Focus or Leon?

coolbeans

For the record I never said the TDI was a crap engine, it has some very strong features but I always found it frustrating drive when compared to more up to date competitors. The narrow power band being the main sticking point for me. You'd take off, think you're flying up to about 2250rpm, and then two thousand revs of flat powerlessness after you cross the power band. Frustrating.

coolbeans

son-of-plunder wrote: »

actually im not clueless, have seen this happen in a peugeot 407 during the summer. and there is an oil for the filter called eloys oil, its topped up from a tank behind the rear wheel in the 407, but a quick search online shows people have had serious problems with them, mainly cos of that filter.

It's not oil, it's an equivalent of AdBlue which helps when burning off the particulate and other nasties.

Divorce Referendum

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The design of the 1.9tdi is decades old. It's simply not at the races anymore on emmissions, or refinement. The narrow powerband issue is also well documented.

It's not my fault if you don't/can't notice any difference. Greater motoring authorities than us both have. Again all this is well documented.

Emmisions and refinement? So thats tax and noise i presume. Dpf on the common rail is a great answer to that isnt. A ball heartache to save 30-40 euro of tax a year. The narrow powerband you talk about exists on the focus as well. Its a diesel not a petrol its not my fault you are ignoring this. The emissions is the reason this engine is not being made anymore. And for a modern design the only real plus to the hdi/tdci engine is that it is quieter on startup. Hardly a huge technological advancement.

Divorce Referendum

coolbeans wrote: »

For the record I never said the TDI was a crap engine, it has some very strong features but I always found it frustrating drive when compared to more up to date competitors. The narrow power band being the main sticking point for me. You'd take off, think you're flying up to about 2250rpm, and then two thousand revs of flat powerlessness after you cross the power band. Frustrating.

I will admit that alot of the torque is in low revs in the tdi but I think you might be a bit over dramatic saying flat powerlessness.

Henry Ford III

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

Emmisions and refinement? So thats tax and noise i presume. Dpf on the common rail is a great answer to that isnt. A ball heartache to save 30-40 euro of tax a year. The narrow powerband you talk about exists on the focus as well. Its a diesel not a petrol its not my fault you are ignoring this. The emissions is the reason this engine is not being made anymore. And for a modern design the only real plus to the hdi/tdci engine is that it is quieter on startup. Hardly a huge technological advancement.

As I said earlier greater authorities than us.....

There's quite a bit more to emmissions than it's manifestation in road tax rates. The narrow powerband is a 1.9tdi specific issue. It just doesn't provide a lineal surge of torque - even by turbodiesel standards. It's well off the mark NVH wise, despite lots of noise insulation inside the cabin.

Little benefit in engaging further if you can't understand and/or appreciate the points made. As I said they've been covered many times elsewhere. VW however have, and that's why it's been discontinued.

coolbeans

Hey it's my opinion based on experience. I find the unit quite frustrating to drive when compared to other modern units. Lots of people are happy with the 1.9TDI but I wouldn't be as I think there are better units out there.

Divorce Referendum

Henry Ford III wrote: »

As I said earlier greater authorities than us.....

There's quite a bit more to emmissions than it's manifestation in road tax rates. The narrow powerband is a 1.9tdi specific issue. It just doesn't provide a lineal surge of torque - even by turbodiesel standards. It's well off the mark NVH wise, despite lots of noise insulation inside the cabin.

Little benefit in engaging further if you can't understand and/or appreciate the points made. As I said they've been covered many times elsewhere. VW however have, and that's why it's been discontinued.

Thats because the point you are making is matter of opinion. The real reason its being discontinued is because of the emissions. Guys like you will now say it was the powerband. Noise is all relative. Focus is quite noisey in the cabin but it isnt from the engine.

EPM

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

Thats because the point you are making is matter of opinion. The real reason its being discontinued is because of the emissions. Guys like you will now say it was the powerband. Noise is all relative. Focus is quite noisey in the cabin but it isnt from the engine.

In fairness people expect better and VW would have replaced it due to customer requirements anyway. The 2 litres were changed from PD to CR because of this too.

I also found it annoying to drive at times and your point about the focus with a narrow powerband is not exactly true. All diesels have a narrower powerband but the focus is pretty linear which makes it more tractable in the real world.

Divorce Referendum

EPM wrote: »

In fairness people expect better and VW would have replaced it due to customer requirements anyway. The 2 litres were changed from PD to CR because of this too.

I also found it annoying to drive at times and your point about the focus with a narrow powerband is not exactly true. All diesels have a narrower powerband but the focus is pretty linear which makes it more tractable in the real world.

Ya ok the powerband is a little different but as you said its going to be short in a turbo-diesel anyway. The focus definitely has a flatter torque curve than the tdi but its all down to driving style in each case to match each car. I just dont see a huge difference between the engines apart from the noise on start-up. The dpf is an annoying addition to cr diesels and I am not looking forward to mine going on the focus.

son-of-plunder

coolbeans wrote: »

It's not oil, it's an equivalent of AdBlue which helps when burning off the particulate and other nasties.

Apologies if i caused confusion but that was my understanding of what it was anyway. ive heard it called eloy oil or something like that hence why i said oil

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

EPM wrote: »

Had a 2006 Leon petrol for the last 3 and a half years. Get the stylance with the sport up pack. It rides harshly but the interior is nicer and it looks a lot better. Spec on the stylance has all you'd need. Good driving position and loads of space front and rear (more room in rear seats than the Octavia I have now).

But the 1.9 TDi is getting on a bit and the harsh ride will annoy over time. Doing a lot of mileage the Focus will be the more comfortable car, has better steering and less of a lip in the boot which can make heavy items a pain with the Leon.

What is your definition of a "harsh ride"? I went from a 97 micra to a 98 corsa to the 01 focus...

Won't be carting much around in the boot of either car so that's not going to be an issue Thanks for your opinion though.

Green Hornet wrote: »

Keep in mind that the Leon is really bad inside. Shockingly plastic and poorly designed. Not roomy either. Looks bigger than it is. Test drove one just after a Civic and it was way behind the Civic in all departments. I'd pick the Focus any time over the agricultural Leon.

An opinion which you are entitled to but conflicting to my own.

"Agricultural" leon? What do you mean by this?

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No, it's been completely replaced by a common rail design like the Peugeots.

Common rail design?

EPM wrote: »

The 1.9 is now defunct in the Leon. We were getting pre-facelifts most of last year but any orders now will be CR. I doubt there are many 1.9s if any unregistered here unless they've been sitting around a long time

What do you mean by defunct? Who do you refer to when you say "we were getting pre-factlifts most of last year", I take it you work in a garage?

Divorce Referendum wrote: »

No its more expensive.

It is but I think he means for what you get it's priced more appropiately.


Thanks all for your opinions

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

coolbeans wrote: »

Hey it's my opinion based on experience. I find the unit quite frustrating to drive when compared to other modern units. Lots of people are happy with the 1.9TDI but I wouldn't be as I think there are better units out there.

Can you list the better engines in the same class of car within the 12K budget I have?

I drove the 407 1.6Hdi in a 2007 model, it wasn't bad but i'm guessing the focus and leon will impress more.

EPM

Ryleigh Abundant Twilight wrote: »

What is your definition of a "harsh ride"? I went from a 97 micra to a 98 corsa to the 01 focus...

Won't be carting much around in the boot of either car so that's not going to be an issue Thanks for your opinion though.

I mean it will be very firm on any bumps. You will feel every little thing - quite bad really and possibly the worst ride quality I have ever come across. It's a lot better on 16 inch wheels.

Ryleigh Abundant Twilight wrote: »

do you mean by defunct? Who do you refer to when you say "we were getting pre-factlifts most of last year", I take it you work in a garage?

No I dont. The facelift Leon came out in 2009 in the UK but only mid-late 2010 here as they were clearing stock. The 1.9 tdi is no longer available, although it can be found in some facelift cars.

Is the car you're looking at an import? There was a load of high ish mileage ones floating around a dealer chain a year or so ago and I went to look at a few for a friend and they were not in good nick. I'd avoid them like the plague. Every one had a problem of some shape or form.

coolbeans

Ryleigh Abundant Twilight wrote: »

Can you list the better engines in the same class of car within the 12K budget I have?

I drove the 407 1.6Hdi in a 2007 model, it wasn't bad but i'm guessing the focus and leon will impress more.

Hmmm...now you've got me. I never said the Seat was a bad car but I do think it's a bit of a fatty looks wise and as you know I don't like the engine. It reminds me of a wannabe Alfa which it kind of is. I'd consider the Focus as previously mentioned and maybe a Mazda 3. Nice motor with the same engine as the Ford. I remember being very impressed by the 3 when I drove it although that was admittedly a few years ago now. I like Citroen C4s too but I'll probably be flamed out of here for admitting that. :P
Anyway, whatever the feck you do don't get an Octavia!

Green Hornet

Ryleigh Abundant Twilight wrote: »

"Agricultural" leon? What do you mean by this?

Well I drive an Accord diesel so I guess it probably is unfair to compare the 2. I just found it unrefined. Gearbox clunky, noisy, rattly cabin and generally reminded me of diesel's from the 90's.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

EPM wrote: »

I mean it will be very firm on any bumps. You will feel every little thing - quite bad really and possibly the worst ride quality I have ever come across. It's a lot better on 16 inch wheels.

No I dont. The facelift Leon came out in 2009 in the UK but only mid-late 2010 here as they were clearing stock. The 1.9 tdi is no longer available, although it can be found in some facelift cars.

Is the car you're looking at an import? There was a load of high ish mileage ones floating around a dealer chain a year or so ago and I went to look at a few for a friend and they were not in good nick. I'd avoid them like the plague. Every one had a problem of some shape or form.

The TDi's I am looking at have below 60K miles on them. ranging from 10K miles (3K miles a year is very very low) to 80K but not looking at anything over the 60K range. This might change though.

coolbeans wrote: »

Hmmm...now you've got me. I never said the Seat was a bad car but I do think it's a bit of a fatty looks wise and as you know I don't like the engine. It reminds me of a wannabe Alfa which it kind of is. I'd consider the Focus as previously mentioned and maybe a Mazda 3. Nice motor with the same engine as the Ford. I remember being very impressed by the 3 when I drove it although that was admittedly a few years ago now. I like Citroen C4s too but I'll probably be flamed out of here for admitting that. :P
Anyway, whatever the feck you do don't get an Octavia!

Haha, reason I ask is because I am open to suggestions. I have taken a look at other cars like the Kia Ceed and Carolla, but I may have overlooked some in that class and price range. C4's, or any french car for that matter, are not very appealing to me. Each to their own

Green Hornet wrote: »

Well I drive an Accord diesel so I guess it probably is unfair to compare the 2. I just found it unrefined. Gearbox clunky, noisy, rattly cabin and generally reminded me of diesel's from the 90's.

Now if I could afford it, i'd love to get the accord... Very nice car indeed.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

I had short listed a 3 cars, went to test drive them today but 2 were sold during the week, another sold before I got there :P

I went to the Seat main dealer and inquired about the 2008 1.9 TDi. Only had a 2010 in stock. I took a 1.6 TDCi 2011 Seat Leon Reference SE for a test drive.

I'm seriously thinking of going for a new model, as I can avail of the 2.5K scrapage deal.

Any suggestions on this?

I will also be taking a look at the Kia Pro-Ceed 1.5 CRDi (I take it it's a similar engine? Not 100% though)

Ceed seems to have some more extras but I am just not very confident in Kia itself, mainly due to a testdrive about 5 years ago. Are they a good car? Would anyone recommend them?

Thanks again for your opinions.

sean1141

a mate of mine worked in a local kia dealer. he said they had very few cars come back for anything other than normal service. i like the kia ceed sport (not sure if thats even a model) but its the sporty hatchback version.. dont they now come with 7 year warranty??

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

sean1141 wrote: »

a mate of mine worked in a local kia dealer. he said they had very few cars come back for anything other than normal service. i like the kia ceed sport (not sure if thats even a model) but its the sporty hatchback version.. dont they now come with 7 year warranty??

I thought they always came with a 7 year warranty?

bazz26

The 7 year warranty started with the Ceed back in 2007, it then moved to other models in the range. Just read the terms and conditions of the warranty, it includes that the car must be serviced by a Kia main dealer for the duration of the 7 years. Still a good warranty though.

1.6 diesel in the Seat is a Volkswagen/Audi engine, 1.6 diesel in the Ceed is a Kia/Hyundai engine, neither have anything in common. Ceed is the 5 door hatchback, Ceed SW is the estate and ProCeed is the 3 door hatchback type coupe.

Hyundai i30 is pretty much the same car as the Ceed and arguably better looking, shorter 5 year warranty though but still longer than the one on the Leon. Leon must be due a change soon too as it has been around since the end of 2005.

Daymo007

Check out
www.carmagazine.co.uk

gazmc18

1st Post woo hoo

Here is my 2 cents. Focus will be a more sellable car in a few years time if you want to trade up(not saying the Leon wont be though).

Iam not trying to promote or anything but If your looking at scrappage you will pick up a new focus 109bhp for 18K.

Leon i think is a better looking car but the interior is awful imo

Daymo007

I think the interior in the Leon is quite nice, it's definitely much nicer than the Focus but that would be me being biased!! What's the general opinion on the new Ibiza?? I'm thinking in trading my 2008 Leon for a new Ibiza