Fingal Gone?

Ebbs

bohsman wrote: »

Good to see Shels and Rovers fans showing their class.

Oh please, you're just begging for fans at this stage. Every post from a Bohs fan has been saying how welcome Fingal fans are at Bohs games.

It's always sad to see a club go, Fingal however are not gone. They have no players, similar to Bohs who have only 4 contracted players apparently.

Fingal fans have been very vocal of late about how their club is fully financially backed and how they can live without Gannon. All blatent lies.

I would like no club to go out of existance, but I believe that harshly punishing those who break the rules is what needs to happen. How Fingal didnt look at the Shels model and learn is beyond me. As I say once every one of these debicles occurs, hopefully other clubs will look at Fingal and learn, as they should have done with Rovers, Cork, Derry, Shels and even drogs.

mike65

Is Fingal like MK Dons or something, why the hate? No one should wish to see a club go down the pan.

gimmick

^ They were another club squeezed into an already crowded Dublin LOI scene. They were bankrolled by someone and were paying wages that they could NEVER sustain with the small amount of fans they had. They were just a microcosmeverything that was wrong with the LOI.

I have now heard that Drogs are circling the drain fairly rapidly. What odds a 1 division league next month? I would not bet against at this stage.

I believe we are taking one of their players - Rice or something??

OhNoYouDidn't

mike65 wrote: »

Is Fingal like MK Dons or something, why the hate? No one should wish to see a club go down the pan.

Partially.

But the moodiness is mostly from Shels fans who somehow contrive to blame them for still being crap. New club near their patch etc.

Lamper.sffc

CiaranC wrote: »

You cant say you werent warned.

That said, I hope yous do start again and build properly from the ground up, as I had a lot of time for the community based aspects of the club.

You just needed to realise you have to crawl before you can even walk in this league.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I don't want this to come across as 'I told you so', but offering players 52 week, €1,000 pw contracts without the backing in place was a high risk maneouver and now the downside to that is you have no licence when he didn't materialise.

No reason why you can't rebuild in the 1st or A league on a semi-pro basis.

Thats fine but you wont find any posts by me about any of those issues.

bohsman

CiaranC wrote: »

Bohs fans werent exactly classy during the demise of Rovers and Shels either.

P.S. Youre next cant wait

I know I wasnt the only Bohs/LOI fan to post on both Rovers and Shels forums to wish them the best in their recoveries over the last few years.

gimmick

Sad state of affairs really when every single one of the league winners and cup winners of the last decade have all gone bust, or at least have had severe financial issues...

ShamoBuc

Sad indeed but yet another wake up call for the LOI - not that one was needed to be fair!

dfx-

gimmick wrote: »

Sad state of affairs really when every single one of the league winners and cup winners of the last decade have all gone bust, or at least have had severe financial issues...

It's not really, successful teams spending too much is not a shock. The teams who spend the most win the most. Happens in every league in the world as we were mentioning in the other thread before Dub13 stepped in..

LuckyLloyd

dfx- wrote: »

It's not really, successful teams spending too much is not a shock. The teams who spend the most win the most. Happens in every league in the world as we were mentioning in the other thread before Dub13 stepped in..

Yes, but in the LOI the path to financial ruin and ultimate receivership follows on directly from winning it all. That is not true around the majority of European Leagues, and it would be disingenuous to claim it as the case.

Numerous times now it has been proven that going after it in the LOI spells doom. And yet, after each strike out someone is falling over themselves to step up to the plate.

dfx-

It also follows that teams across the world mortgage on getting success every year. Beit Champions League qualification or otherwise. Beit crippled by banking on non-existent ITV digital money or even stay-in-the-top-division which puts the fear of life into Premiership mid-table boards across the UK, the non-pulling out of a single very rich backer, tv rights, Real selling their training ground which was subject to an investigation afaik, Barcelona crippled under Joan Gaspart and a Rivaldo hat-trick from ruin, Valencia, several La Liga clubs not able to pay their players..Lazio at the turn of the last decade...

It is not a shock to see team who win spend more and mortgage on winning more. LOI suffers the consequences at a much lower debt threshold is the difference.

TangyZizzle

dfx- wrote: »

It also follows that teams across the world mortgage on getting success every year. Beit Champions League qualification or otherwise. Beit crippled by banking on non-existent ITV digital money or even stay-in-the-top-division which puts the fear of life into Premiership mid-table boards across the UK, the non-pulling out of a single very rich backer, tv rights, Real selling their training ground which was subject to an investigation afaik, Barcelona crippled under Joan Gaspart and a Rivaldo hat-trick from ruin, Valencia, several La Liga clubs not able to pay their players..Lazio at the turn of the last decade...

It is not a shock to see team who win spend more and mortgage on winning more. LOI suffers the consequences at a much lower debt threshold is the difference.

Punctuate that and you will have a very good post.

LuckyLloyd

dfx- wrote: »

It also follows that teams across the world mortgage on getting success every year. Beit Champions League qualification or otherwise. Beit crippled by banking on non-existent ITV digital money or even stay-in-the-top-division which puts the fear of life into Premiership mid-table boards across the UK, the non-pulling out of a single very rich backer, tv rights, Real selling their training ground which was subject to an investigation afaik, Barcelona crippled under Joan Gaspart and a Rivaldo hat-trick from ruin, Valencia, several La Liga clubs not able to pay their players..Lazio at the turn of the last decade...

It is not a shock to see team who win spend more and mortgage on winning more. LOI suffers the consequences at a much lower debt threshold is the difference.

And as such, the LOI shouldn't engage in the same practices.

CiaranC

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

And as such, the LOI shouldn't engage in the same practices.

Easier said than done. The pressure that comes on the boards to add to existing success is enormous. You are basically investing your trust in a handful of guys not to give in to it.

stovelid

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

And as such, the LOI shouldn't engage in the same practices.

While I agree with what you say about LOI, it's depressing (and lowers the moral ground somewhat) to rationalise that huge debt and chronic financial mismanagement is OK because you can finance the repayments or, for a small number of clubs, tout yourself as a plaything to the Gulf plutocracy if the shit hits the fan.

And if one of the arguably 10 biggest clubs in England nearly ceased to exist and ended up in the lower leagues, I don't see why it's a given EPL clubs will always be saved by the bell.

stovelid

bohsman wrote: »

Good to see Shels and Rovers fans showing their class.

Even now, any negative mention of Rovers gets the thanks tag-teams beating each other off on here. If we ever get into trouble again, I wouldn't expect an ounce of sympathy from anybody.

I'm sorry for the Fingal supporters as I already said.

bohsman

stovelid wrote: »

Even now, any negative mention of Rovers gets the thanks tag-teams beating each other off on here. If we ever get into trouble again, I wouldn't expect an ounce of sympathy from anybody.

I'm sorry for the Fingal supporters as I already said.

I dont really count you as a Rovers fan tbh. :pac:

darragh16

Its time the FAI actually do something about the finances of the league and the teams. I know its not great to see the association getting involved in a teams financial affairs but the amount of clubs going bust or on the brink in the past 5 or 6 years is terrible.

Every time a team does well (win a cup or league) their overheads increase and they go bust. The same cycle continues with no supervision from the top. If they introduced certain criteria on spending (not sure if they already do) like UEFA are, or something like making all teams semi-professional, wage cap, ticket price cap to ensure good crowds, something to encourage any type of investment.

It will improve the league, the clubs, the players and maybe even the National side.

CiaranC

darragh16 wrote: »

If they introduced certain criteria on spending (not sure if they already do)

They do. Wages are capped at 65% of income. It hasnt helped. Partly because they havent been robust enough in enforcing it, and partly because the clubs have been outrageously flouting it.

The problem remains, as it has for thirty or forty years now, income. If we cannot attract fans through the gates, we cannot survive.

djpbarry

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Sad indeed but yet another wake up call for the LOI - not that one was needed to be fair!

This isn’t a wake-up call by any stretch of the imagination – anyone with an ounce of sense could see that the Fingal model was totally unsustainable.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Numerous times now it has been proven that going after it in the LOI spells doom. And yet, after each strike out someone is falling over themselves to step up to the plate.

It is an utterly baffling situation. What irked me in particular about the Fingal situation was the way the media took to them and put them on a pedestal as some sort of example to be followed, when it was painfully obvious that the whole thing was being built from the top down. It’s pretty difficult to know how to combat this self-destructive mentality – as dfx- says, the ‘spend to win’ philosophy is ubiquitous in football. UEFA’s new guidelines that will force clubs to omit sugar-daddy donations from their current account balancing is a step in the right direction, but I’m absolutely convinced that clubs will find a loophole.

_blank_

But, but, who am I going to hate now?

Never sustainable, always going to end in tears. Franchise Football just doesn't work.

Lamper.sffc

djpbarry wrote: »

This isn’t a wake-up call by any stretch of the imagination – anyone with an ounce of sense could see that the Fingal model was totally unsustainable.

The problem as I see it was not us spending money on players when we had it, it was that we tried to maintain that after Gannon went. Which is something we never should have done imo. We should have cut back and not gambled with the future of the club. We should have done everything in our power to reduce our costs and try and survive. In the same way Bray did and others will have to do.

The idea was always going to be that we would have to survive without gannons and other sponsors money eventually. It just came earlier than expected.
I had hope and expected when this money was no longer available we would cut our cloth accordingly. Unfortunately this doesnt seem to be the case.

Just my two cents worth.

super_furry

That's the thing. If any League of Ireland club had a sugar-daddy willing to pump in the cash, as Gannon did, then they'd snap their hands off. However once that source of income dries up then you have to cut your cloth accordingly, not trundle along spending at the same level and hoping something will come along.

Zebra3

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Partially.

But the moodiness is mostly from Shels fans who somehow contrive to blame them for still being crap. New club near their patch etc.

Bull****.

We're fully aware of the fact that problems within our club were internally created.

BOHtox

It's terrible to see any team go bust and Fingal is no different to me.
In fairness they spent ridiculous amounts of money when they've no fans.
I know Bohs aren't exactly managing their money to well but al least we've assets. Fingal had a short successful life. It's better to live one day as a lion than a hundred years as a lamb. I hope, somehow, you'll get a parttime or so team together in time for the new season. Best o' luck from a Bohs fan,

BOHtox

dreamers75

****ers still managed to win the cup

dfx-

CiaranC wrote: »

Easier said than done. The pressure that comes on the boards to add to existing success is enormous. You are basically investing your trust in a handful of guys not to give in to it.

It's especially difficult when a team is winning, more fans will not examine what they're doing closely enough..

There are so many examples that I left out Leeds, Portsmouth and Spurs are suddenly flashing £30m to any club in Spain willing to take it.

Des wrote: »

But, but, who am I going to hate now?

Des, you're a Shels fan...it won't take long :pac:

CiaranC

BOHtox wrote: »

I know Bohs aren't exactly managing their money to well but al least we've assets.

You keep saying that like its a good thing.

BOHtox

CiaranC wrote: »

You keep saying that like its a good thing.

Oh yes having assets is such a terrible thing. I wish we had no assets and all this debt. Good man Ciaran, good man

stovelid

BOHtox wrote: »

Oh yes having assets is such a terrible thing. I wish we had no assets and all this debt. Good man Ciaran, good man

To be honest, that sums up the problem with the league. The idea that OTT spending is fine because in an emergency you can sell your own (and only) ground out from under you to square up would seem ludicrous elsewhere.

BOHtox

stovelid wrote: »

To be honest, that sums up the problem with the league. The idea that OTT spending is fine because in an emergency you can sell your own (and only) ground out from under you to square up would seem ludicrous elsewhere.

Overspending is not okay at all. It's just the fact we have an asset puts us in a better position.

SantryRed

BOHtox wrote: »

Overspending is not okay at all. It's just the fact we have an asset puts us in a better position.

Irony is the assets are what got you into the mess in the first place.

BOHtox

SantryRed wrote: »

Irony is the assets are what got you into the mess in the first place.

It is a bit. haha

Walsh

Happy Days. FTA

dreamers75

I hope O Neil signs for Rovers :pac: he can go for 4 in a row then.

Gavin "shels"

Paulw wrote: »

No, not by a long shot. Very much still there, alive and kicking. Playing a friendly tomorrow against Shels and then ready for the cup game next Monday.

Bit too soon there Paul.


Nothing will be learned from this, we've had Dublin City, and now we've Fingal, and yet the FAI will probably support the next franchise who rolls up with their big investor. Watch the door on your way out lads!

stovelid

Walsh wrote: »

Happy Days. FTA

Fairly Terrible Attitude?

Lamper.sffc

Gavin shels wrote: »

Bit too soon there Paul.


Nothing will be learned from this, we've had Dublin City, and now we've Fingal, and yet the FAI will probably support the next franchise who rolls up with their big investor. Watch the door on your way out lads!

Are you sure thats not close the door on your way out or watch the door doesnt hit you on the way out.

Jesus Gav. After praying for this every night and day for last 3 years, you think you would have gotten your final dig correct. :rolleyes:

Ruined it now. haha

Gavin "shels"

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

Are you sure thats not close the door on your way out or watch the door doesnt hit you on the way out.

Jesus Gav. After praying for this every night and day for last 3 years, you think you would have gotten your final dig correct. :rolleyes:

Ruined it now. haha

Awh well, you're always welcome in Tolka or when we do eventually move to Dalyer or Morton you can pop along if you want Lamper.;)

Hope you keep posting around here btw, we've had plenty of banter and well you may be a fecker but at least you know what it's like to be a LoI fan.

aidan24326

darragh16 wrote: »

...or something like making all teams semi-professional, wage cap, ticket price cap to ensure good crowds, something to encourage any type of investment.

Good suggestions, I think a return to a mainly semi-pro format looks inevitable as full-time professionalism clearly hasn't worked, and the clubs simply can't afford it. The attendances are not there to justify it. It makes no sense at all for a club like SF to be operating as a full-time professional club on crowds of a few hundred.

Gavin "shels"

darragh16 wrote: »

If they introduced certain criteria on spending (not sure if they already do) like UEFA are, or something like making all teams semi-professional, wage cap, ticket price cap to ensure good crowds, something to encourage any type of investment.

Not sure if someones answered you 100%, but I will.

I'm not aware of any team that has a full squad of full-time players, some clubs have one or two and the likes. There are even some teams in the 1st Division who afaik are amateur.

There is a wage cap of 65% of income, clubs like Fingal got around that by having it as a "donation". And clubs like Derry just offered players two contracts.

There is a ticket price cap afaik, FAI has the upmost price that be charged set, not sure what it is but probably like €20 for an adult ticket and €10 for a child or something along them lines.

Pauleta

Are there any fully pro teams left? I thought Bohs and Fingal were the only ones left last year.

S.R.F.C.

Pauleta wrote: »

Are there any fully pro teams left? I thought Bohs and Fingal were the only ones left last year.

Sligo i believe.

Gavin "shels"

Pauleta wrote: »

Are there any fully pro teams left? I thought Bohs and Fingal were the only ones left last year.

They were afaik. I only know of 1 player in the whole LoI who is on full-time pay and it's in the 1st Division.:eek:

S.R.F.C. wrote: »

Sligo i believe.

Pure_Cork

gimmick wrote: »

I believe we are taking one of their players - Rice or something??

They'll need to take a reality check on the money that's on offer. We told one of their players who recently signed a new contract with them that we weren't prepared to pay him anywhere near what he was looking for. It's funny that in a recession with so many Irish people (incl. Irish footballers) looking for work we've actually had to look at bringing players in from abroad to bolster our squad because they're more affordable.

shanec1928

Gavin shels wrote: »

Not sure if someones answered you 100%, but I will.

I'm not aware of any team that has a full squad of full-time players, some clubs have one or two and the likes. There are even some teams in the 1st Division who afaik are amateur.

There is a wage cap of 65% of income, clubs like Fingal got around that by having it as a "donation". And clubs like Derry just offered players two contracts.

There is a ticket price cap afaik, FAI has the upmost price that be charged set, not sure what it is but probably like €20 for an adult ticket and €10 for a child or something along them lines.

we are and have being since we came back to the premier.we lost our only part time player not so long ago.

doncarlos

aidan24326 wrote: »

Good suggestions, I think a return to a mainly semi-pro format looks inevitable as full-time professionalism clearly hasn't worked, and the clubs simply can't afford it. The attendances are not there to justify it. It makes no sense at all for a club like SF to be operating as a full-time professional club on crowds of a few hundred.

Hate when people say this.

Full time football DOES work. Paying more money than you can afford does not. Big difference.

doncarlos

Gavin shels wrote: »

I'm not aware of any team that has a full squad of full-time players

Dundalk players are on full-time 42 week contracts except for Eoghan Osbourne who is on an amateur contract as he's at college.

dreamers75

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...t-2533347.html

Wonder Rovers will sign the 3 of them :eek:

stovelid

The homilies about professional and part-time are well meaning but misplaced. The technical difference between is that you get paid for the full year or just the season. You can offer part-time contracts that don't necessitate players having to work outside football during the season.

The issue in LOI has been that the amount that constitutes adequate professional wages has been grossly inflated and not in line with the revenue coming into the clubs. So people urging a return to part-time contracts (which the majority of clubs offer anyway) should be really saying pay players what you can realistically afford to pay.

dreamers75 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...t-2533347.html

Wonder Rovers will sign the 3 of them :eek:

Have four strikers already. Can't see GON being a target.