Bootlegs

Konata

This thread is for the discussion of bootlegged DVDs - a discussion which was sparked off by my unintentional purchase of a "bootleg" version of Haruhi Suzumiya. Original post in the "What are you watching thread?":

Aaaaaaand my Haruhi DVD has possibly the worst subtitle track of all time. According to it, her name is Lianggong Chunri and that's one of the less irritating things... >_<

And might I add that I do not in any way condone the act of pirating, downloading or whatever.

Numina

Konata wrote: »

Aaaaaaand my Haruhi DVD has possibly the worst subtitle track of all time. According to it, her name is Lianggong Chunri and that's one of the less irritating things... >_<

Is the DVD legit or is it some Taiwanese bootleg?

Konata

Numina wrote: »

Is the DVD legit or is it some Taiwanese bootleg?

Legit lol, can't afford that shít :P

I think it came from Malaysia - I've bought a good dozen or so DVDs from there and they've all been almost perfect quality/subtitles but this one is just fúcking awful.

Espers = ET >_< I'd laugh if I wasn't so sad that it sucks

Numina

And what about downloading, how viable an option is that for you? Because if you're not going to pay the powers you shouldn't be paying at all.

Konata

I know but I like having DVDs Downloaded a subtitle file but it skips the "sponsered by" bit and even when you set the subtitle track back it eventually speeds up and jumps ahead. Bleurgh.

D4RK ONION

Numina wrote: »

And what about downloading, how viable an option is that for you? Because if you're not going to pay the powers you shouldn't be paying at all.

Believe it or not, not everyone has 60/70 odd euro to spend on getting the legit DVDs for every series they want to watch. IMO, non-legit > illegal DL. At least with the non-legit you get what you pay for, a basic disc with some half decent subtitling and no extra features at all.

There'll always be that opportunity to upgrade in the future. DL-ing gets you everything for nothing. I don't think the two are comparable, morally or otherwise.

gearoidof

why not just burn the downloads... Morally, downloading and buying bootlegs are exactly the same, there is absolutely no way DLs are different from bootlegs, except that 1 has higher transport costs...

At least when you DL, you know what the quality is like.

cherryghost

80% of Anime is legal to download here anyway thanks to most of them not having licences in Europe/US apart from the obvious ones

K.O.Kiki

cherryghost wrote: »

80% of Anime is legal to download here anyway thanks to most of them not having licences in Europe/US apart from the obvious ones

I'm not ENTIRELY sure that's how it works.

Then again, my justification for torrenting episodes is that it's the 21st-century equivalent of trading VHS tapes of TV shows.

Cy_Revenant

D4RK ONION wrote: »

Believe it or not, not everyone has 60/70 odd euro to spend on getting the legit DVDs for every series they want to watch. IMO, non-legit > illegal DL. At least with the non-legit you get what you pay for, a basic disc with some half decent subtitling and no extra features at all.

There'll always be that opportunity to upgrade in the future. DL-ing gets you everything for nothing. I don't think the two are comparable, morally or otherwise.

I can't agree with this at all. The reason why you should buy official releases rather than downloading isn't because there is some moral issue over getting something for nothing. It's about giving something back to the creators of the work and supporting the industry. Don't fall into this moral trap of thinking that just because you've paid for it, you're somehow better than someone who just pirated it themselves.

If you download, you get a high quality product for nothing. You don't contribute anything to the creators. Legally you are stealing. Morally you're not rewarding the creators.

If you buy a bootleg DVD, you spend money to get a bad product. You still don't contribute anything to the creators. Legally speaking, you are buying an illegal product and are still in breach of the same IP law. If anything, morally you're standing on worse ground. As you're paying someone to pirate it for you. They just deliver a far worse product than you'd have gotten had you pirated it yourself. You are not supporting the anime industry, but you are supporting the bootleg industry.

If you buy a legitimate DVD, in most cases you get a decent quality product and you contribute towards the creators and distributors. Supporting the industry, etc.

tl;dr - People who buy bootlegs are worse than pirates.

Art_Wolf

K.O.Kiki wrote:

cherryghost wrote:

80% of Anime is legal to download here anyway thanks to most of them not having licences in Europe/US apart from the obvious ones

I'm not ENTIRELY sure that's how it works.

Cy_Revenant wrote: »

Legally speaking, you are buying an illegal product and are still in breach of the same IP law.

To be totally clear, both Japan and Ireland are members of the World Intellectual Property Organization and so IP registered in Japan is protected in Ireland. Having a license to sell a product in Ireland is a separate issue but it does not mean you can ignore the IP

Cy_Revenant wrote: »

People who buy bootlegs are worse than pirates.

Definitely - bootlegging is terrible and you should put those people out of the business of profiting from pirating.

Konata

See, I don't know if the anime DVDs I buy are bootlegs are not. The only one that has been a bit dodgy is this Haruhi one. I usually search for DVDs on eBay and buy the cheapest from there - most of them come from Malaysia.

They all have properly designed covers and DVD menus and all that sorta stuff. They're not like pirated films I've seen before - blank DVDs in cases with photocopied covers, that sorta thing.

Maybe I've been totally naive all this time but I just thought I was buying the Malaysian releases of the DVDs

ztoical

On the download vs bootleg argument I'd be happier downloading fan scanlations/subs then some bootlegged dvd from god knows where. Most of the online downloads it's fans putting them out there, with bootlegs you don't who you are supporting. While downloading is not legal for any of the material unless licenced by the website offering the download, if it is material that has not been sold to a market outside of Japan the company that holds the copyright doesn't really give a toss and is unlikely to presue esp as most fans who do the fan subs are pretty good at removing material if it the rights have been sold overseas or will at least remove earlier eps if it's a show like say one piece that is at number 200 odd and is going to take several years if ever to catch up.

Konata wrote: »

Maybe I've been totally naive all this time but I just thought I was buying the Malaysian releases of the DVDs

Does it have a region code listed on it? Malayasia is region 3, if it's region free there's a high chance it's a bootleg.

Konata

ztoical wrote: »

Does it have a region code listed on it? Malayasia is region 3, if it's region free there's a high chance it's a bootleg.

Aye, they're all Region Free. Here's the Clannad DVD I bought a while ago.

Cy_Revenant

Konata wrote: »

Aye, they're all Region Free. Here's the Clannad DVD I bought a while ago.

Seeing that many episodes, plus the movie, plus the OST all in one box for that price would tip me off that something is not right. They wouldn't even release an edition like that in Japan.

If I were to give you a definite answer as to whether is is legit or not, I'd be lying. I don't believe I know. Though I strongly suspect it's a knockoff.

cherryghost

Cy_Revenant wrote: »

Seeing that many episodes, plus the movie, plus the OST all in one box for that price would tip me off that something is not right. They wouldn't even release an edition like that in Japan.

If I were to give you a definite answer as to whether is is legit or not, I'd be lying. I don't believe I know. Though I strongly suspect it's a knockoff.

Yeah, it's probably not

Authentic/Genuine Malaysia Edition.

Hybridchild

Art_Wolf wrote: »

Definitely - bootlegging is terrible and you should put those people out of the business of profiting from pirating.

Yes bootlegging is both highly illegal and highly immoral and I think it really sends a bad message that the moderator of one of the most trafficed anime and manga forums in the country would promote an action that is not only illegal but damages the anime industry.

As for the Clanned DVD set no anime company allows licensors to release region free DVD's. AnimEigo got in big trouble with a couple of companies for releasing region free DVD's. Once of which was TBS, who who the Clanned licence, when they released region free Urusei Yatsura DVD's.

The reason for this is to prevent the reverse importation of anime DVD's back to Japan at a fraction of the Japanese cost.

Konata

I am in no way advocating bootlegging here.

I think I've made it pretty clear that I wasn't aware that what I was buying were "pirated" copies or whatever. I'm living on a tiny amount of social welfare a week and can't afford to buy brand new copies of DVDs from amazon or wherever. I started searching eBay for DVDs to see if I could get them a bit cheaper there - and these Malaysian ones are what I stumbled upon.

If I wanted to pirate stuff intentionally I'd just download it. I thought I was getting some form of a proper DVD here but I guess I was wrong. I'm not all that savvy on DVD laws or whatever.

It's really not fair of you to say that I'm promoting bootlegs and I'd prefer if you didn't make such remarks.

Hybridchild

Konata wrote: »

Legit lol, can't afford that shít :P

I think it came from Malaysia - I've bought a good dozen or so DVDs from there and they've all been almost perfect quality/subtitles but this one is just fúcking awful.

Espers = ET >_< I'd laugh if I wasn't so sad that it sucks

That reads as if your advocting bootlegs but just finding issue with this one set. That may not have been your intention but its how it comes across.

As for your income I go to college on social welfare while living alone and I have over 500 anime DVD's. One thing you have to remember is that entertainment is a privlidge not a right and like any privlidge if you cant afford it theres no reason you should have it.

Konata

Hybridchild wrote: »

That reads as if your advocting bootlegs but just finding issue with this one set. That may not have been your intention but its how it comes across.

As for your income I go to college on social welfare while living alone and I have over 500 anime DVD's. One thing you have to remember is that entertainment is a privlidge not a right and like any privlidge if you cant afford it theres no reason you should have it.

Nope, because before this discussion, as I have stated already, I was unaware that what I was purchasing WERE bootleg DVDs. I have since become more informed.

And I'm sorry but you have no idea what sort of expenses I have to occur on a weekly basis. That's great that you can afford DVDs but I have a lot of other costs which come first. Forgive me for attempting to shop around to find a good price before making a purchase.

For the record, I didn't get this job as a moderator because I have a perfect knowledge of the ins and outs of the workings of the anime industry. I don't know everything, as evidenced, and I'm learning more on this issue from the posts in this thread.

gearoidof

but what will you do now that you've been informed?

Konata

Gonna have to think about that now of course.

K.O.Kiki

LOL Japanese prices.

They're a fvcking joke and always have been.
Anime companies hiking prices up to insane levels, and then wondering why only the hardcore buy their product.
It's like they don't listen to the market.

The same goes for simulcast/region-free/high-res webstreams.
They're still stuck in the 90s.

deepseacreature

Hybridchild wrote: »

That reads as if your advocting bootlegs but just finding issue with this one set. That may not have been your intention but its how it comes across.

As for your income I go to college on social welfare while living alone and I have over 500 anime DVD's. One thing you have to remember is that entertainment is a privlidge not a right and like any privlidge if you cant afford it theres no reason you should have it.

Thats not fair to give out to her
Its not her fault she thought she did right and as well your on the Eirtakon forums and everyone there goes on about they watch/download fansubs (moderates included) so you have no right to give out to Konata. I am not against the industry but seeing as im in secondary school and I have no job I cannot support it. Now while there is crunchyroll so some reason its really slow on me so I just download the 720p rips which download fast and look good. Anime is expensive even in the uk (dont get me started on japan) but I do try to support the manga side of it as I prefer to have it in my hands on not on a computer.

gearoidof

read the entire topic before giving out deepseacreature. The argument is that bootlegs are far worse than fansubs because you're paying someone to pirate as opposed to someone pirating for free.

thefinalstage

You know, Konata did nothing wrong here. She did not know they were bootlegs and even if she did she mentioned the poor quality of them so that is not promotion in any shape or form....People seem to forget the difference between promotion and open discussion.

I have bought bootlegs before myself. I did not know at the time but I have. I think anyone who tries to support the shows rather then download them will at some stage.

Art_Wolf

First off there should be no personal attacks on the forum.

Secondly I definitely would not have done the research if I had found what I considered a great deal on eBay. I am not even too sure how to go about checking if a collection would be legit - looking up the show on ANN, getting the distributor and then searching their site in the hopes that they mention it?

As far as I see it, bootleggers are con artists who profit from deceiving people into paying for their product which is stolen from the distributors/creators etc.

Hecate

Cy_Revenant wrote: »

You are not supporting the anime industry, but you are supporting the bootleg industry.

Not only that, but revenues from bootleg sales often go to fund the triads and other organised crime gangs who are heavily involved in this kind of thing.

On a lighter note, bootleg subs are often hilariously bad:

amacachi

Hecate wrote: »

Not only that, but revenues from bootleg sales often go to fund the triads and other organised crime gangs who are heavily involved in this kind of thing.

On a lighter note, bootleg subs are often hilariously bad:

Pygmalion

amacachi wrote: »

Google translate 2008.
Google translate 2009.
Google translate 2010.

At least that's the impression I got when reading it >.>

amacachi

Pygmalion wrote: »

Google translate 2008.
Google translate 2009.
Google translate 2010.

At least that's the impression I got when reading it >.>

Nah that image is probably 10 years old, first saw it 7 or 8 years ago.

On bootlegs, I've not bought any. On the other hand I've not bought any non-bootleg anime DVDs. :pac: At some point I'm hoping to get a decent DVD player that's easy to make region-free and start a bit of a collection, but that's probably a while away yet.