''Leader's'' Debate - TV3 - 8.00PM

pjmn

Would describe myself as apolitical...

If one had landed from Mars and wasn't aware of what has gone on here in recent years, I think one could conclude that MM comes across as clearer re the way forward...

However given that I don't come from Mars and do know what went on - I'm becoming more convinced that the correct solution is a minority Fine Gael government supported by MM's Fianna Fail.

pjmn

hotmail.com

the untitled user wrote: »

Very very disappointing. It's all just pointless emotive statements and sweeping generalisations.

What else did you expect? Both leaders presumably only agreed to the debate if VB wasn't allowed to get involved.

CoalBucket

If I hear Martin refer to Twenty sixteen as Two Sixteen again i'll go crazy !!!!!!!!

telekon

The man who established the HSE believes "in a strong health system"...

Deepwell

Vinnie is letting MM away with murder - he is was overrruning his response time. Vinnie is obviously a closet FF supporter.

bernardo mac

Martin is trying to justify FF actions having allowed a catastrophic crisis to develop.In time, it will be revealed how many FF fingers were dipped into forbidden pies.Many of the dipping knaves have fled,very well fed. But FF is finished and legal public fingering of the pseudo patriots will come in a new regime

RubyRoss

deelite wrote: »

Matches his eyes

Cat like and creepy, no?

Handsome Bob

Deepwell wrote: »

Vinnie is letting MM away with murder - he is was overrruning his response time. Vinnie is obviously a closet FF supporter.

In fairness he has given Gilmore leg room as well, such as when Vinnie announced the ad break but allowed Gilmore to get his spiel in.

kev9100

I'm sorry Martin has been crap. He knows he won't get near government so its easy for him. Gilmore and the Labour actually have to live in the real world. I think Gilmore's winning.

LuckyGent88

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Lets build more schools with more teachers and add to our Public sector bill? Ugh.

so you fancy keeping kids in cold wet prefabs? By building new schools to replace old and too small ones will get the construction sector going again & this does not mean we need more teachers.

Balmed Out

Cant see how anyone thinks kenny coming out well from this, Gilmore seems vague on a lot but ill still come out tonight with more respect for him then kenny for having the balls to put himself out there. Always voted fg but the guys a joke

Sir Oxman

wyndhurst wrote: »

FFS...all their policies are the same, they are all handcuffed by the bailout terms....all we have left is to have a leader that at least can communicate and not look like a complete TURKEY (aka Gilmore & Inda)

If you can point out that all their policies are the same, go ahead and point them out.

hotmail.com

Deepwell wrote: »

Vinnie is letting MM away with murder - he is was overrruning his response time. Vinnie is obviously a closet FF supporter.

Go back and look at the programme again and you'll see what you're saying is complete rubbish.

Gilmore hasn't mastered the art of condensing his policies into a one minute speech.

Mr.Micro

Does Martin actually have a policy on anything.....other than I dont agree with FG and Labour.

CoalBucket

Martin just said it's interesting that Labour and FG are proposing to implement a health plan that cannot be implemented in the lifetime of the government.

The Four Year Budgetry Plan Anybody !!!!!!!!!!!!!

runman

the untitled user wrote: »

Very very disappointing. It's all just pointless emotive statements and sweeping generalisations.

of course it is...ur average voter isnt able for the details...theyd be bored stiff, so they get the generalisations etc...
if you were trying to win an election youd be doing the same...some laugh in fairness:D

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

sollar

ebbsy wrote: »

Kenny the real winner here. Let the two boys achieve nowt.

No i don't think so.

We know these guys are going to be nervous at the debate but at least they showed up and took the pressure. Kenny is hiding up in leitrim.

wyndhurst

Deepwell wrote: »

Vinnie is letting MM away with murder - he is was overrruning his response time. Vinnie is obviously a closet FF supporter.

You abviously know nothing about VB - there is nothing he could be further from than a FF supporter.
He is actually probably overcompensating trying to seem balanced.

On a side note - he is looking particulary orange tonight.

yoshytoshy

Poor Gilmore looks guilty as hell.

Drumpot

bernardo mac wrote: »

Martin is trying to justify FF actions having allowed a catastrophic crisis to develop.In time, it will be revealed how many FF fingers were dipped into forbidden pies.Many of the dipping knaves have fled,very well fed. But FF is finished and legal public fingering of the pseudo patriots will come in a new regime

Listen . . FF will not be our next government so dont worry about what Martin is saying to "cover up" the mistakes of the past.

Be more concerned with the economically illiterate Gilmore who could potentially do serious damage going forward.

People need to stop worrying about FF (as they are gone) and start worring about the obvious lack of quality in the alternative.

Gilemore has been lucky that people have been so angry with FF up until now, nobody really listened to what he was saying. If nothing else this debate is finally allowing people to see how hollow his policies are!

BlaasForRafa

murpho999 wrote: »

Sorry but different format.

In US they stand behind podiums and then answer direct question put to them by host. There doesn't be a whole lot of interaction with each other.

In this they are debating against each other......would be strange to look away from your opponent and at camera.

I wouldn't call this a debate since half the time they're shouting over each other. IMO neither man is coming off particularly well, theres a lot of petty sniping and Gilmore is letting Martin get away with accusations like Gilmore would have accepted the guarantee when he has multiple times said he wouldn't.

Martins party helped ruin the country and Gilmore should be reading him out of it like Pat Rabbitte did to Pat Carey a few months ago.

Also VB is an awful moderator, he's got no control at all.

yosemite_sam

I would not vote for either of them or the wimp who hid

Duckworth_Luas

pjmn wrote: »

I'm becoming more convinced that the correct solution is a minority Fine Gael government supported by MM's Fianna Fail.

pjmn

That would be the final nail in their coffin. FF propping up a FG government would cause even their most hardcore supporters to just walk away.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Flimbos

Martin: "Eamon, talk about the future"..

Let's not dwell on the past now Michéal :rolleyes:

Sulmac

Micheál Martin is hardly an authority on health.

CoalBucket

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Poor Gilmore looks guilty as hell.

The guilt rests on the otherside of the table

runman

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Does Martin actually have a policy on anything.....other than I dont agree with FG and Labour.

discredit them all = last man standing and no policy required

ascanbe

Deepwell wrote: »

Vinnie is letting MM away with murder - he is was overrruning his response time. Vinnie is obviously a closet FF supporter.

Agreed. I think this has become clear over the last while. VB is nothing more than the establishment's 'pet' socialist. He spends half his programme time banging on about social equity but when it comes down to it, it's clear that he doesn't actually believe in the premise it would be based on.

Kasabian

Martin is a failure, a big part of a failure of a Government that has destroyed Ireland. Let's not forget this.
"We have turned a corner" will echo in the history of this contry.

Eamonn is not coming across as a competent option as a leader.

As for Enda, how can anyone send this man to EU and IMF, he is even afraid of Vincent ffs.

Party Politics is going to destroy this country.

Any chance of getting Gerry and Ian to comedown and sort this place out.

ascanbe

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Does Martin actually have a policy on anything.....other than I dont agree with FG and Labour.

His policy for this debate is to lie at a furious rate.

Inquitus

ebbsy wrote: »

Kenny the real winner here. Let the two boys achieve nowt.

By ducking the debate and all the shocking PR he got from that, he is the biggest loser tonight.

killy09

MM: i abolished the heath boards. bull. He amagamated the the healthboards and called it the hse and then put a new management layer on top

Tarobot

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Exactly, it was the layer of management that refused to go after the health boards were abolished.

HSE is not perfect by a long stretch but in international analyses, our health system has improved its rankings dramatically since health boards abolished.

Deepwell

Come on Eamon, take the high moral ground - promise not to take the bonus and pension and ask MM to forgo his - its the least he can do for his role in this mess....

Leslie91

Flimbos wrote: »

Martin: "Eamon, talk about the future"..

Let's not dwell on the past now Michéal :rolleyes:

Summed him up for me. The last 13 years never happened. MM is a wanker.

Mr.Micro

Martin slouching in his chair does not give a good impression.

SeaFields

My internet feed just dropped. Cant watch any more of it. Have to say in my opinion MM comes across much better than EG so far who looks stumped at times and goes back to old rhetoric. Fine Gael surely the only ones who'll benefit from tonight.

ascanbe

Tarobot wrote: »

Exactly, it was the layer of management that refused to go after the health boards were abolished.

HSE is not perfect by a long stretch but in international analyses, our health system has improved its rankings dramatically since health boards abolished.

And the govt. who implemented it had no say in this? Was it completely impotent?

Drumpot

Deepwell wrote: »

Come on Eamon, take the high moral ground - promise not to take the bonus and pension and ask MM to forgo his - its the least he can do for his role in this mess....

I find it odd that in the debate about political reform the word "accountability" never comes up . .

Sir Oxman

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I wouldn't call this a debate since half the time they're shouting over each other. IMO neither man is coming off particularly well, theres a lot of petty sniping and Gilmore is letting Martin get away with accusations like Gilmore would have accepted the guarantee when he has multiple times said he wouldn't.

Martins party helped ruin the country and Gilmore should be reading him out of it like Pat Rabbitte did to Pat Carey a few months ago.

Also VB is an awful moderator, he's got no control at all.

I agree with this - Gilmore is missing the chance to explain/counteract Martin when VB hands over to him, he appears to go off at a tangent.

Has Martin explained anything about his partys policies?
This appears to be the FF leader crossexamining the Labour leader!
Which is bizarre - i'd prefer just VB doing each one on his own.

martin46585

If all that mm says is true, and something to be proud of, can someone shed some light as to how the country is in such a mess, especially on employment health, and the debt of course,

Flimbos

Here we go...

Denerick

Gilmore has been rather poor tonight, truth be told. The Gilmore Gale is deflating every day. Kenny is only strengthened by his abstinence.

telekon

Subtle dig Vinnie!

pjmn

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

That would be the final nail in their coffin. FF propping up a FG government would cause even their most hardcore supporters to just walk away.

Respect your opinion, and you may well be proved correct...

My logic for making the statement as follows - a) I think their (FG & FF) policies are most closely aligned of all the parties and b) assuming (big assumption I know) that the economy does turn for the better over the life of the next administration then FF will want in some way to be associated with same, and supporting a minority government may be the way to go...

As you say, their die-hards wouldn't like it, but I do think that's where MM sees himself taking FF (but I'll admit, what do I know.....)

pjmn

Kasabian

FF really believe that we haven't noticed what has happened in the last 14 years.

fifth

This should be interesting now! Will Gilmore capitalise?

hotmail.com

MM trips up on handshake.