Rangers players in Dublin

Dempsey

CiaranC wrote: »

Its not "de-railing", this a thread started by an Irish fan, on an Irish football forum, discussing the attitudes of Irish football fans who are attending a football match in Ireland.

If you dont want an Irish perspective on those who will attend this game or on football in general, go post on the many excellent British football sites set up for your British team.

Its actually about the potential consequences of booing Rangers players in the Scotland and Northern Ireland match based on the previous behaviour of Irish fans booing Rangers players playing for their country.

This isnt the thread for discussing why Irish football fans support British clubs over LOI, you should be creating one for that or bumping one of the previous car crash attempts of a thread to engage the forum on the subject.

OhNoYouDidn't

Dempsey wrote: »

How does a thread about Scotland & Northern Ireland and the booing that Rangers players might get, get to "cop-out to say you dont attend football matches here due to the perceived attitudes of those who do"?? LOI fans have been steering this thread towards that same auld tired fúcking argument.

Because its all part of the same myopic attitude some Irish 'fans' have about the game.

"You mean there will be booing?" and "My nearest professional team is 20 miles away. So I will supoort a team 200 miles away instead" are two sides of the same coin.

CiaranC

Dempsey wrote: »

Its actually about the potential consequences of booing Rangers players in the Scotland and Northern Ireland based on the previous behaviour of Irish fans booing Rangers players playing for their country.

And how does Irish fans support of Scottish teams and their motivations for doing so not feed into that same argument?

The_Kew_Tour

Rangers and Celtic threads= some amount of ****e talk

OhNoYouDidn't

CiaranC wrote: »

And how does Irish fans support of Scottish teams and their motivations for doing so not feed into that same argument?

Come on. You don't have to be a Celtic fan to have a dislike of Rangers and all their baggage.

OhNoYouDidn't

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Rangers and Celtic threads= some amount of ****e talk

Nearly as bad as the Man U and Liverpool ones, but Celtic and Rangers fans don't tend to wade in and waste your time with pointless contributions, do they?

Dempsey

CiaranC wrote: »

And how does Irish fans support of Scottish teams and their motivations for doing so not feed into that same argument?

The only reason, imo, it feeds into it is to determine whether they would be booing players in a sectarian or bigoted context which would be punishable (and hard to prove) by UEFA/FIFA..

What relevance does discussing Irish football fans supporting British clubs over LOI have to the point of this thread? It should be and has been discussed in other threads on its own to stop the likes of you de railing threads like this, go bump one of those or restart the discussion but keep it out of this one because its irrelevant and you know it.

Eirebear

So....does anyone actually care about this poor excuse for a tournament?!

reprazant

Judging by the numbers that went last night, and that are rumoured to be going tonight, no.

Paul4As

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Come on. You don't have to be a Celtic fan to have a dislike of Rangers and all their baggage.

I think the same can be said for Celtic...:)

Dempsey

Eirebear wrote: »

So....does anyone actually care about this poor excuse for a tournament?!

Its the only trophy that all 4 countries have a hope of winning....except Wales

CiaranC

Dempsey wrote: »

Its the only trophy that all 4 countries have a hope of winning....except Wales

Who you supporting in it then?

OhNoYouDidn't

Paul4As wrote: »

I think the same can be said for Celtic...:)

And if we were on boards.norniron maybe you would have a point.

We are not.

We are talking about Irish fans booing players of a club with a tradition and history of anti-Irish bigotry.

Paul4As

premierstone wrote: »

Paul, why was Neil Lennon hounded into retirement and hes family receiving death threats, was it because he was too defense minded in midfield perhaps?? :rolleyes:

The Neil Lennon incident was about 10 years ago...since then Northern Ireland football has come on leaps and bounds through various initiatives...I think Neil Lennon has even praised the IFA's efforts!!
Northern Ireland as a country has come on as well...you only have to look at the "Chuckle Brothers" at Stormont!!!
Move on Premierstone...like others in Northern Ireland!!
Good that Paddy McCourt and Niall McGinn refuse to be intimidated by whatever eejit it was who sent them the bullets!!! Maybe they have more of a desire to play for Northern Ireland than Lennon did??? Though I do thank Neil for his years playing for us, captaining us!!!

Pro. F

I've spent a little while thinking about this because I wasn't sure that I was really grasping the situation properly. If the booing was motivated by religious or cultural hatred then I could see UEFA having a point in imposing sanctions. But if the booing is only directed at players from one club then the situation is not as simple as that. Since it's only directed at Rangers players (not Protestants or Unionists or whatever) then it is not UEFA's place to be throwing their oar in imo.

I do think that anyone who goes along to the match to boo Rangers player is very bitter and sad though. It means that they will be booing both teams too.

And lol at the LOI holier than thou brigade falling over themselves at the opportunity to pore scorn on supporters of the national team. The LOI fanboys are a separate type of bitter sad people.

Paul4As

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And if we were on boards.norniron maybe you would have a point.

We are not.

We are talking about Irish fans booing players of a club with a tradition and history of anti-Irish bigotry.

Do Celtic not have elements within their support which are anti-British??? You can't post loads of "bad" stuff about Rangers when the exact bigotry can be said for some Celtic supporters!!!

Dempsey

CiaranC wrote: »

Who you supporting in it then?

IRELAND

Why? :rolleyes:

premierstone

Paul4As wrote: »

The Neil Lennon incident was about 10 years ago...since then Northern Ireland football has come on leaps and bounds through various initiatives...I think Neil Lennon has even praised the IFA's efforts!!
Northern Ireland as a country has come on as well...you only have to look at the "Chuckle Brothers" at Stormont!!!
Move on Premierstone...like others in Northern Ireland!!
Good that Paddy McCourt and Niall McGinn refuse to be intimidated by whatever eejit it was who sent them the bullets!!! Maybe they have more of a desire to play for Northern Ireland than Lennon did??? Though I do thank Neil for his years playing for us, captaining us!!!

Rubbish tbh, anyone who would question Neil Lennons commitment or desire to play for Northern Ireland either has a very short memory span or conveniently choose to ignore what the man and he's family were put through, all over the Club he played for and he played on untill members of hes family were actually phsically threatened.

But we can forget that though as it happened soooo long ago and what happened Paddy McCourt and Neil McGinn was just the harmless act of an isolated idiot but jaysus them feckin Irish fans better not boo our players who do they think they are :rolleyes:

Paparazzo

Pro. F wrote: »

I've spent a little while thinking about this because I wasn't sure that I was really grasping the situation properly. If the booing was motivated by religious or cultural hatred then I could see UEFA having a point in imposing sanctions. But if the booing is only directed at players from one club then the situation is not as simple as that. Since it's only directed at Rangers players (not Protestants or Unionists or whatever) then it is not UEFA's place to be throwing their oar in imo.

I do think that anyone who goes along to the match to boo Rangers player is very bitter and sad though. It means that they will be booing both teams too.

And lol at the LOI holier than thou brigade falling over themselves at the opportunity to pore scorn on supporters of the national team. The LOI fanboys are a separate type of bitter sad people.

You were doing so well up until the last paragraph. When you yourself come across as the bitter one

OhNoYouDidn't

Paul4As wrote: »

Do Celtic not have elements within their support which are anti-British??? You can't post loads of "bad" stuff about Rangers when the exact bigotry can be said for some Celtic supporters!!!

Maybe they do.

But the key difference is that was their FANS. And the club clamp down on it.

The bigotry at Rangers comes from within.

CiaranC

Dempsey wrote: »

Why? :rolleyes:

What do you mean why? I was wondering who youd be supporting in the tournament, thats all. You answer like its obvious or something.

Pro.F wrote:

And lol at the LOI holier than thou brigade falling over themselves at the opportunity to pore scorn on supporters of the national team. The LOI fanboys are a separate type of bitter sad people.

Pathetic. Id say attacking Irish football fans for supporting Irish football clubs and voicing their opinions from that perspective is the very definition of "bitter and sad".

LeeroyJones

CiaranC wrote: »

Of course they are, you read this forum dont you?

Its hard to know where to start. Leeroyjones and his assertion that football fans should be more gentlemanly in their conduct, the rabidly anti-Irish Celtic fan Damo, Coillte bhoy suggesting Stovelid wants Ireland back in the UK while simultaneously devoting all his attention to British football, the Rangers guy saying Rangers are not anti-Irish Catholic, the barstoolers hammering Robbie Keane because he isnt up to the level of "their" latest megastar signing, the list goes on and on.

This forum is a perfect reflection of how entirely mixed up and clueless Irish football "fans" are.

Wow, the irony of this comment...
Talk about reading something and assuming your own spin on it!

I'll make my point once more.

Booing a player on the basis of a club he plays for is idiotic and pathetic.
Unfortunately this happens in football, I've never brought this issue up with anyone but as a thread was set up on the topic I decided to give my 2 cents.
For my 2 cents, it has been suggested that I never attend a football match ever again and now I am been accused of telling fellow football fans to be more gentlemanly in their conduct.
I don't tell or"assert" people what to do, they're grown adults, they can act as they want. If I think they're actions are idiotic and pathetic-I'm entitled to my opinion, particularly when a thread is set up on the topic.

KeithAFC

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

And if we were on boards.norniron maybe you would have a point.

We are not.

We are talking about Irish fans booing players of a club with a tradition and history of anti-Irish bigotry.

So?

maximoose

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Maybe they do.

But the key difference is that was their FANS. And the club clamp down on it.

The bigotry at Rangers comes from within.

Please elaborate on that...

KeithAFC

Paul4As wrote: »

Do Celtic not have elements within their support which are anti-British??? You can't post loads of "bad" stuff about Rangers when the exact bigotry can be said for some Celtic supporters!!!

No. Lets ignore all the anti British sentiment from Celtic fans which ring around the stands week in week out. Lets ignore the banners with the IRA on them. An organisation which likes to plant bombs near chip shops and blow kids to peices.

Dempsey

CiaranC wrote: »

What do you mean why? I was wondering who youd be supporting in the tournament, thats all. You answer like its obvious or something.

Why are you only interested in who I'm supporting is more the point.

It should be obvious that the majority of people on this forum support Ireland, the ones that dont stick out like a sore thumb.

CiaranC

LeeroyJones wrote: »

Wow, the irony of this comment...
Talk about reading something and assuming your own spin on it!

Leeroy, you clearly said that you attend football and GAA games and that it would be desirable for football fans to conduct themselves more like the fans of those sports.

If football fans started carrying on like Rugby or GAA fans it would finally destroy the game in this country. The traditional football atmosphere is one of the few things we have going for us.

Dempsey

KeithAFC wrote: »

No. Lets ignore all the anti British sentiment from Celtic fans which ring around the stands week in week out. Lets ignore the banners with the IRA on them. An organisation which likes to plant bombs near chip shops and blow kids to peices.

And lets ignore the pro british sentiment from Rangers supporters. A country that has a history of genocide in this country.

Any anti British sentiment I have is well founded and I'll make no apology for it

Jazzy

scottish football teams eh

Pro. F

Paparazzo wrote: »

You were doing so well up until the last paragraph. When you yourself come across as the bitter one

I disagree obviously.

But I don't want you to think that I rank LOI fanboy bitterness alongside the Nationalist bitterness that would motivate someone to go to this game simply to boo Rangers players. I don't at all. The second one is a way beyond the first.

CiaranC wrote: »

Pathetic. Id say attacking Irish football fans for supporting Irish football clubs and voicing their opinions from that perspective is the very definition of "bitter and sad".

Are you saying that I was attacking Irish football fans for supporting Irish football clubs? I wasn't. I was criticising the ones who leap on every opportunity they can dream up to pass judgement on the Irish football fans who are different to them.

KeithAFC

Dempsey wrote: »

And lets ignore the pro british sentiment from Rangers supporters. A country that has a history of genocide in this country.

Any anti British sentiment I have is well founded and I'll make no apology for it

Same with anti Irish sentiment with the PIRA.

Dempsey

KeithAFC wrote: »

Same with anti Irish sentiment with the PIRA.

You wont find PIRA banners or chants in CP or at away matches

CiaranC

Dempsey wrote:

It should be obvious that the majority of people on this forum support Ireland, the ones that dont stick out like a sore thumb.

Its not obvious. Plenty of people on here choose to support clubs for arbitrary reasons, theres nothing to stop them doing the same with national teams.

Dempsey wrote: »

And lets ignore the pro british sentiment from Rangers supporters. A country that has a history of genocide in this country.

Any anti British sentiment I have is well founded and I'll make no apology for it

Funny you are not so anti-British as to stop paying your aul euros over to Celtic FC: publically limited company by appointment to her majesty the queen and traded on the London stock exchange instead of supporting your own football clubs.

Irish Celtic fans must be the worlds most confused nationalists. :pac:

KeithAFC

Dempsey wrote: »

You wont find PIRA banners or chants in CP or at away matches

Iv seen IRA banners at CP before. If we go by the republican nationalist logic, they don't see any difference between the 1916 IRA and the PIRA of the 70s.

Dempsey

KeithAFC wrote: »

Iv seen IRA banners at CP before. If we go by the republican nationalist logic, they don't see any difference between the 1916 IRA and the PIRA of the 70s.

You're thinking of CIRA tbh

LeeroyJones

CiaranC wrote: »

Leeroy, you clearly said that you attend football and GAA games and that it would be desirable for football fans to conduct themselves more like the fans of those sports.

If football fans started carrying on like Rugby or GAA fans it would finally destroy the game in this country. The traditional football atmosphere is one of the few things we have going for us.

No, this is what I said

As a sporting fan I have attended many different high profile fixtures in many sports.
At a rugby match between Leinster-Munster or Ireland-England there is an electric and passionate atmosphere and little or no booing (any booing tends to be from the schools section)

At a hurling or football All-Ireland there is also a tremendous atmosphere, and again there is next to no booing.

Soccer matches also have great atmospheres, but when there are boos aimed at players or officials I can do nothing but cringe

You can have banter between sets of fans and tongue in cheek chants because each set of supporters give as good as they get.

This was after somebody made a point which implied that booing is part of the fabric which makes a great atmosphere. I wasn't on a high-horse telling or asserting that people must act in a certain way.
I used other sports as an example of sports which have less booing at players based on the teams they play for in order to highlight sporting fixtures which have atmospheres on a par, or maybe even better, with/than football matches. In other words, I was countering a point I disagreed with.

I disagree with your second point there. One of the things I love about attending rugby and GAA fixtures is that you can be seated, or stood, beside a die hard fan of an arch rival and have some banter for the whole match. For me that's a core aspect to a great atmosphere.

OhNoYouDidn't

KeithAFC wrote: »

No. Lets ignore all the anti British sentiment from Celtic fans which ring around the stands week in week out. Lets ignore the banners with the IRA on them. An organisation which likes to plant bombs near chip shops and blow kids to peices.

Is that why Rangers fans routinely assault Irish Celtic players and management? Death threats from OWC fans to their own who play for Celtic?

The key difference is singing a rebel song at Celtic is a lifetime banning offence.

There have been no banners with IRA on them at Celtic games. Ever.

Rangers operated a sectarian signing policy until the 1980's. They still have not played an Irishman from the nationalist tradition, the only club in Britain not to have done so. Despite the courts declaring a number of their fans songs to be illegal, Rangers have never taken action against anyone singing them.

Do I have to dig out that picture of Rangers fans in Israel doing Nazi salutes again?

KeithAFC

Dempsey wrote: »

You're thinking of CIRA tbh

Am i really? Some people would not see the difference.

OhNoYouDidn't

KeithAFC wrote: »

Iv seen IRA banners at CP before. If we go by the republican nationalist logic, they don't see any difference between the 1916 IRA and the PIRA of the 70s.

Hold up. You appear to be playing semantics. You saw a banner at Celtic Park with the letters I, R and A on them, in that order?

Dempsey

KeithAFC wrote: »

Am i really? Some people would not see the difference.

They shouldnt be spouting ignorant opinions then

OhNoYouDidn't

LeeroyJones wrote: »

.

I disagree with your second point there. One of the things I love about attending rugby and GAA fixtures is that you can be seated, or stood, beside a die hard fan of an arch rival and have some banter for the whole match. For me that's a core aspect to a great atmosphere.

Good for you. To most of us thats symptomatic of the fact that rivalries based on a British civil servents pen strokes aren't really rivalries in the way football ones based on politics, religion, class etc are.

You prefer the peace and love element of the Gah. Good for you. I prefer the white hot atmosphere of a derby and not having to share space with the black and tans. Good for me.

Pro. F

CiaranC wrote: »

Its not obvious. Plenty of people on here choose to support clubs for arbitrary reasons, theres nothing to stop them doing the same with national teams.

It is obvious that the majority on here who support any national team support the Irish one. You are just pretending to be ignorant of it so you can bang LOI drum some more.

KeithAFC

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Is that why Rangers fans routinely assault Irish Celtic players and management? Death threats from OWC fans to their own who play for Celtic?

The key difference is singing a rebel song at Celtic is a lifetime banning offence.

There have been no banners with IRA on them at Celtic games. Ever.

Rangers operated a sectarian signing policy until the 1980's. They still have not played an Irishman from the nationalist tradition, the only club in Britain not to have done so. Despite the courts declaring a number of their fans songs to be illegal, Rangers have never taken action against anyone singing them.

Do I have to dig out that picture of Rangers fans in Israel doing Nazi salutes again?

Your anti Rangers propaganda won't work with me as i have a clue what i am talking about.

That 'Nazi' salute you seen was not a 'Nazi' salute but the red hand of Ulster salute. Although, i don't know many Unionists who like it really.

CiaranC

LeeroyJones wrote: »

I disagree with your second point there. One of the things I love about attending rugby and GAA fixtures is that you can be seated, or stood, beside a die hard fan of an arch rival and have some banter for the whole match. For me that's a core aspect to a great atmosphere.

Alright, point taken Leeroy.

That said, football really is different than Rugby or Gah. Its a different culture, primarily of young, working class males local to an area who are pretty fanatical about their club. This is still the case in Ireland and used to be the case at the top level in England, though less so today. Elsewhere though, it is still very much the case.

I dont want to stand next to a Bohs fan at the Dublin derby, because for those 90 minutes at least (and a few more besides) I really hate him! For me the core tenet of the atmosphere is often the real edge in these fixtures. There is nothing quite like the pure vitriol spilling out of section F&G towards us in Dalymount Park on a cold Friday night under lights. When they score against us, you can FEEL the hate and contempt from them. And next time we play them, we will remember, its in all of our collective memories as fans and we take it with us. Its magical really

Same as the match tonight, you cant really expect fans not to boo players, even if their reasons are a bit ridiculous.

OhNoYouDidn't

KeithAFC wrote: »

Your anti Rangers propaganda won't work with me as i have a clue what i am talking about.

That 'Nazi' salute you seen was not a 'Nazi' salute but the red hand of Ulster salute. Although, i don't know many Unionists who like it really.

Red hand salute my arse.

Now finish the story. What happened to that chap with the flag?

premierstone

KeithAFC wrote: »

Your anti Rangers propaganda won't work with me as i have a clue what i am talking about.

That 'Nazi' salute you seen was not a 'Nazi' salute but the red hand of Ulster salute. Although, i don't know many Unionists who like it really.

LOL you had me fooled.

Yeah sure it was, so they just hapened to take it on themselves to perform this salute (Scotish Rangers fans btw) when they were in Israel and sure they were only having a wee street party in Manchester that time aswell, poor auld bears everyone is always picking on them :rolleyes:

KeithAFC

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Red hand salute my arse.

Now finish the story. What happened to that chap with the flag?

Who cares what happened with him. He was banned i think. Rightly so. Anyone with such a banner should be banned. The point is you said no IRA banner has ever been at a celtic game which has been debunked completely.

And it was the red hand of ulster. Probably from people who haven't stepped foot in Ulster but still. The Unionist community actually has more support towards the Israeli people in that conflict. So why they would make a Nazi salute would go completely against that. So it is a nonsense to suggest otherwise.

CiaranC

Pro. F wrote: »

It is obvious that the majority on here who support any national team support the Irish one. You are just pretending to be ignorant of it so you can bang LOI drum some more.

Oh ffs, I was talking directly to Dempsey. Its not obvious who any single poster would support without using the search function on this forum. People invent reasons to support clubs here all the time. They dont support teams from where they are from in the majority of cases.

Dempsey

CiaranC wrote: »

Funny you are not so anti-British as to stop paying your aul euros over to Celtic FC: publically limited company by appointment to her majesty the queen and traded on the London stock exchange instead of supporting your own football clubs.

Irish Celtic fans must be the worlds most confused nationalists. :pac:

I said any anti british sentiment I have is well founded which means I would have good reason, not some superiority/inferiority complex or anything irrational.

You're right, I'm not anti British to the point where I would be petty or hypocritical, I dont care that a percentage of the money I spend on Celtic goes towards the British Government, but a higher percentage goes towards jobs and supporting Celtic. Still beats supporting a LOI club.

OhNoYouDidn't

KeithAFC wrote: »

Who cares what happened with him. He was banned i think. Rightly so. Anyone with such a banner should be banned. The point is you said no IRA banner has ever been at a celtic game which has been debunked completely.

And it was the red hand of ulster. Probably from people who haven't stepped foot in Ulster but still. The Unionist community actually has more support towards the Israeli people in that conflict. So why they would make a Nazi salute would go completely against that. So it is a nonsense to suggest otherwise.

Sigh.

Celtic fan waves homemade IRA flag. He gets arrested, prosecuted and banned for life. It was in Hamden by the way....

Rangers fans do Nazi salutes in Israel. Nothing happens, you defend it.

Can you spot the difference yet?