fair, there are some comparrisons between the two locations - both will be large retail spaces attracting customers from all over the city and county, both are either directly in or very close to high density residential areas and finally, both are serviced directly from local access roads, which are already busy, and a high volume dual carriage way system. Its hard not to compare the two directly to be honest.

Besides all that, it is just not needed. There is already a glut of retail space in Cork already - all that will happen is that the business will be spread even more thinly, makes no sense to me. Just my opinion.

Someone can correct me but i believe i read on the echo that their planning permission was dependant on the completion of the works at the sarsfield rd and bandon rd roundabouts , if that is the case we are looking at a start date of summer 2013 ?? so by the time old place is demolished and new place built it will probably be say minimum 12 months if they were to concentrate on the retail side alone but probably far more. So its probably 2015 0r 2016 when they envisage to be done.

I think the hope would be that things would be in a bit of a upswing by then.

CorkMan

Don't mean to go off-topic, but with the Orthopedic closing down in Gurranabraher, they reckon the land could be made into a supermarket centre. There is a great amount of land up there.

Outkast_IRE

CorkMan wrote: »

Don't mean to go off-topic, but with the Orthopedic closing down in Gurranabraher, they reckon the land could be made into a supermarket centre. There is a great amount of land up there.

Only problem i would see in getting planning permission is the road network around it is fairly poor isnt it ?

fonecrusher1

murphym7 wrote: »

I am not living in Bishopstown either, but I travel through it twice a day - so this will affect not just residents. To be fair, there are some comparrisons between the two locations - both will be large retail spaces attracting customers from all over the city and county, both are either directly in or very close to high density residential areas and finally, both are serviced directly from local access roads, which are already busy, and a high volume dual carriage way system. Its hard not to compare the two directly to be honest.

Besides all that, it is just not needed. There is already a glut of retail space in Cork already - all that will happen is that the business will be spread even more thinly, makes no sense to me. Just my opinion.

In my opinion as a bishopstown resident i think you are very wrong. Bishopstown has feck all besides a few pubs/off-licenses & chemists, it has very little to offer its people which is why you will see throngs of people leaving B town on a saturday to go in town/douglas/ballincollig to have a look around some decent shops & cafes.

Wilton as it currently stands is not fit to serve bishopstowns large enough population, basically we need a new central area.

It will effect you because you pass through it every day? Sorry but you'd be a low priorty concern in my books. Pass through any newly developed part of cork city & you kind of have to expect traffic at some stage to be honest. No great surprise there. Thats progress?!

calnand

wow really hope this goes ahead. Exactly what Wilton needs

charlemont

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

In my opinion as a bishopstown resident i think you are very wrong. Bishopstown has feck all besides a few pubs/off-licenses & chemists, it has very little to offer its people which is why you will see throngs of people leaving B town on a saturday to go in town/douglas/ballincollig to have a look around some decent shops & cafes.

Wilton as it currently stands is not fit to serve bishopstowns large enough population, basically we need a new central area.

It will effect you because you pass through it every day? Sorry but you'd be a low priorty concern in my books. Pass through any newly developed part of cork city & you kind of have to expect traffic at some stage to be honest. No great surprise there. Thats progress?!

Sorry but the way some of ye think about Bishopstown is just silly, Its not a suburb of New York at all !! This development will only further the Doughnut effect on Cork City centre, Bishopstown has two large retail facilities as it is and several smaller units spread out on the Curraheen Rd, And its not exactly far from the city centre or Ballincollig. This will be another car driven development which will only create more traffic chaos especially when the roundabout is removed.

The access in Eagle Valley always puzzles me, Go on Google Earth and have a look, Absolutely no pedestrian access to Dunnes or the walkover bridge.

fonecrusher1

charlemont wrote: »

Sorry but the way some of ye think about Bishopstown is just silly, Its not a suburb of New York at all !! This development will only further the Doughnut effect on Cork City centre, Bishopstown has two large retail facilities as it is and several smaller units spread out on the Curraheen Rd, And its not exactly far from the city centre or Ballincollig. This will be another car driven development which will only create more traffic chaos especially when the roundabout is removed.

The access in Eagle Valley always puzzles me, Go on Google Earth and have a look, Absolutely no pedestrian access to Dunnes or the walkover bridge.

Are you from bishopstown?

charlemont

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Are you from bishopstown?

Why ? Should I be ?