Ban on Fox Hunting

Discodog

wetdogsmell wrote: »

i don't think its cruel, they love it, if they did'nt they would'nt do it, its that simple,

I didn't mean cruel to the dogs in that sense. I mean that it could be seen as cruel to train one animal to hurt another. And before someone says it, yes it does happen in nature but one of the things that supposedly separates us from animals is our ability to care.

Discodog

djflawless wrote: »

FACT!!!

Well have you asked a Foxhound who is too old to hunt or a Lurcher that's on death row in the Pound ? Or even one of the 10,000 Greyhounds that are killed every year ?

Dogs live for 14 or more years but many "sports" consider them disposable once they have served their purpose. It's not all about the happy hound chasing a fox.

wetdogsmell

Yes

if you want to go down that road, what about the millions of animals killed for food every year, the only thing they did was eat and get bigger, thats their whole life, most hunting dogs are very well looked after, (i'm not saying all) if a dogs not fit and in great shape it can't do its job,
at least they had a good time while they were on earth,
(to quote the name of a book) WORK THEM HARD, TREAT THEM LIKE HERO'S

Discodog

wetdogsmell wrote: »

WORK THEM HARD, TREAT THEM LIKE HERO'S

Oh like abandoning them to starve on the streets like my Greyhound or leaving the rescue's to clean up the mess.

We kill farmed animals for food. We kill foxes for fun & we kill the dogs because we no longer want them.

pokertalk

farmed animals are killed in a humane fashion which cannot be said for alot of kills in fox hunting

Discodog

Also the welfare standards are often way higher for farmed animals because we eat them. They also have better cruelty legislation & enforcement.

homerhop

Yes

Oh like abandoning them to starve on the streets like my Greyhound or leaving the rescue's to clean up the mess.

Discodog we can go round in circles accusing each side of the debate. You mention dogs being abandoned to starve. How many dogs end up in the pound because people get them as pets just abandon them to starve when the novelty wears off? How many threads are in this forum over the last couple of years with posters complaining about the neglect their neighbours pets are going through? Drive into any housing estate and see dogs roaming loose. You have taken part in enough discussions in this forum about people walking in parks and their attitude to other dog owners. There was a court case in laois last week about an animal lover http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/woman-banned-for-life-from-owning-dogs-2808221.html. You say you like a good debate yet you seem to refuse to accept the fact that there is a large number of us who hunt that care for our dogs long after they have stopped hunting.

farmed animals are killed in a humane fashion

I posted a link here a few days ago that shows animals are not always killed in the clinical fashion you would like to think. Have you ever seen the reaction of livestock as they are being brought to the slaughter house?

wetdogsmell

Yes

i've never abandoned or starved a dog, and yous have obviously never been in a slaughter house, although thay do everything they can to make it quick, the animals don't seem to enjoy it

pokertalk

homerhop wrote: »

Discodog we can go round in circles accusing each side of the debate. You mention dogs being abandoned to starve. How many dogs end up in the pound because people get them as pets just abandon them to starve when the novelty wears off? How many threads are in this forum over the last couple of years with posters complaining about the neglect their neighbours pets are going through? Drive into any housing estate and see dogs roaming loose. You have taken part in enough discussions in this forum about people walking in parks and their attitude to other dog owners. There was a court case in laois last week about an animal lover http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/woman-banned-for-life-from-owning-dogs-2808221.html. You say you like a good debate yet you seem to refuse to accept the fact that there is a large number of us who hunt that care for our dogs long after they have stopped hunting.

I posted a link here a few days ago that shows animals are not always killed in the clinical fashion you would like to think. Have you ever seen the reaction of livestock as they are being brought to the slaughter house?

no but im sure livestock slaughter is governed better than foxhunting.what kind of legislations are in place for the humane kills of wild animails.im not against hunting as such i say fair play to a man/woman then can hunt their prey and kill it humanely for food or even as a sport .its how its done that i have an issue with and if people are slaughtering livestock in a non humane way then i would have a problem with that to

Discodog

homerhop wrote: »

How many dogs end up in the pound because people get them as pets just abandon them to starve when the novelty wears off? How many threads are in this forum over the last couple of years with posters complaining about the neglect their neighbours pets are going through? Drive into any housing estate and see dogs roaming loose. You have taken part in enough discussions in this forum about people walking in parks and their attitude to other dog owners. There was a court case in laois last week about an animal lover http://www.independent.ie/national-news/courts/woman-banned-for-life-from-owning-dogs-2808221.html. You say you like a good debate yet you seem to refuse to accept the fact that there is a large number of us who hunt that care for our dogs long after they have stopped hunting.


I posted a link here a few days ago that shows animals are not always killed in the clinical fashion you would like to think. Have you ever seen the reaction of livestock as they are being brought to the slaughter house?

I agree. But it goes back to the old pro hunting argument that there are others worse than us. Leave us alone & focus on other abuse. The point is that the animal abuse & cruelty that arises from "sport" is totally avoidable & unnecessary.

Of course some hunters look after their dogs but thousands of dogs that are bred purely for sport are not so lucky.

wetdogsmell

Yes

pokertalk, your ok with hunting for food and sport, so what would you class as a humane way of dispatching an a fox????????

pokertalk

wetdogsmell wrote: »

i've never abandoned or starved a dog, and yous have obviously never been in a slaughter house, although thay do everything they can to make it quick, the animals don't seem to enjoy it

never been in a slaughter house id prob vom:eek: but i have bein outside the turks head on a saturday night in town .:o

pokertalk

wetdogsmell wrote: »

pokertalk, your ok with hunting for food and sport, so what would you class as a humane way of dispatching an a fox????????

i realise the fox is going to suffer but colse to an instant kill would be humane, not bein ripped apart or left to suffer.and having a fox collapse from near exhaustion would nor be humane

Discodog

wetdogsmell wrote: »

i've never abandoned or starved a dog, and yous have obviously never been in a slaughter house, although thay do everything they can to make it quick, the animals don't seem to enjoy it

I didn't suggest that you had & yes I have been to a slaughterhouse. I think that it was a bad move to get rid of the local slaughterman who could dispatch animals without the need for lengthy transport & storage.

But it is still done to provide food & not for fun. We don't chase cows around a field until they drop with exhaustion. Maybe cow hunting with Lions would be more acceptable to you ?

Discodog

wetdogsmell wrote: »

pokertalk, your ok with hunting for food and sport, so what would you class as a humane way of dispatching an a fox????????

If you mean dispatching then a firearm. If you mean culling then a trained, qualified marksman/shooter who has passed a competence test.

I used to rescue wildlife so I have dispatched many terminally injured foxes.

homerhop

Yes

Discodog wrote: »

I agree. But it goes back to the old pro hunting argument that there are others worse than us. Leave us alone & focus on other abuse. The point is that the animal abuse & cruelty that arises from "sport" is totally avoidable & unnecessary.

Of course some hunters look after their dogs but thousands of dogs that are bred purely for sport are not so lucky.

No more than it goes back to the anti hunting arguement that all forms of hunting are cruel as it is animal abuse.

How many pet dogs are bred purely because they will have a fast sale value and are not so lucky with health issues or go to owners who bought them just cos they are the latest trend. As I said we can go around in circles giving examples of neglect on both sided.

wetdogsmell

Yes

that cow hunting sounds like great crack, but i'd use african hunting dogs instead of lions

pokertalk

homerhop wrote: »

No more than it goes back to the anti hunting arguement that all forms of hunting are cruel as it is animal abuse.

How many pet dogs are bred purely because they will have a fast sale value and are not so lucky with health issues or go to owners who bought them just cos they are the latest trend. As I said we can go around in circles giving examples of neglect on both sided.

but i dont think disco would disagree with you on that point

homerhop

Yes

Discodog wrote: »

If you mean dispatching then a firearm. If you mean culling then a trained, qualified marksman/shooter who has passed a competence test.

I used to rescue wildlife so I have dispatched many terminally injured foxes.

So are you a qualified marksman/shooter and what courses have you passed?

homerhop

Yes

pokertalk wrote: »

but i dont think disco would disagree with you on that point

Not saying he does pokertalk, he and I have been having this debate for almost 2 years now, he will keep pointing out that there are those in the hunting community who neglect their animals and I will keep pointing out there are those who are pet owners who neglect theirs. As was mentioned earlier in this thread it is just going around in circles.

pokertalk

homerhop wrote: »

Not saying he does pokertalk, he and I have been having this debate for almost 2 years now, he will keep pointing out that there are those in the hunting community who neglect their animals and I will keep pointing out there are those who are pet owners who neglect theirs. As was mentioned earlier in this thread it is just going around in circles.

so i think we can all agree that both these types of dog owners should not be allowed to keep pets or use them to hunt. im not really sure y u guys are still debating so.unless its about the manner in which they prey is killedand stressed

pokertalk

when you hunt homer do you think the fox is killed/chased in a humane manner??

kerash

Are there statistics that we can look at stating the population of foxes and what effect the hunting has?

homerhop

Yes

I dont hunt foxes with hounds but have grown up around packs, some of the statements that those opposed to hunting of any kind are so off the wall i sometimes wonder do these people know anything at all about what they are commenting on. If I post here on something it is on something i have first hand knowledge of not just looking at a poster by icabs peta or the animal liberation front

Whispered

Yes

PETA etc - These organisations are the bane of many animal lovers because it's as if you can't be anti hunting without being lumped in with them.

For the record I'm anti hunting unless there is good reason - ie vermin control or for food. I also firmly believe in a quick and painless death when possible. I grew up with packs of hunting dogs, at one stage owning 18, lurchers and terriers. Respect to the dogs and their handlers. My father worked hard to have a well behaved and relaxed pack. They were fantastic with us kids and I have very fond memories of curling up in the hay in their shed.

Like you I grew up with it. I remember going lamping!! I have a huge interest in how the dogs work together and it's fascinating to see their team work. I loved to see how without any formal training a new dog would fit in seamlessly and follow direction - usually a nod of the head or wave of the arm. But I'm still anti hunting. You can't put that down to ignorance really.

homerhop wrote: »

I dont hunt foxes with hounds but have grown up around packs, some of the statements that those opposed to hunting of any kind are so off the wall i sometimes wonder do these people know anything at all about what they are commenting on. If I post here on something it is on something i have first hand knowledge of not just looking at a poster by icabs peta or the animal liberation front

homerhop

Yes

pokertalk wrote: »

when you hunt homer do you think the fox is killed/chased in a humane manner??

I have stood watching hunts go by where the hounds have passed a good 10 minutes before the horses came by only to see the fox saunter down through the riders. The kildare pack hunts near me and I have been half a mile away listening to the hounds baying long before they have even been let out of their transport and seen foxes heading for cover. Is it a quick kill with hounds, very much so on what I have witnessed.
I hunt with a rifle. I have spent many hours setting my scope and getting to know my ability with it. I do not shoot above my capability and will not pull that trigger unless I am 100% comfortable in doing so.

pokertalk

homerhop wrote: »

I dont hunt foxes with hounds but have grown up around packs, some of the statements that those opposed to hunting of any kind are so off the wall i sometimes wonder do these people know anything at all about what they are commenting on. If I post here on something it is on something i have first hand knowledge of not just looking at a poster by icabs peta or the animal liberation front

well i think you make some fair points and you can hold your own as can discodog but im not really looking to discuss the dogs post hunting career life and more looking to debate/converse in the possible cruelty aspect in which the prey is killed and how it has suffered up until it has meet his maker.and from what i know it seems to me that alot of unessacary suffering sometimes accurs. i think that anyone that comes on here shouting murder murder without actually making a point should not bother

pokertalk

im sure there is plenty of hunters out there that are not as calculated as yourself do not have the same protocals as you . do you think there should be a governing body for hunting so that kills should be carried out as humanely as possible??

homerhop

Yes

Whispered wrote: »

PETA etc - These organisations are the bane of many animal lovers because it's as if you can't be anti hunting without being lumped in with them.

For the record I'm anti hunting unless there is good reason - ie vermin control or for food. I also firmly believe in a quick and painless death when possible. I grew up with packs of hunting dogs, at one stage owning 18, lurchers and terriers. Respect to the dogs and their handlers. My father worked hard to have a well behaved and relaxed pack. They were fantastic with us kids and I have very fond memories of curling up in the hay in their shed.

Like you I grew up with it. I remember going lamping!! I have a huge interest in how the dogs work together and it's fascinating to see their team work. I loved to see how without any formal training a new dog would fit in seamlessly and follow direction - usually a nod of the head or wave of the arm. But I'm still anti hunting. You can't put that down to ignorance really.

Just as you dislike such organisations and being lumped in with them I am sick to the back teeth of being lumped in with some of the comments made by people who are anti hunting. Its a two way thing.

Whispered once again you are not the type of poster who I am posting about. You grew up that you got to know what you are talking about and I have the greatest respect for you because of that and your choice. You have seen and experienced the feeling that those of us get when our dogs work well. You will find that if you ask most lads that hunt with dogs as they get past the initial stages of starting to hunting that they will tell you they would much prefer to see their dogs work well and not give a darn if they came home empty handed. Like your dad I have worked hard with any dog that I have ever had and my dogs have been well known by the local community both farming and other wise for their training.

homerhop

Yes

pokertalk wrote: »

im sure there is plenty of hunters out there that are not as calculated as yourself do not have the same protocals as you . do you think there should be a governing body for hunting so that kills should be carried out as humanely as possible??

You would be surprised at the amount of lads out there who have the same attitude as I do, but with all things in life there are some who will always look to the minority to get thier point across.
With the new licensing system anyone new to the shooting scene must do a profeciency course before being granted their licence. I know in the club I am in all new members are also sent on a course that covers everything from the wildlife act, to species identification and some coaching in shooting.
In my personal oppinion I would like to see something there that would have a set standard for shooting ability with coaching provided before being granted a license.