Rangers players in Dublin

Tchaikovsky

Paul4As wrote: »

The Neil Lennon incident was about 10 years ago...since then Northern Ireland football has come on leaps and bounds through various initiatives...I think Neil Lennon has even praised the IFA's efforts!!
Northern Ireland as a country has come on as well...you only have to look at the "Chuckle Brothers" at Stormont!!!
Move on Premierstone...like others in Northern Ireland!!
Good that Paddy McCourt and Niall McGinn refuse to be intimidated by whatever eejit it was who sent them the bullets!!! Maybe they have more of a desire to play for Northern Ireland than Lennon did??? Though I do thank Neil for his years playing for us, captaining us!!!

There was no trouble at the Poland match last year then?

flas

KeithAFC wrote: »

Allow people with logical opinions please.

i will when there is one given. red hand salute? there is no such thing.

keano_afc

Rangers "Red Hand" salute.



Official Nazi salute.

Honestly, I've no idea how people are mixing these up. Clear difference.:pac:
Keith, I've a lot of friends in Belfast. A couple of them are loyalists. They've never heard of this so called Red Hand salute. Will you give it a rest.

Sizzler

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

No but then again he's Algerian

LOlz, same principle. Are the clowns that boo only booing because the players are scottish rangers players :rolleyes:

PauloMN

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

This fixture between Scotland and NI must surely feature the largest amount of Rangers players at one time playing in the national stadium and perhaps could prove a problem. The attendance is said to be low so perhaps that will make it less of a problem?

What does everyone think? Will the game go smoothly? Will it be marred by booing of certain players? Hopefully it passes off smoothly and turns out to be an enjoyable evening.

Back to the OP, didn't notice any booing last night, if there was it wasn't audible on the TV feed.

The only shock last night was how poor NI were. Made Scotland look like Spain. :eek:

Paul4As

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

There was no trouble at the Poland match last year then?

Do you know who it was who caused the trouble? Have you read the reports...seen the newspapers...do you know who was arrested? You should really do your research before you attempt to put the blame on someone or a group!
Well may be I shall fill you in...a few bad people from Poland who have absolutely no interest in football came over...need I elaborate??? Also...only Polish were arrested!!
What section of the crowd did the the riot police have to surround in the stadium? Polish supporters!!!
I assume you watched the Donal McIntyre report on TV3 about that game!!!

Pro. F

CiaranC wrote: »

Well done sherlock youve solved the internet

youre like the barstooler version of Freddie from Scooby Doo

Well done, very mature. You were feigning honest interest in Dempsey's choice of national team so you could rehash old arguments. When I call you up on it you just fling around insults. What a champion for the cause you are.

major bill

Paul4As wrote: »

Do you know who it was who caused the trouble? Have you read the reports...seen the newspapers...do you know who was arrested? You should really do your research before you attempt to put the blame on someone or a group!
Well may be I shall fill you in...a few bad people from Poland who have absolutely no interest in football came over...need I elaborate??? Also...only Polish were arrested!!
What section of the crowd did the the riot police have to surround in the stadium? Polish supporters!!!
I assume you watched the Donal McIntyre report on TV3 about that game!!!

it was a game that was always gonna have trouble......polish,romanian,asian people have recieved awful abuse in the north in recent years so i wasnt surprised there was a backlash at the football!!

KeithAFC

flas wrote: »

i will when there is one given. red hand salute? there is no such thing.

Did you actually read what my posts said?

They are TRYING to replicate the red hand of Ulster. Read the posts. I never said there was a big tradition with this sort of thing amongst loyalists. I said replicate.

They aren't Nazis and doing the Nazi salute. So please, lets use logic please.

major bill

KeithAFC wrote: »

Did you actually read what my posts said?

They are TRYING to replicate the red hand of Ulster. Read the posts. I never said there was a big tradition with this sort of thing amongst loyalists. I said replicate.

They aren't Nazis and doing the Nazi salute. So please, lets use logic please.

loyalists trying to replicate a nationalist symbol:eek:

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

Did you actually read what my posts said?

They are TRYING to replicate the red hand of Ulster. Read the posts. I never said there was a big tradition with this sort of thing amongst loyalists. I said replicate.

They aren't Nazis and doing the Nazi salute. So please, lets use logic please.

They should cut their hands off and chuck em onto the pitch instead!

flas

KeithAFC wrote: »

Did you actually read what my posts said?

They are TRYING to replicate the red hand of Ulster. Read the posts. I never said there was a big tradition with this sort of thing amongst loyalists. I said replicate.

They aren't Nazis and doing the Nazi salute. So please, lets use logic please.

this is the part i dont understand that you are trying to get across, that loyalists are trying to replicate a nationalist symbol? your clued up enough in your history to understand what the red hand of ulster stands for i take it?

KeithAFC

flas wrote: »

this is the part i dont understand that you are trying to get across, that loyalists are trying to replicate a nationalist symbol? your clued up enough in your history to understand what the red hand of ulster stands for i take it?

It would be delusion to think the Red hand Of Ulster is ONLY a nationalist symbol when the Ulster Scots have been using it for a long time and have adapted it as a symbol too. The crown is something you will see above it. No one is denying it isn't used by republicans too.

And yes, i know about the O'neils and all that.

flas

KeithAFC wrote: »

It would be delusion to think the Red hand Of Ulster is ONLY a nationalist symbol when the Ulster Scots have been using it for a long time and have adapted it as a symbol too. The crown is something you will see above it. No one is denying it isn't used by republicans too.

And yes, i know about the O'neils and all that.

if celtic drew a team from israel in europe and proceded to unfurl big flags and banners with swastika's on them and then when asked about it they started claiming that they were simply showing the hindu symbol of peace(swastika), would everyone in this part of the world think that is ok, given the way this would be taken up?

Paul4As

major bill wrote: »

it was a game that was always gonna have trouble......polish,romanian,asian people have recieved awful abuse in the north in recent years so i wasnt surprised there was a backlash at the football!!

I don't think these footballing hooligans from Poland were out to settle scores...I don't think they would know the meaning of the word "revenge"...too big of a word for their tiny, but violence controlled brain!!!

Tchaikovsky

Paul4As wrote: »

Do you know who it was who caused the trouble? Have you read the reports...seen the newspapers...do you know who was arrested? You should really do your research before you attempt to put the blame on someone or a group!
Well may be I shall fill you in...a few bad people from Poland who have absolutely no interest in football came over...need I elaborate??? Also...only Polish were arrested!!
What section of the crowd did the the riot police have to surround in the stadium? Polish supporters!!!
I assume you watched the Donal McIntyre report on TV3 about that game!!!

A friend of a friend was translator with the Polish team for that game actually and saw the trouble- it wasn't from one side and if you think it was you're either very naive or completely in denial.
Tell me, was it the Polish fans who were booing their national anthem aswell? Did they quickly run over to the home section to chuck missiles on to the pitch during the match? Were they booing Artur Boruc (although after that howler he made, they probably were!)?

Tchaikovsky

Paul4As wrote: »

I don't think these footballing hooligans from Poland were out to settle scores...I don't think they would know the meaning of the word "revenge"...too big of a word for their tiny, but violence controlled brain!!!

Wait, how come when Poland played in Croke Park the previous year, there was absolutely no trouble? Do they have an annual draw to pick which country their hooligans will go to?

maximoose

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

Wait, how come when Poland played in Croke Park the previous year, there was absolutely no trouble? Do they have an annual draw to pick which country their hooligans will go to?

Apparently so.

I was at that match - and saw trouble before, during and after that was clear to all initiated by polish "fans". Thousands turned up who weren't even going to the game just to cause trouble.

Belfast Telegraph

Around 5,000 Polish fans were making their way to the stadium even though only 1,000 had tickets for the match.

Anyone who was there or has watched the cctv would have seen the droves of polish marching up around the Wetherspoons where most of the trouble kicked off. No trouble at all in the pub then they came up and launched a chair through the window and started fights.

As for this "Red Hand Salute", yeah it exists.. every one from Northern Ireland knows what it is i'm sure. But anyone who believes that this is what the Rangers fans were doing in Israel is kidding themselves.

Eirebear

maximoose wrote: »

.

As for this "Red Hand Salute", yeah it exists.. every one from Northern Ireland knows what it is i'm sure. But anyone who believes that this is what the Rangers fans were doing in Israel is kidding themselves.

I didnt want to get involved in this, but feck it, heres my tuppenceworth.

The "Red Hand Salute" doesnt particularly exist as far as i know, not in a widespread Northern irish Unionist sense anyway.

However, i do believe that a certain amount of people who do it, or have done it in the past, actually think that this is what they are doing.

It's very easy for people to sit back and say "it doesnt exist, therefore it must be a nazi salute" when in fact, the very point that if even one of those people in the picture believed at that point in time they were doing a Red Hand Salute, then for them, it existed.
They maybe realised at a later point that their gesture was sheer folly, and interpreted as something else, however that makes it a symbol of stupidity rather than one of neo-nazism.

Another point i will add to my largely ignored one about UEFA dropping the charges, i assume for similar reasons to what ive just written - look at the picture. Count the people doing the salute. They are a minority. It is an extremely misleading image given the angle, crop and positioning of the 14 people involved.

maximoose

The Red hand salute exists, but is very very rarely actually ever used. I'm from a predominantly Protestant area of Norn Iron and have seen it a few, but not many, times..mainly when "I'm Ulster 'til I Die" is being sung.

But lets get back to these Rangers fans. Why would Scottish supporters of Rangers be doing a "salute" that has no affiliation with Scotland? Look at the picture, I see supporters club's flags for Oakley, Whiflett, Plymouth, Dunfermline... but not one Ulster flag. Which you will see at Ibrox and other Rangers away games all the time around people from Northern Ireland.

I dont believe for a second that this is what the Rangers fans were doing, look at the shape of their hands as well. A red hand salute is more of a traffic policeman's Stop sign than a Nazi salute.

I've nothing against Rangers, I despise all the ridiculous Celtic/Rangers religious based rivalry both sides of the border, and the scottish league in General. But IMO this is just stupidity from a small minority of Rangers fans intended to make controversy for the sake of it.

Pauleta

Havnt looked at this thread in days and its suddenly about Polish fans

BTW The Poles have the worst rep in the whole of Europe. To blame the nordies on what happened up there is bizarre. And there was no trouble when Poland played here because it was a friendly and it was attended by ex pats. Where as for the competitive game in the north Poland's healthy population of hooligans traveled added to the ex pats here and in the UK.

There are some serious hate filled people on this thread

Culann

This is my first post in this forum, I joined it yesterday after reading this thread. I normally read/post in Photography. I am also English and a Man City fan, living here for 7 years...so there's the background.

Anyway, I'm just curious, getting back to the booing Rangers players because they play for a bigoted club issue:

Booing Rangers players because they play for an anti-Catholic club and supporting Celtic because of the Irish links - fair enough. I'm sure, though, that there must be some overlap between Celtic supporters who would boo Rangers who also support English Premier teams (the usual suspects of Utd etc.).
How do these people reconcile showing displeasure to one anti-catholic club yet happily support a club based in a whole country that, for the best part of a 1000 years, has been intent on persecuting Catholics well beyond the point of 'mere' bigotry?

Fr Tod Umptious

Culann wrote: »

This is my first post in this forum, I joined it yesterday after reading this thread. I normally read/post in Photography. I am also English and a Man City fan, living here for 7 years...so there's the background.

Anyway, I'm just curious, getting back to the booing Rangers players because they play for a bigoted club issue:

Booing Rangers players because they play for an anti-Catholic club and supporting Celtic because of the Irish links - fair enough. I'm sure, though, that there must be some overlap between Celtic supporters who would boo Rangers who also support English Premier teams (the usual suspects of Utd etc.).
How do these people reconcile showing displeasure to one anti-catholic club yet happily support a club based in a whole country that, for the best part of a 1000 years, has been intent on persecuting Catholics well beyond the point of 'mere' bigotry?

Just a little history lesson, the Protestant Reformation happened about 500 years ago
And England became a Protestant country shortly after that

So they would really have been persecuting themselves for the 500 years before that

Culann

So they would really have been persecuting themselves for the 500 years before that

Perhaps I should have been more specific: England persecuting Catholics, Irish Catholics, the Irish, in Ireland.

KeithAFC

Eirebear wrote: »

I didnt want to get involved in this, but feck it, heres my tuppenceworth.

The "Red Hand Salute" doesnt particularly exist as far as i know, not in a widespread Northern irish Unionist sense anyway.

However, i do believe that a certain amount of people who do it, or have done it in the past, actually think that this is what they are doing.

It's very easy for people to sit back and say "it doesnt exist, therefore it must be a nazi salute" when in fact, the very point that if even one of those people in the picture believed at that point in time they were doing a Red Hand Salute, then for them, it existed.
They maybe realised at a later point that their gesture was sheer folly, and interpreted as something else, however that makes it a symbol of stupidity rather than one of neo-nazism.

Another point i will add to my largely ignored one about UEFA dropping the charges, i assume for similar reasons to what ive just written - look at the picture. Count the people doing the salute. They are a minority. It is an extremely misleading image given the angle, crop and positioning of the 14 people involved.

Exactly what i was putting across 2-3 pages ago. No one seems to read the posts on here. Its just jump right in, blah blah.

Coillte_Bhoy

KeithAFC wrote: »

Exactly what i was putting across 2-3 pages ago. No one seems to read the posts on here. Its just jump right in, blah blah.

Just give it up Keith will ya :rolleyes:

OhNoYouDidn't

KeithAFC wrote: »

Exactly what i was putting across 2-3 pages ago. No one seems to read the posts on here. Its just jump right in, blah blah.

Its the polar opposite of what you were saying ffs.

KeithAFC

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Its the polar opposite of what you were saying ffs.

Again, not reading the posts. PLEASE, read the posts. I said they are trying to replicate it. I didn't say it was a huge tradition or something which is big in the loyalist tradition.

The whole argument was 'they are doing Nazi salutes, omfg'. No. If people educated themselves and used logic, they would see that is not the case. Does that mean racists don't follow Rangers? Of course not.

Its just in that picture. I posted a similar picture with another group of fans doing the same thing, a black guy even doing it.

major bill

maximoose wrote: »

Apparently so.

I was at that match - and saw trouble before, during and after that was clear to all initiated by polish "fans". Thousands turned up who weren't even going to the game just to cause trouble.



Anyone who was there or has watched the cctv would have seen the droves of polish marching up around the Wetherspoons where most of the trouble kicked off. No trouble at all in the pub then they came up and launched a chair through the window and started fights.

As for this "Red Hand Salute", yeah it exists.. every one from Northern Ireland knows what it is i'm sure. But anyone who believes that this is what the Rangers fans were doing in Israel is kidding themselves.

i can tell ye know for certain it wasnt all down to poland fans...FACT!!!

Pauleta

major bill wrote: »

i can tell ye know for certain it wasnt all down to poland fans...FACT!!!

Were you there? and if you were, do you have evidence to prove your "Fact" statement

major bill

Pauleta wrote: »

Were you there? and if you were, do you have evidence to prove your "Fact" statement

hold on il just give ye a link to a badly written article in some rag of a paper.....:rolleyes: i know of people that were there so yea!!!!:P

Pauleta

major bill wrote: »

hold on il just give ye a link to a badly written article in some rag of a paper.....:rolleyes: i know of people that were there so yea!!!!:P

Word of mouth isnt a "Fact" then.

Tchaikovsky

Culann wrote: »

This is my first post in this forum, I joined it yesterday after reading this thread. I normally read/post in Photography. I am also English and a Man City fan, living here for 7 years...so there's the background.

Anyway, I'm just curious, getting back to the booing Rangers players because they play for a bigoted club issue:

Booing Rangers players because they play for an anti-Catholic club and supporting Celtic because of the Irish links - fair enough. I'm sure, though, that there must be some overlap between Celtic supporters who would boo Rangers who also support English Premier teams (the usual suspects of Utd etc.).
How do these people reconcile showing displeasure to one anti-catholic club yet happily support a club based in a whole country that, for the best part of a 1000 years, has been intent on persecuting Catholics well beyond the point of 'mere' bigotry?

Well alot of English clubs, those based in cities with strong Irish communities, have Irish catholic roots- Manchester United in particular.

major bill

Pauleta wrote: »

Word of mouth isnt a "Fact" then.

considering word of mouth is from a non nationalist opinion i would believe it more than some of the sh1te written in the papers......most football ''hooligan'' events that the papers write about are mostly made up fantasy stories blown out of proportion........bohs on the luas and rovers numberous times mentioned been an example and not forgetting the papers overreaction to linfield's ''infamous'' trip to richmond park.

anyway stirring of course now!!

Dempsey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qwP6Ih5Eds

The word I'd like to use to describe them is actually banned in the charter, how about that!

Pauleta

I think i like Norn Iron fans now. They hate nut job republicans and catholics. Ive no time for republican nut jobs and after the years of oppression in our great nation by the catholic church i also hate catholicism. If i didnt think international football was so pointless id join the green and white army :pac:

dreamers75

Any nordie fans i have met via the Setanta cup have always been decent fans, altho that relies on when Gardai let us meet them. Linfield fans being the best of the lot.

Seems we allowed a few pints with Cliftonville next week :cool: Hope we can return the favour.

losthorizon

Joyce Country wrote: »

Maybe some day I will a nationalist 6 county fan

Funny though when NI was good in the 80s you had plenty of nationalists playing for them. I can just about remember 1982 (ie WC in Spain) - at that stage NI had a pretty good team with players from both sides of the divide. All of whom wanted to play for the team. I wonder was it because the Republic had never qualified for anything?

losthorizon

KeithAFC wrote: »

Yeah in a league which means far more to Rangers or Celtic fans all around the world than some LOI match which means very little to people around the world. Rangers and Celtic have fans all over the world.

Shamrock Rovers have fans all over the world as well....

A Rovers match to them means more than a Rangers match of Glasgow to scottish league fans. Your point being? The scottish league is hardly top class either!

The fact that the scottish league is defined by just two members really shows how limited it is.

dreamers75

losthorizon wrote: »

Shamrock Rovers have fans all over the world as well....

A Rovers match to them means more than a Rangers match of Glasgow to scottish league fans. Your point being? The scottish league is hardly top class either!

The fact that the scottish league is defined by just two members really shows how limited it is.

When Rovers eventually play Linfield we will have our day of destruction and then we be finallly recognised as a good league cos we got religous hatred :cool: It works for the Spl no way it cant fail over here.

monkey9

dreamers75 wrote: »

When Rovers eventually play Linfield we will have our day of destruction and then we be finallly recognised as a good league cos we got religous hatred :cool: It works for the Spl no way it cant fail over here.

That's it Dreamers!! Tell that Buddhist c*nt what's not!! :cool: