Biggest Bear... EVER!

Galvasean

Why is it that when I look at this I am reminded of The Big Show?

There's a new titleholder for the biggest, baddest bear ever found.

A prehistoric South American giant short-faced bear tipped the scales at up to 3,500 pounds (1,600 kilograms) and towered at least 11 feet (3.4 meters) standing up, according to a new study.

The previous heavyweight was a North American giant short-faced bear—a related extinct species—that weighed up to 2,500 pounds (1,134 kilograms). The largest bear on record in modern times was a 2,200-pound (998-kilogram) polar bear shot in Alaska in the 19th century.

The South American giant short-faced bear roamed its namesake continent abcaout 500,000 to 2 million years ago and would have been the largest and most powerful meat-eater on land at the time, scientists say

Image by Blaine Schubert

Read more here.

Capt'n Midnight

Still think Megatherium is bad-ass , bigger and had bigger claws

Gunsfortoys

Had to have been a scavenger.

Adam Khor

There are remains of another, older prehistoric bear that was probably much bigger. I remember they estimated its weight to be around three tons!

By the way, recently Arctotherium remains were found in a cenote (sinkhole) in south eastern Mexico- nobody knew it lived so far north. I guess South American Giant Short Faced Bear is no longer a correct name!

Kess73

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Had to have been a scavenger.

Is that you, Horner?:p

Galvasean

Adam Khor wrote: »

There are remains of another, older prehistoric bear that was probably much bigger. I remember they estimated its weight to be around three tons!

Half the weight of a Tyrannosaurus. That must have been an impressive beast.

Rubecula

Tell you what, at that size I just know what it ate. Anything it darn well wanted to eat.:D

There can't have been any other predator around to challenge it surely?

Adam Khor

A Smilodon pride is the only thing I can think of...

Rubecula

Yes a pride may have been the only thing... Was Smilodon around at the same time? I thought it evolved a bit later?

Mind you I am not sure at what age this beastie was around anyway. I get the impression it was a very long time ago for mammals.

Adam Khor

Arctotherium and Smilodon are both from the Pleistocene, so yes, they coexisted. :>

Rubecula

I think I can vaguely remember a tv documentary about the short faced bear and the North American Lion being forced into coexisting by climate change. It showed a reconstruction of the two fighting over a dead bison I think.

(Incidentally, just to change subject slightly, back in the 1800's there was a thing in America where they pitted wild animals against each other apparently and they imported African lions to fight against Brown bears of the Grizzly type. The bear won 100% of the time, or at least that is what was said to happen)

Adam Khor

Yes, lions do poorly against bears because there have been no bears in Africa for a very, very long time... tigers on the other hand coexist with bears in most of their home lands, and include them in their menu.

Back to the prehistoric animals, I remember the documentary you mention, it's called Jurassic Fight Club, and it is very bad XD Almost as bad as Animal Face Off from Discovery Channel.
But yeah, American lion, Short Faced Bear and Smilodon all coexisted :> And there's some evidence suggesting that the American lion was a lone hunter (or that it hunted in couples at most) while the sabertooth was probably a pride animal (as if it needed to be scarier!)

Rubecula

No link I am afraid but I do remember somewhere reading that Smilodon was comparitvely low in intelligence to other big predators of the time, judged on the size of it's brain.

Wish I could find that link somewhere.:o

Kess73

Adam Khor wrote: »

Yes, lions do poorly against bears because there have been no bears in Africa for a very, very long time... tigers on the other hand coexist with bears in most of their home lands, and include them in their menu.
Back to the prehistoric animals, I remember the documentary you mention, it's called Jurassic Fight Club, and it is very bad XD Almost as bad as Animal Face Off from Discovery Channel.
But yeah, American lion, Short Faced Bear and Smilodon all coexisted :> And there's some evidence suggesting that the American lion was a lone hunter (or that it hunted in couples at most) while the sabertooth was probably a pride animal (as if it needed to be scarier!)

Tigers are larger and stronger than Lions though, plus the bear they cross paths with the most is the sloth bear which is generally far lighter than a tiger, and less aggressive than a tiger.

Siberian tigers do cross paths with brown bears as well, but there have been recorded cases of the brown bear killing the tiger as well as the tiger killing the brown bear. But again we have the largest sub species of Tiger in the Siberian Tigher taking on a sub species of the brown bear that is nowhere near the maximum size a brown bear can get to.

A 500lbs Tiger taken on a 500 lbs bear is a lot different than a 500lbs to 600lbs Smilodon taken on 2,500lbs to 3,500lbs bear.

Galvasean

Animal Face-Off... Jurassic Fight Club.... Car crash telly.

Galvasean

Why can't we all just get along?

Sid_Justice

The above picture is so tragic.

Wrt big bears versus big cats, I think they mentioned on Qi that records from the roman collessum era games, the big bears regularly won the battles by crushing the cat skulls with their big paws.

Adam Khor

Rubecula wrote: »

No link I am afraid but I do remember somewhere reading that Smilodon was comparitvely low in intelligence to other big predators of the time, judged on the size of it's brain.

Wish I could find that link somewhere.:o

Meh, I wouldn´t give much credit to that. The whole dumb Smilodon, smart American lion myth comes from the fact that Smilodon remains were often found (in huge numbers) in the La Brea tar pits, while American lion remains (and those of other predators such as jaguars and cougars) were seldom found.
Paleontologists assumed that Smilodon was a brutish animal that would go after trapped mammoths and other herbivores and die in the tar pits as well, while the other predators were too smart for this.
Now we know that Smilodon were most likely social hunters, living in prides like modern day lions (although with a different social structure- long story). This would account for the larger number of Smilodon remains (the other large carnivore found in large numbers in the tar pits is the Dire Wolf, also a social animal).

So, basically, it is not that they were dumb (in fact, they probably needed to be very smart if they were hunting as a pride), they were simply more abundant.

As for the animal face-off-ish stuff, I won´t continue that way, I would hate it if this became one of those endless threads about who would win :S

Yitzhak Rabin

Adam Khor wrote: »

(although with a different social structure- long story).

I'm listening!

Adam Khor

yekahS wrote: »

I'm listening!

Well, basically, when compared to lions, Smilodon doesn´t seem to have much sexual dimorphism (as in, males and females are practically the same size, have equally long fangs). There also seem to be as many males as there are females. If Smilodon was indeed a social animal (as fossil finds seem to indicate), it probably had a different social structure from the lion's "pride". Some have suggested that we should call it a "pack" instead of a pride, because it would be more similar to a pack of wolves, with a similar number of similarly-sized males and females, and perhaps a hierarchical system unlike lion prides were there is no real hierarchy and there are only a few large males (sometimes only one), and many, smaller females.

On the other hand, the so-called American lion (Panthera atrox) which coexisted with Smilodon, did show sexual dimorphism with males being much larger than females. This doesn´t mean necessarily that they lived in lion-like prides, though, since solitary cats such as tigers, leopards and jaguars (and house cats too) show the same differences between the sexes. It makes more sense (to me anyways) that Smilodon were the pack hunters of that ecosystem while the atrox were the solitary hunters thus avoiding competition.
Also, it was recently found that despite its name, the American lion may not be a lion at all, but a completely separate kind of pantherine, probably (some say) more related to the jaguar than to the lion. Of course this means that now we have no idea what its external appearance was.

Galvasean

Hmmm, does this seem familair to you Adam?
http://listverse.com/2010/12/02/10-huge-prehistoric-cats/

Adam Khor

Yes of course, I wrote it

Galvasean

Thought I recognised your candor. I suppose you did this week's list as well?

Adam Khor

The one on venomous snakes? No, that one isn´t mine... but check out the 10 Lesser Known Venomous Snakes and 10 Unusual and Amazing snakes lists, those are all mine too

Galvasean

I meant the one about Dinosaurs that weren't what they were.

Adam Khor

Oooh, that one! Yes, mine too

Rubecula

Adam. I clicked on Galvasean's link and found the srticle very informative. I have never even heard of a couple of those cats. Are you a professional in some way? Or is the question rude?

Adam Khor

Rubecula wrote: »

Adam. I clicked on Galvasean's link and found the srticle very informative. I have never even heard of a couple of those cats. Are you a professional in some way? Or is the question rude?

Jeez, sorry for the very late response! Never saw your post until now...

I am no professional; I'm just a kid who loves to read I've written some articles for magazines, newspapers and some websites, and I draw prehistoric life constantly (which has led some people to call me a paleoartist even though I don´t consider myself as one), and I've also written a couple books that desperately need a publisher, but other than that I'm just an amateur, perpetually awed by the genius of Nature and its creatures.

Rubecula

No problem in a late response it is only a moment compared to geological time isn't it?

I am impressed by your knowledge and drawing talent though. (Actually I am as jealous as heck):D

It is good to see you have kept up with all of this in the intervening time since I asked. I reckon you could get a degree in the subject without much effort you know. Ever thought of doing so and becoming a professional? You may be able to make big bucks from your interests.

Galvasean

Tell us more of these books. what kind of demograph are you aiming for?

Alvin T. Grey

Galvasean wrote: »

Tell us more of these books. what kind of demograph are you aiming for?

He's an author.
The answer invariably is:
"What ever buggers will pay for it".:D