How much are we losing to SHELL?

whoopdedoo

Padraig Mor wrote: »

You haven't really though, have you?

mgmt wrote: »

He read the synopsis on Indymedia. LOL

people like you really piss me off lads but as in my last reply yer welcome to the state yer obviously so happy slaving away in while those at the top give away all the national reserves for brown envelopes!!

and ye think I'm the idiot!!

zig

whoopdedoo wrote: »

I have no figures myself either but I have read the deal they were handed and it stinks!! we've been paying for the mapping of our coast line for years and are actually still mapping at our own cost now on behalf of shell!!

supposedly we couldn't have drilled the oil ourselves but I remember reading somewhere about 3-4 years ago that some Irish company were away training some country in oil drilling! I searched for a link to the report but cant find it!

we just have to take back the profits from the oil for the love of god!!!

Have you a link to the deal? Genuine question, not a snide remark. I do agree with you there, anyone that shows a bit of passion sort of gets laughed at around here. If people think you are wrong they should argue objectively. Its like when people are trying to organise protests or any form of revolt on this site it just becomes a joke by most posters.

whoopdedoo

zig wrote: »

Have you a link to the deal? Genuine question, not a snide remark. I do agree with you there, anyone that shows a bit of passion sort of gets laughed at around here. If people think you are wrong they should argue objectively. Its like when people are trying to organise protests or any form of revolt on this site it just becomes a joke by most posters.

I do not and to find a link online has defeated me! I remember it was a minister outlining the deal but can't remember who, they outlined a little detail on how we've been mapping the Irish coast for years and continue to do so today. they outlined the tax system in place with shell able to write off all it's expenses against tax for a few years before we start to see a few quid coming our way (he actually stood up for shell saying they deserved it after coming here and investing millions to extract the oil in the first place. then he explained how good the Irish government had acted when it had agreed a deal with shell that Ireland could guarantee a certain percentage of supply for our people and that we'd gladly pay going market rates for the pleasure too. he seen absolutely wrong with the deal and actually seemed pleased with it!

I did not read it on indymedia or shelltosea sites and even if I did some people are too quick to rubbish people standing up for what's right from thenice comfy computer chair while others are suffering to try hold up the whole process and show us all what's really going on with OUR FCUKING NATURAL RESOURCES!!

I'm wasting no more of my time on people in this country, I'm emigrating soon and good riddance to this sham democracy and all the ignorant assholes in it!!

listermint

whoopdedoo wrote: »

I do not and to find a link online has defeated me! I remember it was a minister outlining the deal but can't remember who, they outlined a little detail on how we've been mapping the Irish coast for years and continue to do so today. they outlined the tax system in place with shell able to write off all it's expenses against tax for a few years before we start to see a few quid coming our way (he actually stood up for shell saying they deserved it after coming here and investing millions to extract the oil in the first place. then he explained how good the Irish government had acted when it had agreed a deal with shell that Ireland could guarantee a certain percentage of supply for our people and that we'd gladly pay going market rates for the pleasure too. he seen absolutely wrong with the deal and actually seemed pleased with it!

I did not read it on indymedia or shelltosea sites and even if I did some people are too quick to rubbish people standing up for what's right from thenice comfy computer chair while others are suffering to try hold up the whole process and show us all what's really going on with OUR FCUKING NATURAL RESOURCES!!

I'm wasting no more of my time on people in this country, I'm emigrating soon and good riddance to this sham democracy and all the ignorant assholes in it!!

Im interested as to what fabulous glorious green green paradise you are going to?

whoopdedoo

listermint wrote: »

Im interested as to what fabulous glorious green green paradise you are going to?

not that it's any of your business but to put it mildly if I was stuck I would be happier volunteering for the rest of my life in an aids infested African village than be here trying to get through to anyone on the Isle, most friends included!

there's something seriously wrong with the irish psyche IMO!!

don't worry about me listermint, I know where i'm going and what I'm doing, it's the one thing keeping me going right now! I can't wait to see Ireland disappear in my rear view mirror as I roll onto the ferry and never look back

listermint

whoopdedoo wrote: »

not that it's any of your business but to put it mildly if I was stuck I would be happier volunteering for the rest of my life in an aids infested African village than be here trying to get through to anyone on the Isle, most friends included!

there's something seriously wrong with the irish psyche IMO!!

It isnt any of my business, but you seem to have this rose tinted view that the rest of the world is sooo much better. Greed is a human infliction buddy, no matter where you go you will find something to give out about or something that really displeases you.

Why dont you go out an help homeless people here or recovering long term illness patients and do something rather than ranting on the internet.

Everyone always thinks its always nicer over the fence. The fact is its not. I know!

whoopdedoo

listermint wrote: »

It isnt any of my business, but you seem to have this rose tinted view that the rest of the world is sooo much better. Greed is a human infliction buddy, no matter where you go you will find something to give out about or something that really displeases you.

Why dont you go out an help homeless people here or recovering long term illness patients and do something rather than ranting on the internet.

Everyone always thinks its always nicer over the fence. The fact is its not. I know!

thanks for the fatherly advice but I won't be changing my plans

Pete_Cavan

whoopdedoo wrote: »

I do not and to find a link online has defeated me! I remember it was a minister outlining the deal but can't remember who, they outlined a little detail on how we've been mapping the Irish coast for years and continue to do so today. they outlined the tax system in place with shell able to write off all it's expenses against tax for a few years before we start to see a few quid coming our way (he actually stood up for shell saying they deserved it after coming here and investing millions to extract the oil in the first place. then he explained how good the Irish government had acted when it had agreed a deal with shell that Ireland could guarantee a certain percentage of supply for our people and that we'd gladly pay going market rates for the pleasure too. he seen absolutely wrong with the deal and actually seemed pleased with it!

For all those people who think we are giving away our trillions of euros worth of natural resources, can you please explain why practically no oil or gas industry are here taking advantage of these despite the fact that everything has been done to incentivise it?

We are mapping the coast line, charge a tiny percentage of tax when compared to other countries and are even offering to write off the companies expenses. All these private companies are getting a great deal here yet are not operating here. We have no industry to speak of and produce nothing.

This thread and all others like it should be moved to Conspiracy Theories because our natural resources are as real as the Lough Ness monster.

whoopdedoo

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

For all those people who think we are giving away our trillions of euros worth of natural resources, can you please explain why practically no oil or gas industry are here taking advantage of these despite the fact that everything has been done to incentivise it?

We are mapping the coast line, charge a tiny percentage of tax when compared to other countries and are even offering to write off the companies expenses. All these private companies are getting a great deal here yet are not operating here. We have no industry to speak of and produce nothing.

This thread and all others like it should be moved to Conspiracy Theories because our natural resources are as real as the Lough Ness monster.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056135364

listermint

whoopdedoo wrote: »

thanks for the fatherly advice but I won't be changing my plans

I never asked you to. But please dont use the this forum as a platform for your own personal travel plans. Your pushing your own issues down other posters throats and it appears that of your friends.

Enjoy your cosy , crime free, un corrupted, warm, love in paradise.

All though i suspect your going to Oz.


Adios

whatstherush

whoopdedoo wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056135364

Pete asked a very simple question that the thread you linked to doesn't answer. I'll try so. If we're giving the stuff away how come no one is taking it

whoopdedoo

listermint wrote: »

I never asked you to. But please dont use the this forum as a platform for your own personal travel plans. Your pushing your own issues down other posters throats and it appears that of your friends.

Enjoy your cosy , crime free, un corrupted, warm, love in paradise.

All though i suspect your going to Oz.


Adios

your wrong about Oz but then ya could only have pulled that out of your arse!

why would I go down there with all the Gaa jersey wearing worst of the Irish?!?

I'm actually heading for eastern Europe and then onto Vietnam direction in a couple of years.

whoopdedoo

whatstherush wrote: »

Pete asked a very simple question that the thread you linked to doesn't answer. I'll try so. If we're giving the stuff away how come no one is taking it

time will tell I suppose

listermint

whoopdedoo wrote: »

your wrong about Oz but then ya could only have pulled that out of your arse!

why would I go down there with all the Gaa jersey wearing worst of the Irish?!?

I'm actually heading for eastern Europe and then onto Vietnam direction in a couple of years.

Well then as stated, Enjoy your trip. But stop spouting venom, you'll keep your friends that way. They might actually like it here even if it doesnt suit you. Shock Horror.

interrailing was fun, but it can be dodgy out there be safe. Vietnam is fairly well beaten path at this point you'll enjoy that one.

Gyalist

whatstherush wrote: »

Pete asked a very simple question that the thread you linked to doesn't answer. I'll try so. If we're giving the stuff away how come no one is taking it

Are you saying that Shell is exploring out of the goodness of their heart?

Padraig Mor

whoopdedoo wrote: »

I remember it was a minister outlining the deal but can't remember who, they outlined ....... they outlined ...... then he explained.....

So first you READ the deal document, but then it turns out you actually heard someone talking about it, not read it yourself?

I did not read it on indymedia or shelltosea sites and even if I did.......

LOL! :rolleyes:

whoopdedoo wrote: »

and ye think I'm the idiot!!

Yes, yes we do.

whatstherush

Gyalist wrote: »

Are you saying that Shell is exploring out of the goodness of their heart?

Nope, Shell are developing a well that has about 9bn in Gas reserves. There are claims made constantly that we are\have gave away Hundreds of billions of worth of oil and gas reserves. So in that context, why hasn't anyone else brought their free oil and gas ashore?

Padraig Mor

whatstherush wrote: »

Nope, Shell are developing a well that has about 9bn in Gas reserves. There are claims made constantly that we are\have gave away Hundreds of billions of worth of oil and gas reserves. So in that context, why hasn't anyone else brought their free oil and gas ashore?

It's a conspiracy dammit!

Aidan1

Shell are developing a well that has about 9bn in Gas reserves

Nope. At today's prices, exchange rates, and assuming full recoverability (which never happens), it works out at just over €6.4bn.

Overheal

Aidan1 wrote: »

Nope. At today's prices, exchange rates, and assuming full recoverability (which never happens), it works out at just over €6.4bn.

Oh. Only €6,400,000,000... that makes it alright.

RGDATA!

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Given that we would never have been able to extract the gas ourselves then the answer obviously is that we're not losing anything.

Your quick write-off of the issue can only be correct if:
a) Shell wouldn't have bothered exploring/extracting if we tried to negotiate as little as one % higher than the current deal
b) There were no other examples of nations who similarly lack the resources to extract themselves, who negotiated more favourable deals than us.

Drumpot

Had this discussion with an FF friend . .

The process of giving the contract to Shell has created employment. However, I dont believe it wasnt a reason to redeem some sort of royalties from any potential discovery.

Given the ridiculous deal we got from the EU, is anybody really surprised that this government prob couldnt negotiate a better deal for Ireland.

What I would be interested in , is if they do find something, can we then tax them in some way (theres always a way).

Overheal

It may have resulted in some jobs but its doubtful that it would be comparable to the number of jobs which would have been created from the additional revenue earned in a better negotiation.

whoopdedoo

listermint wrote: »

Well then as stated, Enjoy your trip. But stop spouting venom, you'll keep your friends that way. They might actually like it here even if it doesnt suit you. Shock Horror.

interrailing was fun, but it can be dodgy out there be safe. Vietnam is fairly well beaten path at this point you'll enjoy that one.

wrong again, gone past the typical interrailing age demographic, more of a career move than a holiday but nice try anyway!

as regards my attitude well I've gone passed the point of needing friends so bad that I have to drop my beliefs so as to keep people around me who see the world out of their arses!

whoopdedoo

Padraig Mor wrote: »

So first you READ the deal document, but then it turns out you actually heard someone talking about it, not read it yourself?


LOL! :rolleyes:


Yes, yes we do.

yes I did read it, you're trying to tell me I didn't read it?

you can stay laughing mate, I'll be having the last laugh at the end of the day

you thick

Padraig Mor

whoopdedoo wrote: »

yes I did read it, you're trying to tell me I didn't read it?

Yes - I don't believe you read it and you've pretty much admitted this yourself.

you can stay laughing mate, I'll be having the last laugh at the end of the day

Doubtful.

you thick

Thank you! I could report your post, but you and your S2S ilk aren't worth it TBH......

LostinBlanch

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Yes, yes we do.

Who is this "we" you refer to?

Do you speak for everybody on the web/boards/Ireland?

just curious like

LostinBlanch

Overheal wrote: »

It may have resulted in some jobs but its doubtful that it would be comparable to the number of jobs which would have been created from the additional revenue earned in a better negotiation.

Agreed, my concern about the whole thing was that Ray Burke who was the relevant minister at the time sent his whole negotiating team out of the room while he dealt with Shell. *Lataer he was convicted of corruption IIRC on a different matter mind, but did a leopard ever change it's spots?

A few years later Bertie sweetened the deal even more giving more tax rebates to Shell when he was minister for the environment. People will notice that this was more or less around the time he was going cap in hand to Paddy the plasterer in Manchester or winning unnamed amounts on unnamed horses instead of looking for "digouts" because he needed to pay for his divorce :rolleyes:

BTW Shell were even agitating to try and land the gas in Scotland. Look it up.

One question for all the apologists on here. Please tell me why Norway is a partner in the Corrib gas field and stands to make profit while Ireland doesn't? How right is that?

tails_naf

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

How much are we losing to Shell by charging them low taxes? About as much as we are losing to Microsoft by charing them 12.5%.

I'm sure if we raise taxes both companies will stay here because they love us so much.

Microsoft are somewhat mobile. They could work from anywhere in the world.
Shell (or someone else) have to be here to pump the oil here. They would stay as long as there is a profit.

Also, saying Ireland could never pump the oil themselves is crazy*. Loads of countries control the oil that they produce - venezuela, saudi arabia, kuait, iraq, norway. And in many cases it's all they have, and they are still rich. So to think that we could not tax it at 50% and still get interested parties is crazy. And even if we left it for 10 years, believe me, it would just sit there getting more valuable by the day, and getting more and more attractive no matter the % charged by the state.

It IS a national resource, and should be treated as one.

*I don't mean they setup an oil company, but they could be more in control and open the field to offers/bidding/ and ask for a percentage of everything extracted.

Birdnuts

whatstherush wrote: »

Nope, Shell are developing a well that has about 9bn in Gas reserves. There are claims made constantly that we are\have gave away Hundreds of billions of worth of oil and gas reserves. So in that context, why hasn't anyone else brought their free oil and gas ashore?

According to documents recently released by Wikileaks, Shell themselves reckon there is at least 15 Corrib gas fields out there off the West coast. Hence the option they took out on more state land in North Mayo to potentially expand the refinery at Bellanaboy(we still don't know what if anything they paid for the Coillte land they built the refinery on as both the state and SHELL refuse to discuss yet another aspect of their grubby little deal)