Help With Dog Vaccinations

i-digress

Sorry if this has been asked before.

My beautiful labrador is going to be starting obedience classes soon. She's fairly obedient, but can still play the mad puppy around people she doesn't know. It's important for me to get her under sharper control generally, but also because my husband and I are going to be fostering kids this year, and I want to start her with agility training. So we're looking forward to it.

Problem is, I need proof of vaccinations. Roxie had all her vaccines as a pup, and has been spayed. She's eleven months, and hasn't been vaccinated since. Does she need anything else? I'm thinking of getting her vaccinated against kennel cough, that's the one she doesn't have. But when does she need her booster.

So excited about her eventually doing agility.:D She's a clever girl, and I think she's going to love it. It'll also be good for her to use her brain a bit more. She gets her proper amount of exercise, but because of my medical condition I tend to bring her to the same place every day because I know I can get back from there quickly if I start hurting. She needs more stimulation, even if it's only weekly.

Anyone else brought their dogs to agility training?

hollysf

Her first booster is due one year after her second puppy jab, she needs kennel cough for the classes, this lasts for a year. Its cheaper to get the two jabs done together. swimming is really good exercise for labs

Bog Bunny

It may be cheaper to give the two jabs together, but is it healthier for the dog? Would you consider giving a child the MMR vaccine and the flu jab at the same time? It is always an onslaught on the immune system. Give it some time to deal with one, and then the other.

andreac

You cannot compare the 2. They are completely different vaccines and these are dogs, not people.

Ive often got the kennel cough and booster at same time for my dog with no side affects or problems.

It works out cheaper to get both done at same time. So i would try get both done together when the booster is due.The booster is due one year from the last vaccine your dog got as a pup.
Not all classes require Kennel Cough so if your classes start before you get the kennel cough im sure you will be ok, but maybe check with them first.

Bog Bunny

andreac wrote: »

You cannot compare the 2. They are completely different vaccines and these are dogs, not people.

Are you really saying that a dog's immune system is different?
It's a mammal, like a human is a mammal, and the same principles apply to both species.
As to annual boosters. What about the new vaccines that are valid for three years (at least) as per declaration on the sticker/label. If the pharmaceutical companies themseves have amended their recommendations regarding the boosters and extended the interval to three years, why do vets not pass this information on to their customers?

Is there a law that compels anyone to have their dog vaccinated yearly - or at all? Isn't it rather the decision of a responsible owner to have their pet immunised in a way that conforms with a sensible vaccination protocol but does not put the health of their pets at risk by over-vaccinating?
Would a parent agree to have a child jabbed every year against MMR, small pox, TB etc. until the day it dies?

There is plenty of information available online, just google for it.

andreac

Bog Bunny wrote: »

Are you really saying that a dog's immune system is different?
It's a mammal, like a human is a mammal, and the same principles apply to both species.
As to annual boosters. What about the new vaccines that are valid for three years (at least) as per declaration on the sticker/label. If the pharmaceutical companies themseves have amended their recommendations regarding the boosters and extended the interval to three years, why do vets not pass this information on to their customers?

Is there a law that compels anyone to have their dog vaccinated yearly - or at all? Isn't it rather the decision of a responsible owner to have their pet immunised in a way that conforms with a sensible vaccination protocol but does not put the health of their pets at risk by over-vaccinating?
Would a parent agree to have a child jabbed every year against MMR, small pox, TB etc. until the day it dies?

There is plenty of information available online, just google for it.

The thing with vaccines for dogs is that if you bring your dog to kennels, shows etc you have to have your vaccinations up to date annually.

There is no law as such but as i mentioned, kennels etc require these so thats why they have to be done annually.

I personally will vaccinated for Lepto and Parvo every year as i have seen a lot of dogs suffering with these diseases and they are horrible and most of them dont survive so i will always make sure mine are vaccinated for these.

Bog Bunny

andreac wrote: »

The thing with vaccines for dogs is that if you bring your dog to kennels, shows etc you have to have your vaccinations up to date annually.

There is no law as such but as i mentioned, kennels etc require these so thats why they have to be done annually.

I personally will vaccinated for Lepto and Parvo every year as i have seen a lot of dogs suffering with these diseases and they are horrible and most of them dont survive so i will always make sure mine are vaccinated for these.

I agree that boarding kennels have to insist on an up to date vaccination, but the operative word is 'up-to-date'!
As an example: Rabies vaccines (which are the only vacc required by law for dogs living outside Ireland or travelling between Ireland & the Continent) used to be given annually. Now it's official that certain brands of rabies vaccine give protection for three years, and the 'valid until' date in the vacc record is the date that is checked when crossing borders.

I know that the Lepto vaccine can be obtained separately (btw, this is the one that's most implicated in vaccinosis = health problems caused by vacinations) but who in Ireland supplies the Parvo vaccine as a separate shot? At best, it comes in the 6-in-One package, but most times it's a combo shot of 7-in-One, where the Lepto is used as a diluant.
And it is not a 'booster' - it's the full vaccination.

Why not opt for the titer test, to see if your dog has sufficient immunity against the various 'vaccinable' diseases?

Further reading here (it's long but it's very helpful!)
http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocuments/VaccineGuidelines06Revised.pdf

http://www.critteradvocacy.org/Canine%20Vaccination%20Guidlines.htm

http://www.dvmvac.com/

I wonder why the information that is out there has not filtered down to the vast number of vets here in Ireland.

tk123

OP make sure you get a vaccination card from the vets - they list what vaccinations have been given and when. My guy got his kennel cough vaccination a few weeks ago having had his boosters 3 months ago - the vet said next time to get them all done at once as it's cheaper and there's no problems getting the KC one a few months early.
We've done some foundation agility and I found it really good for getting our guy to focus and calm down.

katyt

Bog Bunny wrote: »

Are you really saying that a dog's immune system is different?
It's a mammal, like a human is a mammal, and the same principles apply to both species.

There is plenty of information available online, just google for it.

Yes, a dog's immune system is completely different from that of human. If we treated all mammals as if they were all identical there would be an awful lot of dead animals - and indeed humans - out there!

This is one of the challenges with being a responsible pet owner. It is not about learning the rules and best practice with humans and then applying this to a dog, a cat or a horse.
It is about learning about the particular animal that you have, and applying that learning to that specific animal.
It is also about going to the right expert for medical advice. If you do not want to kill your dog from neglect, ask a vet for advice. If you do not want to kill your child, ask a doctor.

I agree that you will also get good advice from google. It could well help with tricky decisions. However, I would advise this poster to watch some good documentaries and the Animal Planet channel a bit more. It is fascinating to learn more about different mammals - other than humans!

Bog Bunny

katyt wrote: »

Yes, a dog's immune system is completely different from that of human. If we treated all mammals as if they were all identical there would be an awful lot of dead animals - and indeed humans - out there!
<snip>QUOTE]

Do you perhaps confuse Immune System with Metabolism?

Definition of Metabolism

• The chemical processes occurring within a living cell or organism that are necessary for the maintenance of life. In metabolism some substances are broken down to yield energy for vital processes while other substances, necessary for life, are synthesized.
• The processing of a specific substance within the living body: water metabolism; iodine metabolism.
  Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/metabolism#ixzz1DDxidRf3

Definition of Immune System

The integrated body system of organs, tissues, cells, and cell products such as antibodies that differentiates self from nonself and neutralizes potentially pathogenic organisms or substances.


Read more:
http://www.answers.com/topic/immune-system#ixzz1DDyoSt64

This quote should give you more information:

Abstract:
Infectious agents threaten any organism. Therefore, mammals and insects have evolved a complex network of cells and humoral factors termed immune system able to control and eliminate pathogens. Immunity varies between different groups of animals but always contains an innate immune system that can act fast and often effectively against a wide range of distinct pathogens (i.e. viruses, bacteria, fungi, and eukaryotic parasites). In mammals and insects, the communication between and regulation of immune cells is carried out by cytokines which orchestrate the defense against the invaders. The major challenge to recognize and to fight pathogens is the same for any host. In insects and mammals, the pathogens are recognized as non-self by recognition of pathogen-associated molecular patterns. In addition, similar pathogen recognition receptors and signaling pathways activate the immune response in insects and mammals. The pathogens have to be opsonized and/or ingested and controlled/eliminated by antimicrobial peptides or small effector molecules (reactive oxygen and nitrogen intermediates). Interestingly, even invertebrates have evolved certain forms of adaptive immunity, i.e. specific immune priming, and in some invertebrates alternative splicing of pathogen recognition receptors allows for a more specific recognition of a wide variety of pathogens. This enhanced specificity of pattern recognition conveys a special form of memory to their invertebrate hosts. In this chapter, we also consider gut immunity of insects and compare it with the response in mammals.
Source: http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=135684

Cherry Blossom

OP - I would first of all check with any trainers or kennels you might take your dog to as to what their policies on vaccinations are.

As far as the 7-in-1 or similar goes the initial course of injections is the 2 injections given initially and the next one after 1 year. I would get the informtion you need first of all from trainer/kennels and then ask the advice of your own vet with this in mind.

Chris_Heilong

Interesting point Bog Bunny, but it is just the way things are done here and it makes money for the vets so I dont see hugh changes ahead of us. it is true about giving Vaccines to children, you would not do it all at the same time with a child but that is because we are "overly" careful when it comes to kids and I am sure you can understand why.

Meteoric

Bog Bunny wrote: »

As to annual boosters. What about the new vaccines that are valid for three years (at least) as per declaration on the sticker/label. If the pharmaceutical companies themseves have amended their recommendations regarding the boosters and extended the interval to three years, why do vets not pass this information on to their customers?

I'll take your word that some of the vaccines have changed the date of re-vaccination as I've not seen it myself, though have known about the fact the protection does not run out after a year. So my guess is that it is based on using titres to justify the extension. So it is good that the regulators are accepting that.
When I was learning about it a few (4 or 5) years ago the reason for a year was that the drug company had to justify the protection by having test animals and control (un-vaccinated) animals and exposing them to the disease at intervals showing the untreated animals did worse to justify the period of protection. None of the companies were willing to, on basis of cost and ethics, try for more than a year claim of protection. Think about it, asking for more than a year when they had to allow animals to get sick would be horrible for all concerned. The fact that they looked for the extension on the claim speaks well of them since they lose some sales from it.
Experience indicates most dogs are fine with a yearly booster, it does not harm them, so I think that is why most vets stick with the status quo.
I'm not saying it's right (I don't think it is) but I'd think that is the reason.

katyt

Bog Bunny wrote: »

katyt wrote: »

Yes, a dog's immune system is completely different from that of human. If we treated all mammals as if they were all identical there would be an awful lot of dead animals - and indeed humans - out there!
<snip>QUOTE]

:

Abstract:
Infectious agents threaten any organism. Therefore, mammals and insects have evolved a complex network of cells and humoral factors termed immune system able to control and eliminate pathogens. Immunity varies between different groups of animals but always contains an innate immune system that can act fast and often effectively against a wide range of distinct pathogens (i.e. viruses, bacteria, fungi, and eukaryotic parasites). In mammals and insects, the communication between and regulation of immune cells is carried out by cytokines which orchestrate the defense against the invaders. The major challenge to recognize and to fight pathogens is the same for any host. In insects and mammals, the pathogens are recognized as non-self by recognition of pathogen-associated molecular patterns. In addition, similar pathogen recognition receptors and signaling pathways activate the immune response in insects and mammals. The pathogens have to be opsonized and/or ingested and controlled/eliminated by antimicrobial peptides or small effector molecules (reactive oxygen and nitrogen intermediates). Interestingly, even invertebrates have evolved certain forms of adaptive immunity, i.e. specific immune priming, and in some invertebrates alternative splicing of pathogen recognition receptors allows for a more specific recognition of a wide variety of pathogens. This enhanced specificity of pattern recognition conveys a special form of memory to their invertebrate hosts. In this chapter, we also consider gut immunity of insects and compare it with the response in mammals.
Source: http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Doi=135684

Bog Bunny, no I wasn't getting them confusted at all. This abstract actually stipulates it quite clearly. All animals HAVE an immune system and immunity VARIES between different groups of animals. It couldn't be clearer. We have different immune systems. That is why WE don't get distemper or parvo virus!

Bog Bunny

Meteoric wrote: »

I'll take your word that some of the vaccines have changed the date of re-vaccination as I've not seen it myself, though have known about the fact the protection does not run out after a year. So my guess is that it is based on using titres to justify the extension. So it is good that the regulators are accepting that.
When I was learning about it a few (4 or 5) years ago the reason for a year was that the drug company had to justify the protection by having test animals and control (un-vaccinated) animals and exposing them to the disease at intervals showing the untreated animals did worse to justify the period of protection. None of the companies were willing to, on basis of cost and ethics, try for more than a year claim of protection. Think about it, asking for more than a year when they had to allow animals to get sick would be horrible for all concerned. The fact that they looked for the extension on the claim speaks well of them since they lose some sales from it.
Experience indicates most dogs are fine with a yearly booster, it does not harm them, so I think that is why most vets stick with the status quo.
I'm not saying it's right (I don't think it is) but I'd think that is the reason.

DFrug companies and cost effectiveness? For sure....
Drug companies and ethics? I wonder....

"most dogs are fine with a yearly booster" is not a valid enough argument when it is your pet that dies of meningitis after his booster, or develops cancer at the site of the injection, or gets epilepsy, or suffers from what is now a completely new disease complex, VACCINOSIS.

A good explanation you find here
http://www.whale.to/m/pitcairn6.html

Bog Bunny

katyt wrote: »

Bog Bunny wrote: »

Bog Bunny, no I wasn't getting them confusted at all. This abstract actually stipulates it quite clearly. All animals HAVE an immune system and immunity VARIES between different groups of animals. It couldn't be clearer. We have different immune systems. That is why WE don't get distemper or parvo virus!

Does the term 'species specific pathogens' mean anything to you?

katyt

Bog Bunny wrote: »

DFrug companies and cost effectiveness? A good explanation you find here
http://www.whale.to/m/pitcairn6.html

You jest, surely? Whale.to is your source? Is that where you are getting all of your information? Really?

Cherry Blossom

katyt wrote: »

You jest, surely? Whale.to is your source? Is that where you are getting all of your information? Really?

I've never heard of this site before and just looked (briefly) at the homepage, it looks like the hypochondriac's/conspiricy theorist's bible

Bog Bunny

katyt wrote: »

You jest, surely? Whale.to is your source? Is that where you are getting all of your information? Really?

<LOL> You should know where I get my info from, I do name the sources.

It does not make it wrong just because it makes you feel uncomfortable, does it?

The concept of Holistic or Alternative Medicine seems to be alien here.