No Junk Mail

iMax

We have a NJM sticker on the letterbox, red typeface on white background & you have to physically lift it to put any post in.

7.30ish tonight, the dog starts barking & I hear something being stuffed through the letterbox so I go out to see what it is & there's Avril Power's (FF) face staring up at me from the mat, which admittedly is not the worst thing to be looking at.

So I grabbed it & opened the door & there was someone putting a leaflet into next door's letter box (who also have NJM on it). I called over to them (politely) & they came over & I pointed out to them that I have explicitly stated I don't want to receive any junk mail & in particular in this instance, anything from FF. The person couldn't be more obliging in taking it back.

I suggest this to everyone who objects to FF. Make it known when you can that you don't want them.

Yawns

I think you would have been justified in setting your dog upon the person OP.

Killer Pigeon

I think it's complete objective whether you view political leaflets as junk mail or not.

In my opinion though I don't view political leaflets as junk mail. I am canvassing for another political party this year (not FF) and I post political leaflets to people regardless of whether they say "No Junk Mail" or not.

Some of the candidates who send you out leaflets will become TDs after the General Election and will impact on local issues and indeed national issues which well inevitably have some impact on you.

People need to be informed about what each candidate stands for and it is up to you, if you intend on voting, to make that informed decision. Political leaflets help make that important decision, in a way.

Canvassers often don't view political leaflets/ manifestos as junk mail. If you don't want to receive them you should be more specific and have a sign on your door saying, "NO POLITICAL MANIFESTOS".

mikemac

Every candidate reckons their leaflets are important, well they paid to get them printed so they don't consider them junk mail

Add another sticker on your mailbox about these leaflets and they should stop

Yawns

ah sure the people who run the Alive paper think that's important, can they shove that through a postbox with no junk mail. What about the clothing for charity appeals/scams. Those people view them as inportant, why not shove it in there regardless of signage.

How about this for a thought for you when out and about canvassing. If it's not addressed for someone leaving in the house, then it's junk. Also "The Resident" also counts as junk. If it were addressed with my name then I'd go to the hassle of lookign at it and considering it. if it's not addressed, it's Junk mail. You can wipe your ass with them for all I care what printed on them.

Killer Pigeon

Yawns wrote: »

ah sure the people who run the Alive paper think that's important, can they shove that through a postbox with no junk mail. What about the clothing for charity appeals/scams. Those people view them as inportant, why not shove it in there regardless of signage.

How about this for a thought for you when out and about canvassing. If it's not addressed for someone leaving in the house, then it's junk. Also "The Resident" also counts as junk. If it were addressed with my name then I'd go to the hassle of looking at it and considering it. if it's not addressed, it's Junk mail. You can wipe your ass with them for all I care what printed on them.

The opinions on the Alive newspaper don't effect you in your everyday life.
The charity appeals don't exactly effect you in your everyday life.
A leaflet advertising a sale in a local supermarket doesn't effect you in your everyday life

But whoever represents you in Dáil Éireann will effect you and your community, both nationally and locally, in some way.

Yawns

No thanks, I don't need 3 of every leaflet crammed in my letter box thank you very much. I can purchase a newspaper, research online or watch tv and I will get so much more information than what they can *claim to be going to do/change if they get elected, on a small piece of paper.

They all end up in my recycling bin without being looked at. I actually called the guy back the other day and told him to take it back. If he can't bother respecting my sign, I will take the leaflets, get a nice pile of the same 1, dump on the ground and call the litter warden.

I should not have to get another sign just to stop crap comign through my letterbox. End of.

Killer Pigeon

Yawns wrote: »

No thanks, I don't need 3 of every leaflet crammed in my letter box thank you very much. I can purchase a newspaper, research online or watch tv and I will get so much more information than what they can *claim to be going to do/change if they get elected, on a small piece of paper.

1. Not everyone is like you. Many people find leaflets useful, many don't. Many people find newspaper articles about the general election as useful, many don't. Many people find the political websites useful, many don't as they mightn't have the internet or they might be old or disabled and find it cumbersome to use. May people are used the traditional political leaflet, many aren't. The leaflets are purely there to help people identify their local candidates. As a canvasser I don't know exactly how you think, you might view it as Junk or you might not. It's quite objective. If you don't want any political leaflets put a sign on your door saying "NO ELECTION MATERIAL".
2. Each individual candidate will perform differently to another candidate if they get into office. Some may fulfill their election promises, some may not. Again if someone is registered to vote and wishes to vote then they will be decided which candidate they want to represent them. If you have already made your decision and are steadfast in your opinions, put a sign on your door saying "NO ELECTION MATERIAL".

Yawns wrote: »

I should not have to get another sign just to stop crap comign through my letterbox. End of.

Again not everyone thinks like you. Some people may have a "No Junk Mail" sign on their door but it might not be aimed at political leaflets at all, in fact the resident may actually want to read the political leaflet. I as a canvasser don't exactly know how you specifically feel about election material.

takun

I would define junk mail as unsolicited mail of a marketing nature distributed in large quantities. That would cover election literature.

There are two flaws in argument here as I see it:

People need to be informed about what each candidate stands for

According to their literature they all stand for honesty, integrity and a better deal for.... well, everyone. Election literature is not information, it's advertising. Nobody could possibly make any decision based on it, because if that's all you had to go on every candidate is a paragon of all virtues and absolutely deserving of your vote. Maybe you could pick on looks, but that's about it.

People do want to be informed, which is why newspaper readership, viewing figures for current affairs and news programmes and posting to forums such as this sees such an increase.

Some people may have a "No Junk Mail" sign on their door but it might not be aimed at political leaflets at all

You are correct. But it is not for you to make that call.


On the upside the leaflets, in common with a lot of junk mail, are generally printed on quite heavy shiny and decent quality paper, a type of paper which, when tightly rolled, makes excellent firelighters.

Duiske

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

A leaflet advertising a sale in a local supermarket doesn't effect you in your everyday life

They are a damn sight more useful to families suffering financiallly, than say a leaflet from a Fianna Fail or Green party candidate telling us how they are here to save the day !!

Killer Pigeon

takun wrote: »

According to their literature they all stand for honesty, integrity and a better deal for.... well, everyone.

Election literature is not information, it's advertising. Nobody could possibly make any decision based on it, because if that's all you had to go on every candidate is a paragon of all virtues and absolutely deserving of your vote. Maybe you could pick on looks, but that's about it.

Many leaflets outline some of their policies such as FG's and their "5 point plan". This information might well be a deciding factor for some constituents.

takun wrote: »

People do want to be informed, which is why newspaper readership, viewing figures for current affairs and news programmes and posting to forums such as this sees such an increase.

On the upside the leaflets, in common with a lot of junk mail, are generally printed on quite heavy shiny and decent quality paper, a type of paper which, when tightly rolled, makes excellent firelighters.

An Post doesn't regard Election Material as Junk Mail (as mentioned on another thread on the GE'11 forum) so I think I'm going to stick with that when I'm out canvassing. An election pamphlet, besides what you rightly as being a form of advertising, does inform people about who's running for election locally. I find that such information isn't as readily available to people on TV or in national newspapers.

Yawns

Have you not got lampposts or any sort of pole in your local area?

An post also deliver other crap with the post. Why? Because they get paid too, doesn't mean it's not junk.

Yawns

Anyway it seems your going to stick to your guns about your junk not being junl. I'll continue to call them back and demand they take their crap with them. Maybe next time they are out and about they might reconsider. Getting verbal abuse at doors with no junk signs might be the only way to make you stop...

Killer Pigeon

Yawns wrote: »

Anyway it seems your going to stick to your guns about your junk not being junl. I'll continue to call them back and demand they take their crap with them. Maybe next time they are out and about they might reconsider. Getting verbal abuse at doors with no junk signs might be the only way to make you stop...

In the time you made that phone call you could have gotten a pen and paper and written a note saying "NO ELECTION MATERIAL" and stuck it on your front door. Instead of getting all stressed and wasting time arguing with a canvasser at the front door about posting in you letterbox you could have got a pen and paper and wrote "NO ELECTION MATERIAL" and stuck it on your front door. It'll only take one minute. Canvassers are going to continue giving you political leaflets because they don't regard them as junk and you're telling me that you are going to continue to waste your own valuable time ringing them up and arguing with them at the front door. That's a bit Irish. You can make your point in an easier way and save yourself all that hassle.

Tail Wagger

Some years ago I called to a door, I was selling wall pictures at the time. when I got to the door there was a list of items written on a A4 sheet of paper in the poarch. It went something like this.
" No we don't want , our Grass cut, our car washed, windows cleaned, dog walked...etc there was about 10 items on it. I then rang the door bell and this guy came out looking like a Bear with a wasp in his mouth!

Oh good evening sir my name is... he put up his hand in a gesture to halt me from talking.. He said " did you not read the sign? I looked at him and looked at the sign, and turned back to him and said, " Sure it doesn't say anything about pictures been sold, at this stage he was hopping mad as he roared out" It will be on the list tomorrow" and slammed the door closed!

I walked away from his house smiling to myself! true story!

dtf

I was out leaflet dropping for FF on Saturday, in Dublin West and came accross a no junk mail sticker on a letter box. I walked past it not intending to do the drop but the householder actually came out and asked me for one.

Still though, my general rule is that election material is unsolicited material and therefore qualifies as junk mail.

Corsendonk

I have the NJM up, working so far. Only thing in the door was yesterday from a Labour mailout which they obviously got from my Union.

DeVore

If, as you say, I should be informed about the candidates.... just about the LAST people I trust to tell me the truth about them would be.... the candidates!

Leaflets are not addressed to me. They are junk.

DeV.

exspes

Simple as what Dev said. I love a person who can in the same 2 or 3 sentences tell me they need me to support them to run the country and then tell me what my opinion is. Then these same people tell me that they're going to 'do the best for the country' and 'get on the road to recovery' well i'm pretty sure that politicians not listening to anyones opinion and doing things to get themselves more money at any cost, not sure how doing the exact same thing under a different brand name constitutes a change.

If a party posts political leaflets when I have a no-junk mail sign up, they have guaranteed a lost vote. If they don't pay attention to my sign, they're hardly going to pay attention to me should they get in power.

Yawns

What if I just ignored you when you knocked. Would you still put it in my door? Lots of people are not answering doors to canvassers these days for fear they might just let abuse at them...

Yawns

Well it seems there's other threads and irish websites about people getting sorry we missed you leaflets through the letterbox while they're at home. More junk. I think people are refraining too much as to what to say to any canvasser at a door.

Time to unfollow this thread as I find you about as much fun as I'd find you at my doorstep.

DeVore

Your sense of importance an entitlement is sickeningly like what we have had for 12 years. Your opinion, you believe, is superior to others and over rides their view. (by your own admission you made up those statistics to support your point).


If you want to inform people about Labour policies explain them on a website and if I want them I'll take them. Ramming them down my throat is "mass marketing".

ie: junk.


You arent fooling anyone here.


DeV.

Tragedy

DeVore wrote: »

Your sense of importance an entitlement is sickeningly like what we have had for 12 years. Your opinion, you believe, is superior to others and over rides their view. (by your own admission you made up those statistics to support your point).


If you want to inform people about Labour policies explain them on a website and if I want them I'll take them. Ramming them down my throat is "mass marketing".

ie: junk.


You arent fooling anyone here.


DeV.

How is his attitude that he's right and knows better different to your attitude of being right and knowing better?
You're using even stronger language than he is to emphasise that what you say is the natural way of things.

If, as he says, An Post don't regard election material as junk mail - that's a fairly valid starting point for a belief that overall, it shouldn't be regarded as junk mail. If, further, he has had personal experience of people not regarding it as a junk mail, that further lends itself towards it being reasonable for him to regard it as not being junk mail when leaflet dropping.
All you have is your own personal opinion which you state as law for all.

Who's trying to fool who?

scheister

during this election i have been in a number of different areas for different candidites. the 1st thing i ask is the njm policy some belive that what there dropping is not junk and if the person comes out and complain just offer to take the leaflet back off them. While others belive that its not up to use to judge what you think jm is. On the other hand the places i have dropped leaflets in where houses have had njm sign im yet to have one person complain and they have come to the door when its dropped in

DeVore

Tragedy wrote: »

How is his attitude that he's right and knows better different to your attitude of being right and knowing better?
You're using even stronger language than he is to emphasise that what you say is the natural way of things.

If, as he says, An Post don't regard election material as junk mail - that's a fairly valid starting point for a belief that overall, it shouldn't be regarded as junk mail. If, further, he has had personal experience of people not regarding it as a junk mail, that further lends itself towards it being reasonable for him to regard it as not being junk mail when leaflet dropping.
All you have is your own personal opinion which you state as law for all.

Who's trying to fool who?

I'm not putting my opinion through your door against your wishes.

DeV.

Tragedy

DeVore wrote: »

I'm not putting my opinion through your door against your wishes.

DeV.

And? Has Killer Pigeon put leaflets through your door, or did you just get offended and holier than thou on everyone elses behalf, tell us all what we should be thinking and what our opinion should be while also insulting the poster?

bonkey

DeVore wrote: »

Your sense of importance ...
Your opinion, you believe ...

C'mon DeV. Play the ball and not the man.

Tragedy wrote:

or did you just get offended and holier than thou on everyone elses behalf, tell us all what we should be thinking and what our opinion should be while also insulting the poster?

Same applies to you, here, Tragedy. If you have an issue with a post, report it rather then responding to it.

DeVore

I have had them through my door with a GIANT njm put on it.

Also this is a discussion site. We are discussing this. Sorry if I come off as aggressive, I have no beef with KP and I applaud his involvement with the process. Fair dues for backing your beliefs but please understand that your opinion != truth as you are being told in you AH poll so far.

DeV.
ps: as ever, if I'm out of line, I rescind all admin and founder privilieges and will accept what sanction the Pol Mods agree on.... but I genuinely meant no personal abuse KP... at least you are out doing something.

DeVore

Thanks.


Can you see how your view is subjective here? I find ANYTHING written by ANY candidate to be questionable because of their incentive to tell people what they want to hear, consequently I rule out their writings as biased. Hence they have no value to me and are junk.

You started a poll in AH , presumeably had it been in support of you you would be brandishing it as proof that people agreed with your but last time I checked it was massively against your approach... do you accept now that people see it as junk?

DeV.

DeVore

its currently at 101 vs 13. Thats about 88% in favour of considering it junk mail.

Comment?

DeV.

Morag

If it's not addressed directly to me it's junk/spam.
If it's addressed directly to me but is a mass mailing of info I didn't ask for junk/spam.
I get a lot more info and in a format I want of the sites of the candidates and the ammount of leaflets/letters which are junk/spam/clutter is frankly poxy.
And there is no way to get off the mailing list you didnt sign up for.

Democracy...

...on boards...

...Hamster must have gone mad...

:eek:

CU-Cme

Sometimes for independents its harder because there isnt the same access to the media that the FF, FG, Labour and SF get.

Personally I've decided not to litter the area with Election Boards because they are a nuisance, impeding peoples walkway, blowing off and landing in gardens, and flying into cars.

I've also declined the offer of having a leaflet sent free of charge through the post to everyones mailbox - this is a complete waste of taxpayers money in a time when we need to save public spending waste.

My only recourse left available is to visit every door which I believe a politician should do if they want you to vote for them.

If I see 'No election mail' on the door I wont leave anything if you are not in. If anyone has those signs on the door and would like to see the policies that I stand for please go to www.liamjohnston.webs.com

Peace

Liam Johnston, Dublin Central, Independent for Fís Nua

WIne Gums

A canvasser from Sean Kenny TD deposited the usual rubbish in my letterbox this morning. There is a No Junk Mail sign on letterbox.
I returned the junk to the canvasser who said it was political literature, and I should contact Sean Kenny.
The canvasser left my garden gate open, and my grand daughter's little dog ran off.
Kenny is not even a TD for my area.