Ban on Fox Hunting

Discodog

homerhop wrote: »

If you dont mind me asking, where did this happen?

In the UK & prior to the hunting ban. We were called out by a lady because she thought that the fox had hidden in her garden. We couldn't find the Fox & were about to leave when we saw the hounds heading towards us.

This was not an isolated incident. There is plenty of footage on the net of cubs being killed. On another occasion a Hunter said that, as they had killed the Vixen they might as well kill the Cubs & refused to hand them over.

We sometimes got calls from members of the public who knew the location of a den in an area where the hunt had been. I have personally dug out cubs to rescue them after a hunt has killed the Vixen & I have the scars to prove it.

It is why Fox shooting should be illegal whilst Cubs are around. Letting them starve is cruelty.

Discodog

Whispered wrote: »

If that "some" refers to me (and I suspect it does due to my earlier posts?) you have me wrong.

I wasn't referring to you or anyone in particular.

Sonovagun wrote: »

I doubt this very much. All professional Hunts take great pride in obeying the laws of hunting. No Hunt is going to cross boundaries where the law is concerned and put their livelihood in jeopardy. It's easy to fictionise for the purpose of anti hunting propaganda.

What law ?. There is no law to prevent someone throwing fox cubs to dogs. It used to be quite common. I think the phrase was something like giving them the taste. There were no other witnesses, no cameras so what did they have to lose.

Sonovagun

Yes

Discodog wrote: »

In the UK & prior to the hunting ban. We were called out by a lady because she thought that the fox had hidden in her garden. We couldn't find the Fox & were about to leave when we saw the hounds heading towards us.

This was not an isolated incident. There is plenty of footage on the net of cubs being killed. On another occasion a Hunter said that, as they had killed the Vixen they might as well kill the Cubs & refused to hand them over.

We sometimes got calls from members of the public who knew the location of a den in an area where the hunt had been. I have personally dug out cubs to rescue them after a hunt has killed the Vixen & I have the scars to prove it.

It is why Fox shooting should be illegal whilst Cubs are around. Letting them starve is cruelty.

In the uk, not Ireland thank you for clearing this up!

What law ?. There is no law to prevent someone throwing fox cubs to dogs. It used to be quite common. I think the phrase was something like giving them the taste. There were no other witnesses, no cameras so what did they have to lose.

The hunt has a set of rules/laws they must abide too!

Worztron

At posting there are 101 to 77 in favor of a complete ban on fox hunting. Fox hunting is cruel and indefensible.

sotisme

Yes

Worztron wrote: »

At posting there are 101 to 77 in favor of a complete ban on fox hunting. Fox hunting is cruel and indefensible.

I misread poll and said no instead of yes (dont know how to undo )So 102 to 76

fits

Yes

Sonovagun wrote: »

In the uk, not Ireland thank you for clearing this up!

The hunt has a set of rules/laws they must abide too!

Its called a code of practice. Digging out is not something I have seen in twenty years. As far as I am aware, it does not happen anymore. I am pretty sure that the incident Discodog is referring to happened quite a long time ago too.

fits

Yes

the_syco wrote: »

You hunt the fox, you aim, and shoot. If somehow you don't kill it on the first shot, you quickly reload, and shoot again.

As opposed to ten f**kers on horseback, with 20 dogs. They will chase the fox. They will chase it until their dogs catch the fox. When they chase the fox, they see it as a "fun day out". And at the end, when the fox collapses out of exhaustion, the 20 dogs will catch up, and a few of them will grab the fox. They'll rip the fox apart, whilst the fox is alive. They'll tear off one leg, and then the other. The fox will die, but will die slowly. Painfully. It's limbs ripped off. One by one. In a slow gruesome death. Those on the horses will not kill the fox. They'll just direct the dogs.

:eek:

You should really follow a hunt on foot sometime and see how the reality relates to your imagination.

The 'fcukers' on horseback, dont chase the fox, the object of it is trying to keep up with the hounds, to observe the hunt. Indeed the fox often runs right through the field in which case they make sure not to taint or cross the scent.

If they were in the business of getting kicks from bloodshed, they'd be at something else, and thats the truth.

doctor evil

Yes

the_syco wrote: »

You hunt the fox, you aim, and shoot. If somehow you don't kill it on the first shot, you quickly reload, and shoot again.

As opposed to ten f**kers on horseback, with 20 dogs. They will chase the fox. They will chase it until their dogs catch the fox. When they chase the fox, they see it as a "fun day out". And at the end, when the fox collapses out of exhaustion, the 20 dogs will catch up, and a few of them will grab the fox. They'll rip the fox apart, whilst the fox is alive. They'll tear off one leg, and then the other. The fox will die, but will die slowly. Painfully. It's limbs ripped off. One by one. In a slow gruesome death. Those on the horses will not kill the fox. They'll just direct the dogs.

What is it about the field that bothers you so much? How does it matter if they are on horses or on foot. The clothes can look a bit funny but they generally serve a purpose, some hunts can be stricter on turnout. Its rude to turn up in mucky gear, a football player wouldn't do it in going to a match.

Some hunt to ride while others ride to hunt. The ones that hunt to ride do so for the jumps/access to land while the ones that ride to hunt enjoy seeing the hounds working as they search for a scent at each covert. As already discussed the killing part is quick, foxes are at more danger from getting killed/injured on the road or by idiots with poison.

doctor evil

Yes

no pomp,no west brit snobishness

Again there is the assumption! You must be familiar with every fox hunt in Ireland:p

fits

Yes

Bog Bunny wrote: »

When you talk of Hunts, does this always involve the pack of hounds going after the fox? And the sponsored rides and charity runs - are they the same as these 'hunts'?

Isn't it a bit of a conflict to be in hunting/killing mode and charitable at the same time?
.

Hunts often organise charity rides outside of the hunting season.

I dont know why you would think it is a conflict. Do you think hunters are like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde? We are just regular humans you know

doctor evil

Yes

John_Rambo wrote: »

(Hunters, feel free to correct me if I am way off the ball here)

Hunters have a fear that if one type of hunting is banned that this is the first of many chips being hammered away. They feel if fox hunting on horses will be banned that it will open the floodgates for deer stalkers, fox hunters, anglers etc... I personally feel that RISE leaned heavily on these fears for the Ward hunt and have got a bit quiet, but that's politics for you.

It is a real fear, it makes no sense for anti-hunt groups to disband when they have stopped one type of hunting.

EGAR

fits wrote: »

Hunts often organise charity rides outside of the hunting season.

I dont know why you would think it is a conflict. Do you think hunters are like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde? We are just regular humans you know

I think what Bog Bunny meant was foxhunts as charity rides but I am open to correction.

fits

Yes

EGAR wrote: »

I think what Bog Bunny meant was foxhunts as charity rides but I am open to correction.

No such thing. Charity rides happen over a predetermined course outside of the hunting season and are open to all, not just members. Normally for a fee of twenty euro or so.

Usually much higher numbers of riders and no hounds involved.

EGAR

I KNOW that but Bog Bunny might not.

ihatetractors

A funny story,
2 years ago one day while feeding the cows on a saturday morning, there's a field in front of it with a sloping down twoards a river. We seen the fox come sprinting up our field making a B-line for our straw shed, and we could see the hunt in the field across the river attempting to gain access to our field in persuit. We headed down and greeted them and gave them clear instruction not too enter as every year they seem to think they're right of passage damaging fencing and boundary ditches in the process.
We were happy after with our days work and occasionaly see Mr.Fox around the banks of the river etc..
We occasionaly go lamping and pheasant shooting but only a few times per year, ARE totaly against horses and hounds/terriors put down holes/digging out dens etc. No sport in that imo

Traonach

Solja of Hispania wrote: »

Research shows foxes very rarely kill a healthy lamb. I grew up on a farm and can vouch for this- there are far more importatnt causes of lamb mortality- if you focused on these instead of killing foxes you would have far fewer problems. Look after your lambs properly and dont blame the fox for the incompetency of some farmers to look after their lambs. The fox is a native species and was here long before us. Respect that.

True, foxes are overblamed for lamb mortality. I recall a farmer complaining about the fox killing loads of his lambs. On further investigation most of the ewes lambing were half starved leading to weak lambs being born. Also the sheds where they were lambing were filty leading to increase in disease (watery mouth), which lead to dead /dying lambs which the fox happily took. They do however take some healthy lambs especially twins if lambed outdoors.
Overall problems with husbandry which lead to weak/dead lamds can sometimes be unfairly blamed on the fox. It good to have a scapegoat.

Hunts are no friend of the farmer- they are a major player in spread of diseases such as TB, liver fluke, paratuberculosis etc from farm to farm.

I see how hunts could spread TB (movement of infected badgers), but I cannot see how they would spread Liver fluke

TippFan77

Discodog wrote: »

There will not be a ban here in the next 100 years. The poll here will be against hunting, a similar poll in the hunting forum would be pro hunting & a poll, say in After Hours, might represent the views of the majority.

You are right in a sense about this kind of poll. So how about a poll conducted on foxhunting by a professional marketing research firm such as MRBI or IMS or Red Sea? I'm all for it. Are the defenders of bloodsports?

Who can say what might happen in the next 100 years? Few had predicted the fall of the Berlin Wall...or the end of carted stag hunting in Ireland...or the end of legal otter huting on the waterways of Munster in 1990...or the coursing set being shamed into muzzling their dogs at coursing events.

Remember, before Tony Gregory moved that Bill in the Dail in 1993, the coursing crowd wouldn't even discuss muzzling. Just as now they won't entertain a dummy hare instead of the terrified real one they prefer to see battling for its life.

The carted stag hunt ban prepared the way for further progress in protecting animals from sport cruelty. Controlling numbers by shooting is one thing...terrorising animals for fun in bloodsports is another.

Drag hunting and drag coursing provide all the fun and games without cruelty. Then again, is it the cruelty that some people actually NEED to witness??

Worztron

I would be all for a Red C poll on whether people would want a complete ban on fox hunting or not.

Discodog

A poll is irrelevant as no political party would put a ban in it's manifesto. There would never of been a ban in the UK if Labour had not put it into their manifesto. There is no obvious will amongst the Irish population. It will be hard enough to get an Animal Welfare Bill let alone a hunting/coursing ban.

obplayer

I think the question here is who enjoys terrifying animals. As a meat eater I understand animals have to be killed to feed me, but do we have to terrify them before hand? If I lived in America I would have no problem hunting animals as long as it was a clean kill and the meat was eaten.

Cherry Blossom

obplayer wrote: »

If I lived in America I would have no problem hunting animals as long as it was a clean kill and the meat was eaten.

Has there suddenly become a shortage of shops in America or something?

The Big Fella

Yes

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Has there suddenly become a shortage of shops in America or something?

Not everything has to come out of a plastic packet does it? Animals never seeing daylight is more cruel than hunting a wild turkey in the US.

Cherry Blossom

The Big Fella wrote: »

Not everything has to come out of a plastic packet does it? Animals never seeing daylight is more cruel than hunting a wild turkey in the US.

Is this supposed to an answer to why I am querying the previous post as to what America has to do with anything or why a person would happily hunt if they lived in America but not here. What on earth does plastic packets have to do with anything? This is a thread on fox-hunting, have you ever eaten a fox? (out of a plastic packet or otherwise) :rolleyes:

angelfire9

My 9 year old daughter is reading a series of books by Tom McCaughren about foxes
http://www.tommccaughren.net/id3.html

I defy anyone to read any of the 6 fox books and still support fox hunting!

I read these books when they were originally published and they were stored in my parents attic for over 20 years only to be taken out again and read by the next generation

Foxes are beautiful, intelligent animals

A farmer who has a problem with animals taking or killing their lambs should have to establish what animals are actually doing the damage before blaming the fox, Ireland has a disgraceful amount of abandoned dogs and I have seen packs of dogs who were formally pets roaming the countryside and foraging for food they are normally impossible to catch and are just as capable of destroying lambs as a fox is

There should be plenty of alternative food sources available for foxes in the countryside i.e. birds, rabbits etc etc and a fox that goes for sheep is not the norm IMHO

My own grandmother had a problem with foxes that used to visit her chicken coop and steal the odd chicken
A fox will find the smallest gap under a door or through a window to get a nice fresh chicken but she didn't shoot the fox she improved the security of the hen house :cool:

BUT I will say this
If a farmer finds a fox (or a dog for that matter) attacking its livestock (including chickens/ducks etc) he is well within his rights to shoot it to protect his animals

I have no problem with a clean shot disposing of a nuisance animal
But hunting on horseback with hounds seems to me to be a cruel sport

who the fug

Yes

sotisme wrote: »

I misread poll and said no instead of yes (dont know how to undo )So 102 to 76

Same here

sensibleken

angelfire9 wrote: »

My own grandmother had a problem with foxes that used to visit her chicken coop and steal the odd chicken
A fox will find the smallest gap under a door or through a window to get a nice fresh chicken but she didn't shoot the fox she improved the security of the hen house :cool:

What? she didnt gather her landed friends and go out on horseback with a pack or two of dogs and chase the fox for hours? She just fixed the chicken coup? Your grandmother has some sort of agricultual genius that clearly has eluded all other fox hunters

angelfire9

sensibleken wrote: »

What? she didnt gather her landed friends and go out on horseback with a pack or two of dogs and chase the fox for hours? She just fixed the chicken coup? Your grandmother has some sort of agricultual genius that clearly has eluded all other fox hunters

The foxes kept the rabbit population under control which meant her vegetable garden survived
She was pretty self sufficient and ahead of her times in alot of ways

obplayer

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Has there suddenly become a shortage of shops in America or something?

Sorry, I meant any society where hunting for food is common. If we run around the woods with high powered rifles here we get the army after us.

obplayer

Never eaten a fox, don't believe they are very edible. That's the point really, I can understand hunting if the animal is going to be eaten afterwards but hunting just for the sake of terrorising the beast seams a pretty strange pass-time to me.

NeVeR

cant believe there is 98 "No" votes !!