Beware Irish Shipping/Langan Couriers for shipping personal effects

Xiney

Naming and shaming:


Owing to the economic crisis, my husband and I recently relocated from Ireland to Canada.

We shipped 2.7 cubic metres of personal effects, obtaining quotes from various brokers and decided to go with Irish Shipping.

Personal effects were essentially books, dvds, and clothes etc. We also shipped our coffee table. We would not have sold it for anywhere near its value (we paid €200 for it, and it was solid wood so we got a very good deal at the time) and it would have cost only €62 to ship it based on the rate quoted, so we did.

Unfortunately, Irish Shipping deigned it necessary to try and save some money by ripping the legs off our table. They utterly destroyed it, they lost three of its legs and what remains is a pile of broken up wood.


They are refusing to compensate us, despite the fact that I have sent them the exact parts of the applicable acts that they have violated:

Mr Williams,

I have already been in contact with you to try and resolve the issue of willful damage to our personal property during the course of our contract with you. Namely I am referring to the destruction of our coffee table via the violent removal of its legs and the loss of three of these.

Under Section 39 (b) of the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980 the consumer can expect:

that he will supply the service with due skill, care and diligence

And under Section 26 of the Irish International Freight Association (IIFA) Standard Trading Conditions 1989 Edition,

The Company shall perform its duties with a reasonable degree of care, diligence, skill and judgement.

It is my opinion that reasonable care and diligence were not undertaken in the case of my contract with you.

The value of the table was 200 euro and the value of shipping paid for it was 62 euro. Under consumer law my contract is with the supplier of the service and as such I am writing to you to seek a refund of 262 euro.

Sincerely,

Christine ****

They are no longer answering my emails.

I am of the opinion that they intend to ignore this since they assume that since we have emigrated we can not chase them up in small claims.

Here's the photo:



So whatever you do, if you're leaving Ireland, don't trust Irish Shipping to ship your personal effects with any amount of care, diligence, skill or judgement!

who the fug

Did you take any insurance out?

Xiney

Yes, we paid for insurance, but even if we hadn't, the relevant acts were violated.

looksee

That is total vandalism! Presumably your insurance company would chase Irish Shipping?

Hogzy

Small claims court all the way.

tommy21

Hey Xiney - hope you get satisfaction - you've done a lot for boards users particularly in State Benefits forum - if its of help I would be (and I'm sure others) willing to send them an email/letter asking why they treat their customers in this manner (perhaps referring them to this thread)?

Tar.Aldarion

Really hope they get dealt with for this, some company policy to be doing that...

Xiney

Got an email from them, someone must have alerted them to the fact that it's on boards/reddit/facebook

Our ref : 1126185.

2 pallets stc 22 Boxes.

From : Galway

To: Ontario.

Dear Christine Hanley,

Please be advised that the file for the above shipment has been brought to my attention as it is subject to claim due to apparent damage.

Firstly, it is very unfortunate that your shipment is not to your satisfaction and I appreciate your comments in relation to this matter.

We offered you insurance cover for loss /theft only which you accepted which was levied at 4% of the value of the goods.You have signed our documentation accordingly to verify same. Therefore the packing was your responsibility and unfortunately all good are carried in accordance with our standard conditions of trading.We at no time tampered with,unpacked or reconstructed your shipment / packing. We shipped the goods as per your packing and supply, and unfortunately they have apparently been damaged.

I have passed this matter to our insurers, even though it will come within the excess of any policy.

I expect my insurers to refer you to your own insurers for settlement of this claim on the basis of my comments above.

Furthermore I would like to bring to your attention , part of a statement written to me from one of my staff members , Mr. David Williams, whereby you stated that “ You design websites and that you will design a site where the first thing everbody will see is the damage apparently done to your stuff”.

Mr. Wiliams advised you that he was terminating the conversation on the basis of bullying/ threatening behavior by your goodself.

I have lodged the above statement with my solicitor.

Should you require any further information, please do not hesitate in contacting me and in the meantime when I have any further information , I will contact you at the above email address.


<CONTACT DETAILS SNIPPED BY BOARDS.IE>

- All business transacted in accordance with International Freight Association (IIFA) Irish Standard Trading Conditions 1989 Edition.

Xiney

My reply:

Mr Wixted,

I am aware the claim is within the excess of the insurance policy.

Actually I am now following the line of reasoning that the following acts, as described in the previous email sent two weeks ago, were violated:

Section 39 (b) of the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980 the consumer can expect:

that he will supply the service with due skill, care and diligence

And under Section 26 of the Irish International Freight Association (IIFA) Standard Trading Conditions 1989 Edition,
The Company shall perform its duties with a reasonable degree of care, diligence, skill and judgement.

Regardless of insurance, ripping the legs off my coffee table, losing three of them, reducing the rest to expensive firewood, would not be what I would call exercising any degree of care, diligence, skill and judgement.

Furthermore, I do not intend to publish anything libelous on the internet. However, as I am sure you are aware, it is not libellous to tell the truth.

If your company agrees to refund me the 262 euro that I have asked for, I will halt my efforts to get the truth about your company out to my friends and colleagues.


Sincerely,

Christine Hanley

Hogzy

OP does the insurance policy you took out cover damage caused by the person shipping the goods as well as their agents?

91011

Why, oh why, oh why do so many people threaten companies with publishing / joe duffy / boards etc etc on a first phone call??

Yes you were treated badly and the cost of goods should be re-imbursed, but using threats to create a website / publish a website which would defame a company, will not endear them to you.

Politeness until such a time there is no other option, will always get the best response.

Xiney

I assure you that it has been almost a month since my first contact with them about this issue. I haven't gotten any joy from talking to them directly so yes, I decided to take other avenues.

Xiney

Hogzy wrote: »

OP does the insurance policy you took out cover damage caused by the person shipping the goods as well as their agents?

The goods and services act states that I have to seek redress from the company with which I had a contract.

The insurance isn't even an issue right now - my excess was 300 euro. But I feel that since they deliberately ripped the legs off the table, I should be compensated anyway. If you paid someone to move your personal effects and they broke something purposefully, that's wrong whether you have insurance or not.

dilallio

91011 wrote: »

Why, oh why, oh why do so many people threaten companies with publishing / joe duffy / boards etc etc on a first phone call??

Maybe I missed something but where does it say there was a threat on the FIRST phone call ???

Xiney

In fact, I never threatened anyone. I did get frustrated at one stage and, while remaining civil, let him know that I was able to write about it on the internet. It was a last ditch effort to get them to refund me before I actually took any drastic measures... I think if you're considering something like this it's actually common courtesy to give a company one last opportunity to do right by you. Full disclosure, and all that.

Hogzy

Xiney wrote: »

The insurance isn't even an issue right now - my excess was 300 euro. But I feel that since they deliberately ripped the legs off the table, I should be compensated anyway. If you paid someone to move your personal effects and they broke something purposefully, that's wrong whether you have insurance or not.

True they should have told you that the table couldnt not be shipped if anything

cormie

Have you any idea under what circumstances the legs were removed and why? To be honest, from the image of the table, it certainly doesn't look like a table of which the legs can be removed, at all. Is the bottom storage shelf still intact? It's more likely it was mistakenly damaged (due to negligence or a genuine mistake) as surely nobody would try and remove legs from such a table to try and save space

Abelloid

That table hasn't got a leg to stand on.


(sorry)

penexpers

Even if you were civil, saying that you were going to publish a (potentially libelous) website could come across as threatening. If they have that in a statement then I suspect you won't get anywhere in the SCC.

Xiney

cormie wrote: »

Have you any idea under what circumstances the legs were removed and why? To be honest, from the image of the table, it certainly doesn't look like a table of which the legs can be removed, at all. Is the bottom storage shelf still intact? It's more likely it was mistakenly damaged (due to negligence or a genuine mistake) as surely nobody would try and remove legs from such a table to try and save space

The amount of force required to shear the wood of the remaining leg I have would have had to have been deliberately applied, unless it was dropped from a great height (not simply by people carrying it)

The rest of the legs would have been removed deliberately even if one popped off from being dropped.

The bottom storage shelf is intact but not pictured.

Xiney

penexpers wrote: »

Even if you were civil, saying that you were going to publish a (potentially libelous) website could come across as threatening. If they have that in a statement then I suspect you won't get anywhere in the SCC.

The truth is not libellous.

tommy21

I know Xiney (from boards at least ) not to be a chancer so obviously I am coloured in her favour. I can tell you this, any company that does not look after its customers, even without knowing the full story (always two sides), I will simply avoid. Not too late for redemption of course, but why undergo such hassle when there are so many other similar services out there?

tricky D

Xiney wrote: »

The truth is not libellous.

Unless you can prove this you are wide open to a defamation action.

Doing this exercise in this medium is a Bad Idea.

Xiney

Oryx

Therefore the packing was your responsibility and unfortunately all good are carried in accordance with our standard conditions of trading.We at no time tampered with,unpacked or reconstructed your shipment / packing. We shipped the goods as per your packing and supply, and unfortunately they have apparently been damaged.

The bit above seems to be saying they didnt touch the table, and that damage was caused because it was improperly packed. How was the table prepared for transit?

tommy21

Oryx wrote: »

The bit above seems to be saying they didnt touch the table, and that damage was caused because it was improperly packed. How was the table prepared for transit?

Yes that might at least make it clearer. Are you saying that you packed it up Xiney, gave it to them to ship, and unpacked it again to find it in a different condition?

dahamsta

On the subject of libel:

a) Nobody ever mention the word, not even the company themselves. Unless the OP has deliberately falsified their email, they quoted the OP as saying they "will design a site where the first thing everbody will see is the damage apparently done to [their] stuff". A photo isn't a libel. It's a photo. End of story.

b) The offence isn't even called libel any more, the two offences of libel and slander are now referred to collectively as "defamation".

Finally, the OP clearly stated, more than once, that they have emigrated; so recommendations of taking a case in small claims demonstrate a similar level of ignorance, or perhaps the attention span of a gnat.

OP, it would probably be a good idea to state how the items were packed in the first post, after that I wouldn't bother replying to the obvious nincompoops.

Xiney

I put a blanket over the table, followed by a double layer of heavy duty bubble wrap, secured this with cotton twine (the kind you can buy at tescos)

I put each of the legs in the middle of a hand-towel sized towel, and used packing tape and twine to attach it to the leg.

This was then loaded into the small cube van they sent to pick it up.


At some stage, the table was broken up and put onto a pallet and wrapped up and that is how I recieved it.

Oryx

By that reckoning, what they say could be true then. The table could have been damaged in transit, as the legs werent protected by any outer box or such. Thats what the breaks look like to me, like it fell or got crushed, not like someone was trying to take it apart, tbh.

Hogzy

OP was it still in the EXACT packaging when you received it in canada?

cormie

Xiney wrote: »

The amount of force required to shear the wood of the remaining leg I have would have had to have been deliberately applied, unless it was dropped from a great height (not simply by people carrying it)

The rest of the legs would have been removed deliberately even if one popped off from being dropped.

The bottom storage shelf is intact but not pictured.

The table doesn't appear to be of such a solid construction that it would require deliberate destruction to break. The individual pieces are indeed solid wood but it appears to be put together with dowels. Of course this doesn't excuse the fact that it's broken, but I can't imagine anyone in this line of work deliberately breaking legs to make something fit better and thinking they will get away with it. My guess is that it was loaded beneath items that were too heavy and the legs simply gave in, that it was packed too tightly or something pushed against it with too much force for a tighter squeeze that subsequently lead to the legs breaking.

I simply can't fathom anyone giving the go ahead to violently remove legs of a table to save them money.

Regardless of how it actually happened, the fact is, it's broken now and you are looking for compensation. I believe that if as you say "At some stage, the table was broken up and put onto a pallet and wrapped up and that is how I recieved it. " then it is their responsibility once they repack the item. However, it may be best to approach it with a bit more leeway other than assuming "Irish Shipping deigned it necessary to try and save some money by ripping the legs off our table.", "via the violent removal of its legs".