Branded Vs. Generic tyres?

Richard571

I have to get 4 new tyres for a VW touran and was wondering is there much difference between 'branded' tyres like Pirelli, Continental etc and non-branded (or 'economy'tyes).

As the family drive around in the car I wouldn't want to scimp on price if there is a safety impact but equally don't care about paying a premium for branded tyres if no real performance gain.

Any advice as to the difference and what type would be recommended would be appreciated.

Satanta

Speaking only from personal experience I would advise on getting decent tyres. I dont see the sense in having all the safety equiptment (ABS, ESP, ASR blah blah) and then put on tyres that will let you down in the wet. They are real important as they are what keeps your car in contact with the road.

I tried a set of crapy tyres before because I didnt think they would make that much of a difference. The car was a balls in the wet. I try to stick to something decent now. I think Bridgestone was the last set I bought.

dingding

I think I read before that the tyres have to be rated to the max speed of the car.

The cheaper tyres might not make this rating.

Can anyone else confirm.

Bigcheeze

Cheap tyres will make the speed rating alright but I'd advise getting something reasonable like bridgestones. Cheap tyres tend not to be so good in the wet and often youll never get them balanced properly and have shudder at speed. Don't really need to go for pirellis.

The Bishop Basher

Tried cheap unbranded tyres once thinking they would all be tested to a similar standard. Never again. They were rubbish and I had many a wibble on wet roundabouts before changing them. Pay the money and buy known brands.

CiniO

It's not as simple as that.

F.e I got once a set of cheap Chinese tyres Infinity 050.
To be honest I expected they won't be great, but what they were exceeeded any expectations. They were absolutlely ****e. No grip on wet at all.
They were 45 euros per tyre.

Obviously I could bye Pirelli, Michelin, Goodyear, etc... for 80 - 100 euros. They are great.
But on the other hand, for just couple of extra euros (about 50 per tyre) i can get Debica Furio, which are made in Polish factory on the same production line as Goodyear tyres. I had plenty of them in different cars, and they provide almost the same qualisty as goodyear.

So what's the point in here to pay for goodyear.

Only trouble here, is to know which tyre to buy.

But remember - price not always shows the quality of the tyre,.

paddydriver

OP - I have same quandary at the moment and have to replace 4 x 18's on our S-Max. I have priced around and had everything from €100 a corner to €280 a corner for the same again Michelin Primacy.

I may get flamed here but the Michelin's have done 20k miles and are still legal and Thankfully have served me, my wife and 3 young kids well - so guess what one's I am going for again? Yes, the most expensive and the one's I trust.

They were sh1te in snow but guess can't have it all ways. May consider having a cheap set of 16" steels with snow tyres on them ready to go but will see what kind of prices are available during the year.

Paddy

Bigcheeze

You only got 20 thousand miles out of them ?

Esel

paddydriver wrote: »

OP - I have same quandary at the moment and have to replace 4 x 18's on our S-Max. I have priced around and had everything from €100 a corner to €280 a corner for the same again Michelin Primacy.

I may get flamed here but the Michelin's have done 20k miles and are still legal and Thankfully have served me, my wife and 3 young kids well - so guess what one's I am going for again? Yes, the most expensive and the one's I trust.

There's a lot to be said for replacing the original tyres with the 'same again', as long as you were happy with them. Imo, the manufacturer didn't just shop around and slap whatever tyres they found on the car when it was leaving the factory. They researched, tested, liaised with manufacturers, tested again etc. etc. - then they decided what tyres to use.

If I was in your position, OP, this is the way I would be thinking.

p.s. paddydriver, take at look at the Hankook Ventus Prime. I have a pair on the back of my yoke, and when I was researching them I read they are basically the same as the Michelin Primacy Pilot. Good reviews. I'm happy with them anyway. OE on a good few marques too.

Tragedy

CiniO wrote: »

It's not as simple as that.

F.e I got once a set of cheap Chinese tyres Infinity 050.
To be honest I expected they won't be great, but what they were exceeeded any expectations. They were absolutlely ****e. No grip on wet at all.
They were 45 euros per tyre.

Obviously I could bye Pirelli, Michelin, Goodyear, etc... for 80 - 100 euros. They are great.
But on the other hand, for just couple of extra euros (about 50 per tyre) i can get Debica Furio, which are made in Polish factory on the same production line as Goodyear tyres. I had plenty of them in different cars, and they provide almost the same qualisty as goodyear.

So what's the point in here to pay for goodyear.

Only trouble here, is to know which tyre to buy.

But remember - price not always shows the quality of the tyre,.

It doesn't matter what production line they're made on, thread pattern, sidewall, compound etc matter. You could make the crappest tyres in the same factory as the Bridgestone Potenzas they use on the Merc SLS, it's immaterial where they're made.

Also, quality is ephermal and immaterial. Firestone or Hankook are the same quality as bridgestone(despite being budget and midrange tyres), what differs is compound and thread.

paddydriver

Bigcheeze wrote: »

You only got 20 thousand miles out of them ?

They're not done yet:D

Probably around 22.5k miles now actually and on the service recently they had them at about 2.5mm whereas I recall limit being 1.8mm or something along those lines.

Service garage (A Ford one) tried selling me same again at €380 (Ex VAT) a corner... I said No Thanks. Was one lady there in front of me paying them for 2 tyres fitted during the service; felt sorry for her.

Eoin

Tragedy wrote: »

It doesn't matter what production line they're made on, thread pattern, sidewall, compound etc matter. You could make the crappest tyres in the same factory as the Bridgestone Potenzas they use on the Merc SLS, it's immaterial where they're made.

Also, quality is ephermal and immaterial. Firestone or Hankook are the same quality as bridgestone(despite being budget and midrange tyres), what differs is compound and thread.

But I think he does have a point that there are some very good "middle of the range" tires that will do just fine.

paddydriver

Esel wrote: »

p.s. paddydriver, take at look at the Hankook Ventus Prime. I have a pair on the back of my yoke, and when I was researching them I read they are basically the same as the Michelin Primacy Pilot. Good reviews. I'm happy with them anyway. OE on a good few marques too.

I had a long chat with Dave McCann (well known tyre guy in Coolmine) and he insisted I had a good read up on the Hankook's too but TBH I weighed up all the differing reviews and swayed back towards Michelin's - he admitted they were great tyre's but were just very expensive.

Just waiting to round up some cash and will likely go same again.

Thanks all the same.
Paddy

Tragedy

Of course, I'd always argue that people should go middle range(Falken etc), but his points on quality and where the tyre was made were invalid.

bladebrew

paddydriver wrote: »

They're not done yet:D


Service garage (A Ford one) tried selling me same again at €380 (Ex VAT) a corner... I said No Thanks. Was one lady there in front of me paying them for 2 tyres fitted during the service; felt sorry for her.

is that €380 per tyre:eek:, on a s-max? did i read that right, a guy my dad plays golf with mentioned getting a tyre for an m6 afaik that was €330,

kirving

I know just posting a link is lazy, but it's interesting all the same.


http://www.gizmag.com/wet-weather-braking-tests-show-budget-tires-dont-pay/10850/

Shod with the Linglongs, the VW Golf Autocar used for its tests was still doing 27.8mph at the point where it had stopped on the Continentals.

:eek:


And what ever you do, don't put the Linglongs on a Brilliance BS6...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4WdMvmml6c

Actually, just don't get into one of them at all!

Seriously though, decent tires really won't cost you a much more than the cheapest of the cheap.

Linglong and Triangle and that sort of stuff are utter sh1t. The Hankooks mentioned are good, they were OE on the 2005 Mondeo I had, decent tires. Semperit, Kumho, Falken and Firestone are all worth tracking down too. All very decent and not as expensive as the premium brands.

Tragedy

If you ever need to replace the tyres on your ZT, I've heard really really good things about the Falken FK452 on both mgr.org and the 75 and ZT club.

MASTER...of the bra

Hankook Ultimos, got a set of these before xmas, went through all the bad weather and never had a slide and that's on alot of back roads.

€65 each for 195/65 R15 in a local Volkswagen garage.

Got 26,000 miles out of the Michelins (Is that a record?) that I was replacing, but there now €95 each.

Esel

paddydriver wrote: »

I had a long chat with Dave McCann (well known tyre guy in Coolmine) and he insisted I had a good read up on the Hankook's too...

Good to know that Dave rates them!

Tragedy

Tragedy wrote: »

If you ever need to replace the tyres on your ZT, I've heard really really good things about the Falken FK452 on both mgr.org and the 75 and ZT club.

Yeah, had planned on getting a full set of them but had to order them, noticed damaged sidewalls on a Friday afternoon on both my front tires so had tires there and then really. €150 each for the Falken I think in 225 45 18s.

Fizman

I'm in need of two rear tyres for the GTI as of right now so I'm thinking of ordering two more Falken FK452s from Camskill to match with the same two I put on the front this time last year. They don't ever seem to have Vredesteins in stock anymore which is annoying. The Uniroyal Rainsports have gotten very good reviews too.

I site I wonder onto every now and then and is very useful:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/

Divorce Referendum

Fizman wrote: »

I'm in need of two rear tyres for the GTI as of right now so I'm thinking of ordering two more Falken FK452s from Camskill to match with the same two I put on the front this time last year. They don't ever seem to have Vredesteins in stock anymore which is annoying. The Uniroyal Rainsports have gotten very good reviews too.

I site I wonder onto every now and then and is very useful:
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/

One warning about uniroyal. I had a set of these before and I was very impressed how they handled in the wet, however the sidewall if very soft in these tyres for our roads i.e. pothole laden dirt tracks.

--Kaiser--

Do not skimp on tyres. They are the only part of your car in contact with the road. End of

Paparazzo

Amazing that some people buy cars based on a high ncap rating, but then fit cheap tyres.

RobAMerc

I normally would say don't skimp on tyres too but I bought a set of Kuhmo ( KU31's I think ) based on recommendations and I was well impressed with them. I didn't have the car long but I liked what I got for the money. About 70 squid each I think.

Eoin

RobAMerc wrote: »

I normally would say don't skimp on tyres too but I bought a set of Kuhmo ( KU31's I think ) based on recommendations and I was well impressed with them. I didn't have the car long but I liked what I got for the money. About 70 squid each I think.

I've the same ones on my car (and my previous 2 as well) and find them pretty good as well. I think they were about €40 less per tyre than the big name brands. I don't think they're really considered a budget brand, but I think they're a good example of not having to pay top dollar for a decent tyre. I think I paid a little more though for them (235/45/17).

Fey!

Tragedy wrote: »

If you ever need to replace the tyres on your ZT, I've heard really really good things about the Falken FK452 on both mgr.org and the 75 and ZT club.

I'm a huge fan of Falkens, and have had them fitted to various cars. I've never had a problem with them.

We had Dunlops fitted to Mrs Feys Freelander. We paid around €90 per tyre, but we had huge vibration problems. It turned out that the ones we got had no E mark, and the supplying fitter hadn't noticed.

We eventually got the replaced with Bridgestones, and the vibration disappeared!

Moral of the story; even with branded tyres you can have the odd difficulty.

I still wouldn't go with a cheap tyre; €30 - €40 a corner might sound like a lot, but it's cheaper than a crash or a hospital stay.

Tea 1000

I never liked Michellen, always a hard compound that the grip goes from long before the tyre is worn. And the fact that they're outrageously priced confirms to me that I won't test their newer ones either. Bridgestone Turanza's or Potenza's are about as good as you'll get really for all round grip in wet and dry, reasonable life span, low enough noise and good water displacement without going for some of the performance tyres. Depending on size, they're not always that much dearer than others.
Also it's worth remembering that different tyre brands and types perform differently as the size of the tyre changes. Autocar's test confirmed this, with one brand doing well on a Golf, where as the same brand not quite as well on a BMW with 18" on it.
All in all though, I'd go primarily for Bridgestone if picking, however I'd be happy to go with Continental, Hankook, Good Year, Dunlop, Pirelli, and also I've found Firestone to be quite good, and Kumho's also are not bad. Falken I haven't tried, but got good reports from people in the know from these.

Nissan doctor

There are European laws regarding tyres and spec which there is no government or independent body in Ireland which implements them. The vast majority of the cheapest of the cheap Chinese tyres are being imported into Ireland have only had an 'e' mark added to their mold, they have not been euro tested or approved but because the majority of Irish motorists are not interested in correct car maintenance they are a big seller.

It is also illegal to have a tyre of a lower speed rating then the manufacturer specified(speed rating isn't just about how fast your car can go), its illegal to have different brand/spec of tyres on the same axle, as is having tyres that are over 5 years old on your car. But again, these European laws are simply not policed here and the Irish tyre journal recons that a huge % of the crashes in Ireland that are put down to speed etc would still have been avoided if the car had safe/legal/quality tyres fitted.

Its only in emergency situations where you need your tyres to perform their best, and its exactly then that a cheap untested tyre will not perform.

Tea 1000

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Its only in emergency situations where you need your tyres to perform their best, and its exactly then that a cheap untested tyre will not perform.

That's exactly it. I've had cheap tyres on a car that I bought, changed soon afterwards, but I know how bad they can be. Also the legal limit of 1.6mm is a pure joke. Only performance tyres I reckon would still be any good at that limit. I don't think I've ever gone below 2mm on mine, even good tyres, while still fairly grippy at that, still can't give that extra bit in an emergency situation.
They only have to do their job once in order to justify the small price increase.

Nissan doctor

Tea 1000 wrote: »

That's exactly it. I've had cheap tyres on a car that I bought, changed soon afterwards, but I know how bad they can be. Also the legal limit of 1.6mm is a pure joke. Only performance tyres I reckon would still be any good at that limit. I don't think I've ever gone below 2mm on mine, even good tyres, while still fairly grippy at that, still can't give that extra bit in an emergency situation.
They only have to do their job once in order to justify the small price increase.

1.6mm is the legal limit, 3.0mm is the recognised(in the rest of europe anyway) safety limit. Once a tyre goes below 3.0mm it has lost 80% of its extreme condition performance.

paddydriver

bladebrew wrote: »

is that €380 per tyre:eek:, on a s-max? did i read that right, a guy my dad plays golf with mentioned getting a tyre for an m6 afaik that was €330,

Yes, that was the dealer price though... so heavily marked up. Average price to replace the existing Michelin Primacy HP's are €280ish. Going to NI etc does not save a whole lot.

Gallus

Nissan doctor wrote: »

There are European laws regarding tyres and spec which there is no government or independent body in Ireland which implements them. The vast majority of the cheapest of the cheap Chinese tyres are being imported into Ireland have only had an 'e' mark added to their mold, they have not been euro tested or approved but because the majority of Irish motorists are not interested in correct car maintenance they are a big seller.

It is also illegal to have a tyre of a lower speed rating then the manufacturer specified(speed rating isn't just about how fast your car can go), its illegal to have different brand/spec of tyres on the same axle, as is having tyres that are over 5 years old on your car. But again, these European laws are simply not policed here and the Irish tyre journal recons that a huge % of the crashes in Ireland that are put down to speed etc would still have been avoided if the car had safe/legal/quality tyres fitted.

Its only in emergency situations where you need your tyres to perform their best, and its exactly then that a cheap untested tyre will not perform.

one thing its not illegal to have two different brands on the same axle. As long as the spec matches its grand.

Nissan doctor

Gallus wrote: »

one thing its not illegal to have two different brands on the same axle. As long as the spec matches its grand.

It is according to European law. Like I said its not enforced here, by the garda or the NCTS or any government body.

It doesn't matter if both tyres are, for example, 205/55/16 V rated. If they are from different brands, they will have different thread compounds, different wear rating and different thread pattern amongst other differences and so will have different grip and road holding characteristics, leading to reduced handling and braking stability. This is even true of different tyre models from the same company.

Gallus

Never seen that law before. Known to keep mismathes away from driven wheels, but that seems a bit extreme. How do they account for part worns on one corner and a fresh tyre on the other.

Technoprisoner

if you had a cheap budget tyre and a good branded tyre side by side you could tell the difference straight away....the cheaper tyres tend to be made of a sort of harder plastic like rubber....and a good quality tyre feels like proper sticky rubber..you can see why the cheaper tyres last forever but try take a corner at speed or make a high speed maneuver to avoid a situation and you will defantely prefare to have the better quality tyre on the car

T-Maxx

For my everyday runabout I buy cheap. Hell, putting along in 2nd or 3rd gear doesn't justify anything expensive. €45 each, balanced and fitted.:cool:

Technoprisoner

T-Maxx wrote: »

For my everyday runabout I buy cheap. Hell, putting along in 2nd or 3rd gear doesn't justify anything expensive. €45 each, balanced and fitted.:cool:

not even on a runabout...i would rather buy some part worn branaded tyres if i was that stuck for money..seriously...2 things you do not skimp on and its tyres and brakes...these are the 2 things that can save your life or somebody elses

-Corkie-

I know I will get blasted for this but we have 2 passats. I put Vredstrein sessnatas on my wifes one as the tyres that came with it were sunnys and triangle.

The Vredstreins were 130 a pop while the sunnys were 65 euro each. Here is the part I cannot figure out. Both brands have done the same mileage and I have more rubber left on my cheap tyres.

I know people here say they are useless at handling and all that but I found no difference only double the price..

Eoin

-Corkie- wrote: »

Both brands have done the same mileage and I have more rubber left on my cheap tyres.

Could that not just mean that the compound on the cheap tyres is too hard and maybe not wearing enough?

Technoprisoner

-Corkie- wrote: »

I know I will get blasted for this but we have 2 passats. I put Vredstrein sessnatas on my wifes one as the tyres that came with it were sunnys and triangle.

The Vredstreins were 130 a pop while the sunnys were 65 euro each. Here is the part I cannot figure out. Both brands have done the same mileage and I have more rubber left on my cheap tyres.

I know people here say they are useless at handling and all that but I found no difference only double the price..

the reason they last longer is as i said above...they are made out of a harder rubber which is more like a hard plastic...if you had the 2 tyres side by side when they are new you would understand why...as for performance you would only every really notice the difference when it is vital...when a small child steps out in front of your car or when you have to make an emergency stop or turn suddenly to avoid an accident

-Corkie-

Technoprisoner wrote: »

the reason they last longer is as i said above...they are made out of a harder rubber which is more like a hard plastic...if you had the 2 tyres side by side when they are new you would understand why...as for performance you would only every really notice the difference when it is vital...when a small child steps out in front of your car or when you have to make an emergency stop or turn suddenly to avoid an accident

Thats correct I read that before. Now I would prefer to have the Vredstreins but the price difference is mad!!!

Nissan doctor

Gallus wrote: »

Never seen that law before. Known to keep mismathes away from driven wheels, but that seems a bit extreme. How do they account for part worns on one corner and a fresh tyre on the other.

The difference between a part worn(still over 3.0mm) tyre and a new tyre of the same brand and model is minimal as they both have the same compound, thread design and wear rating.



With regards to tyres wearing more quickly then others. This is largely effected by wheel alignment and tyre pressures but also the tested thread wear rating of the tyre, this is shown on the sidewall of the tyre(eu tested and approved tyres) A typical example would be a Bridgestone er300 tyre which has thread wear rating of 300 whereas a Bridgestone Potenza s001 has a rating of 150 which means it will wear twice as fast as the er300.

Technoprisoner

-Corkie- wrote: »

Thats correct I read that before. Now I would prefer to have the Vredstreins but the price difference is mad!!!

have you tried buying your tyres from www.camskill.co.uk ? they are very cheap and for 4 tyres delivered to dublin only cost £25 from what i can remember

Fizman

I went ahead and ordered two Falkens FK452s from Camskill last night. €172 delivered for 2 x 225/40/18. Not too bad at all. Hoping to have them by Friday.

For anyone interested in tyres with excellent rim protectors (large lip around the rim to protect alloys), the Bridgestone Potenzas are great. Makes a difference if kerbing has been an issue for you.

zilog_jones

Nissan doctor wrote: »

There are European laws regarding tyres and spec which there is no government or independent body in Ireland which implements them. The vast majority of the cheapest of the cheap Chinese tyres are being imported into Ireland have only had an 'e' mark added to their mold, they have not been euro tested or approved but because the majority of Irish motorists are not interested in correct car maintenance they are a big seller.

I'd be very surprised if these big far eastern companies were illegally stamping E-marks on their tyres, they wouldn't get away with it. The E-mark requires type approval from an authority in an ECE regulation member state (which actually includes several countries not in the ECE, i.e. it's not really a European thing any more). It's not like the CE mark, which can be "self-approved" and has therefore become pretty meaningless (any junk has a CE mark these days).

The problem is ECE R30 only really tests high speed performance and tyre dimensions, not any sort of general performance or braking performance. So as others have noted, they can use crappy hard compounds that will last at the speeds they're rated for, make the tyres in the shape they claim to be, get E-mark approval and not care too much about grip characteristics under normal driving or in emergency situations.

Some info here: http://www.toyo.com.au/TechInfoPDFs/TTT-189%20Tire%20Standards%20Test%20Method.pdf
Boring stuff (the actual regulations): http://www.etrma.org/public/activitiestyregun.asp

Tea 1000

-Corkie- wrote: »

I know I will get blasted for this but we have 2 passats. I put Vredstrein sessnatas on my wifes one as the tyres that came with it were sunnys and triangle.

The Vredstreins were 130 a pop while the sunnys were 65 euro each. Here is the part I cannot figure out. Both brands have done the same mileage and I have more rubber left on my cheap tyres.

I know people here say they are useless at handling and all that but I found no difference only double the price..

The Passat isn't a great car for providing feedback at the best of times, so normal driving mightn't reveal much, unless you have a bit more than average sensory awareness in terms of "listening" to the car.
However when pushed in any way the absolute muck Sunny's and even worse Triangles will leave you with a gaping look on your face at the difference!
Also, if you have 16" rims then you were ripped off for the Verdesteins!

Tea 1000

Tea 1000 wrote: »

However when pushed in any way the absolute muck Sunny's and even worse Triangles will leave you with a gaping look on your face at the difference!
Also, if you have 16" rims then you were ripped off for the Verdesteins!

In fairness I would reckon he has defo driven enthusiastically on them.

-Corkie-

Tea 1000 wrote: »

The Passat isn't a great car for providing feedback at the best of times, so normal driving mightn't reveal much, unless you have a bit more than average sensory awareness in terms of "listening" to the car.
However when pushed in any way the absolute muck Sunny's and even worse Triangles will leave you with a gaping look on your face at the difference!
Also, if you have 16" rims then you were ripped off for the Verdesteins!

No they are 17``. I got them of camskills. That included getting them on and all.

cpoh1

Fizman wrote: »

I went ahead and ordered two Falkens FK452s from Camskill last night. €172 delivered for 2 x 225/40/18. Not too bad at all. Hoping to have them by Friday.

For anyone interested in tyres with excellent rim protectors (large lip around the rim to protect alloys), the Bridgestone Potenzas are great. Makes a difference if kerbing has been an issue for you.

Falken fk452 are a decent eeryday tyre, im on my second set on the DC5. They last much longer than any of the potenzas ive had as well as the good years and sessantas. Not as grippy mind you but you wont notice on the road in everyday driving.