Labrador puppy diaries - our first days of dog ownership

andreac

Awh wow, shes a beauty:)

With the crate, the only time i would use it during the day is when you arent there to supervise her as it will help with the toilet training.
Say if you have stuff to do in your house or garden, or if you have to go to the shops then i would put her in.
Other than that no need to have her in it too much during the day.
Keep up the good work, sounds like shes doing great.

Quick

Great thread Zulu. I am getting a puppy in May so will be paying closed attention to your experiences!

Zulu

This is great, she's just pottered into her crate now for a nap. no accidents today or yesterday, I'm so proud of her!

Well I'll be here in May quick & happy to answer any questions In the meantime I'll keep posting here for advice

Zulu

Quick question folks: in terms of exercise...

I understand that the rule of thumb is "5mins per month", but 10mins outside doesnt seem enough for her. Granted, I did 20mins yesterday, and she just lay down (as if to say, enough is enough buddy!).

So say I stick to the 10mins - how often does she get the 10mins? At the moment we're doing 10mins after breakfast in the morning, 10mins after lunch, & 10mins before bed.

I take it that doesn't count as 30mins? (I don't want to screw up the poor girls hips)

Any ideas? Thanks.

andreac

Zulu wrote: »

Quick question folks: in terms of exercise...

I understand that the rule of thumb is "5mins per month", but 10mins outside doesnt seem enough for her. Granted, I did 20mins yesterday, and she just lay down (as if to say, enough is enough buddy!).

So say I stick to the 10mins - how often does she get the 10mins? At the moment we're doing 10mins after breakfast in the morning, 10mins after lunch, & 10mins before bed.

I take it that doesn't count as 30mins? (I don't want to screw up the poor girls hips)

Any ideas? Thanks.

As a rule, it really is only 5 mins per month per day. So that means only ten mins in total per day, forced exercise, as in going for a proper walk.

Playtime in the garden is different. Its actual forced exercise is where you have to restrict.

Zulu

Ok, so, we've been taking her for these "walks" after eating to encourage poos, but there not really walks, in that theres a sock, tennis ball, and her favourate toy (a plastic bottle) involved. It's mess/play move on 10 metres, more messing... I take it that counts as play more so than forced exercise?

BTW, thanks a million for all the responses Andreac!

andreac

Just a note, if shes only 8 weeks she shouldnt be going outside for walks as shes not over her vaccinations yet, so she should only be going into your back garden.
Please make sure shes not brought outside until all her vacc's are completed.

Zulu

Yea, that's what the vets said alright. We're not taking her out onto the street or into public (unless she's in our arms going to/from the car). And she's not exposed to other dogs or their "waste".

Bog Bunny

Zulu wrote: »

Ok, so, we've been taking her for these "walks" after eating to encourage poos, but there not really walks, in that theres a sock, tennis ball, and her favourate toy (a plastic bottle) involved. It's mess/play move on 10 metres, more messing... I take it that counts as play more so than forced exercise?

BTW, thanks a million for all the responses Andreac!

Basically an eight weeks old pup will show you clearly when it is tired and it is best to work with her own schedule of sleep, nap, play a little, sleep, sleep, sleep more, play a little, nap, sleep.... and so on :-)
I was always happy when any of my pups would be sleeping, that gave me time to do my own things. If the pup has no other dog to play with, it will just play as much as it wants and then sleep again. I would just play along :-) If you took a stop watch and kept track of her waking moments, you'll be surprised that she actually sleeps at least twenty of the twentyfour hours in a day!

Meteoric

andreac wrote: »

With the shampoo, some dogs can be very sensitive to i wouldnt advise any human shampoo, even baby shampoo. I would get a good puppy shampoo from the pet shop.

Also, theres no need to wash your pup too often. Once a month would be more than enough.

Please don't wash a Labrador once a month using soap/shampoo. Not too bad with a puppy, but once her adult coat starts coming in it's a water resistant double coat, using soap on it regularly will destroy it. It's meant to have natural oils, if you see a lab bouncing in and out of water the water just sheets off, does not really get through to the skin at all. Wash with just water and keep her clean by always having very clean bedding and combing her regularly.
My guy has a very thick double coat and when you wash him with shampoo and break down the natural oils it takes about three days for him to get properly dry, not advisable in cold rainy weather at all. Previous 2 Labs were the same. Puppy coats are different, is only the undercoat so dries well enough but using shampoo too often is still not good.
I remember being at a show once with my last dog and someone cuddled him and said "That's a great shine you have on your dog and he's so clean, which shampoo do you use?" my reply was "Oh he's not had his first bath this year". This was in May (my schedule slipped that year). Cue very confused looking person.
I try for two shampooed baths per year, early spring and late summer. I now use Johnsons Baby shampoo with camomile with half a bottle (for a full grown male lab) diluted down with water up to the top of a 2 Litre jug with a drop or two of Tea tree oil in the jug too. Seems to work well for him. I've used Dog shampoo on the dogs I've had before and the above seems better, I might just have got unlucky in the dog shampoos. I treat the bath like a full body massage for him, really getting down to the skin. He seems to enjoy the massage part of it (not too keen on his skin getting wet as it does not happen too often).
Other than these baths if he gets muddy etc I just sluice him down with pure water the dirt is usually just on the outer hair anyway. If he gets into something really smelly I just tend to treat the spot in question not wash the whole dog.
Sorry for the long post, just my experience with living with various Labs for almost 30 years now.

Bog Bunny

Yep, very good advice. Many owners are not aware that their dogs' coats are self-cleaning, unlike theirs :-)
When my dogs roll in something offensive (badgers' or fox's poop are the jackpot) I only hose the area down, never use shampoo. Hosing down does not open' the coat or destroys the oil, the clear water transports it much better. When you use shampoo you are only rubbing it in deeper and distribute it all over the body.

Neutered dogs often lose this self-cleaning, low maintenance coat, even labs do, so then you might have to shampoo them more often.

andreac

Meteoric wrote: »

Please don't wash a Labrador once a month using soap/shampoo. Not too bad with a puppy, but once her adult coat starts coming in it's a water resistant double coat, using soap on it regularly will destroy it. It's meant to have natural oils, if you see a lab bouncing in and out of water the water just sheets off, does not really get through to the skin at all. Wash with just water and keep her clean by always having very clean bedding and combing her regularly.
My guy has a very thick double coat and when you wash him with shampoo and break down the natural oils it takes about three days for him to get properly dry, not advisable in cold rainy weather at all. Previous 2 Labs were the same. Puppy coats are different, is only the undercoat so dries well enough but using shampoo too often is still not good.
I remember being at a show once with my last dog and someone cuddled him and said "That's a great shine you have on your dog and he's so clean, which shampoo do you use?" my reply was "Oh he's not had his first bath this year". This was in May (my schedule slipped that year). Cue very confused looking person.
I try for two shampooed baths per year, early spring and late summer. I now use Johnsons Baby shampoo with camomile with half a bottle (for a full grown male lab) diluted down with water up to the top of a 2 Litre jug with a drop or two of Tea tree oil in the jug too. Seems to work well for him. I've used Dog shampoo on the dogs I've had before and the above seems better, I might just have got unlucky in the dog shampoos. I treat the bath like a full body massage for him, really getting down to the skin. He seems to enjoy the massage part of it (not too keen on his skin getting wet as it does not happen too often).
Other than these baths if he gets muddy etc I just sluice him down with pure water the dirt is usually just on the outer hair anyway. If he gets into something really smelly I just tend to treat the spot in question not wash the whole dog.
Sorry for the long post, just my experience with living with various Labs for almost 30 years now.

Theres asbol nothing wrong with washing your dog once a month, if it needs it, once you use the correct shampoo for dogs. I only said it as a guide, obviously there is no need to regularly wash a dog unless you show it or its extremely dirty.
I would never use human soap or shampoo, only special shampoo suitable for a dogs coat.
People are allowed to give their advice and opinion if they like, but just be careful what you post, as your info on the docking/cropping thread was completely wrong, none of what you said was true.

thecapedcanine

She looks adorable.
We had two labradors, sadly we lost one and weve only got one left. We got them when they were 8 weeks old and did the whole crate training thing. Labs are so intelligent, they take no time at all to decide that the crate is their bed, or den and they grow to love it. Our two only woke up during the night at the very beginning, and that was only because their little bladders couldnt hold the wee for hours on end. One of us would just get up, open the back door and let them out for their pee, say good boy & good girl, give a pat on the head and back to bed.
Neither dog ever messed in the house after the learned that outside = wee wee and poo. The only time we ever had anything to clean up was when either dog was sick.
The crate was the best thing we ever got, and we eventually could just phase it out as they didnt need it any longer. Unfortunately our chocolate lab passed away last year from a digestive issue, however his sister, the yellow is the best behaved dog in the world. Shes curled up in a ball on a bean bag in the sitting room at the moment, I can hear her snoring from here.
Stick with the crate training for toilet training, dogs wont mess their bed unless they are sick and jusy cant control it. SHe will learn very quickly what to do.
With regards to bathing - our lab gets a bath once a year in the summer time, with baby shampoo in the back garden. We use a paddling pool full of warm water. She loves her baths and the baby shampoo makes her lovely and soft and she smells gorgeous. Labs arent really smelly dogs anyway, so if your pup rolls in something smelly just hose her down. Be careful of using really really cold water though, our girl got 'cold water tail' once from cold water in the sea - her tail just kind of went numb for a couple of days and she couldnt wag it. It gets better itself so its nothing to wory about if it does happen.
Sorry for long post, I could talk about our girl all day - shes my best bud and I just adore her

Zulu

Ok so I've been researching a bit, and there seems to be a common theme in relation to "being the pack leader" - namely ignoring the dog for 5 mins upon returning to the room, not giving attention when they're nudging etc.. I'm eager to establish myself as her pack leader, and hopefully raise a stable, happy dog. I also want her to have an enjoyable puppyhood - she'll be old enough long enough so...

How do I balance letting her enjoy her life, while asserting the ground rules that will lead her to a happy life?

In particular - while she's toilet training, we have her confined to a limited space with access to outside. When she's in her area, she goes bonkers to get out to us (which is fair enough, we're her pack). I ignore this behavour until she calms down. When she's calmed, I go over to her and have a play with her. I might stay with her until she starts napping, then I quietly move her into her bed (with the door open).
This is all well and good, but when she wakes up (food time) she'll go mental again!

We'll ignore her again, but she won't go without a fight & it's 20/30 mins of barking and charging the baby gates, and chewing the gates etc..

Should we have her area outside of our living room, so we're not a constant reminder? But if we do that, then she's totally separated from the pack & that doesn't seem right/fair - plus - whens she's toilet trained & not going bezerk, she'll be welcome to share that very space.

Am I doing something wrong? or is this just going to be a longer battle of wits?

Cherry Blossom

Zulu wrote: »

Ok so I've been researching a bit, and there seems to be a common theme in relation to "being the pack leader" - namely ignoring the dog for 5 mins upon returning to the room, not giving attention when they're nudging etc.. I'm eager to establish myself as her pack leader, and hopefully raise a stable, happy dog. I also want her to have an enjoyable puppyhood - she'll be old enough long enough so...

Very Ceaser-esque, there are other trainers also though, read as many as you can and develop your own methods to suit yourself and your pup. There is no 'puppy bible' and you seem to have enough sence to be able to trust your own instincts sometimes! Find something that works for you and your situation, then be consistant with it. Nothing is going to work straight away and there are no instant fixes so don't expect instant results.

How do I balance letting her enjoy her life, while asserting the ground rules that will lead her to a happy life?

Just decide what basic boundries you are going to have, is she going to allowed on furniture, is she going to be allowed to jump up on people. Start getting her into a routine that suits you.

In particular - while she's toilet training, we have her confined to a limited space with access to outside. When she's in her area, she goes bonkers to get out to us (which is fair enough, we're her pack). I ignore this behavour until she calms down. When she's calmed, I go over to her and have a play with her. I might stay with her until she starts napping, then I quietly move her into her bed (with the door open).
This is all well and good, but when she wakes up (food time) she'll go mental again!

We'll ignore her again, but she won't go without a fight & it's 20/30 mins of barking and charging the baby gates, and chewing the gates etc..

Has she actually had any accidents in the house that were her fault? I'd start teaching her that her actions will lead to something specific e.g. every single time I bark I get taken outside . . . eventually . . . I don't have to pee and I don't want to go out so maybe I'll just shut up. There is no problem having her in the room with you as long as you can recognise the signs that she needs to go and are alert enough that you will see them, (teaching barking as a sign means you notice even when you are engrossed in the tv or something). This also deals with the two huge issues of noise and toilet training in the one go

Should we have her area outside of our living room, so we're not a constant reminder? But if we do that, then she's totally separated from the pack & that doesn't seem right/fair - plus - whens she's toilet trained & not going bezerk, she'll be welcome to share that very space.

Am I doing something wrong? or is this just going to be a longer battle of wits?

You will probably notice very little difference from one day to the next but if you keep a little diary with just a few one liners every day, you will notice a difference from one week to the next.

Cherry Blossom

Oh and she's barking when she wakes up because 8 week old puppies have to pee as soon as they wake up, because you aren't taking her straight outside she's being forced to hold it and it's uncomfortable, listen to her, she's trying to tell you. It does take a little while to figure out their routines and behaviour and get used learning their language but you will figure it out quicker than you think.

Zulu

Yea, i'm not convinced it's a "pee" bark. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's not. I open the door as soon as she wakes and sometimes she has a very little one, but it's not that barking I'm talking about - more the "I want to play" " come over here" "let me out" barking.

In terms of peeing: she's not barking for a pee today (or yesterday) so we had 2 accidents by the door. I'm not picking up on her "i need a pee" signs. Any "common" pee signals? She's not peeing after taking water - not for a good 10/15mins anyway.

In terms of poos - she goes straight out to the poo box.

andreac

To be honest, i wouldnt be waiting for her to tell you she needs to pee at this age and stage. You need to bring her out more regularly and encourage her to go and reward her and not wait til shes bursting then has to go inside.

Accidents only happen when we dont bring the dog out in time, so i wouldnt wait for a signal at the moment. If the accidents are at the door well then shes obviously going to the door to be let out and you arent seeing her quick enough as she is trying to tell you she needs to go.

Regular trips outside and after all the usual times, a sleep, drink, play session. You say she doesnt pee until 15 mins after a drink say, well i would bring her outside the minute she has a drink and use a code word and wait until she goes and praise, praise and more praise.

She will soon get the message that outside is where she should go and later on, when she eventually tell you she needs to go out, by sitting at the door, whimpering, pawing at the door and so on.

Cherry Blossom

Zulu wrote: »

I'm not picking up on her "i need a pee" signs. Any "common" pee signals? She's not peeing after taking water - not for a good 10/15mins anyway.

10 - 15 minutes after drinking is when they have to pee. As soon as they wake up, after a play session, you take her out and wait till she goes it might take 2 seconds or it might take 2 hours, you don't leave her out, you stay with her. I assumed you were already aware of the 'key pee times' perhaps wrongly so.

Zulu wrote: »

had 2 accidents by the door.

Going to the door is a signal that she wants out, if not barking then you are going to have to teach her some other cue to make doors open as she can't open it herself.

Cherry Blossom

I posted a load of links for helpful threads on house training on this one, rather than posting them all again, they're all listed in this one.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056118848

Zulu

So last night she slept through from 11pm to 7am (our normal wake up time) - good girl. She woke me at 7 for toilet. So out for toilet, and then I put her back into her crate (while I showered, got dressed and sorted breakfast.
My plan was to let her calm down before returning to the room - but she was non-stop barking & I has showered & dressed etc. (20/30mins). I had to get breakfast ready so I returned to the room (which only excited her more) but I ignored her until she calmed down. Once she'd calmed down, I gave her her breakfast.
Cue more barking. So I ignored her again until calm. Now I'm in playing with her but I know as soon as I leave - more barking! This is the barking I'm trying to limit.

In terms of training - yea I've been reading Ceasar alright, but also some others (a stella smith & a sally bergh-roose, and some other dvds I got from a friend). I'd welcome any recommendations

tk123

Zulu you could try giving her the breakfast in a kong while you shower to keep her quiet/busy. I soak my guys dry food, mash it up and fill the kongs with it and it'd keep him busy for a good 20-30 mins. If you make it up the day before and leave it in the fridge to set and it'll take longer for her to get it all out. Our morning routine (my guy is 19months now) is I get up, let him out to the loo, give him his breakfast, he runs to his bed to get some kong paste on his nylabone then he goes asleep while I get dressed etc.

Cherry Blossom

Zulu wrote: »

In terms of training - yea I've been reading Ceasar alright, but also some others (a stella smith & a sally bergh-roose, and some other dvds I got from a friend). I'd welcome any recommendations

I like Victoria Stilwell, she's less focused on dominating the dog and more about working with them. I find she inspires me to come up with my own ideas along the same lines. Don't get too caught up in the theory and what you are 'supposed' to do, the best lessons you will get from your dog!

Zulu

Ok so al is going fairly well. Our routine is fairly established at this stage. I get up to let her toilet sometime between 2 & 3am, & other than that she sleeps from 9/10pm to 7am.

All is going well with toilet training. We have a "get busy" command, and a special spot. When we take her out there and give the command she squats as if she's peeing, although sometimes I'm convinced she's faking it eitherway it's good.

I'd really appricate some help /advice with the barking though. She barks for attention (and jumps up) - both of these we're eager to stop. We want to teach her not to jump up. And only to bark to be allowed outside for toilet.

Currently she barks when: she's put in her crate (for about 15mins - I record her with video); when she wants a chase; when she wants attention; when we leave the room; when she's about to get her food.

For the food, we can stop her. We don't give her the bowl until she "sit"'s. She know's to sit down & quieten or the food won't come.

But I've no idea how to stop the barks for attention (we've been ignoring it for a week now, but she's not changing) or how to stop her barking when we leave the room.

Also, the jumping up, everytime she does it, we give a firm "down" and push her down off the coffee table/couch/arm chair/person, but she's not changing her behavour.

It's occurs to me that we are doing something wrong communicating our rules to her, but I'm agast to know what it is.

Any ideas/clues/advice guys?

<edit> I've come across this nugget:

internet advice wrote:

Another technique to make it clear to your dog that you want it to stop barking is to hold his muzzle with one hand and the collar with the other and hold his mouth shut. At same time use a command like "Quiet!" or "Hush!" The two hands are to prevent him shaking your hand away. Hold until he ceases trying to get free. When he becomes calm and has accepted your authority, you can let go and give him affection.

any opinions? Is this something I should try?

Zulu

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

I like Victoria Stilwell, she's less focused on dominating the dog and more about working with them. ...

thats gas, I didn't know I knew her until I googled her name. My wife & Chloe both watch "it's me or the dog" and love it. I watch it when I'm not in work!

Skadi

We don't ignore our puppy when she barks for attention. We go and play with her for a few minutes and normally our older dog comes and plays too or else the puppy starts to play by herself. If she is tired then we just sit down by her bed and she comes alongs and lies down to go to sleep.

This always seems to work. We figure that spending 5-10 mins with her is better than having to spend time ignoring her or having to tell her to be quiet. She works herself into a state when she gets upset so better to stop her from getting into this state in the first place.

Bog Bunny

Zulu wrote: »

Also, the jumping up, everytime she does it, we give a firm "down" and push her down off the coffee table/couch/arm chair/person, but she's not changing her behavour.

It's occurs to me that we are doing something wrong communicating our rules to her, but I'm agast to know what it is.

Any ideas/clues/advice guys?

<edit> I've come across this nugget: any opinions? Is this something I should try?

Re jumping up. It is an attention grabbing behaviour, any kind of attention is welcome, so even the sound of your voice andeye contact is enough to prove to the puppy that it can get attention. Any form of contact, even the pushing away or the knee-butt on the chest that was advised in old school training manuals is totally counterproductive. (That is really dangerous; you can break a dog's sternum or ribs or hit the throat. It won't jump up afterwards, for sure, but is that what you'd want?)

As a general rule, dogs repeat behaviour that brings rewards, they stop bhaviour that does not elicit any kind of reaction. The problem with this is that we may not even be aware that we show reaction like turning our head or moving or looking. Dogs are really excellent at picking up subtle body language.

When your puppy jumps up cross your arms in front of your chest, look up at the sky, say nothing at all. Let pup jump up as long as it likes, be still, don't look, don't even move - just be a tree. You'll find that pup is puzzled, will probably do a few steps back, even sit down with a question mark in his face. And that's the moment you wake up, qickly bend down, pat it on the side and be generous with praise. If pup jumps up immediately, become a silent tree again, wait until pup stops, repeat patting and praise as long as pup has all four legs on ground. Repeat as often as necessary, but you'll find the penny will have dropped after a while. Then you can add a cue, like the words 'Thats a fine SIT'
What many dog owners don't realise is that they mustn't forget to praise their dog in one form or another for good or wanted behaviour. That way you mark the moment of good behaviour and can shape it further.

Behaviour that does not yield any reward will not be repeated much.
Everybody in the household should be clued in to this, otherwise pup will quickly learn who is jump-uppable and who not and the jumping up as a learnt behaviour won't stop.

As to the anti-barking internet advice, I'm not so sure about it. It will certainly stop barking for good when you have suffocated the dog <kidding here>
I'd do the same as with the jumping up; ignore the barking completely, wait until there is a distinct pause, then bend down, pat and say 'That's SHUSH / QUIET / PSSSST now'.... Same principle applies, although I must admit, it's harder to un-teach barking. What seems to work best is rather than stopping the barking you work to teach your pup to bark only on cue. When the cue doesn't come, the dog doesn't bark....

Zulu

Ok great advice on the jumping up on a person, but what about the couch/coffee table? (I get the impression this is done to have a looksee as to whats going on up there)

In terms of the barking - i felt it may have been tough, so instead of starting it, we went with a "can-o-pennies" last night. Everytime she barked, I gave it a good rattle & a stern "enough", and she went quiet. When she was quiet (with a puzzeled look on her) I gave prase, saying "good girl, that's quiet". I think we'll stick with this approach for a while. Fingers crossed.

Zulu

ok so things are reverting a little unfortunatly.
We got her booster shot on Sunday, and since then, it's like she's been on speed. She's far more hyper. I rang the vet, and they said, that drozyness would be expected, but not hyperactivity; that this could be just a stage...

In terms of reverting, we had her quiet at night, until 7am when she was due to get up, but for the last two nights, she's barked for an hour after I got up to let her out to the toilet at 4am. Last week she'd whine for 2mins & go back to sleep.

She has no problem going to bed - "get up to bed" at 10pm and she trotts off to her crate happy out.

I'm considering getting & using this: training collar to use when she's barking (after I've let her out to the toilet) as I'm getting concerned about the neighbours.

Any advice/opinions?

tk123

Zulu wrote: »

Any advice/opinions?

Honestly? I don't mean to critise or offend but I think you're expecting too much too soon. A bark collar for a young puppy is just crazy imo - you're punishing her for wanting to be with you. It's normal for puppies to be hyper or get lonely and bark etc she's still a baby. If you're worried about the neighbors have you considered moving her into/nearer your room for a few weeks? This is what I did with my guy as the walls are paper thin and i didn't want him bothering them and he didn't turn into an alpha dog or take my bed over etc etc. The puppy will become easier to train as she gets older. My dog is trained using positive reinforcement no shaking pennies or bark collars etc. He's 19 months now and I've learnt the best tool for training him is time and patience not a quick fix option.
Again I hope I'm not coming across as telling you off etc. Puppies are hard work - especially the first few weeks!
Also have you thought of puppy classes? If you're in Dublin dog training Ireland are brilliant and the guys will give you loads of advice etc. And if you do them on a sat we might bump into you!