Tortoise wanted for TV shoot

nyummy9

Hi

I'm looking for a Tortoise for half a day next week (the scheduled date is Mon 14th Feb at the moment!) for a TV shoot of a childrens Television series based on the northside of Dublin.

If anyone's interested in bringing their Tortoise along, let me know or if you can suggest any avenues that I should look into for this. The scene simply consists of a man who is mad about animals and in his sitting room has a tropical fish tank, a rabbit hutch and 'a tortoise'.

Please feel free to contact me on 087 6250081 or send me a PM for more details.

All the best
Naomi

Cookie_Monster

Tortoises should be hibernating at this time of year so should not be available.

Shanao

Not necessarily, my tortoise is too young, and was too badly treated before i got her for me to put her through hibernation; she would most certainly die. I know a few other people who dont put their's into hibernation for the first two years either as it can kill them if they're not built up enough for it. There should be one or two around.

nyummy9

Thanks for the advice about the hibernation. Maybe i'll look into getting a large turtle either- it would work just as well with the script. Anyone here have a turtle that they'd like to be a star???

lrushe

Shanao wrote: »

Not necessarily, my tortoise is too young, and was too badly treated before i got her for me to put her through hibernation; she would most certainly die. I know a few other people who dont put their's into hibernation for the first two years either as it can kill them if they're not built up enough for it. There should be one or two around.

Yep I have a 5 year old Russian Tortoise, I have never hibernated him, nor do I intend on ever doing it, too dangerous in my opinion if you don't know what you are doing.

Cookie_Monster

hmmm. fair enough. The one we've had for 20+ years goes away into a cardboard box in the shed every year. Have to watch him around sept/oct and once he starts digging into the flower beds it's time to go in.

tallus

OP: Why not try one of the pet shops ? they are very likely to have tortoises that have not been hibernated.

I don't keep them anymore myself but when I did, I didn't hibernate them the first year I had them as they were only hatchlings and I had a fear of hibernating due to lack of knowledge, but I should have, as one of them grew a bit too fast. After the first year I hibernated them every year, and I agree with Cookie Monster, there's no excuse not to hibernate, as it's part of the natural life cycle of the Tortoise. Of course, they should not be hibernated if they are not fully fit.
I did have help in hibernating mine from a friend who had hibernated a tortoise every year for many years which was a huge help, but it's not that hard after the first time, it's just hard to get ones head around the fact that an animal that needs so much sunlight and heat can go into a refrigerator for several months and come out alive!

tallus

Shanao wrote: »

Not necessarily, my tortoise is too young, and was too badly treated before i got her for me to put her through hibernation; she would most certainly die. I know a few other people who dont put their's into hibernation for the first two years either as it can kill them if they're not built up enough for it. There should be one or two around.

There's also a chance that if they aren't hibernated from their first year that they will grow too fast and develop a lumpy/distorted shell. I think it's referred to as pyramid growth.

lrushe

tallus wrote: »

There's also a chance that if they aren't hibernated from their first year that they will grow too fast and develop a lumpy/distorted shell. I think it's referred to as pyramid growth.

Pyramiding is caused by a combination of poor diet, lack of exercise and insufficent UVA & UVB light, it has nothing to do with hibernation.

tallus

lrushe wrote: »

Pyramiding is caused by a combination of poor diet, lack of exercise and insufficent UVA & UVB light, it has nothing to do with hibernation.

Tortoises that are not hibernated tend to pyramid. I know because it happened to one of mine, albeit nothing as bad as the tort in the picture I supplied.
Not hibernating means they eat when they should be hibernating and slowing down shell growth, and that does cause pyramiding.
For the record, mine were on the correct diet.

lrushe

tallus wrote: »

Tortoises that are not hibernated tend to pyramid. I know because it happened to one of mine, albeit nothing as bad as the tort in the picture I supplied.
Not hibernating means they eat when they should be hibernating and slowing down shell growth, and that does cause pyramiding.
For the record, mine were on the correct diet.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then and if you have any links to show that hibernating causes pyramiding I would love to read them. I've not hibernated my tortosie in 4 years, he is now 5 and has a perfect shell. I know people who rescue tortoises and never hibernate, all their tortoise have perfect shells.
Tortoise should be given food for 20 mins and then remove the food to avoid over eating and growing too fast, not hibernating should not alter this.
These are the known reasons for pyramiding:

• too much protein
• too little calcium
• too much phosphorous (a poor calcium :phosphorous ratio)
• not enough D3
• kidney and/or liver disease (which impair conversion of vitamin D to it's active from), small intestinal disease (disrupts absorption), and disease of the thyroid or parathyroid glands (produce hormones which affect calcium metabolism).

However there are some less obvious, though equally important factors involved

• lack of exercise
• hydration status
• grain based diets
• lack of fiber
• too much food
• being kept too cool

I have never seen hibernation or lack there of to be a factor in pyramiding.

Rancid

lrushe wrote: »

Yep I have a 5 year old Russian Tortoise, I have never hibernated him, nor do I intend on ever doing it, too dangerous in my opinion if you don't know what you are doing.

I think with any exotic species it is best to try to recreate its natural habitat and natural conditions so that its life is as near-normal as possible.
I don't think I'd find it too difficult to research the instructions on safe fridge hibernation and armed with the info, some temperature monitors and a decent little fridge, allow it to follow its natural instinct to hibernate for 13 or 14 weeks each year.

lrushe

Rancid wrote: »

I think with any exotic species it is best to try to recreate its natural habitat and natural conditions so that its life is as near-normal as possible.
I don't think I'd find it too difficult to research the instructions on safe fridge hibernation and armed with the info, some temperature monitors and a decent little fridge, allow it to follow its natural instinct to hibernate for 13 or 14 weeks each year.

In a tortoises natural habitat it is necessary to hibernate due to lack of food and the need to reserve energy, in capitivity with capitive bred animals there is no need to hibernate as they have access to food all year round. If you choose to hibernate that's it your call but imo it is not necessary and there is no evidence to prove it prolongs the lifespan of the tortoise.
Hibernation is very tricky to get right, you must firstly make sure your tortoise is in excellent health, not as easy as it sounds as tortoise don't show illness unless they are v.sick. You must make sure your tortoise has an empty stomach before it hibernates, stale food in its stomach for weeks on end can kill a hibernating tortoise. You must make sure your temps are spot on, too cold and the tortoise will freeze, too warm and you tortoises metobolism won't slow down enough and your tortoise will starve.
Like I said if you choose to hibernate your tort that's your call but there are to many variables for my liking when there are no proven benefits.

Rancid

lrushe wrote: »

In a tortoises natural habitat it is necessary to hibernate due to lack of food and the need to reserve energy, in capitivity with capitive bred animals there is no need to hibernate as they have access to food all year round. If you choose to hibernate that's it your call but imo it is not necessary and there is no evidence to prove it prolongs the lifespan of the tortoise.
Hibernation is very tricky to get right, you must firstly make sure your tortoise is in excellent health, not as easy as it sounds as tortoise don't show illness unless they are v.sick. You must make sure your tortoise has an empty stomach before it hibernates, stale food in its stomach for weeks on end can kill a hibernating tortoise. You must make sure your temps are spot on, too cold and the tortoise will freeze, too warm and you tortoises metobolism won't slow down enough and your tortoise will starve.
Like I said if you choose to hibernate your tort that's your call but there are to many variables for my liking when there are no proven benefits.

The benefit, as I see it, is that you allow the tortoise to follow its instincts and those instincts result in a natural slowing down and reduced appetite with the onset of winter, despite not reducing temps, food supply or lighting in the habitat.
I'm well aware of the fridge hibernation procedure and if anything it's more controllable and more easily monitored, imo, than other methods, so I would opt for it for the safety of the tortoise.

lrushe

Rancid wrote: »

a natural slowing down and reduced appetite with the onset of winter, despite not reducing temps, food supply or lighting in the habitat.

My guy doesn't stop eating or slow down in winter, he's as active as he is in summer. If I were to turn down his temps or reduce his lighting he might but otherwise it's business as usual.

Rancid

lrushe wrote: »

My guy doesn't stop eating or slow down in winter, he's as active as he is in summer. If I were to turn down his temps or reduce his lighting he might but otherwise it's business as usual.

Well, my 50+ lady is very much in tune with the seasons and slows down no matter what!

lrushe

Rancid wrote: »

Well, my 50+ lady is very much in tune with the seasons and slows down no matter what!

Different husbandary I guess.

tallus

lrushe wrote: »

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then and if you have any links to show that hibernating causes pyramiding I would love to read them. I've not hibernated my tortosie in 4 years, he is now 5 and has a perfect shell. I know people who rescue tortoises and never hibernate, all their tortoise have perfect shells.
Tortoise should be given food for 20 mins and then remove the food to avoid over eating and growing too fast, not hibernating should not alter this.
These are the known reasons for pyramiding:

• too much protein
• too little calcium
• too much phosphorous (a poor calcium :phosphorous ratio)
• not enough D3
• kidney and/or liver disease (which impair conversion of vitamin D to it's active from), small intestinal disease (disrupts absorption), and disease of the thyroid or parathyroid glands (produce hormones which affect calcium metabolism).

However there are some less obvious, though equally important factors involved

• lack of exercise
• hydration status
• grain based diets
• lack of fiber
• too much food
• being kept too cool

I have never seen hibernation or lack there of to be a factor in pyramiding.

First off, very good post lrushe.

I probably should have not used the word "pyramiding" in my post earlier as it's probably the wrong term for what I was describing.

What I was eluding to was the fact that not hibernating tortoises can cause shell growth on a captive Tortoise to be faster than it would be on a wild tortoise who hibernated, and that can cause malformation of the shell. In the case of the two torts I kept, I didn't hibernate them the first year I had them because I was scared it might harm them, and as a result, one of them did grow faster than he should have and his shell was slightly disfigured.
I had the correct lighting, tabletop, and diet present.

lrushe

tallus wrote: »

In the case of the two torts I kept, I didn't hibernate them the first year I had them because I was scared it might harm them, and as a result, one of them did grow faster than he should have and his shell was slightly disfigured.
I had the correct lighting, tabletop, and diet present.

You were absolutely right not to hibernate for the first year you had your torts, that would be the golden rule of thumb for anyone with a new tort, whatever about subsquent years, year one (that you own the tort, not its age) they should always be kept awake simply because you don't know first hand their health history and it's better to be safe than sorry.
The disfigurement of the shell you found, could it have been dry shell rot, this can cause disfigurement especially when starting to heal.
Sorry OP for totally derailing your post

lrushe

Just some pics of my tort


SP_A0152.jpg

SP_A0153.jpg

SP_A0155.jpg

SP_A0156.jpg

SP_A0154.jpg

tallus

lrushe wrote: »

The disfigurement of the shell you found, could it have been dry shell rot, this can cause disfigurement especially when starting to heal.
Sorry OP for totally derailing your post

It was rapid growth.

Photo of both torts after coming out of hibernation the second year I had them.



You can see the shell on the larger of the two is slightly "Bumpier" looking.
Both had the same diet and conditions, but he ate a lot more when I over wintered them.

lrushe

I'm not see a huge problem with the larger ones shell tbh, there is some new growth around the edges but that would be normal. They are young so their shell will change as they mature.
Do you know what sex they are? and what age they are?

tallus

They were about 3 months old when I bought them. They were around 2 when that photo was taken. The shell isn't as visible as it could be in that photo, but it was slightly overgrown, if you had seen them in the flesh you would have a better appreciation of where I am coming from.