Improving the current education system?

Deliverance

Ok we are all parents, we all have to hand our kids over to the 'state' at some point. Personally I find this to be a crux as a parent i.e. I find the education system Like any system is in need of improvement.

In your own words and in one paragraph can you as parents of kids with their many ways and different abilities, suggest a way to improve the education 'system' that is in place?

personally I would suggest a more effective use of technology that is in place as kids are using it more and more.

So my paragraph is:

"I would like to see a module in schools about the responsible use of technology, this would include the good and bad uses of it. The safe use of it, and importantly the negative impacts of misusing it i.e. bullying online, talking to strangers etc".

So... I would like to hear any other ideas on improving the education system from a parents point of view based on experience.

As parents we are the experts, and the current education system needs our feedback to improve it. I would suggest that: here that we can collaborate and form an intitial brainstorming session to come up with ideas to improve the system from our ideas as parents?

cucbuc

This is already covered in primary schools under NCTE guidelines. (National centre for technology in Education.)

Deliverance

Thanks for that link: Can I clarify that I am working in this area at 'ground zero' so to speak. I am involved in development of ideas and initialising ideas for this area. I am looking for feedback from parents as such to improve the education system from real experience.

http://www.ncte.ie/

I am part of a 'thinktank' that is based on initial ideas on how to improve the education system via tech. My ideas / input for this 'thinktank' include how to socially integrate an effective solution using cost effective solutions.

I believe that the system can be improved using tech, but it has to be done in such a way that it is all inclusive with how the tech is being used socially i.e. how the kids are using it.

I have an idea that could work which is why I am looking for feedback from parents on how they want to improve the education system, my other collegues in the same area are tech experts that have the ability to realise the ideas, we combine our expertise to benefit the education system.

It is time for change, but it takes people at the ground level (I think) to make it possible. I have the ideas, I have the people with the expertise to make it physically work via microchips and software etc.

It just needs the feedback from parents to become a part of it via feedback to make it work.

Deliverance

So I fall back to my intial point: What do you as parents see as improving the education system? I am open to any and all ideas and indeed arguments. The system in place is in need of improvement.

Every parent in my opinion has a right to suggest something. Personally I find teaching my own daughter the processes that are involved in just doing everyday things: i.e. tomorrow we will make bread from scratch, I will show her where wheat comes from, how it is made into flour, and how the flour is made into bread, and how it comes with jam that comes from fruit. Basically I will take an active role in her life and make her realise that she is not a blind consumer.

I think that this is important, education is important.

Morag

How about having state school, cos as it is we dont' have them and we are handing children over to schools patron by the catholic church.

Deliverance

Sharrow wrote: »

How about having state school, cos as it is we dont' have them and we are handing children over to schools patron by the catholic church.

I know what you mean, however the constitution does say that an opt out of this is in place. i.e. the child does not have to partake in a religious system in the schooling system. Unfortunately peer pressure comes into place i.e. the kids take communion on mass and the 'left out' individual child can and does feel estranged from this designed process.

As hard as it might be I feel that by choosing to intellegently step outside this process will make my own daughter come to realise the system and how it works. Realisation in this respect will give her the option to choose her own path and critically evaluate her life based on her own choices.

I feel that I would much prefer her to go through this process of questioning a 'forced' religious teaching, realise it for what it is, and then learn from it rather than becoming a compliant person that accepts things the way they are.

I think that religion is important in our society in some quarters but recent times have shown it to be a crux in Irish society surely? I accept that it is integral and all that but is there some way that it can be shown in a positive way as in making it a choice over an 'absolute' belief that is force fed to infants?

I respect all religious views and opinions. I feel and find that education and religion should be respectfully viewed and taught as seperate issues. Tis all about choice at the end of the day, teaching absolutes to infants is wrong in my view.

metrovelvet

Deliverance wrote: »

I know what you mean, however the constitution does say that an opt out of this is in place. i.e. the child does not have to partake in a religious system in the schooling system. Unfortunately peer pressure comes into place i.e. the kids take communion on mass and the 'left out' individual child can and does feel estranged from this designed process.

As hard as it might be I feel that by choosing to intellegently step outside this process will make my own daughter come to realise the system and how it works. Realisation in this respect will give her the option to choose her own path and critically evaluate her life based on her own choices.

I feel that I would much prefer her to go through this process of questioning a 'forced' religious teaching, realise it for what it is, and then learn from it rather than becoming a compliant person that accepts things the way they are.

I think that religion is important in our society in some quarters but recent times have shown it to be a crux in Irish society surely? I accept that it is integral and all that but is there some way that it can be shown in a positive way as in making it a choice over an 'absolute' belief that is force fed to infants?

I respect all religious views and opinions. I feel and find that education and religion should be respectfully viewed and taught as seperate issues. Tis all about choice at the end of the day, teaching absolutes to infants is wrong in my view.

I agree with you about the religious indoctrination even though I am not a secularist, I think religion should be left to the parents.

I would also question the political indoctrination done through the Irish history curriculum.

AS I was not educated in this country, I really do not know the depths of it but I do feel forcing kids to choose their paths at 18 years old is crazy. I also think their entire future resting on the exam results of the leaving cert is insane. The US cumulative grading system is far better and fairer. It is combined with a standardised test, written essay submissions as well as a personal interview and you dont have to choose your course of study until two years into your BA. So you can shop around first.

What I can compare is the difference between what I saw doing my MA in Ireland and what would be expected of US college graduates and the gap was stark, particularly in the area of writing and communication skills. It was shocking to see MA students hand in written assignments handwritten and without bibliographies. Apparantly in undergrad here this is how it's done. If I handed an essay in like that in my secondary school it would have been thrown back in my face with a big fat F.

As for primary, this is the time to strike when the iron is hot. Their minds are so absorbant and supple, this is the time for languages and saturation of learning in all disciplines.

THe WORST sin that education does across the board, is kill curiosity. And it does it systematically and regularly.

Moonbeam

Teachers have to be educated on how to use the technology and also how to use it in a class room setting and also how to teach it.
Some also have to accept that it belongs in the classroom.

I also believe all state schools should be secular.

Despite being Irish speakers I think Irish is thought very badly in schools and more emphasis should be put on oral Irish.

Morag

The opt out is lip service given how the ethos of the school is present in subjects like mucic and art and in prayers in the classroom.

mariebeth

I'm not a parent, but I am studying Early Childhood Studies, and I believe that child development should really come in to the Degree in Primary Teaching. Teachers need to know how children develop in order to be able to educate them appropriately.

TashaMonster

metrovelvet wrote: »

What I can compare is the difference between what I saw doing my MA in Ireland and what would be expected of US college graduates and the gap was stark, particularly in the area of writing and communication skills. It was shocking to see MA students hand in written assignments handwritten and without bibliographies. Apparantly in undergrad here this is how it's done. .

I don't know where in Ireland you did your MA but I have done an Undergraduate, MA and a PGDE in Irish Universities and I have NEVER seen anyone submit a handwritten paper. First day in first year we would have been informed of the format and standards required for all work and it was ALWAYS typed. I think the comparison you have made between the US and Ireland is inaccurate, handwritten papers without bibliographies is most certainly not "how it's done"

byhookorbycrook

Provision for exceptionally able children.
PE facilities -a hall for each primary school would be a start.
Funding that doesn't force schools to ask parents for a "voluntary":( contribution.
Rainwater harvesters for schools, help them beat water charges and greener too.

MissHoneyBun

mariebeth wrote: »

I'm not a parent, but I am studying Early Childhood Studies, and I believe that child development should really come in to the Degree in Primary Teaching. Teachers need to know how children develop in order to be able to educate them appropriately.

May I suggest familiarising yourself with subject matter before criticising things you clearly know nothing about.

Moonbeam

Talking about technology in schools - http://www.siliconrepublic.com/special-events/digital-schools/news/item/20205

Cat Melodeon

I would like to see the introduction of a syllabus that teaches kids how to think critically, how to use logic, that encourages them to think rather than to learn by rote.

I would like to see recognition of the various forms of intelligence, not just the two (linguistic and logical-mathematical) that 'can get you a good Leaving'. There is no reward for thousands of deserving kids in the current system.

I have respect for the teaching profession but they are let down by a very small minority of lazy, incompetent and disinterested time-servers. Many medium-large schools have at least one of these people and it is unfair that they remain on the payroll getting the same benefits as good teachers. The system must be reformed to allow for termination of contracts.

I agree with splitting undergrad study into one or two years of general studies before specializing in the final two years - dropout rates would not be as high and less money would be wasted. And I have to say, having tutored undergrads I was pretty shocked at some of the work that was handed up - no references, no bibliography, rants rather than arguments, missing the point by miles, self-obsessed personal reflections etc. Brings me back to my first point above.

Deliverance

Can I say that in the respect of education that we have really strong candidates coming from our colleges. These students are special and have brilliant innovative ideas. I interviewed several of them today and was in a position to advise them and indeed learn from them at the same time.

Their ideas and innovations from what I have seen are second to none. I am in a position to see the potential that exists. These individuals are also in a position to 'make a difference' to the education system in the future.

We are in a position in Ireland at this moment to be lucky enough to have such a resource that should and could work in a beneficial way for the future. However I think that this natural resource is in danger of being exported as has always been the case.

I would propose that these talented individuals be given a chance to stay and implement their ideas into the primary / secondary education system?

I think that we / they should and could visit secondary schools and give them a run down of how third level could work for them after the initial education system to see how it works after the experience.

Not a parent here. Student. My class has been told numerous times, by Spanish, American, English and Irish lecturers, that it can be strange teaching in Ireland (and apparently Germany it's the same) because no one asks questions. Apparently in other countries there's far more interaction, questions, curiosity, and willingness to answer out when a question is posed to the class. I think this feeling of "we should keep quiet", "don't be the one to put your hand up" etc is a huge problem in Irish education. We're taught from a young age that learning is something that we're told, instead of something we participate in. I was a very bright kid (as far as I know), and I was always really curious, working ahead of my class, begging my mum to get me books, teach me things, more interested in learning than anything else, but I NEVER felt stimulated/satisfied in school. Every day, the other swots and I would keep our heads down and do our work while the teacher spent their energy on the other kids, just trying to keep the place quiet. I never experienced a feeling of enthusiasm or encouragement to question. By the time I got to college and finally had a chance to air curiosity, I just didn't care anymore. I don't know what the difference is in other countries, but we should definitely look into it.

planetX

As the parent of a bright primary pupil, my main complaint is that everyone is kept back to what appears to be a pretty low level - especially maths. It's not popular, but streaming would be fairer than boring bright students to death. The workbooks they use are uninspiring and repetitive, especially Irish. The way Irish is being taught is ensuring that it will be as hated by the next generation as it is by the last.
I'd like to see more projects, more opportunity for a childs ability and imagination to come through. Their minds are being dulled by boredom and by inane workbooks that require very little effort.

Chuchoter

In terms of religion, I think we should adopt France's way of doing things. Opt out doesn't work when a sizable portion of the week is about religion (art/music/choir/school masses etc)

The major thing I think they should have is really encouraging individualism and lateral thinking. I used to be really into thinking of interesting solutions to problems in science or interpretations in English, now I've just given up because I only get funny looks from teachers and students alike and I'd get more marks if I just go with the status quo. I would also get rid of uniforms for senior years

Another thing I think would be really useful is if we made our secondary schools really huge. Like thousands of students in one building. The reason I think this is because then you can pool all your resources and make them incredible (super huge libraries/swimming pools etc) and also its really great if you are in some sort of marginalized group because then its not 'Wait til your in college. Then you can stop feeling like a freak all the time because no-one is like you'

planetX

This kind of sums up a lot of peoples experience in secondary - my sister asked a question out of genuine interest.
Teacher - 'you don't need to know that'

It's all geared up to performing in exams, not learning.

Deliverance

Very true, I am in touch with a chap who teaches grinds in math to kids. The same guy is a bit of an intellectual who spends any bonus moneys that he gets on books. One thing that he highlighted to me was an extraordinary fact from his experience in this teaching process and it really opened my eyes to an real problem:

From his input I learned that currently kids learn formulae and equations off by heart without any realisation of how these mathematical forumlae can be used tangibly in real life i.e. realisation of weight, distance temperature etc (you cannot learn this from a book alone) that is a simple fact.

I see adults using the same system in adult courses FAS etc, obviously something that they have learned via the previous learning system that they were involved in themselves as children.

There are ways to improve this system that eventually generates a way of learning that is kind of archaic, I believe that I can play an integral part in doing this via my research, input, expertise in learning theory, and my digital expertise as well and of course input from parents on here.

I believe that the system as it stands is as good as it could be, but I also feel that it can be improved constuctively: as any system needs to evolve to accomodate the needs of the users of the system. These 'users' in my view are primarily the kids, secondly it is the parents of these kids, lastly it is the concerned designers of the system i.e. myself and others that wish to make a difference from within the system and subsequently add to it in an objective way through a professional and objective input.

So as always I appreciate any feedback from parents. In the meantime I will be using my own child for the most important feedback as the ground level person that is in the system that I feel at times I am fighting against. In my view, in reality I should be working with the system to improve it and not fighting against it. I will do this in my own particular way by teaching my daughter that the 'boring' system she is in is only ltd process that will springboard her to better things.

mikemac

Better use of technology.

The first time I ever used Windows and MS Word was my first week of college and I wasn't on my own either!
The lecturer seems suprised and then disgusted, gave out to all of us and then kept us back for two weeks to learn everything. :pac:
Like File > Save as and so on.
This wasn't that long ago either

Students should have some sort of basic training in all this.
No matter if they are going to do a Phd or secretarial courses or anything realy, they need to know this

Not entirely the schools fault, broadband only arrived in the area in 2007. Every school should have access. Satellite if needs be.
And teachers trained so they can pass it on.

Deliverance

MissHoneyBun wrote: »

May I suggest familiarising yourself with subject matter before criticising things you clearly know nothing about.

that is unfair and a bad enough comment to make about the post of a person that made a valid input. Child development as a point from a person that is studying in this area is very valid and valuable in my view and I appreciate such a person coming on board and making that point from their growing / learning expertise.

To negate it in such a way is derivative and unfair especially without backing up any statements made. I think that child development as a realisation for any learning teacher is a good idea as a module of learning.

Teachers have a huge responsibility, a module of child development is actually very good thinking and the kind of early development / design of the system that needs to be thought about.

Deliverance

crayolastereo wrote: »

In terms of religion, I think we should adopt France's way of doing things. Opt out doesn't work when a sizable portion of the week is about religion (art/music/choir/school masses etc)

The major thing I think they should have is really encouraging individualism and lateral thinking. I used to be really into thinking of interesting solutions to problems in science or interpretations in English, now I've just given up because I only get funny looks from teachers and students alike and I'd get more marks if I just go with the status quo. I would also get rid of uniforms for senior years

Another thing I think would be really useful is if we made our secondary schools really huge. Like thousands of students in one building. The reason I think this is because then you can pool all your resources and make them incredible (super huge libraries/swimming pools etc) and also its really great if you are in some sort of marginalized group because then its not 'Wait til your in college. Then you can stop feeling like a freak all the time because no-one is like you'

Interesting that you should mention France: I believe that france have a module that teaches their schoolkids philosophy early on in life. It would be no harm at all to have kids or teens learning about life in a philisophical way as another way about thinking about 'things'.

At the moment I see lots of teens with nothing to think about or discuss other than where they are going to get the next beer from an offlicense or about how they are going to 'score' with each other. It leads to them being mindless individuals in tracksuits and caps waiting to heckle anyone they see as 'different'.

Giving them something to discuss and think about early on will give them an opinion as real individuals thereby, maybe alleviating some social problems. The state education system could make a difference in this way if this type of effort was implemented.

bluecatmorgana

excellent thread OP.
I'm an aunt who will be an SNA/ social care worker in the future.

I think everyone should learn to type from age 5, actually as soon as they can write their name they should be able to type it too. I'm unsure about teaching them about the correct fingering, I think it would work with most students but perhaps not all.

Also as a student studying in her second year, if we could teach from 12 years how to find references on the internet and how to find new ideas. I'm using this an awful lot and I really think secondary school is going to be about developing new opinions and ideas through the encyclopedia that is the internet. I think its a great way to develop curiosity, for example my 12 year old niece who is always asking questions comes up with some great questions, I often tell her to google it. At the moment she just puts in the straight question and sees what comes up but I hope to eventually teach her how to google a topic and find your answer that way.

This is going off topic but I feel there should be done more to help gifted children( I'm not sure what exactly) but the way I see it is that these children will be the inventors, professors and developers of the future and we need to encourage this. Also children who are at the high and low end of the scale are more likely to suffer from depression and so in that case I think there should be teaching about emotions and how to handle and communicate them. Just think of all the suicides in Ireland that could be prevented if children were taught how to seek help about their emotional difficulties.

bluecatmorgana

I also believe that the internet is a great way to give the student a choice in what topics he/she wants to learn. It could be a great way to encourage independent learning. Just think of it, anytime you want to know about a subject you just google it and up it comes.
I do believe there should be more leeway in how subjects are picked and taught. Students should have the right to pick what they want to learn. For example it should never be a case of "you dont need to know that" ever , as described by another poster. In this way motivation for studying and learning would increase as the student would be learning about what he/she wants to know.

mikemac

bluecatmorgana wrote: »

This is going off topic but I feel there should be done more to help gifted children( I'm not sure what exactly) but the way I see it is that these children will be the inventors, professors and developers of the future and we need to encourage this. Also children who are at the high and low end of the scale are more likely to suffer from depression and so in that case I think there should be teaching about emotions and how to handle and communicate them. Just think of all the suicides in Ireland that could be prevented if children were taught how to seek help about their emotional difficulties.

That was excellent and very much ontopic.
If there isn't a teacher who can do this at the very least, hand the students a little card (credit card sized to slip in their wallet/purse) with numbers of organizations they can call.

When I was in secondary school it was your year head that you went to if you had issues. Not sure if they had extra training but you should be good in these situations if you ever want to be a year head.
Hope ye know what I mean by year head, that's just what we called them

byhookorbycrook

bluecatmorgana wrote: »

This is going off topic but I feel there should be done more to help gifted children( I'm not sure what exactly) but the way I see it is that these children will be the inventors, professors and developers of the future and we need to encourage this. Also children who are at the high and low end of the scale are more likely to suffer from depression and so in that case I think there should be teaching about emotions and how to handle and communicate them. Just think of all the suicides in Ireland that could be prevented if children were taught how to seek help about their emotional difficulties.

We teach groups of exceptionally able children in our school despite no DES resources.We are also working a programme (outside of the usual SPHE curriculum) on cognitive behavioual therapy and dealing with negative feelings,again without DES support.Our abilty to do so varies on the learning support caseload from year to year and many schools are not in a position to do so.

bluecatmorgana

I volunteer with adults with intellectual disabilities and I'm hoping to work with children with intellectual disabilities in the near future. Computers are definitely great for learning with them as it acts as a guide as opposed to a person and also it allows them to go at their own pace.
The only thing is I would love there to be more symbols on websites as opposed to words. Most of our lads dont read but they know how to cross the road, so if you were to colour code buttons on the screen green and red they would know that green means go and red could mean go back and stop. To be honest there is a completely untapped market out there for software for children and adults with intellectual disabilities.

lynski

I dont have children in the system yet, first goes in in Sept, so my experience is limited to my own so far.
However one thing I am sure of already is the value of the free pre-school year. I am confident as a parent that my son is ready for school, I am confident I am ready for him going to school. It has been a wonderful few months for him and a great opportunity to see where his strengths and challenges lie.
I have also seen it for my friends, those whose children did have behavioral challenges were fore-warned and could start the process of getting help before school started.
It would be great to see this pre-school year happening on site or near site of the primary schools to ensure even tighter correlation between that and junior infants.

RIRI

A big improvement would be for the schools to open for the whole of the school term.
Aparently we already have the shortest school year in europe. If you take my sons school as an example: they lost almost two weeks due to bad weather, now the mid-term is on 21st & 22nd of feb & then the school is closed again on the Friday for the general election. There has been no change to the school calendar since September so no attempt has been made to make up the lost days.
As a citizen, tax payer & parent I'm not one bit happy about this and intend on taking it to both the board of management & dept of Education.

>rant over