Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Houses to nose dive to appropriate levels.

Options
13

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    Duckjob
    Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    housetypeb wrote: »
    How can they stabilise interest rates -isn't that up to the eu?

    I think they're talking about the margins lenders are charging over the ECB rates for their variable rate loans.

    Sounds like non-sensical vote buying crap to me. Banks have to set their own rates at a commercially viable level. If they are prevented from doing that, then they lose money and have to be continually propped up by the taxpayer.

    I'd love to hear once, just once, one of our policitians have the stones to tell it like it is to the public no matter how unpalatable it may sound. Utterly sick to my stomach of hearing this populist ****eology at this stage.


  • Options
    #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Blackjack wrote: »
    Well if you save the difference between rent and Mortgage, this may help.

    All very well and good until kids come along etc etc etc. Also rents can often be more than mortgages, particularly 10 to 15 years into a mortgage. Many folk wouldn't fancy the idea of retiring without owning their own property. I don't think many folk who bought a house 20 years ago in Ireland regret doing so.


  • Options
    #64
    Blackjack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Blackjack


    RoverJames wrote: »
    All very well and good until kids come along etc etc etc. Also rents can often be more than mortgages, particularly 10 to 15 years into a mortgage. Many folk wouldn't fancy the idea of retiring without owning their own property. I don't think many folk who bought a house 20 years ago in Ireland regret doing so.

    All Very well - but put in some figures and it makes quite a bit of sense to rent, particularly if rates continue to increase.

    For the bit in bold, ask anyone who bought in the last 5 years today if they regret buying. In 2 years time - ask anyone who bought in the previous 10 what they think.
    The answers will be similar, and I'd expect many will have wished they would have rented.


  • Options
    #65
    iguana
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 12,916 Mod ✭✭✭✭iguana


    RoverJames wrote: »
    I don't think many folk who bought a house 20 years ago in Ireland regret doing so.

    There are an enormous amounts of reasons for this which just don't apply today.

    People who bought in '91 bought houses at their correct value, not the insane prices still being expected today.

    There was massive inflation over the last 20 years, it wiped out the real cost of their repayments. That's unlikely to happen in the next 20 years if the Germans have any say in the matter. And as it stands they have pretty much all the say.

    Interest rates were at historical highs, when they dropped over the following years people saved a fortune. Now they are at historical lows, when they rise, as they will, people will lose a fortune.

    20 years ago mortgages were usually 20-25 years long. People who bought then are almost at the end of their terms. (Unless they "released" equity.) Over the last decade 35 and even 40 year mortgages were the norm. It's conceivable that many who bought in the last few years will still have repayments which are a large chunk of their income in 2031.

    You're comparing cats with dogs. Sure they sound alike when described by a deaf toddler but they are two very different animals.


  • Options
    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well folks be that as it may, however there are many many folks who bought in the last 5 to 10 years who can still comfortably pay their mortgage and who can still do so after more interest rises. I personally wouldn't fancy saving up to pay rent for when I am retired. Currently it may or may not be a wise time to buy (personally I'm not in the market so I'm not overly bothered) but a mortgage is typically 30 years, renting for life could be 60 years if you do so from the age of 20 to 80, also we don't know when we will die so trying to budget forward for long term renting beyond retirement is something that will appeal to very few folk.

    Married couples planning on having families etc, horses for courses and all but you would want a serious lash of savings to be 65 and planning on renting until you die. Also should you have to retire early for whatever reason (other half needing a carer etc) the reality of having the mortgage paid off could be quite a relief. If your wife/husband is diagnosed with cancer at 60 and the kids are in college I'm sure we'd all prefer to have the mortgage paid and be able to afford to leave work rather then having to keep at it to pay the rent.

    Regarding the deaf toddler point, very good, well done on that one.

    People on this thread are spouting wild generalisations about 35/40 year mortgages being the norm, only couples being able to afford to purchase during the boom bla bla bla. Sweeping gereralisations that do not apply to many recent homeowners.

    Not everyone is on €30k annum. And many of those on more who were single when they purchased didn't exceed 4/5 times there annual salary with their borrowing.

    Longterm (as in 20/30 years) rents are quite likely to spiral again for a period.


    Again the question I asked was what are those renting longterm intentions for retirement? No one has answered.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    planetX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,441 ✭✭✭planetX


    RoverJames wrote: »

    Again the question I asked was what are those renting longterm intentions for retirement? No one has answered.

    Destitution for me:(

    You can't compare owning with renting purely on a money basis. Renting in Ireland is not always pleasant, there are dreadful landlords out there. If you have kids it's hard to feel like you have a home, there are always restrictions on what you can do, whether you can improve things. And if you do there is no security that you won't be out looking for a new home by the next year.
    Personally, I would rather own my own shack than live in someone else's mansion. But maybe thats just cos I've had to uproot 3 times in 3 years, it takes it's toll on your spirits:(:(:(


  • Options
    #68
    fred252
    Registered Users Posts: 450 ✭✭fred252


    RoverJames wrote: »
    Again the question I asked was what are those renting longterm intentions for retirement? No one has answered.

    first off lets not assume that those considering renting long term in ireland are on average or low incomes. they invest in a balanced portfolio excluding bricks and mortar. when it comes to retirment they have more than enough to cover rent indefintiely plus they have the flexibility to downsize (far more easily than if they owned) or head abroad to a cheaper, more tropical local for half the year. as opposed to owning one expensive stock that's difficult to liquidate in a hurry they have stocks that are easy to liquidate as needs be.

    a friend's parents in frankfurt are well into their retirment and fairly well-to-do. they are renting a nice place on the outskirts of the city and have never owned. i have to say i was perplexed by this a few years ago but didn't quiz them as to why they hadn't bought. last time i was over they were looking to move to a smaller apartment. they seem to go on holidays a lot and not to cheap destinations. they are enjoying their retirement. a point worth mentioning of course is that the laws in germany (in frankfurt at least) seem stacked in the favour of the tenants. i understand it is very difficult to increase rents and landlords must present a case to some board to justify any increase.


  • Options
    #69
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    fred252 wrote: »
    first off lets not assume that those considering renting long term in ireland are on average or low incomes.

    Ah come on will you, I would be fairly sure the majority of folks renting long term in Ireland are on average to low incomes, there will be folks who aren't but most will, "they invest in a balanced portfolio excluding bricks and mortar" lol, we are now after entering fantasy land.

    What do the folks on average incomes do?


  • Options
    #70
    dory
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,494 Mod ✭✭✭✭dory


    fred252 wrote: »
    a point worth mentioning of course is that the laws in germany (in frankfurt at least) seem stacked in the favour of the tenants. i understand it is very difficult to increase rents and landlords must present a case to some board to justify any increase.

    Lots of things like that need to be addressed before long term renting could be the norm here. Another is furnishings. I hate the usual furniture in a rented place, with throws over the sofas to hide stains. When unfurnished places become more commonplace it be another factor that makes long term renting more of an option.


  • Options
    #71
    fred252
    Registered Users Posts: 450 ✭✭fred252


    RoverJames wrote: »
    Ah come on will you, I would be fairly sure the majority of folks renting long term in Ireland are on average to low incomes, there will be folks who aren't but most will, "they invest in a balanced portfolio excluding bricks and mortar" lol, we are now after entering fantasy land.

    What do the folks on average incomes do?

    my point is that its a valid consideration for everyone in society, not just average earners. as long as prices are out of whack (as the yield analysis will show on most houses in the market) people are better off renting, average earner or otherwise.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    fred252 wrote: »
    my point is that its a valid consideration for everyone in society, not just average earners. as long as prices are out of whack (as the yield analysis will show on most houses in the market) people are better off renting, average earner or otherwise.

    Well that wasn't you point in your last post, where you assumed folks renting longterm were not low or average earners etc.


  • Options
    #73
    fred252
    Registered Users Posts: 450 ✭✭fred252


    dory wrote: »
    Lots of things like that need to be addressed before long term renting could be the norm here. Another is furnishings. I hate the usual furniture in a rented place, with throws over the sofas to hide stains. When unfurnished places become more commonplace it be another factor that makes long term renting more of an option.

    good point. they even rip the kitchens out when moving house in germany.
    i wonder will the irish mindset change in this regard. i still have that mindset and want to buy my own place but as so many commentators have said it just doesn't make sense at the moment.


  • Options
    #74
    fred252
    Registered Users Posts: 450 ✭✭fred252


    RoverJames wrote: »
    Well that wasn't you point in your last post, where you assumed folks renting longterm were not low or average earners etc.

    no, my point was to give an example of what somebody might intend to do in retirement if they rent instead of buy. this is a direct response to your question.


  • Options
    #75
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    fred252 wrote: »
    no, my point was to give an example of what somebody might intend to do in retirement if they rent instead of buy. this is a direct response to your question.

    i have german friend retired , rents in munich , but owns apartment in tenerife where he spends the winter , seems ok option


  • Options
    #76
    Heisenberg.
    Registered Users Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭Heisenberg.


    This post has been deleted.


  • Options
    #77
    macquarie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭macquarie


    Personally if considering buying, not sure if it's been mentioned already but I would wait until after the inevitable default (restructuring, whatever you want to call it) of our €200 billion+ national debt. Interesting article last year by Morgan Kelly related to this:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0522/1224270888132.html


  • Options
    #78
    Spiritofthekop
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Spiritofthekop


    musharra wrote: »
    It is mainly referred to as house 'prices', but in todays market an asking 'price' is about as accurate as a
    drunk surgeon with a rusty blade.

    The value of a house is only what someone is willing to pay for it and in the irish property market the indications are that the value of houses are set to decrease significantly below current levels in the coming year.

    The country's largest mortgage provider TSB is abolishing fixed rate homeloans which leaves any potentially new customers with no option but to go variable and be exposed to future interest rate increases.
    This change will without doubt spread to other mortgage providers and depress any potential borrowings.

    Who are the potential customers. With un-employment at 13.4% and a generation of educated Irish leaving the country its is hard to see any buyers in today market.

    The surge in purchasing in the boom years drew in younger first time buyers who were talked into a now difficult situation.
    Families hoping of trading up to a larger home will only sell their existing home by reducing their expectations.

    Similarly for those wishing to trade down to smaller homes.

    Another reason why house values will drop is they are still hugely overvalued. A search of daft will prove that the majority of sellers are still living in 2007 cuckoo-land.
    Also NAMA feeds into the mix as indications are that it will be forced to a fire sell of blocks of houses which
    will quickly draw the market down to appropriate levels.

    Irelands forfeiting on the bailout will also be another
    factor as the external investors who were despised for ramping up prices in the boom years will remain away from the market.

    Down they must come and down they will come. Anyone considering buying now needs to consider the future value which could be a 50% reduction in 6 months! Anyone selling should drop their price and get out now.

    100% AGREE.

    Some of the houses for SALE on Daft are comical in value.

    The Times Houes Price list just came out & most if not all propertys on Daft (south side i looked at) are overpriced by up to nearly €150,000 in most cases.

    CRAZY PEOPLE!! :eek:..why do they leave there house for sale on Daft for over 1 year when its nearly €150,000 over priced and they still wont budge...lol...

    Time for people to get real in this country.


  • Options
    #79
    fred252
    Registered Users Posts: 450 ✭✭fred252


    Scien wrote: »
    Same goes for leasings...
    I'm house hunting at the moment and the urge to mail some of these clowns asking what planet they are on is becoming almost uncontrollable.

    my parents had a house up for sale just before the bubble burst. they instructed the estate agent to stop marketing the house after a few months as they didn't actually need to sell and are happy to hang onto it until the market starts to recover. last time i was home i was checking myhome.ie for houses nearby and found that the parents home was being advertised at a ridiculous price, literally twice what its worth. i told the parents and they didn't know it was being advertised. i told them to get onto the estate agent and get them to remove the ad as they were skewing the statistics.

    are estate agents intentionally trying to inflate the average house price?


  • Options
    #80
    Blackjack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Blackjack


    fred252 wrote: »
    my parents had a house up for sale just before the bubble burst. they instructed the estate agent to stop marketing the house after a few months as they didn't actually need to sell and are happy to hang onto it until the market starts to recover. last time i was home i was checking myhome.ie for houses nearby and found that the parents home was being advertised at a ridiculous price, literally twice what its worth. i told the parents and they didn't know it was being advertised. i told them to get onto the estate agent and get them to remove the ad as they were skewing the statistics.

    are estate agents intentionally trying to inflate the average house price?
    Yes


  • Options
    #81
    Spiritofthekop
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Spiritofthekop


    EricPraline wrote: »
    The article is referring to the Sunday Times Property Guide. It's an annual PR stunt from estate agents facilitated by Murdoch's newspaper. It has a history of being notoriously wrong it's it predictions. For example in it's 2009 edition it forecast that prices were starting to stabilise, with even modest price increases in some urban areas :rolleyes:

    Anybody who believes the promotional spam printed in property supplements needs their head examined.

    100% CORRECT


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    mathie
    Registered Users Posts: 5,102 ✭✭✭mathie


    fred252 wrote: »
    are estate agents intentionally trying to inflate the average house price?

    How would it benefit an EA to have a property up for sale at far above avarage asking price? They work on a percentage commission.
    It makes zero sense for them to have properties up if they're not priced to sell.
    Better to get 1% of 300K than no sale at 600K.

    I do see where your coming from though.
    We sold a few years back and the first EA set the asking too high.
    We got very little interest.

    So after a few months we went with a young motivated guy who said "Knock 25% off and you'll sell". We sold within the month of going with him.

    I think it's more the sellers that are deluded that the EAs.

    But then again most EAs are ****s.


  • Options
    #83
    fred252
    Registered Users Posts: 450 ✭✭fred252


    mathie wrote: »
    How would it benefit an EA to have a property up for sale at far above avarage asking price? They work on a percentage commission.

    I do see where your coming from though.

    We sold a few years back and the first EA set the asking too high.
    We got very little interest.

    So after a few months we went with a young motivated guy who said "Knock 25% off and you'll sell". We sold within the month of going with him.

    I think it's more the sellers that are deluded that the EAs.

    But then again most EAs are ****s.


    back then EAs were overvalueing to entice vendors to use their services. and once they're in and there's little interest they "advise" the vendors to lower the price and get the commission.

    i'm just not sure what the incentive is now for e.g. in the case of my parents EAs (maybe they just forgot to remove the ad)


  • Options
    #84
    rokossovsky
    Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭rokossovsky


    Blackjack wrote: »
    Yes


    No surely not...a disgraceful allegation


  • Options
    #85
    Spiritofthekop
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Spiritofthekop


    One of 100's of over priced comical valuations on myhome or daft.

    I could list 100's of these.

    By the Times valuation of this area this 2nd hand 3 bed semi detached house should only be worth €295,000 not €495,000.:eek:

    How is anyone supposed to buy a house when there is no value out there??

    http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/93-templeville-road-templeogue-dublin-6w/1243406


  • Options
    #86
    fred252
    Registered Users Posts: 450 ✭✭fred252


    Spiritofthekop wrote: »
    One of 100's of over priced comical valuations on myhome or daft.

    I could list 100's of these.

    By the Times valuation of this area this 2nd hand 3 bed semi detached house should only be worth €295,000 not €495,000.:eek:

    How is anyone supposed to buy a house when there is no value out there??

    http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/93-templeville-road-templeogue-dublin-6w/1243406

    where did you see the times valuation for that area? can you post the link. thanks


  • Options
    #87
    Spiritofthekop
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Spiritofthekop


    fred252 wrote: »
    where did you see the times valuation for that area? can you post the link. thanks

    I have the pull out from the Sunday Times at home. I think from looking at it yesterday it could even be as low 275,000 for Templogue.

    I'm trying to find a link for it online as well.


  • Options
    #88
    Chipboard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭Chipboard


    Scien wrote: »
    Same goes for leasings...
    I'm house hunting at the moment and the urge to mail some of these clowns asking what planet they are on is becoming almost uncontrollable.

    +2

    I mentioned to an auctioneer around 12 months ago that we might be interested in a house we were viewing if the seller came down to €270k. He said that the seller would never agree to that as it cost him more than that to build it. I told him that my BOI shares cost more than they are now worth but I couldn't go to the stock exchange with that story. Most of them don't understand the concept of value.

    That house is now on the market for €270k but I can get alot more for my money at this stage.


  • Options
    #89
    robd
    Registered Users Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    fred252 wrote: »
    back then EAs were overvalueing to entice vendors to use their services. and once they're in and there's little interest they "advise" the vendors to lower the price and get the commission.

    i'm just not sure what the incentive is now for e.g. in the case of my parents EAs (maybe they just forgot to remove the ad)

    Also makes other prices look cheaper than the really are. People psychologically feel they are getting a bargain. Same as agreeing to a 20% discount, when in reality house is 20% overpriced.


  • Options
    #90
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    the above story is great! Do these gob***tes think what they paid to buy or build has any relevance to the price now, or that you cant lose on property?! LOL, LOL! The longer these morons wait, if a seller has to sell now, they should take the first reasonable offer, if they wait, how much less will it be worth in 6-12 months?!


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    Highly Salami
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭Highly Salami


    Spiritofthekop wrote: »
    http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/93-templeville-road-templeogue-dublin-6w/1243406
    Um, that doesn't seem vastly overvalued for that house, it would have sold for much more a few years ago!


Advertisement