Rangers players in Dublin

Joyce Country

Eirebear wrote: »

Or maybe he got a call up for his country and actually wanted to play for them?

Just a thought like.

maybes. but most, if not all, nationalists in the north support the republic growing up. to quote marc wilson, born in antrim, who got his first cap last night - "I think everybody has their own personal reasons for wanting to play for the Republic or the North. I grew up supporting the Republic so it was a comfortable decision for me."

I've yet to meet a nationalist born in the north who supports the NI International team. I've met quite a few through college, friends etc. and they all support the republic. I'm sure if they were good enough to play for the north but no the republic they'd line out for them to further their careers though - only makes sense. Maybe some day I will a nationalist 6 county fan

CiaranC

Joyce Country wrote: »

I respect the right of the descendants of polish emigrants to ireland to maintain their language, culture and heritage and pass it down to their kids. scottish society seems unable to accept the right of irish people to do similar.

Unlike Ireland, Scotland has invested in the apparatus to produce footballers. The Scottish pay good money and invest a huge amount of effort to bring these players through schoolboy, academy and domestic club level to the point of being full internationals.

This simply could not happen with a Polish kid here due to the lack of interest in our football infrastructure, so there is no comparison.

OhNoYouDidn't

Eirebear wrote: »

So, a player grows in Scotland, is educated in Scotland, trained in Scotland, makes his career in Scotland, his money in Scotland, his fans in Scotland, his life in Scotland.
Yet Scottish fans arent allowed to be a little pissed off when he turn around and says, oh by the way i'm Irish?

No, not really.

For two reasons. One. At no point in their childhood did they indicate that they were Scottish, both the players in question played underage for Ireland. They were never going to play for Scotland.

Two. Scotch football fans seem to have missed giving McLean and other Scots who declared for the North the same level of abuse. In fact, he got none. Funny that....

OhNoYouDidn't

CiaranC wrote: »

Unlike Ireland, Scotland has invested in the apparatus to produce footballers. The Scottish pay good money and invest a huge amount of effort to bring these players through schoolboy, academy and domestic club level to the point of being full internationals.

This simply could not happen with a Polish kid here due to the lack of interest in our football infrastructure, so there is no comparison.

Rubbish.

We are producing FAR more and better talent in the LoI than the SPL.

Rovers produced a Nigerian U21 internatinal ffs, it has happened.

premierstone

CiaranC wrote: »

Let me rephrase, its plain to see who are the LOI fans on this forum. Posting on LOI threads being an obvious pointer.

Do they still exist, thought they would have gone into administration or something by now

Seriously though, as I have have already stated I am a lifelong Celtic fan and make no apologies for same, but I have actually attended more LOI games than SPL games - I lived in Dublin for 6 years and in Galway for 3 - but my home is in North Tipp, so should I just pick a random LOI team and support them and if so how is that any better than me supporting Celtic??

I am not having a go at you personally CiaranC because I dont know you personally but you have got to admit that the vast majority of LOI fans have a serious chip on their shoulder when it comes to Celtic and EPL fans in this country and alot of them spend more time actually bit*hing about same rather than supporting and developing their own league.

KeithAFC

Eirebear wrote: »

Wow.

So, a player grows in Scotland, is educated in Scotland, trained in Scotland, makes his career in Scotland, his money in Scotland, his fans in Scotland, his life in Scotland.
Yet Scottish fans arent allowed to be a little pissed off when he turn around and says, oh by the way i'm Irish?

I have no real issue with either player declaring for Ireland in all honesty, because i dont really give a toss about international football when it comes down to it, but i am sick to the back teeth of the victim complex that kicks up every time something something related to Ireland is criticised.

People can come on here and make huge generalisations about supporters of Scottish teams, and Scottish society in general yet when you try to argue that these generalisations are not exactly the whole story your are shot down with accusations of not being in touch with football culture, or even that ultimate of debating tools "my hole".

Seriously, its absolutely crazy the way some of you go on.

A thread is started on an internet forum regarding Irish fans booing Rangers players when playing for their country. Instead of discussing the rights and wrongs (if there really are any) of this situation, it quickly descends into a bitchfest regarding how they done so much bad stuff to us, wah wah ****ing wah.
Its like listening to a couple of schoolkids shouting "he started it", it really is.

For the record, i couldnt give a toss if the Rangers players are booed against the Republic - fans arent supposed to make stadia welcoming for the opposition and will use whatever means possible.
However if it happens in the game with N.I, - its just going to make people look bitter, and a little bit silly.

It will happen. Some people just can't seem to accept that Northern Ireland is a different country. Watch out for the Ulster banners tonight.

Coillte_Bhoy

CiaranC wrote: »

Let me spell it out for you. SPL fans sing songs about you wanting you dead. This doesnt put you off the SPL.

I despise the SPL and the Scottish football establishment but unfortunately it happens to be where Celtic are stuck for the present.

CiaranC wrote: »

LOI fans say you should support your own league first, but you can see how this would put Irish people off supporting the LOI. Nonsense.

CiaranC wrote: »

And lets not go down the road of pretending to be an LOI fan. Its plain to see who supports who on this forum.

In your opinion.

I never claimed to be a big fan of a LoI club but was asked why i would ignore Irish football which is not the case.

I live 50 miles from the nearest LoI club and growing up i was hardly aware it even existed. Even now it just doesnt register for most people in m my loclaity and who's fault is that?

Depending on work etc i regulalry went to game in the Showgrounds and Terryland and if my situation was different now and i lived in a city/town with a LoI club i would certainly start going again.

But i'm sorry by the time i was even aware the loi existed i was obsessed with football in the UK as most young lads were and so didnt establish any real affinity for an irish club when i was young and impressionable.

My first game was in the Showgrounds when my dad brought me to a cup game so i have a bit of a gra for them since and whn work allowe, would go to matches as much as i could. Similarily when i was a student in Galway i went to many matches in Terryland when i could afford to.

Joyce Country

KeithAFC wrote: »

It will happen. Some people just can't seem to accept that Northern Ireland is a different country. Watch out for the Ulster banners tonight.

9 county ulster banner or 6 county ulster banner? always makes me chuckle when i hear ulster being bandied about the place by unionists.

reprazant

premierstone wrote: »

I am not having a go at you personally CiaranC because I dont know you personally but you have got to admit that the vast majority of LOI fans have a serious chip on their shoulder when it comes to Celtic and EPL fans in this country and alot of them spend more time actually bit*hing about same rather than supporting and developing their own league.

Maybe they have a serious chip due to the fact that their clubs are going out f business because not enough people support them while the people spend loads going across the water to water matches there.

It must be galling to these clubs that there are more people in the pubs watching Scottish or English teams then who go to matches of clubs that are on their doorsteps.

KeithAFC

Joyce Country wrote: »

9 county ulster banner or 6 county ulster banner? always makes me chuckle when i hear ulster being bandied about the place by unionists.

The Ulster banner of a different country.

CiaranC

I despise the SPL and the Scottish football establishment but unfortunately it happens to be where Celtic are stuck for the present.

Dunno what to say to that. Where should Celtic be playing if not Scotland?

Eirebear

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

No, not really.

For two reasons. One. At no point in their childhood did they indicate that they were Scottish, both the players in question played underage for Ireland. They were never going to play for Scotland.

Two. Scotch football fans seem to have missed giving McLean and other Scots who declared for the North the same level of abuse. In fact, he got none. Funny that....

Ok step back.

A) As ive said before, it is not the supporters job to make their stadium welcoming for opposition players, and they will use any means possible in terms of vocality. I think you have said as much yourself too.
Yet as soon as it refers or relates to Ireland, suddenly words like "victims" and "hatred" and "bigot" get kicked about.

They are high profile players, and will always get more attention than the like of McLean, who isnt very good.
Do i need to ask if you understand "Football Culture" at all?

There is so much hypocrisy surrounding these issues its unreal.

Joyce Country

KeithAFC wrote: »

The Ulster banner of a different country.

:pac:

so ulster is only the 6 counties?

Coillte_Bhoy

KeithAFC wrote: »

It will happen. Some people just can't seem to accept that Northern Ireland is a different country. Watch out for the Ulster banners tonight.

Northern ireland is not s different country, it is a different state. Oh and as i'm sure you know, there are 9 counties in Ulster so why the billy boys will have Ulster banners, i dont know.:rolleyes:

KeithAFC

Joyce Country wrote: »

:pac:

so ulster is only the 6 counties?

The best of Ulster is.

Coillte_Bhoy

CiaranC wrote: »

Dunno what to say to that. Where should Celtic be playing if not Scotland?

I didnt say they should be playing anywhere else did i? Can you read?

Joyce Country

CiaranC wrote: »

Dunno what to say to that. Where should Celtic be playing if not Scotland?

cardiff manage to play in the english league no bother without moving from cardiff or losing their welsh identity.

CiaranC

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Rubbish.

We are producing FAR more and better talent in the LoI than the SPL.

Rovers produced a Nigerian U21 internatinal ffs, it has happened.

Im not saying our "system" (if you can call it that) hasnt produced players. Weve a player in the under U21s for today ourselves.

Our national team has no players playing in the national league. Scotland has seven. All but a handful of our players left Ireland to be developed in the UK from an early age, this is less true of Scottish football IMO. They have a proper football pyramid which integrates with their schools system and football academies. We have none of this.

CiaranC

Joyce Country wrote: »

cardiff manage to play in the english league no bother without moving from cardiff or losing their welsh identity.

So our Irish fans of a Scottish team want to move to England. You couldnt make it up. :pac:

Eirebear

KeithAFC wrote: »

It will happen. Some people just can't seem to accept that Northern Ireland is a different country. Watch out for the Ulster banners tonight.

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Northern ireland is not s different country, it is a different state. Oh and as i'm sure you know, there are 9 counties in Ulster so why the billy boys will have Ulster banners, i dont know.:rolleyes:

This is interesting (Although completely off topic, i apologise).

I know folks from both sides of the divide in Northern Ireland through a number of different reasons, and there seems to be quite a move within the majority of them to actually take pride in what they call "Their own wee country".

This seems to be something that the republican/nationalist and unionist/loyalist movements seem to miss out on in their blind tit for tat petty point scoring.

Maybe it is time for everyone to take a wee step back, let the people of Northern Ireland find their own identity, in the same way as the Scots and Welsh have from within the confines of the UK?

Dempsey

reprazant wrote: »

Maybe they have a serious chip due to the fact that their clubs are going out f business because not enough people support them while the people spend loads going across the water to water matches there.

It must be galling to these clubs that there are more people in the pubs watching Scottish or English teams then who go to matches of clubs that are on their doorsteps.

Closest LOI of Ireland club to me when I was growing up was Kilkenny City but if you think that a Tipperary man is going to turn up and support Kilkenny in any shape or form then you need your head examined. I support my local amateur club but there is no LOI club near me, certainly nothing to consider my doorstep.

Coillte_Bhoy

reprazant wrote: »

Maybe they have a serious chip due to the fact that their clubs are going out f business because not enough people support them while the people spend loads going across the water to water matches there.

It must be galling to these clubs that there are more people in the pubs watching Scottish or English teams then who go to matches of clubs that are on their doorsteps.

I totally understand what you say but surely the only way forward is to try and encourage these people to start going along to support their local teams? Even if they only become 'casual' fans and go now and again , then it's a start and can only grow from there.

One problem is the many LoI fans especially on here have a severe chip on their shoulder regarding lads supporting UK teams. They will give no quarter it seems and have a very condesceding attitute towards these people and instead of alienating them, they should be trying to encourage them to give the LoI a chance. There is a fair bit of goodwill out there among fans of UK teams but the hardened attitude of many LoI fans has to change or you can forget about increasing the league's fanbase.

Gavin "shels"

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

I live 50 miles from the nearest LoI club

Glasgow is 190 miles away.

Eirebear

CiaranC wrote: »

They have a proper football pyramid which integrates with their schools system and football academies. We have none of this.

Of course, if you play for Celtic that system comes with its own problems and you end up playing for Ireland!;)

Dempsey

Gavin shels wrote: »

Glasgow is 190 miles away.

I still find it easier to get to Celtic Park :pac:

Coillte_Bhoy

Gavin shels wrote: »

Glasgow is 190 miles away.

You love staing the bleeding obvious it seems. :rolleyes: If you cant understand the context in which i wrote that, well that says more about you than anything i could say.

KeithAFC

Gavin shels wrote: »

Glasgow is 190 miles away.

What are you going to do. Go watch a LOI game or Celtic in the CL or Rangers in the CL or Rangers V Celtic or a big league game which Rangers or celtic must win. Think about it.

Coillte_Bhoy

KeithAFC wrote: »

What are you going to do. Go watch a LOI game or Celtic in the CL or Rangers in the CL or Rangers V Celtic or a big league game which Rangers or celtic must win. Think about it.

Oh wishful thinking.:(

OhNoYouDidn't

KeithAFC wrote: »

What are you going to do. Go watch a LOI game or Celtic in the CL or Rangers in the CL or Rangers V Celtic or a big league game which Rangers or celtic must win. Think about it.

What are you going to do. Go watch a SPL game or Barca in the CL or Real in the CL or Real V Barca or a big league game which Real or Barca must win. Think about it

CiaranC

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

I totally understand what you say but surely the only way forward is to try and encourage these people to start going along to support their local teams? Even if they only become 'casual' fans and go now and again , then it's a start and can only grow from there.

One problem is the many LoI fans especially on here have a severe chip on their shoulder regarding lads supporting UK teams. They will give no quarter it seems and have a very condesceding attitute towards these people and instead of alienating them, they should be trying to encourage them to give the LoI a chance. There is a fair bit of goodwill out there among fans of UK teams but the hardened attitude of many LoI fans has to change or you can forget about increasing the league's fanbase.

This is just another on the long, long list of nonsensical cop-outs. "LOI fans arent nice to us on the internet so we support British football and let our own clubs die". What absolute ****ing rubbish.

Gavin "shels"

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

You love staing the bleeding obvious it seems. :rolleyes:

Gotta make it nice and clear for you!

KeithAFC wrote: »

What are you going to do. Go watch a LOI game or Celtic in the CL or Rangers in the CL or Rangers V Celtic or a big league game which Rangers or celtic must win. Think about it.

Or you could replace Rangers or the CL with a match against St.Mirren.

KeithAFC

Gavin shels wrote: »

Gotta make it nice and clear for you!



Or you could replace Rangers or the CL with a match against St.Mirren.

Yeah in a league which means far more to Rangers or Celtic fans all around the world than some LOI match which means very little to people around the world. Rangers and Celtic have fans all over the world.

smokedeels

....all that said, nobodies actually going tonight to boo rangers players are they?

KeithAFC

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

What are you going to do. Go watch a SPL game or Barca in the CL or Real in the CL or Real V Barca or a big league game which Real or Barca must win. Think about it

Rangers and Celtic mean more to people than the LOI. Same with Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool. Just reality.

CiaranC

KeithAFC wrote: »

What are you going to do. Go watch a LOI game or Celtic in the CL or Rangers in the CL or Rangers V Celtic or a big league game which Rangers or celtic must win. Think about it.

You do what football fans all over the world do. You go to your local side every week and take a few trips a year to other clubs you are interested in. Amazing that you would have to spell this out on a football forum.

KeithAFC wrote: »

Rangers and Celtic mean more to people than the LOI. Same with Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool. Just reality.

Lol, what?

Dempsey

CiaranC wrote: »

This is just another on the long, long list of nonsensical cop-outs. "LOI fans arent nice to us on the internet so we support British football and let our own clubs die". What absolute ****ing rubbish.

How do you blame the the supporters that you never had for financial mismanagement?

EDIT

Once again, the bitter LOI fans derail a thread to spout their tripe. Go back to the rocks ye crawled out from under please

reprazant

KeithAFC wrote: »

Yeah in a league which means far more to Rangers or Celtic fans all around the world than some LOI match which means very little to people around the world. Rangers and Celtic have fans all over the world.

So people should support Celtic and Rangers because they have more fans around the world?

That has to be the worst argument I have heard yet.

KeithAFC

reprazant wrote: »

So people should support Celtic and Rangers because they have more fans around the world?

That has to be the worst argument I have heard yet.

No. Having a go at Irish people in the republic who support Celtic and go to Celtic games rather than LOI games is lame. People go to Rangers games from Belfast every weekend to watch the Rangers because that is their club. Its one big family.

CiaranC

Dempsey wrote: »

How do you blame the the supporters that you never had for financial mismanagement?

EDIT

Once again, the bitter LOI fans derail a thread to spout their tripe. Go back to the rocks ye crawled out from under please

Wtf are you on about. I said that its a cop-out to say you dont attend football matches here due to the perceived attitudes of those who do. Absolutely nothing even remotely related to your post.

Dempsey

CiaranC wrote: »

Wtf are you on about. I said that its a cop-out to say you dont attend football matches here due to the perceived attitudes of those who do. Absolutely nothing even remotely related to your post.

How does a thread about Scotland & Northern Ireland and the booing that Rangers players might get, get to "cop-out to say you dont attend football matches here due to the perceived attitudes of those who do"?? LOI fans have been steering this thread towards that same auld tired fúcking argument.

reprazant

Dempsey wrote: »

How does a thread about Scotland & Northern Ireland get to "cop-out to say you dont attend football matches here due to the perceived attitudes of those who do"?? LOI fans have been steering this thread towards that same auld tired fúcking argument.

No they haven't.

Try reading the thread before launching in with your 'auld tired fúcking argument'.

premierstone

CiaranC wrote: »

You do what football fans all over the world do. You go to your local side every week and take a few trips a year to other clubs you are interested in. Amazing that you would have to spell this out on a football forum.

That is exactly what i do! But my 'local' soccer team is a junior team and I am no where near a LOI team, is that concept too difficult for some to grasp?? When I was in Dublin I attended Pats and Bohs games regularly and when I lived in Galway I was a regular at Terryland, but now I am living in North Tipp so I attend my local teams sunday league games and get over to Glasgow maybe 4 or 5 times a year, are you saying that this makes me any less of an Irish soccer fan than you??

CiaranC

Dempsey wrote:

How does a thread about Scotland & Northern Ireland and the booing that Rangers players might get, get to "cop-out to say you dont attend football matches here due to the perceived attitudes of those who do"?? LOI fans have been steering this thread towards that same auld tired fúcking argument.

Its a thread about the fans who are to attend this tournament and their attitudes and beliefs. Just because Irish fans of British clubs dont like the subject doesnt mean that the forum will stop talking about it to avoid hurting their feelings.

premierstone wrote: »

That is exactly what i do! But my 'local' soccer team is a junior team and I am no where near a LOI team, is that concept too difficult for some to grasp?? When I was in Dublin I attended Pats and Bohs games regularly and when I lived in Galway I was a regular at Terryland, but now I am living in North Tipp so I attend my local teams sunday league games and get over to Glasgow maybe 4 or 5 times a year, are you saying that this makes me any less of an Irish soccer fan than you??

No, Im not. Where did you get that from?

The fact remains that the huge majority of fans who support British football teams do not support Irish clubs.

Fr Tod Umptious

IBTL

Eirebear

Dempsey wrote: »

How does a thread about Scotland & Northern Ireland and the booing that Rangers players might get, get to "cop-out to say you dont attend football matches here due to the perceived attitudes of those who do"?? .

It's Rangers' fault.

Coillte_Bhoy

CiaranC wrote: »

This is just another on the long, long list of nonsensical cop-outs. "LOI fans arent nice to us on the internet so we support British football and let our own clubs die". What absolute ****ing rubbish.

Once again, you chose to ignore what i actually wrote. It's not a cop out, but the fact is you that LoI fans like you, with the attitudes you hold, are not going to persuade non LoI soccer fans to go along and experience local football.

And a big problem form the LoI point of view is that many of these potential fans don't regard the clubs as their 'own' as you say. Can you not see the inherent contradiction???

You can rant and rave all you want but do you actually have any concrete proposals yourself?? Or perhaps you want to keep the LoI for the 'pure' real fans like yourself and not have it contaminated by people who also have an interest in UK teams? The same attitude is also offputting for GAA fans who also have an interest in soccer. Right, over to you and just ignore what i've said as usual.

Dempsey

CiaranC wrote: »

Its a thread about the fans who are to attend this tournament and their attitudes and beliefs. Just because Irish fans of British clubs dont like the subject doesnt mean that the forum will stop talking about it to avoid hurting their feelings.

Then create a thread about the subject and keep it there. Oh wait, that has been done but ye cant resist taking it into every other thread anyways. Its not that I dont like the subject or dont want to talk about it, its just that I'm sick of other threads being derailed into that discussion.

CiaranC

Dempsey wrote: »

Then create a thread about the subject and keep it there. Oh wait, that has been done but ye cant resist taking it into every other thread anyways. Its not that I dont like the subject or dont want to talk about it, its just that I'm sick of other threads being derailed into that discussion.

Its not "de-railing", this a thread started by an Irish fan, on an Irish football forum, discussing the attitudes of Irish football fans who are attending a football match in Ireland.

If you dont want an Irish perspective on those who will attend this game or on football in general, go post on the many excellent British football sites set up for your British team.

CiaranC

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Once again, you chose to ignore what i actually wrote. It's not a cop out, but the fact is you that LoI fans like you, with the attitudes you hold, are not going to persuade non LoI soccer fans to go along and experience local football.

It is a cop-out. British fans think plastic paddy the daytripper turning up in Stamford bridge once a year is an absolute twat, but does that stop him coming? Like **** it does. So why are fans of British teams so sensitive about what LOI fans think of them all of a sudden?

Im not really arguing the rest of your points, Ive done them before in other threads. Use the search function.

OhNoYouDidn't

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

And a big problem form the LoI point of view is that many of these potential fans don't regard the clubs as their 'own' as you say. Can you not see the inherent contradiction???

So they go and find a club in a different country and claim that as their 'own'.

Does not compute.