How much should I deduct from the tenant deposit?

gillybean

Hi there
My tenant is moving out and I went to see the house yesterday and it is not in good repair.
Her children have scribbled on the walls and doors in 3 rooms and the landing.
The kitchen chair cushions are in a very bad state. They are material and attached to the chairs.
There are handles missing from the kitchen presses and a wardrobe.
There is a lamp missing.
A drawer is broken in a chest of drawers.
Roughly how much should I deduct from the total deposit of 1000?

Jo King

Give it all back. It was like that when she moved in. Anyway you don't have photographs agreed with her before she moved in and you don't have receipts for the items and the cost of the repairs and replacements. You probably owe her money for loss of amenity for having to live in such a kip and ignoring her heartfelt emails which you say you never got, but she says she sent them to do something about it.

gillybean

I have photos taken on the day the property was handed over and from each inspection. All show clearly the items were in good repair when she moved in.

lendmeyourear

gillybean wrote: »

Hi there
My tenant is moving out and I went to see the house yesterday and it is not in good repair.
Her children have scribbled on the walls and doors in 3 rooms and the landing.
The kitchen chair cushions are in a very bad state. They are material and attached to the chairs.
There are handles missing from the kitchen presses and a wardrobe.
There is a lamp missing.
A drawer is broken in a chest of drawers.
Roughly how much should I deduct from the total deposit of 1000?

A number of points come to mind...
How long has your tenant been there... you did understand that children would be children in your house...
Why is it a surprise to now discover the state of the house, were you not regularly visiting...very important to show interest during the tenancy..
There has to be reasonable wear and tear and the chances are that in this new economic climate where tenants can get very good deals, you would have to repaint and bring the place back to a high spec if you wish to relet it. I assume also that you had a contract stamped by the PRTB. It would serve you well to discuss the matter with your tenant and I hope you had an inventory of all the items in your apartment.

When reletting, Aldi and Lidl regularly have chair cushions. It is a very bad idea to have fixed material cushions on chairs for letting. You would want to re-think what you have in your house when letting it and be prepared to throw out quite a lot after each letting.

I have been there, done that for years and years and generally it is less wearisome if you just hand back the deposit especially if the tenant paid her rent each month.

ztoical

Jo King wrote: »

Give it all back. It was like that when she moved in. Anyway you don't have photographs agreed with her before she moved in and you don't have receipts for the items and the cost of the repairs and replacements. You probably owe her money for loss of amenity for having to live in such a kip and ignoring her heartfelt emails which you say you never got, but she says she sent them to do something about it.

did I miss a post or something?

lendmeyourear

gillybean wrote: »

I have photos taken on the day the property was handed over and from each inspection. All show clearly the items were in good repair when she moved in.

Gillybean

I note what you say....it largely comes down to how long she was there and your contract....I feel you would have had to repaint and do minor repair work anyway, and the items you mention are not hugely expensive, the deposit is probably of huge import to your tenant and ask yourself, are you in form to argue over two hundred euro. It would be useful to say to your tenant that you have seen all these things and you expect that in order for her to get her full deposit back you expect her to make good most of what you have seen, in that way, you might claw back on some of the damage.

pooch90

ztoical wrote: »

did I miss a post or something?

Was wondering the same thing!

nessie911

Jo King wrote: »

Give it all back. It was like that when she moved in. Anyway you don't have photographs agreed with her before she moved in and you don't have receipts for the items and the cost of the repairs and replacements. You probably owe her money for loss of amenity for having to live in such a kip and ignoring her heartfelt emails which you say you never got, but she says she sent them to do something about it.

What are you on about emails etc, did i miss something.

You should get prices to cover the damage done, to chairs etc. How long has she been living there? If more than a year I would not charge for the re painting, because houses do need to be repainted on a regular basis.

gillybean

The house was mine so all furniture left was mine to begin with hence I did not buy new for my tenant. She has been there just under 2 years and until recently I had a letting company manage the property. On their last inspection none of this was reported or in photos. I do not see what children have to do with it. Mine don't scibble on walls so I don't expect someone else's too. The house does need to re painting so I wasn't planning to deduct that but something for the damage. I am registered with the PRTB.
I think we all missed JoKing's point!

cgarrad

At least half.

CK2010

i think joKings point MAY have been that this will be the tennants argument and that its not worth the hassle cause his post just outlined what she'll say to you... maybe im wrong though :pac:

tbh i think you should give their deposit back in full. its general wear and tear that comes hand in hand with some kids. they'll more than likely be counting on it for a deposit for the next place. unless there is loads of damage to essentials in the house then i personally wouldnt charge them. maybe deduct the cost of the lamp?? but no more than that.

lendmeyourear

gillybean wrote: »

The house was mine so all furniture left was mine to begin with hence I did not buy new for my tenant. She has been there just under 2 years and until recently I had a letting company manage the property. On their last inspection none of this was reported or in photos. I do not see what children have to do with it. Mine don't scibble on walls so I don't expect someone else's too. The house does need to re painting so I wasn't planning to deduct that but something for the damage. I am registered with the PRTB.
I think we all missed JoKing's point!

Letting Companies do not love your property the same way that you might.. Two years is a good tenancy and if she paid her rent as per your agreement, these days you are fortunate. It is important to point out to her the damage as you see it, as you said yourself you will have it repainted so the scribbling is no longer an issue... give her the opportunity to make good on some of the items you mention, its all about compromise. I have seen houses trashed.... and it has gone to the stage that minor material damage would be a relief. I do not mean of course to minimise your losses...There are few perfect tenants and less perfect landlords, I always try to bear that in mind

verywell

Ignore the cost of the scribbling as you would most likely have to paint/clean before new tenants move in and that is not deductible from the deposit anyway. I would consider deducting money for the kitchen presses as that is not normal wear and tear.

You know in your heart what your property was like when they moved in. So if you know that all was in order then deduct what is necessary.

Otherwise, give it all back.

echosound

To replace the missing lamp - you'll pick up a lamp for 10 euro or so.

Missing handles from press and wardrobe - you'll pick these up for a max of 4 euro each if you go for bog standard knobs.

The drawer that's broken in the chest - how sturdy is the press, is it one of those cheap and cheerful ones which have thin cardboard-like bases? Is it that which is broken? They tend to break very easily TBH.
A whole new chest of drawers can be got for under 50 euro.

Kitchen chairs - get tie-on seat cushions for them. Can be got for around 4 euro each.

Scribbles on walls - you'd be needing to repaint anyway after 2 years, so no extra cost to you there.

So add up the above, and see what it comes to.
10 for lamp, plus lets say 6 new handles for presses is 24, plus 4 cushions is 16, plus an entire new chest of drawers if needed at 50, so that's 100 euro max that you need to spend.


Door handles on presses seem to be badly fixed in a lot of houses, and fall off easily, or unscrew over time. Chair cushion-covers would need to be refreshed after each tenancy. The lamp is easily picked up for the 10 euro, or do you really need to provide a lamp in a rented property at all? And if the press is one of those cheap and cheerful jobs that was originally a flat-pack job, they fall apart over time with normal use.


TBH all of the things you've mentioned as needing repair, I would just replace myself rather than have the hassle of withholding 100 euro to fix items as small as that. Or perhaps tell the tenant that she must replace the lamp, door handles, and get cushion covers for the chairs. And fix up the drawer or replace it.

BostonB

Assuming the scribbling can be cleaned off and painted over then I'd ignore it. If its scratched in, thats a different thing entirely. Most handles can be replaced easily and cheaply. Recovering chairs shouldn't be too expensive either. Some wear and tear is to be expected.

the_syco

gillybean wrote: »

Roughly how much should I deduct from the total deposit of 1000?

gillybean wrote: »

I have photos taken on the day the property was handed over and from each inspection. All show clearly the items were in good repair when she moved in.

Fix the place up, give her a copy of the receipt for the items that you had to buy to fix the damage, and give her back the rest.

Jo King wrote: »

Give it all back.

I honestly have no f**king idea what this poster is on about. Sounds like a past landlord may have shat on their car.

Xiney

the_syco wrote: »

Fix the place up, give her a copy of the receipt for the items that you had to buy to fix the damage, and give her back the rest.

This.

astrofool

Why are people here getting all caught up and emotional about this?

You're running a business.

Charge her whatever damage was caused above normal wear and tear.

i.e.

Her children have scribbled on the walls and doors in 3 rooms and the landing. -> Walls likely needed repainted anyway. Doors would be above normal wear and tear, charge her.

The kitchen chair cushions are in a very bad state. They are material and attached to the chairs. -> Probably not the best idea to have a couch with integrated cushions in a rental, they're always likely to take a lot of damage

There are handles missing from the kitchen presses and a wardrobe. -> above wear and tear, should be fixed, deduct

There is a lamp missing. -> what did the lamp cost? deduct this

A drawer is broken in a chest of drawers. -> badly broken? Was it expensive or cheap, may be wear and tear.

Blackjack

Jo King wrote: »

Give it all back. It was like that when she moved in. Anyway you don't have photographs agreed with her before she moved in and you don't have receipts for the items and the cost of the repairs and replacements. You probably owe her money for loss of amenity for having to live in such a kip and ignoring her heartfelt emails which you say you never got, but she says she sent them to do something about it.

I think the notable Sarcasm in the above has been missed by many.

D3PO

gillybean wrote: »

Hi there
My tenant is moving out and I went to see the house yesterday and it is not in good repair.
Her children have scribbled on the walls and doors in 3 rooms and the landing.
The kitchen chair cushions are in a very bad state. They are material and attached to the chairs.
There are handles missing from the kitchen presses and a wardrobe.
There is a lamp missing.
A drawer is broken in a chest of drawers.
Roughly how much should I deduct from the total deposit of 1000?

What kind of stupid question is this ? There is no such thing as roughly how much do I duduct.

Its a freaking exact science. You deduct what it costs to repair or replace the items not a cent more not a cent less and you provide all the reciepts to the tennant.

Seriously there are too many landlords out there that havent a clue what they are doing

gillybean

D3PO wrote: »

What kind of stupid question is this ? There is no such thing as roughly how much do I duduct.

Its a freaking exact science. You deduct what it costs to repair or replace the items not a cent more not a cent less and you provide all the reciepts to the tennant.

Seriously there are too many landlords out there that havent a clue what they are doing

I'm very sorry if I come across as though I don't know what I'm doing but this is the first time I have had a tenant leave where there was a question over the deposit. I don't want to mess her about by deducting more than a reasonable amount for damaged items. Eg the lamp cost 50 euro but I'm not planning on charging her the full amount for it.
I'm a new user to boards and I have to say there are some lovely people out there but there are a lot of very rude ones!

wyndham

€203.47

axer

gillybean wrote: »

I'm very sorry if I come across as though I don't know what I'm doing but this is the first time I have had a tenant leave where there was a question over the deposit. I don't want to mess her about by deducting more than a reasonable amount for damaged items. Eg the lamp cost 50 euro but I'm not planning on charging her the full amount for it.
I'm a new user to boards and I have to say there are some lovely people out there but there are a lot of very rude ones!

Look at the over all cost of making things as they were when the tenants moved in minus reasonable wear and tear. This includes if the lamp was 2 years old then look at its depreciation value and charge the difference. Don't let the tenannt away with anything but also be fair in what you charge.

gibo_ie

Xiney wrote: »

This.

As Xiney said, this is the best way, its honest and open. I am a landlord and usually give my tenants the option to repair/replace anything before they move out that is beyond normal wear and tear.
If they refuse, i will buy the same standard as was there and charge them a small fee for my time taken to get these things, like 2 hours at 10 per hour - depending on where i need to go and get the parts and how long it takes to replace/repair them.

Most tenants will be happy to get the things themselves.

As for scribbling on doors and walls, however not nice this was it is normal wear and tear, those "magic scrubber block" things you can get in atlantic and places like that are brilliant and get most of this stuff off in a few mins. You cant charge for repainting unless they do something like pour paint on the walls or bust holes in the plasterboard (then you can charge for repair and repaint of the room).

You should also hold the deposit for no more than 7 days after they leave until you have a chance to do a full and proper inspection of the whole house, e.g. under sofa cushions, in the attic, under beds etc.. You will be suprised at what damage people try to hide with pictures on the walls and floor mats!!

At least fair play to you for asking!!
Good Luck,

the_syco

gillybean wrote: »

Eg the lamp cost 50 euro but I'm not planning on charging her the full amount for it.

Why not? They broke it. Unless you can get it cheaper, they broke it.

gibo_ie wrote: »

You will be suprised at what damage people try to hide with pictures on the walls and floor mats!!

Having lived in a few student houses, a lot of damage can be hidden by pictures, and moving about furniture.

axer

gibo_ie wrote: »

As for scribbling on doors and walls, however not nice this was it is normal wear and tear

I wouldn't consider scribbling on doors and walls as normal wear and tear.

ZYX

the_syco wrote: »

Why not? They broke it. Unless you can get it cheaper, they broke it.

.

However they didn't break a new lamp. They broke one at least 2 years old.

astrofool

ZYX wrote: »

However they didn't break a new lamp. They broke one at least 2 years old.

And if it was 100 years old, and an antique?

You charge the replacement cost of the item, not lamp - 2 years depreciation. If they break a 30" TV, they have to replace it with a 30" TV, not a 24" TV because that's what the 30" TV is worth after 2 years.

Second hand furniture is almost worthless as soon as it's been bought.

axer

astrofool wrote: »

And if it was 100 years old, and an antique?

Then the landlord would have been a fool to leave it there.

astrofool wrote: »

You charge the replacement cost of the item, not lamp - 2 years depreciation. If they break a 30" TV, they have to replace it with a 30" TV, not a 24" TV because that's what the 30" TV is worth after 2 years.

Says who? Replacing with a second hand TV would be acceptable as long as it is in the same condition as the previous TV. Are you suggesting that a 4 year old TV should be replaced with a brand new TV?

ZYX

astrofool wrote: »

And if it was 100 years old, and an antique?

You charge the replacement cost of the item, not lamp - 2 years depreciation. If they break a 30" TV, they have to replace it with a 30" TV, not a 24" TV because that's what the 30" TV is worth after 2 years.

Second hand furniture is almost worthless as soon as it's been bought.

However if person bought a lamp for €100, they declare the depreciation against tax so they now have a lamp officially valued at €70. Why should the tenant be expected to pay €100 for a lamp valued at €70? Why should the landlord effectively get 2 years use of a lamp for free and have charged the tenant for the rent of the lamp for this period? If the tenant broke a 20 year old lamp do you feel they should pay the "new" price? Is the landlord allowed the previous 20 years use of the lamp and tax deductions and rental income for free?

The tenant broke a 2 year old lamp (at least 2 years old). They should pay for the equivalent replacement i.e. the cost of replacing a 2 year old lamp.

astrofool

ZYX wrote: »

However if person bought a lamp for €100, they declare the depreciation against tax so they now have a lamp officially valued at €70. Why should the tenant be expected to pay €100 for a lamp valued at €70? Why should the landlord effectively get 2 years use of a lamp for free and have charged the tenant for the rent of the lamp for this period? If the tenant broke a 20 year old lamp do you feel they should pay the "new" price? Is the landlord allowed the previous 20 years use of the lamp and tax deductions and rental income for free?

The tenant broke a 2 year old lamp (at least 2 years old). They should pay for the equivalent replacement i.e. the cost of replacing a 2 year old lamp.

And where does one get a 2 year old lamp? Dunnes, Penneys, House of Fraser? You pay replacement cost, not original cost minus depreciation.