Ban on Fox Hunting

purity

Why on earth does it exist a bunch of idiots with nothing better to do killing for fun. I love animals and I think this sport is very distressing and inhuman. Fox hunting is terrible and the unfortunate fox is given a terrible death where it is torn apart by hounds tell me that is humane?

ISDW

Spunk84 wrote: »

The thread isnt about hunting with dogs? The thread was

If you read the whole thread, you would see that most of it is actually about hunting with dogs. Nevertheless, I apologise, and please re-read my post, but just take out the bit about with dogs - same point applies.

djflawless

Yes

an issue that will be around for many years to come.unfortunately ye agenst fox hunting dont see the harm and heartache they cause..look at things from a farmer/smallholders point of view and realise whats going on out there

Discodog

Spunk84 wrote: »

So tell me where does it stop?

Where foxes are no longer cruelly chased to the point of exhaustion. The old "if we ban hunting then x,y,z will be next" argument is just stupid. We don't apply the same principle to any other law.

Spunk84 wrote: »

how can you have opinion when you have never seen both sides of the story>?

So if we haven't starved we can't understand famine. It's a whole new approach to education if we have to experience everything first hand. The hunting lobby keep trying to censor opinion. It is always part of the argument that city folk or those that don't hunt cannot understand cruelty. We live in a democracy where everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Spunk84 wrote: »

Think about those two babies in England who where mulled by a fox, their lives will be strained now with their scares, imagine how other kids will look at them and tease them. This was caused by one fox, one fox!!! One pretty little fox

That fox must of been pretty clever to heat babies in a saucepan with herbs & spices before their lives were "strained" !.

In reality no one knows what really happened & the vast majority of people in the UK still support foxes.

homerhop

Yes

Where foxes are no longer cruelly chased to the point of exhaustion.

For a person who goes on to know so much about animals this statement shows how little you really know about foxes
A fox will be well aware of numerous earths within its range that it can reach safely without being "chased to the point of exhaustion". Why do you think hunts used to have terrier with them to follow up on the horses?

Discodog

homerhop wrote: »

For a person who goes on to know so much about animals this statement shows how little you really know about foxes
A fox will be well aware of numerous earths within its range that it can reach safely without being "chased to the point of exhaustion". Why do you think hunts used to have terrier with them to follow up on the horses?

But as you know foxes are killed by Hunts so clearly not every fox has a hide out ready.

mosi

homerhop wrote: »

For a person who goes on to know so much about animals this statement shows how little you really know about foxes
A fox will be well aware of numerous earths within its range that it can reach safely without being "chased to the point of exhaustion". Why do you think hunts used to have terrier with them to follow up on the horses?

Well that makes it all fine and dandy then, doesn't it? A fox manages to find sanctuary, maybe before reaching the point of exhaustion, only for the terriers to be sent in. Really sporting that.

homerhop

Yes

mosi wrote: »

Well that makes it all fine and dandy then, doesn't it? A fox manages to find sanctuary, maybe before reaching the point of exhaustion, only for the terriers to be sent in. Really sporting that.

Why do you think hunts used to have terrier with them to follow up on the horses?

gozunda

Yes

purity wrote: »

Why on earth does it exist a bunch of idiots with nothing better to do killing for fun. I love animals and I think this sport is very distressing and inhuman. Fox hunting is terrible and the unfortunate fox is given a terrible death where it is torn apart by hounds tell me that is humane?

Dear Purity your thoughts whilst possibly sincere are so biased and twisted that they really have no similarity to real life.

I am sure you do really love animals. However are you a vegetarian or do you eat meat? How many of the crops you consume are grown in areas in which agriculture has completly replaced local habitats, that have outed local wildlife. Being human we have to accept that everything we do has an effect on nature. Is it humane to eat other animals or to hunt to eat or protect livestock? Is it humane for humans to build cities and destroy the rural environment?

You may believe something is distressing for you - that does not mean that is actually the case. The fox has a quick death and does not crawl away to die which may happen when other methods of control are used. By the time "it is torn apart" the fox is dead. Just as the way a cow is cut up once it is killed in an abatoir - maybe not pretty but then a working countryside where crops are grown and livestock raised for human consumption is not necessarily pretty.

gozunda

Yes

Discodog wrote: »

Where foxes are no longer cruelly chased to the point of exhaustion. .

The above is completly incorrect. From someone who has actually been there, this is not how hunting is carried out. On the point of ad infinitum repetition of that which has been explanined in this thread before - foxes are not chased to the point of exhaustion. The average run is just over 15 minutes with most foxes making an easy escape by outrunning the hounds. Much of a hunt is spent travelling or navigating around obstacles. There are days when no foxes are hunted and there are days when no foxes are killed by hounds. Fox hunting ie the use of hounds and horses give foxes an obvious chance to hear and avoid the hunt as the fox can easily detect horses, hounds and humans from far away. It is one of the few hunting methods that actually gives the quary an excellent chance of escape. Go back and read some of the actual information provided by those who have attempted to provide a true picture of what hunting is about. Trotting out the same misinformation again and again does really nothing for this discusion

Discodog wrote: »

But as you know foxes are killed by Hunts so clearly not every fox has a hide out ready.

Once again do refer to the actual information provided in good faith by people who have been involved in hunting and not just made up videos on the interweb! Many foxes are not killed, fit and healthy foxes will outrun a hound pack.

mosi

homerhop wrote: »

Why do you think hunts used to have terrier with them to follow up on the horses?

Used to? What are you on about, terrier work still happens on foxhunts

homerhop

Yes

mosi wrote: »

Used to? What are you on about, terrier work still happens on foxhunts

and you can verify this by?????

silverfox88

bullylover wrote: »

Im not saying fox hunting is right or wrong, but i do beleive if they ban it there will be a lot of abandoned/ destroyed hounds and horses and not to mention a lot of people will lose their jobs. Farmers will lose income (hunts pay to go on their land). Instead of banning maybe try to incourage drag hunting or something like it. But banning it will cause a whole lot of welfare problems for the horses and hounds.
Once again I do not condone fox hunting just thinking of the bigger picture.

i can see your point but i think a move to encourage drag hunting would be a step in the right direction, without jeopardising the welfare of horses and hounds. im a horsey person myself and i cant understand how the fun part of the hunt can possibly be the destruction of another animal in such a brutal way? surely as a rider the fun is the gallop and the jumping and cameraderie, not the eventual death of a fox. drag hunting provides this chase and exhilaration without needing to kill an animal. i am aware of the argument that foxes are considered vermin or pests to farmers etc, but as someone said earlier on in this thread, a human cull of the animals rather than picking them off singularly in such a vicious manner should be considered. hope that didnt come off too anti-hunting, im fully in favour of drag hunts i just cant get the idea of fox-hunting to rest easy in my mind.

Odysseus

Yes

Can I ask a general question, those posters who would like to ban fox hunting. Are you guys oppossed to other forms of hunting, pigeon, rabbit etc.

I ask as I have been verbally abused when going out hunting. I live on a small estate, 500 meter walk to my nearest field. I have me gun in it's case, not visibe; but dressed in combats its pretty clear what I'm up to. I have people with their kids shout murderer, you kill the poor animals.

It's my sport, it's legal and to be frank it is nobodies business. To shout stuff like that in front of your children it terrible. No it would be unfair to tarnish all those who opposse fox hunting on horses with the same brush, but it raises my question do you guys opposse all hunting. My opinion is fox hunting on horses is not my spory, but it doesn't mean I would like to stop another man engaging in his sport.

Finally those I hunt I would consider nyself an animal lover, I don't treat any anamials including my prey in a bad way. I'm aware my post is a bit all over the place but 'I hope my main question is clear.

ISDW

Odysseus wrote: »

Can I ask a general question, those posters who would like to ban fox hunting. Are you guys oppossed to other forms of hunting, pigeon, rabbit etc.

I ask as I have been verbally abused when going out hunting. I live on a small estate, 500 meter walk to my nearest field. I have me gun in it's case, not visibe; but dressed in combats its pretty clear what I'm up to. I have people with their kids shout murderer, you kill the poor animals.

It's my sport, it's legal and to be frank it is nobodies business. To shout stuff like that in front of your children it terrible. No it would be unfair to tarnish all those who opposse fox hunting on horses with the same brush, but it raises my question do you guys opposse all hunting. My opinion is fox hunting on horses is not my spory, but it doesn't mean I would like to stop another man engaging in his sport.

Finally those I hunt I would consider nyself an animal lover, I don't treat any anamials including my prey in a bad way. I'm aware my post is a bit all over the place but 'I hope my main question is clear.

I have absolutely no issue whatsoever with people who shoot animals and then eat them, or give them to a dog or other animal to eat. If the animal is dispatched cleanly and quickly, then fair enough.

I do not agree with hunting with hounds as that appears to be more about the 'sport' than anything else, I thought that mankind had evolved beyond that.

Odysseus

Yes

ISDW wrote: »

I have absolutely no issue whatsoever with people who shoot animals and then eat them, or give them to a dog or other animal to eat. If the animal is dispatched cleanly and quickly, then fair enough.

I do not agree with hunting with hounds as that appears to be more about the 'sport' than anything else, I thought that mankind had evolved beyond that.

Cheers, yeah apart from crows and magpies [crop protection] everything else ends up on my table. I like the idea of putting my own food on the table. I know some of you guys here are very open minded as some of you post occassionally on the hunting forum, and I know you get the same here from my gang. But some for want of another word "animal lovers" post some terrible stuff on the hunting forum.

Which is why I asked the question as it's unfair to tarnish you all with the same brush. I'm not happy with the term animal lovers as most hunters I know would see theselves as animal lovers, but I'm a tad slow today and could not come up with a better term. Thanks for taking thje time to respond.

Discodog

[QUOTE=Odysseus;73119299Are you guys oppossed to other forms of hunting, pigeon, rabbit etc.

It's my sport, it's legal and to be frank it is nobodies business.
Finally those I hunt I would consider nyself an animal lover, I don't treat any anamials including my prey in a bad way. I'm aware my post is a bit all over the place but 'I hope my main question is clear.[/QUOTE]

Personally I object to hunting with hounds because it causes unnecessary suffering & I object to Coursing for the same reason. I also object to the abuse suffered by the dogs as a result of these sports.

It is everyone's business because it's our, as in Ireland's, wildlife & we should all have a say in how it is treated. If people make abusive remarks then that is a issue for them & you but I could understand anyone being concerned about a gun being carried close to houses or children. I could also understand anyone who lives near land, where shooting occurs being concerned about their pets etc.

You kill your "prey" - now in my book that is hardly treating them in a good way ! You kill for pleasure & I don't think that you can blame people from voicing their objections.

Odysseus

Yes

Discodog wrote: »

Personally I object to hunting with hounds because it causes unnecessary suffering & I object to Coursing for the same reason. I also object to the abuse suffered by the dogs as a result of these sports.

It is everyone's business because it's our, as in Ireland's, wildlife & we should all have a say in how it is treated. If people make abusive remarks then that is a issue for them & you but I could understand anyone being concerned about a gun being carried close to houses or children. I could also understand anyone who lives near land, where shooting occurs being concerned about their pets etc.

You kill your "prey" - now in my book that is hardly treating them in a good way ! You kill for pleasure & I don't think that you can blame people from voicing their objections.

That is an opinion and like mine your entitled to it. My Firearm is in a case so it is legal, I am going about my lawful business, and not only is it safe it is none of their business. Maybe I didn't explain it fully but just because the feild is 500 m away from my house does not mean I would discharge a fire arm there. You not claiming I did, but to set the record straight I never shot a pet, pets should npt be on private land

It's private land their pets should not be there. I kill for my table and occassion for crop protection for the people who allow me to use their land. If I did not enjoy my sport, get pleasure out of it I would do it. You make it sound that there is some wrong out of enjoy putting food you shot on your table far from it. It's not everybodies business unless I'm breaking a law, if a famer wants to to control whatever population on his ground as long as it's legal it has nothing to do with anyone else.

People have a right to state their opinions not abuse me, what example does that set for the kids not a good one I'm afaird. I can't tackel them when they do it as I'm armed, and god knows what they would claim. I have reported them to the police too. As they said I'm entitle to make my way to my hunting ground without being interfered with, if they have a problem they should contact the law.

It's the countryside I see people walking around with shotgun most weekend on the road as they have a right to. Anyway we are going ot here I was interested to see if those who oppessed fox hunting have an open mind to other forms of hunting.

wetdogsmell

Yes

i love hunting foxes, and we only use dogs, i can't wait for september and this season to start, if a dog catches a fox its dead fairly quick, some shot foxes can be just injured and take a long time to die, i'm not knocking shooting, just making a point

Discodog

Odysseus wrote: »

People have a right to state their opinions not abuse me, what example does that set for the kids not a good one I'm afaird.

You Mod a psychology & yet you seem surprised at a normal human reaction. Some might say that encouraging kids to preserve wildlife is better than encouraging them to shoot it.

Discodog

wetdogsmell wrote: »

i love hunting foxes, and we only use dogs, i can't wait for september and this season to start, if a dog catches a fox its dead fairly quick, some shot foxes can be just injured and take a long time to die, i'm not knocking shooting, just making a point

A shot fox won't of been chased & terrified before being killed. But I agree that shooting is not always reliable.

Worztron

Odysseus, how is shooting animals a 'sport'?

And wetdogsmell, you say you love fox hunting? So you love to see animals being terrified?

Leave the foxes alone for f*** sake.

wetdogsmell

Yes

for me its all about seeing the dog working, doing the job it was bred to do, weather its hounds searching and flushing, lurchers catching them on the run or the terriers going to ground and bolting them or holding them there untill there dug out, i think foxes are amazing clever animals, there would be no point hunting them if they were stupid

Hellrazer

Worztron wrote: »

?

Leave the foxes alone for f*** sake.

Infraction issued for this.
Theres no need to drag the discussion down with a comment like this.Everyone else is trying to debate it in a civilised manner aso why cant you?

Im not issuing warnings again on thread so keep it nice.

Odysseus

Yes

Discodog wrote: »

You Mod a psychology & yet you seem surprised at a normal human reaction. Some might say that encouraging kids to preserve wildlife is better than encouraging them to shoot it.

I'm out of this after this point, as it is a waste of my time. Abusing a person walking out of their house is not a normal reaction; it is aggressive and dis-social. Because if you think this is normal there is no point continuing this conversation. Some might say that, other people who engage in hunting sports would not, it is not universal. They see it as teaching their children to take an interest in the country, and hunting is part of that.

djflawless

Yes

i think it was over 2 months ago i voted on this poll and still dont get why its still going.its in the a+pi section so obviously there was going to be a very over run debate.us shooters seem to aways be in the wrong and im guessing if most of ye had yer way there would be a ban on clay shooting because its damaging the ozone layer or the enviroment or hurting animals ears.why dont ye ask yer nearest hunter to expain why he hunts?because its a sport/hobby.its what we love to do.its going to paint a very bad picture for any sport if the only images of animals being shot are ones which dont happen 100% of the time.not every fox thats killed spends 20 mins rolling around a field squeeling.most of them die instantly.just go bother something which will benefit ye instead of bothering an easy target

Discodog

The amazing thing about this thread is that it has, in the main, provided very good discussion. The poll started as very anti hunt but gradually more hunters have posted here & I welcome their input.

But it's no good getting miffed if people disagree with you & rather than walking out, why not try to explain & justify hunting. This is the A&P forum that is obviously full of animal lovers so hunters can hardly be surprised if people have strong views. We would get the same criticism if we posted in the shooting forum.

Many hunters believe that their "sport" is under threat. If it became a democratic issue both sides would have to explain their views & try to persuade others. Many here believe that a lot of hunting is totally unnecessary & only serves a recreational, for pleasure, purpose. They also believe that it involves unnecessary cruelty & they are just as entitled to those beliefs as anyone else.

Just saying that hunting is legal is hardly a defence. Most of what the bankers did was legal - didn't mean that it was morally right.

Discodog

wetdogsmell wrote: »

doing the job it was bred to do,

But surely this is one of the things that is wrong. I have sighthounds that will ignore a rabbit. I know terriers that wouldn't dream of going down a fox hole. If you breed & train a dog purely to inflict suffering on another animal for pleasure isn't that almost a worse kind of cruelty ?

wetdogsmell

Yes

i don't think its cruel, they love it, if they did'nt they would'nt do it, its that simple,

djflawless

Yes

wetdogsmell wrote: »

i don't think its cruel, they love it, if they did'nt they would'nt do it, its that simple,

FACT!!!