Fingal Gone?

dan1895

Was at the two games in tolka in 2007, both cracking games but I don't remember any trouble or many ramblers fans. Think one of the games was a tuesday and therefore a lower than usual atendance.

pablomakaveli

celticutd87 wrote: »

Ya cobh does have a few scumbags but from my recollection shels are hardly a bunch of angels. The amount of times shels have been to cobh and cobh have been up to dublin there were numerous attacks by shels fans.

I saw two shels lads get of a train a few years ago on their way to a shels-cobh match down in cobh and they were roaring drunk and throwing up all over the place so that wouldn't suprise me either.

CSF

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I saw two shels lads get of a train a few years ago on their way to a shels-cobh match down in cobh and they were roaring drunk and throwing up all over the place so that wouldn't suprise me either.

Do you realise what you sound like there?

TangyZizzle

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I saw two shels lads get of a train a few years ago on their way to a shels-cobh match down in cobh and they were roaring drunk and throwing up all over the place so that wouldn't suprise me either.

They came from the train, Joe! Drunk as skunks, Joe!

pablomakaveli

CSF wrote: »

Do you realise what you sound like there?

If i'd added "and their all like that" then you'd be right, but i didn't.

TangyZizzle

pablomakaveli wrote: »

If i'd added "and their all like that" then you'd be right, but i didn't.

Naaah, you didn't say that.. you didn't say anything relatively CLOSE to that..

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I saw two shels lads get of a train a few years ago on their way to a shels-cobh match down in cobh and they were roaring drunk and throwing up all over the place so that wouldn't suprise me either.

:cool:

Pineapple stu

dreamers75 wrote: »

Our Commercial Manager left us for Fingal, his 1st day was monday his last today :eek:

Wrong, he had already left Pats. He didnt leave Pats to go to Fingal.

CSF

pablomakaveli wrote: »

If i'd added "and their all like that" then you'd be right, but i didn't.

I think you're missing the point entirely. Being drunk and a bit boisterous does not equal attacking people.

pablomakaveli

TangyZizzle wrote: »

Naaah, you didn't say that.. you didn't say anything relatively CLOSE to that..



:cool:

So you're saying they have no scumbags supporters at all. Wow what a perfect little world your living in.

TangyZizzle

pablomakaveli wrote: »

So you're saying they have no scumbags supporters at all. Wow what a perfect little world your living in.

You'd want to get your mind-reading licence renewed, mate.

CSF

pablomakaveli wrote: »

So you're saying they have no scumbags supporters at all. Wow what a perfect little world your living in.

I'm not here to judge the personalities of every individual Shels fan, but since we've dropped down to the First Division(not that we were ever bad), there aren't any instances of opposition fans or locals being attacked at our home or away games. We've a few 14/15 year old scrotes who'll sometimes act a bit hard, but they certainly wouldn't have the balls to throw a punch. Harmless wannabeism is the most we have.

pablomakaveli

TangyZizzle wrote: »

You'd want to get your mind-reading licence renewed, mate.

You obviously never got yours in the first place since you assumed i thought all shels fans were scumbags.

Anyway if people say there was no trouble at the shels-cobh match in tolka, fair enough.

CSF

pablomakaveli wrote: »

You obviously never got yours in the first place since you assumed i thought all shels fans were scumbags.

Anyway if people say there was no trouble at the shels-cobh match in tolka, fair enough.

So you don't want to back up any implications that we do have scumbags attacking people?

pablomakaveli

CSF wrote: »

So you don't want to back up any implications that we do have scumbags attacking people?

I wasn't the one who claimed there people being attacked.

CSF

pablomakaveli wrote: »

I wasn't the one who claimed there people being attacked.

No but you did accuse someone of perfect little world for thinking that isn't happening.

dreamers75

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Wrong, he had already left Pats. He didnt leave Pats to go to Fingal.

Wrong, phil left us for fingal.

http://stpatsfc.com/news.php?id=4115

Seriously back under the bridge your fun has ended.

TangyZizzle

pablomakaveli wrote: »

You obviously never got yours in the first place since you assumed i thought all shels fans were scumbags.

Anyway if people say there was no trouble at the shels-cobh match in tolka, fair enough.

I never tried to read your mind, I merely read between the lines of your post.

There's scumbags in Drumcondra, some of them drink too :eek:

Happy?

pablomakaveli

CSF wrote: »

No but you did accuse someone of perfect little world for thinking that isn't happening.

No i said that he didn't think ye don't have any scumbag supporters at all. You even said yourself theres a few youngfellas that act the maggot.

I never said anything about people being attacked was true. You're really trying to twist my words and find meaning thats not there.

CSF

pablomakaveli wrote: »

No i said that he didn't think ye don't have any scumbag supporters at all. You even said yourself theres a few youngfellas that act the maggot.

I never said anything about people being attacked was true. You're really trying to twist my words and find meaning thats not there.

Well no, I'm not trying to twist your words, just the person you said that too had made no implication that Shels had no idiots/scangers (whatever you wanna call them) so in that sense it was a pretty weird and random thing to say if you weren't implying something more sinister.

pablomakaveli

CSF wrote: »

Well no, I'm not trying to twist your words, just the person you said that too had made no implication that Shels had no idiots/scangers (whatever you wanna call them) so in that sense it was a pretty weird and random thing to say if you weren't implying something more sinister.

Well given he was accusing me of tarring all shels fans with the same brush it wasn't.

dfx-

I think I preferred it when Shels fans were going after Fingal...

Looking forward to the game next week CSF?

born2bwild

baz2009 wrote: »

To the Fingal fans - will ye supports another LoI team or just be a neutral?

Nah..I'm just gonna sit in a darkened room pouring cheap whiskey down my throat from my SFFC mug.

CSF

dfx- wrote: »

I think I preferred it when Shels fans were going after Fingal...

Looking forward to the game next week CSF?

The footballing part yes, no better team to test ourselves against than the champions. The probable sh*te we'll have to deal with before and after it, not so much. Hopefully it gos down without incident.

CSF

born2bwild wrote: »

Nah..I'm just gonna sit in a darkened room pouring cheap whiskey down my throat from my SFFC mug.

March 4th, Shelbourne v Waterford.

born2bwild

CSF wrote: »

March 4th, Shelbourne v Waterford.

I was at your 1-2 loss to them last October. Thought I was looking possible opponents for 2011. Arse. I am not a happy camper.

Lamper.sffc

Meltdown of thread begins. Time to close methinks. All the best lads.

Gavin "shels"

Ebbs wrote: »

Pat Flynn works, others are in college for the most part.

Well if Pat Flynn works, that makes it two, as Pat Flynn wasn't the player I was on about.

celticutd87 wrote: »

Ya cobh does have a few scumbags but from my recollection shels are hardly a bunch of angels. The amount of times shels have been to cobh and cobh have been up to dublin there were numerous attacks by shels fans.

Already answered, but I've never seen more than 8 Cobh Fans in Tolka for a match.

Ebbs

Gavin shels wrote: »

Well if Pat Flynn works, that makes it two, as Pat Flynn wasn't the player I was on about.

He did last season anyway, since he resigned I havnt seen him working but thats just speculation :P Who's the other?

As for the thread; as a rovers fan on my moral high ground, I can safely say both clubs have a handful of undesirable fans But thats life.

Gavin "shels"

Ebbs wrote: »

He did last season anyway, since he resigned I havnt seen him working but thats just speculation :P Who's the other?

Graham Barrett, he was getting paid by the FAI. Head of Coaching in Wicklow Schoolboys or something along those lines was his job description afaik.

Pineapple stu

dreamers75 wrote: »

Wrong, phil left us for fingal.

http://stpatsfc.com/news.php?id=4115

Seriously back under the bridge your fun has ended.

Read your forum. He only joined Fingal last week .

djpbarry

CSF wrote: »

I'm hardly lauding the Fingal model here. But they're also not alone in their problems, just don't have the fans to drag them out of it.

Every single club in the LOI has a basal level of income that they can be virtually guaranteed to receive every season, be it from season ticket sales, TV money, sponsorship, or whatever. Why can’t clubs budget so that they spend less than they receive (and preferably reinvest the profit in the club’s infrastructure)? Why is that so difficult to achieve?

_blank_

Pineapple stu wrote: »

Wrong, he had already left Pats. He didnt leave Pats to go to Fingal.

you going back to supporting ucd?

geeky

djpbarry wrote: »

Every single club in the LOI has a basal level of income that they can be virtually guaranteed to receive every season, be it from season ticket sales, TV money, sponsorship, or whatever. Why can’t clubs budget so that they spend less than they receive (and preferably reinvest the profit in the club’s infrastructure)? Why is that so difficult to achieve?

It's a very good question, but not just confined to the LOI. I think fan pressure - or perceived fan pressure - has a lot to do with it here. Clubs reckon that, to build a really solid business, they need to be the dominant team in the country, which leads to undue financial risk taking. The alternative is that these clubs are run by egomaniacs or people who just don't know what they're doing.

OhNoYouDidn't

djpbarry wrote: »

Every single club in the LOI has a basal level of income that they can be virtually guaranteed to receive every season, be it from season ticket sales, TV money, sponsorship, or whatever. Why can’t clubs budget so that they spend less than they receive (and preferably reinvest the profit in the club’s infrastructure)? Why is that so difficult to achieve?

You could ask the same about most teams in any league in any sport.

The LoI is no better or worse than any other pro league, or other Irish sport

celticutd87

Fingal had good ambition fair enough but i suppose it goes to show that you cant rely on a wealthy backer who may pull out at any minute.

Now im not gonna criticise them because my team cobh ramblers came very close to the wall when we went beyond our means 2 years ago after promotion and we got demoted. Id be fairly fearful if we came up because our team is full of ameteur teens who arent being paid. Manager is only one getting paid. Up the ramblers!

djpbarry

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

You could ask the same about most teams in any league in any sport.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that, but it's beside the point - the fact that other sports clubs are doing a **** job of managing their finances doesn't take away from the fact that keeping expenditure below income levels shouldn't be all that difficult. It's common sense for any business.

Het-Field

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

You could ask the same about most teams in any league in any sport.

The LoI is no better or worse than any other pro league, or other Irish sport

But why does the LOI have teams going to the wall on an almost seasonal basis ? This does not include clubs like Cork City, Shelbourne, Drogheda United, Derry City, and Bohemians, who were punished with relegation, or their financial situation was so bad that relegation was a guarantee.

Id like to know how many major league football superpowers have a league which is as financially precarious as ours. To suggest that the manner in which the aformentioned teams have operated is ultimately the same as Man United or Real Madrid would be ludicrious.

CiaranC

Het-Field wrote: »

To suggest that the manner in which the aformentioned teams have operated is ultimately the same as Man United or Real Madrid would be ludicrious.

Both those teams have hundreds of times the debt of any LOI team.

iregk

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

You could ask the same about most teams in any league in any sport.

The LoI is no better or worse than any other pro league, or other Irish sport

Exactly. Why are all English premiership teams in the red? They simply spend more than they earn chasing success in the hope of massive financial reward.

Het-Field

CiaranC wrote: »

Both those teams have hundreds of times the debt of any LOI team.

Unlike many LOI teams they have

-Huge property assets
-Playing staff worth Hundereds of Millions
-A regular influx of revenue due to participate in the Champions League
-A regular influx of decent domestic prize money.
-Huge international following, and all the ancilliary merchandising benefits which come with it.
-Weekly attendances of almost 70,000 punters per week
-Domestic merchandising


Their model is more sustainable then that of many League of Ireland clubs. To break these teams, you would have to break all the aformentioned positive traits. The likes of Shelbourne used the Real Madrid model, but were never going to be in the position to service their debts, as their fanbase was mainly from North-County Dublin, the playing assets were good, but not worth the money required to pull Shelbourne from the mire. Equally, the attendances were not great, the prize money on offer was not great, and the chances of Champions League qualifications were poor.

When you look at the situations that prevailed at Bohemians and Shelbourne, and that at Rea Madrid and Man Utd, you will see that they are rather different, and cannot be compared.

OhNoYouDidn't

Het-Field wrote: »

But why does the LOI have teams going to the wall on an almost seasonal basis ? This does not include clubs like Cork City, Shelbourne, Drogheda United, Derry City, and Bohemians, who were punished with relegation, or their financial situation was so bad that relegation was a guarantee.

Very few LoI clubs acually do go to the wall though. They get through, which is the experience for 99% of professional sports teams. The fact the FAI are taking action against miscreants is a good thing.

Dublin City are the only LoI team to go completely bust in living memory. And that was a strange setup

Het-Field wrote: »

Id like to know how many major league football superpowers have a league which is as financially precarious as ours. To suggest that the manner in which the aformentioned teams have operated is ultimately the same as Man United or Real Madrid would be ludicrious.

Its not. The principal is the same. Clubs are using money they don't have to chase success. The only difference is the ability of Man U and Real Madrid to borrow more or stave off creditors.

The English pyramid is littered with financial casualties, from the top flight to the regional leagues. So is Scotland. As is Italy. As is Spain.

Three GAA county boards have gone bust and been bailed out in the last couple of years, including Hurling cup final winners Tipp last year. Its not even unique to football.

OhNoYouDidn't

Het-Field wrote: »

Unlike many LOI teams they have

-Huge property assets
-Playing staff worth Hundereds of Millions
-A regular influx of revenue due to participate in the Champions League
-A regular influx of decent domestic prize money.
-Huge international following, and all the ancilliary merchandising benefits which come with it.
-Weekly attendances of almost 70,000 punters per week
-Domestic merchandising


Their model is more sustainable then that of many League of Ireland clubs. To break these teams, you would have to break all the aformentioned positive traits. The likes of Shelbourne used the Real Madrid model, but were never going to be in the position to service their debts, as their fanbase was mainly from North-County Dublin, the playing assets were good, but not worth the money required to pull Shelbourne from the mire. Equally, the attendances were not great, the prize money on offer was not great, and the chances of Champions League qualifications were poor.

When you look at the situations that prevailed at Bohemians and Shelbourne, and that at Rea Madrid and Man Utd, you will see that they are rather different, and cannot be compared.

The only difference is scale.

Bohs owe €4m. Man United owe £700m.

Bohs owe about a years turnover. Man United about 3.

Bohs own an asset worh about 5 times their debt. Man United own an asset valued at about 1% of theirs.

So I suppose you are right. The situations are not comparable. English clubs are run far worse.

stovelid

I should apply the EPL supporter justification of overspending to my own life. To wit: it's fine to run up astronomical levels of debt that I will probably never, ever clear off because I can meet the repayments.

The idea that the EPL bubble economy will never burst is also presumptious. Anybody here of a certain age can remember even teams like United with 20k at games and I don't see why we automatically assume that this won't ever be the case again.

If a club like Leeds can hit the wall, so can others, even at the highest level. The fact of the matter here is that about five or six of the biggest clubs in the world are always being held up as an example on here - just as the same clubs are always used to define what consitutes football to the millions and millions of other supporters in the world.

There's also a few LOI supporters (basically from two clubs) on here that are of the opinion that because their own precious clubs are now stuck in the first division - through no other fault than their own - that nobody should ever support LOI again.

Pure_Cork

stovelid wrote: »

There's also a few LOI supporters (basically from two clubs) on here that are of the opinion that because their own precious clubs are now stuck in the first division - through no other fault than their own - that nobody should ever support LOI again.

What fans of what clubs are you talking about?

djpbarry

Het-Field wrote: »

But why does the LOI have teams going to the wall on an almost seasonal basis ?

As opposed to the UK, for example? Clubs in the lower leagues across the water run into financial difficulties all the time, but it doesn’t make headlines because they’re not in the Premiership. Hell, even Portsmouth running into serious difficulty last season doesn’t seem to have prompted any sort of major debate.

Gavin "shels"

Ebbs wrote: »

Pat Flynn works, others are in college for the most part.

Just on this, any idea what he does? Nearly sure I seen him after college in the Londis just off the Belgard Rd making up a Powerade drink stand.

stovelid

Gavin shels wrote: »

Just on this, any idea what he does? Nearly sure I seen him after college in the Londis just off the Belgard Rd making up a Powerade drink stand.

Think he works for Coca-Cola.

Gavin "shels"

stovelid wrote: »

Think he works for Coca-Cola.

Must have been him so.

LuckyLloyd

djpbarry wrote: »

As opposed to the UK, for example? Clubs in the lower leagues across the water run into financial difficulties all the time, but it doesn’t make headlines because they’re not in the Premiership. Hell, even Portsmouth running into serious difficulty last season doesn’t seem to have prompted any sort of major debate.

The correlation between winning competitions and getting into severe financial difficulty is much higher over here though. This stuff is happening to our most successful clubs on the pitch. Over and over and over.

dfx-

djpbarry wrote: »

As opposed to the UK, for example? Clubs in the lower leagues across the water run into financial difficulties all the time, but it doesn’t make headlines because they’re not in the Premiership. Hell, even Portsmouth running into serious difficulty last season doesn’t seem to have prompted any sort of major debate.

A constant flow even

Luton, Leicester, Southampton, Portsmouth...

Halifax 2008
Rotherham 2008
Southampton 2008
Luton 2008
Stockport 2009
Salisbury 2009
Bournemouth 2008
Darlington 2009
Chester 2009
Crystal Palace 2010
Portsmouth 2010

http://thisispop.wordpress.com/2010/01/19/football-clubs-in-administration-maps-and-stats/