Intercalated Degree

candlegrease

Anybody do this? How did you find it?

Advantages/disadvantaged?

Bella mamma

2 of our class took this option. Neither of the degrees they did are relevant to what they now wish to persue. Also, it is a full year off the payroll so big enough cost IMO, even thou you may think that it is "free".

What are YOU thinking?

tallaght01

If you have an idea what are you'd like to go into, it can be great. 50% of my year did one, and loads of the guys found them really useful when applying for BST (they had anatomy degrees) or pathology specialties (if they'd done biochem/micro/haematology). I know anaesthetics/ICU guys who did physiology and current paeds/O+G trainees who are finding their embryology degrees really useful. Plus they give you a chance to get published, which is useful.

I would have no hesitation in doing it. I had a degree in Biomed before going to med school, but would have done the international public health intercalated degree in london if It hadn't been for that.

A Neurotic

I think I'd be interested in doing one of these but it's hard to know what to go for - neuroscience, molecular medicine, physiology, biochem with immunology...

My college also offers a few M.Scs for the intercalated degree - neuroscience, mol. med, bioengineering, and global health.

I'm guessing a neuroscience degree would be beneficial for someone with an interest in psychiatry? I'm only in 2nd year so no idea really what specialty I'll end up in, but I do have a leaning towards psych.

Piste

I think I'll probably do it, it's only 8 weeks of research that needs to be done in the Summer between 3rd and 4th year so I might as well, given that I'l be using the Summer to study for the USMLEs.

tallaght01

Piste wrote: »

I think I'll probably do it, it's only 8 weeks of research that needs to be done in the Summer between 3rd and 4th year so I might as well, given that I'l be using the Summer to study for the USMLEs.

It involves a year out.

sillymoo

No in RCSI you can do the BMedsci using summer research. I know two who have done it.

tallaght01

sillymoo wrote: »

No in RCSI you can do the BMedsci using summer research. I know two who have done it.

really? an extra degree for 8 weeks research?

HQvhs

tallaght01 wrote: »

really? an extra degree for 8 weeks research?

It involves a 10,000 word thesis, an average of 2.1 across your first three years and, realistically, a lot more than 8 weeks research. A guy I know trying to do it last year spent over 3 months doing research and I'm not sure if he got it or not. Must find out actually!

tallaght01

HQvhs wrote: »

It involves a 10,000 word thesis, an average of 2.1 across your first three years and, realistically, a lot more than 8 weeks research. A guy I know trying to do it last year spent over 3 months doing research and I'm not sure if he got it or not. Must find out actually!

Back in my day, you had to do all that WITH an academic year's worth of final year modules. Barefoot, too.

HQvhs

tallaght01 wrote: »

Back in my day, you had to do all that WITH an academic year's worth of final year modules. Barefoot, too.

And the lectures were given outside in the snow too? :P

Sid_Justice

anyone any opinions on people taking PhDs with medical degrees. in 4 year graduate courses you take 2 years between the science and clinical years (2 and 3) and 'do a phd'.

2Scoops

Sid_Justice wrote: »

anyone any opinions on people taking PhDs with medical degrees. in 4 year graduate courses you take 2 years between the science and clinical years (2 and 3) and 'do a phd'.

No worthwhile mechanism to do that outside of the MD-PhD programs in the US. Totally pointless and unrealistic to attempt independent of the US programs.

Sid_Justice

UL offer it

2Scoops

A 2-year PhD is a waste of time. Nothing worthwhile will be achieved: students will be unceremoniously turned out in 2 years with minimal research experience and probably no pubs. Why bother? I can't see how it can help when it comes to jobs, research or otherwise.

And here's the kicker - would you have to pay money to do this PhD? If yes, run, don't walk, straight into 3rd med!

Bella mamma

tallaght01 wrote: »

If you have an idea what are you'd like to go into, it can be great. 50% of my year did one, and loads of the guys found them really useful when applying for BST (they had anatomy degrees) or pathology specialties (if they'd done biochem/micro/haematology). I know anaesthetics/ICU guys who did physiology and current paeds/O+G trainees who are finding their embryology degrees really useful. Plus they give you a chance to get published, which is useful.

I would have no hesitation in doing it. I had a degree in Biomed before going to med school, but would have done the international public health intercalated degree in london if It hadn't been for that.

You sure you meant 50% and not 5%??? So, in a class of say 140, 70 students took a year out to do a degree in an subject that they most likely would never use? Ours would have been 2 students out of 125/130.

Do you agree that most people do not decide what area to go into until their intern year (at least)?

Just to point out to the OP, et Al., that Anatomy would not be needed to get on the BST scheme. If anyone had an interest in this area, I'd suggest considering a term-time demonstrator postion in The Anatomy Lab, after intern year, getting paid and doing some research and SHO surgery locum

We had one intern interested in Pathology (sparked by a personally tough intern year), thou it's a great speciality

I have done Developmental Biology myself, and again do not think a degree is necessary (thou you're not actually saying this) for OBGYN.

Unless people are sure (and the majority are not) I wouldn't waste a year

Now...............that Public Health degree does sound interesting!

tallaght01

Bella mamma wrote: »

You sure you meant 50% and not 5%??? So, in a class of say 140, 70 students took a year out to do a degree in an subject that they most likely would never use? Ours would have been 2 students out of 125/130.

Do you agree that most people do not decide what area to go into until their intern year (at least)?

Just to point out to the OP, et Al., that Anatomy would not be needed to get on the BST scheme. If anyone had an interest in this area, I'd suggest considering a term-time demonstrator postion in The Anatomy Lab, after intern year, getting paid and doing some research and SHO surgery locum

We had one intern interested in Pathology (sparked by a personally tough intern year), thou it's a great speciality

I have done Developmental Biology myself, and again do not think a degree is necessary (thou you're not actually saying this) for OBGYN.

Unless people are sure (and the majority are not) I wouldn't waste a year

Now...............that Public Health degree does sound interesting!

I trained in the UK. My uni was very old school and (I believe) the intercalated was compulsory at one point. regardless, the intercalated is much more common in the UK than Ireland by the sounds of things. 50% of my class did it, most definitely not 5%. In fact, the cohort in my year when I entered the clinical part of the degree was hugely different, as so many people were coming back from their intercalated, and so many left.

I don't think it's accurate to say people don't use them. From my closest friends who did them we have :

1) International public health: Now doing ID, going to do his PhD in international development soon, and will almost certainly work in international health.

2) Anatomy: Did the BST and surgical exams, and is now a radiology reg.

3) Embryology: Now doing neonates.

I know others, as I've said above, but these are the guys I'm in regular contact, and all have benefited from their intercalated degrees.

Bella mamma

tallaght01 wrote: »

I trained in the UK. My uni was very old school and (I believe) the intercalated was compulsory at one point. regardless, the intercalated is much more common in the UK than Ireland by the sounds of things. 50% of my class did it, most definitely not 5%. In fact, the cohort in my year when I entered the clinical part of the degree was hugely different, as so many people were coming back from their intercalated, and so many left.

I don't think it's accurate to say people don't use them. From my closest friends who did them we have :

1) International public health: Now doing ID, going to do his PhD in international development soon, and will almost certainly work in international health.

2) Anatomy: Did the BST and surgical exams, and is now a radiology reg.

3) Embryology: Now doing neonates.

I know others, as I've said above, but these are the guys I'm in regular contact, and all have benefited from their intercalated degrees.

Thanks for that. I'm not saying people don't use them, I'm saying they are not necessary and there is a greater likelihood of choosing a degree that one will not use per se, than choosing one that WILL be relevant.

I think that you had mentioned that you would not hesitate in doing it (to the OP), but I am saying unless he/she is absolutely sure what they want to do there is no point and time/money can be better spent/earned post grad.

I was at meetings re the intercalated degree being incorporated into the medical program, and it was specifically discussed that the reason for it was to be an a par with the top universities in The UK and The US.

tallaght01

Bella mamma wrote: »

Thanks for that. I'm not saying people don't use them, I'm saying they are not necessary and there is a greater likelihood of choosing a degree that one will not use per se, than choosing one that WILL be relevant.

I think that you had mentioned that you would not hesitate in doing it (to the OP), but I am saying unless he/she is absolutely sure what they want to do there is no point and time/money can be better spent/earned post grad.

I was at meetings re the intercalated degree being incorporated into the medical program, and it was specifically discussed that the reason for it was to be an a par with the top universities in The UK and The US.

It's the whole "no point" thing I take issue with.

It's hard to see how an intercalated degree will be useless, even if they just help with postgrad exams.
A lot of med schools are skimping on pre-clinical science, and I think the junior medics could do with better knowledge in this area.

If only a couple do them in Ireland, then they
are probably more academically inclined, so the skills in research design/lab skills may end up benefitting them significantly later in their careers.

A physiology/biochem degree will be of benefit to most docs. Anatomy/embryology will benefit those who go into surg, O+G, radiology,paeds etc.

I think enough students know that they're surgically or medically inclined at an early enough stage to make a choice. BUt, either way, it can only stand to you I reckon. It certainly won't be a burden, except it will cost you a year of consultant salary (though mebbe the BSc will give you the extra points to get a consultant job earlier, or help you pass the postgrad exams easlier). That's unlikely though. Having said that, I'm enjoying the journey to consultant-dom enough not to worry about arriving.

COI: I'm in a research job now, and my BSc is a huge help to me.

Bella mamma

tallaght01 wrote: »

It's the whole "no point" thing I take issue with.

It's hard to see how an intercalated degree will be useless, even if they just help with postgrad exams.
A lot of med schools are skimping on pre-clinical science, and I think the junior medics could do with better knowledge in this area.

If only a couple do them in Ireland, then they
are probably more academically inclined, so the skills in research design/lab skills may end up benefitting them significantly later in their careers.

A physiology/biochem degree will be of benefit to most docs. Anatomy/embryology will benefit those who go into surg, O+G, radiology,paeds etc.

I think enough students know that they're surgically or medically inclined at an early enough stage to make a choice. BUt, either way, it can only stand to you I reckon. It certainly won't be a burden, except it will cost you a year of consultant salary (though mebbe the BSc will give you the extra points to get a consultant job earlier, or help you pass the postgrad exams easlier). That's unlikely though. Having said that, I'm enjoying the journey to consultant-dom enough not to worry about arriving.

COI: I'm in a research job now, and my BSc is a huge help to me.

My point, quoted in its entirety, was "I am saying unless he/she is absolutely sure what they want to do there is no point and time/money can be better spent/earned post grad".

I'd like to combine it with your comment, or part thereof, "It certainly won't be a burden, except it will cost you a year of consultant salary.........".

WOW! Never thought of that. I was thinking of an SHO salary. :cool: