Failure of a state? AGAIN?!?

bobblepuzzle

To me, the fiasco of hundreds of thousands of Irish having to emigrate to find work in the 80's meant nothing more than a failed state

Fast forward two decades, and we are in the same scenario... do you think now it's the failure of the state again?

Phill Ewinn

two deacdes later and people are still voting the same way, more or less. Go figure!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

bobblepuzzle wrote: »

To me, the fiasco of hundreds of thousands of Irish having to emigrate to find work in the 80's meant nothing more than a failed state

Fast forward two decades, and we are in the same scenario... do you think now it's the failure of the state again?

Failed electorate.

bonerm

I'm starting to think Ireland isn't sustainable as an entity .... AGAIN.

macquarie

There's nothing left to stay in Ireland for if you are in your teens/20's or early 30's now, by the time there's any sort of sustainable recovery your life will be practically over. So it's either stay and put up with a deteriorating quality of life for the next 10-15 years or move to a good country.

phasers

macquarie wrote: »

There's nothing left to stay in Ireland for if you are in your teens/20's or early 30's now

I don't know about you but I like my family...

Wurly

macquarie wrote: »

There's nothing left to stay in Ireland for if you are in your teens/20's or early 30's now, by the time there's any sort of sustainable recovery your life will be practically over. So it's either stay and put up with a deteriorating quality of life for the next 10-15 years or move to a good country.

That's not entirely true. Sure, if you own property or have young families etc, then life may be difficult for a lot of people out there.

But if you're young and not tied to anything, there are still opportunities out there. So many people i've spoken to say that the recession has made them evaluate their lives and what they wanna do with it. Lots have considered going back to education, some are setting up their own businesses. Basically, people are creating their own opportunities which is a brilliant thing. Life is what you make it, irregardless of where you live.

Anita Blow

I'd emigrate, not because I think there's no future here, but because irish people are such moan bags. If the Irish population was a person, they'd be that friend that's always the anti-bant on a night out.

Yes we're in a bad situation. Will it last forever? No. Will it be ages before proper growth occurs? I don't know. And neither do you. Nobody can predict the future in 100% certainty so just be happy you have your family and still have highly above average standard of living compared to EU and other countries. Even a person on the dole here is better off than a person on the dole in another country. Is it ideal? Nope not at all but I know for a fact that ranting about it on an internet forum day in day out isn't going to change a thing.

Sofiztikated

macquarie wrote: »

There's nothing left to stay in Ireland for if you are in your teens/20's or early 30's now, by the time there's any sort of sustainable recovery your life will be practically over. So it's either stay and put up with a deteriorating quality of life for the next 10-15 years or move to a good country.

Meh, I'm happy enough to stay for the time being. I'm 27, I have a decent job, car, house, family.

Oh, is this some sort of new rule that jung'uns HAVE to leave?

Zebra3

phasers wrote: »

I don't know about you but I like my family...

I don't like your family though.

PeterIanStaker

The State, which I give out about a lot, is less than a century old, is peripherally located next to a Europe that has had heavy industry as well as wars and upheaval for centuries.

However, this crisis has made me more determined to get ahead in my own relatively modest way ( I don't want to be a multi-millionaire, or even own a house, I'd just like a job in my field).

So I don't think the State has failed, the governmental system as well as the electorate has failed and needs radical overhaul.

Increasing taxes won't solve the problem, despite what some more leftist elements may say. Honestly I'm not sure how to solve the predicament we find ourselves in thanks to a few cowboys who were given free rein by their cronies.

It won't be an easy fix, but if someone has the financial savvy and foresight to prevent this from occurring again, that would be a good start.

hondasam

Leave the public sector alone.The pay tax also.

bobblepuzzle

hondasam wrote: »

Leave the public sector alone.

Why?!? Them and the unions are partly to blame...

hondasam

bobblepuzzle wrote: »

Why?!? Them and the unions are partly to blame...

Them not been the ordinary worker I assume.

bobblepuzzle

bobblepuzzle wrote: »

Of course the reason why most tax payers are peed off at the moment is funding the extravagent Social Welfare bill and public sector pay bill... The USC takes another 7% off nearly every single employed person in the country... it would not be necessary if the dole money and medical cards were sliced and diced. But those cuts are on the way anyway... it's a ****ty mess, but it has to be culled

I think you'll find our current financial difficulties have far more to do with the ridiculous decision by Fianna Failure to guarantee the banks, particularly Anglo.

We used to be a low tax economy and our social welfare bill was actually pretty low as a percentage of GDP compared to many european countries.

But by all means, don't let mere facts stand in the way of ill informed ranting and the advocation of the abolition of healthcare for the less well off.

ejmaztec

bobblepuzzle wrote: »

To me, the fiasco of hundreds of thousands of Irish having to emigrate to find work in the 80's meant nothing more than a failed state

Fast forward two decades, and we are in the same scenario... do you think now it's the failure of the state again?

You forgot to mention the 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s, which must mean that Ireland's always been a failed state.

phasers

Zebra3 wrote: »

I don't like your family though.

Your loss

ilovesleep

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

two deacdes later and people are still voting the same way, more or less. Go figure!

I was watching something a few weeks ago with my mam. i think it was reeling in the years from the 80s.

I asked my mam how corrupt was charles haughy? I asked her did she know that the IMF were due to be called into ireland in 1987. She couldnt tell me and said that she was never political. She found politics boring.

I asked her did she know that it was FG/Labour government that fixed 80s recession, and that FF came back in 97 to fcuk it up.

An awful lot of 80s, 90s adults have an awful lot to answer for.

The new incoming government will have to take in measures for ignorant voting.

bobblepuzzle

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you'll find our current financial difficulties have far more to do with the ridiculous decision by Fianna Failure to guarantee the banks, particularly Anglo.

We used to be a low tax economy and our social welfare bill was actually pretty low as a percentage of GDP compared to many european countries.

But by all means, don't let mere facts stand in the way of ill informed ranting and the advocation of the abolition of healthcare for the less well off.

The bank question has been settled, it's how we overcome the debt that counts... and having a social welfare bill that's the envy of the world its one place to start cutting...

Excuse me for a second, I know the facts and I know our current system is wholly unsustainable, and I didn't once advocate the abolition of healthcare for the less well off...

bobblepuzzle

bobblepuzzle wrote: »

I didn't once advocate the abolition of healthcare for the less well off...

Ahem...

bobblepuzzle wrote: »

Of course the reason why most tax payers are peed off at the moment is funding the extravagent Social Welfare bill and public sector pay bill... The USC takes another 7% off nearly every single employed person in the country... it would not be necessary if the dole money and medical cards were sliced and diced. But those cuts are on the way anyway... it's a ****ty mess, but it has to be culled

Debthree

ilovesleep wrote: »

An awful lot of 80s, 90s adults have an awful lot to answer for.

The new incoming government will have to take in measures for ignorant voting.

Keep in mind that Fianna Fail got 78 seats in the last general election in 2007. This was with full transparency of Fianna Fail's disgusting corruption. How can you blame voters from 20-25 years ago for that?

bobblepuzzle

Deleted User wrote: »

Ahem...

I meant I wanted their funding cut... and "ahem" all you like, you read it wrong... :rolleyes:

bobblepuzzle

Debthree wrote: »

Keep in mind that Fianna Fail got 78 seats in the last general election in 2007. This was with full transparency of Fianna Fail's disgusting corruption. How can you blame voters from 20-25 years ago for that?

Maybe because 20-25 year olds had too many jobs to choose from? Of course, Fianna Fail all the way

bobblepuzzle

bobblepuzzle wrote: »

I meant I wanted their funding cut... and "ahem" all you like, you read it wrong... :rolleyes:

Cutting funding for medical cards is the same thing as cutting medical cards. Which is the same thing as abolishing healthcare for the less well off.

If, despite appearances, this is not what you actually mean then I didn't read anything wrong, you wrote it wrong.

Dravokivich

bobblepuzzle wrote: »

To me, the fiasco of hundreds of thousands of Irish having to emigrate to find work in the 80's meant nothing more than a failed state

Fast forward two decades, and we are in the same scenario... do you think now it's the failure of the state again?

rewind to 4.5 decades ago and and let me know what ya see...

bobblepuzzle

Deleted User wrote: »

Cutting funding for medical cards is the same thing as cutting medical cards

No it is not, don't be lame

bobblepuzzle

bobblepuzzle wrote: »

No it is not, don't be lame

Enlighten me, how would you propose to provide medical cards to people without the funding to pay for it.

You do know that a medical card costs more than the piece of plastic it is made from right?

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Enlighten me, how would you propose to provide medical cards to people without the funding to pay for it.

What are you on about? Cutting funding doesn't mean zero funding.

Snakeblood

phasers wrote: »

I don't know about you but I like my family...

I can sell you some pictures of them if you like.

Fratton Fred

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you'll find our current financial difficulties have far more to do with the ridiculous decision by Fianna Failure to guarantee the banks, particularly Anglo.

We used to be a low tax economy and our social welfare bill was actually pretty low as a percentage of GDP compared to many european countries.

But by all means, don't let mere facts stand in the way of ill informed ranting and the advocation of the abolition of healthcare for the less well off.

I agree 100% about Anglo, not so sure about AIB and BofI though. Too many innocent people would be affected by their collapse.

One thing you need to remember is that this country was never low tax. Stamp duty is very high and vrt is nothing short of outrageous. What the government gave with one hand, it quickly took back with the other. The trouble is no one is buying houses or cars, so the income has to go back to the more direct taxation of paye.

jackiebaron

bobblepuzzle wrote: »

To me, the fiasco of hundreds of thousands of Irish having to emigrate to find work in the 80's meant nothing more than a failed state

Fast forward two decades, and we are in the same scenario... do you think now it's the failure of the state again?

Great country. Great people. Pretty girls. Wanker leaders.
We have more in the way of resources than the great people of Denmark yet they don't have to flood away from their homeland in droves. Is their a Danish "diaspora"? Nah!

Keep voting "Feel and Fall" though.

Killer Pigeon

God I hate this country. Nearly every institution of Irish society is plain fucked up. It's just incredible really. I'm just going to save up enough money so I can move abroad. I'm thinking Canada, maybe Alaska.

jackiebaron

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

God I hate this country. Nearly every institution of Irish society is plain fucked up. It's just incredible really. I'm just going to save up enough money so I can move abroad. I'm thinking Canada, maybe Alaska.

Enjoy Sarah Palin.

Killer Pigeon

jackiebaron wrote: »

Enjoy Sarah Palin.

Alaska is a very big state, 18 times bigger than Ireland. I'm sure there's room for both of us.

Snakeblood

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Alaska is a very big state, 18 times bigger than Ireland. I'm sure there's room for both of us.

That's what the caribou thought.