Secure Domains and Brand Protection.

steve_

Hey Guys im looking for some help. Im hoping to buying the .com and .ie domains for a business idea tomorrow through blacknight. When it comes to hosting, if im operating a business in Ireland is it better for organic rankings if i have my site hosted locally or does this make much of a difference?

Obviously buying the domains is one step and registering the company name with CRo but is there any other steps that need taking to secure and protect the name?

Finally im only be operating in Dublin to begin and the business wont be spreading out of Ireland so im wondering if any other domains need to be secured? Or will .com and .ie suffice?

Cheers

Edit: Also im worried the domain doesnt get snatched as it embodies what the company does and lets you know the service provided straight away also it would help with SEO and such. My concern is poaching. I done a few searches on godaddy before and when i went to buy the domains a day later they were gone, maybe it was coincidence but it was suspect. Is your searches confidential on these sites or what?

Doh!! completely forgot about the prerequisites for registering .ie domains. If i wanna buy the .ie version does the company need to be registered with CRO first?

cormee

steve_ wrote: »

Hey Guys im looking for some help. Im hoping to buying the .com and .ie domains for a business idea tomorrow through blacknight. When it comes to hosting, if im operating a business in Ireland is it better for organic rankings if i have my site hosted locally or does this make much of a difference?

Obviously buying the domains is one step and registering the company name with CRo but is there any other steps that need taking to secure and protect the name?

Finally im only be operating in Dublin to begin and the business wont be spreading out of Ireland so im wondering if any other domains need to be secured? Or will .com and .ie suffice?

Cheers

Edit: Also im worried the domain doesnt get snatched as it embodies what the company does and lets you know the service provided straight away also it would help with SEO and such. My concern is poaching. I done a few searches on godaddy before and when i went to buy the domains a day later they were gone, maybe it was coincidence but it was suspect. Is your searches confidential on these sites or what?

Doh!! completely forgot about the prerequisites for registering .ie domains. If i wanna buy the .ie version does the company need to be registered with CRO first?

Depending on your set up location does matter, officially a .ie should be sufficent to let Google know you're targeting the Irish market (so no Irish hosting needed) butI always go for 'better safe than sorry'. If it's an Irish site aimed at an Irish market I use a .ie, host in Ireland and set Ireland as the target market in Webmaster Tools, it's very little effort and removes any questions/worries you'll have in the long-run.

To get a .ie you should, at the very least, be a sole trader (unless you're looking for yourname.ie, then you can just apply with proof of ID). If you a looking for generic name like plumbing.ie being a sole trader should be enough but if you are looking to register a brand name you may need proof of entitlement ie. alarm bells would start ringing in IEDR if you tried to register aerlingus.ie.

steve_

Cheers Cormee. I reckon i will use an irish provider for the domain and hosting. When it comes to registering the business name is this a long process with CRO? Iv heard its pretty quick. Should i buy the .com right away just to be safe and get the .ie once the business has been registered

PaulPinnacle

steve_ wrote: »

...does the company need to be registered with CRO first?

Afaik yes, but if you give the guys in blacknight a call they'll give you far better information (e.g. depending on the name, you might be able to apply pre registration).

+1 to Cormee. The "better safe than sorry" is good pragmatic advice. There are various different search engines, with numerous different algorithms, all being tweaked and changed continuously and each with a lot of conflicting advice about what does/doesn't work. With that in mind, keeping a local site on a local IP makes sense.

While it's a great idea to be aware of the impacts of different decisions on SEO, in this case (where it appears to be a toss of a coin call) I'd prioritise other criteria that a (local or otherwise) hosting solution offers (such as price, customer service, local knowledge, scalability, etc.). If you find a local host that meets your needs, all the better.

In terms of 'other domains', it's really a 'how long is a piece of string' question. If I set up in the morning with a <yourname>.co.uk, would it be an issue for you? If so, would it be enough of a problem to make it worth while grabbing the domain? And if so, what about all the others (.org, .net, .info, .me, .co, .eu, etc.)?

(Personally, I think you're probably fine with .com and .ie. Perhaps grab the .co.uk if you believe you might ever expand to the UK market - if you do decide to pick it up, jump onto fatcheese.ie and they've got an offer there of €10 cashback with one of the UK registrars [namesco? something like that])

steve_

Cheers lads. Im currently in the process of registering with CRO. Im gonna buy the .com tonight and then buy the .ie when the legwork is done. As for other domains i honestly think the .com and .ie is enough. Maybe ill get the .co.uk to be safe but cant see it effecting me much if it was taken.

Out of curiosity if i didnt have the .co.uk and someone else got it. Would the search results appear for the .uk version when using an "ireland only" search on google? It sounds ignorant i know but allot of sites seem to put Ireland and the UK as one and the same and i was wondering if the same would be true for search engines.

cormee

steve_ wrote: »

Cheers lads. Im currently in the process of registering with CRO. Im gonna buy the .com tonight and then buy the .ie when the legwork is done. As for other domains i honestly think the .com and .ie is enough. Maybe ill get the .co.uk to be safe but cant see it effecting me much if it was taken.

Out of curiosity if i didnt have the .co.uk and someone else got it. Would the search results appear for the .uk version when using an "ireland only" search on google? It sounds ignorant i know but allot of sites seem to put Ireland and the UK as one and the same and i was wondering if the same would be true for search engines.

Are you registering as a sole trader or as a limited company? If you register as a limited company you have to do annual tax returns etc. setting up as a sole trader is much easier, you just fill out the form yourself, pay the registration fee and forget about it. (Disclaimer: I set up as a sole trader a long time ago so the above info may be dated)

Regarding your question, if I understand you correctly, no the .co.uk shouldn't appear on an Ireland only search.

The other site is only ever going to appear in the same results as you if the second site was SEO'd the same as yours, it's so unlikely I wouldn't worry about it. They may appear on the same SERP if the person searches for "domainname"

mneylon

steve_ wrote: »

Cheers Cormee. I reckon i will use an irish provider for the domain and hosting. When it comes to registering the business name is this a long process with CRO? Iv heard its pretty quick. Should i buy the .com right away just to be safe and get the .ie once the business has been registered

Registering with the CRO should only take a couple of weeks. They sometimes have backlogs that push it out to several weeks, but I'm not aware of any delays at the moment (we tend to get a headsup if there is a backlog)

steve_

Thanks guys. So just a few final questions. I will be working with a friend and we want to start a partnership. Is the process similar as a sole trader? I was looking today and see i have to register with CORE and send my detail then to CRO to get a business number. As for trademarking is this something that should be done in conjunction with registering and getting the domains or is this not as important.

steve_

Ok so i just bought my very first domain OLE!! well i bought a few actually. I cant believe how competitive domains are like i searched a few domains last night which we gone today when i went to register. Again as i said before could be coincidence but i call shenanigans on that. I searched for livecards.com last night, thought it could be a nice live greeting card designer and poof, twas gone today. Awh well lesson learned!! Dont search unless you can buy there and then. Still i got the main ones i wanted so im chuffed.

cormee

steve_ wrote: »

Thanks guys. So just a few final questions. I will be working with a friend and we want to start a partnership. Is the process similar as a sole trader? I was looking today and see i have to register with CORE and send my detail then to CRO to get a business number. As for trademarking is this something that should be done in conjunction with registering and getting the domains or is this not as important.

I'd say work as sole traders until it's clear what direction the business is going, having some proof of your intent (ie. to work as partners) in emails or the likes would help in the event of the partnership going pear-shaped. It will protect both of you.

I just went through the process of trying to trademark a brand, it's fairly simple, unfortunately they declined on the grounds the business name I was trying to trademark was too generic it's not a big deal though as the driving reason behind my attempt was to protect myself from a newly-arrived competitor trying to trademark the same term...so if I can't he can't.

Anyway it's either €75 or €95, there's a short form and you send it off to the Patents Office in Kilkenny. If your brand exists before your competitors you have a form of copyright, not the same as a trademark, I know, but it does offer you some legal protection.

So basically what I'm saying is go with whatever you think. It's not a difficult process but not totally necessary at this stage.

pfurey101

If you are still buying from Blacknight, buy the .ie NOW and pay for 10 years (you do not want to loose what you want to keep). Its only e25 a year or so!

They will hold the ie for 21 (or 31?) days and then you can submit a scanned copy of the CRO doc as soon as you get it. They will keep sending you reminders - this is good!

The last 2 or 3 .ie's that I have bought all made the deadline without any hassle.

As for webmaster tools in Google - once they see the .ie they automatically target Ireland.

Is it your intention to host the same site on the .ie and .com or will you be pointing to the .ie? If you are hosting a site on both domains - be careful. If they are identical - then Googles' search engine may not like it!

Cheer
Paul

steve_

Nice one Paul. Cormee, if we set up as sole traders what would this mean? Im new to all this so like i said its me and a friend doing this and to me a sole trader sounds like a one man show. Can more then one person be a sole trader. Also when it comes to the shares each of us has is this done through CRO aswell?

Side question here. A few friends are making a cartoon just for giggles and i bought the domain for them. Would it be ok to transfer the domain name to tumblr as the site will only contain posts and videos. Does tumblr then take can of the hosting?

Also lets say for companies like Facebook and twitter, are they still bound to registrars and have to renew there domains or would companies of this magnitude take a different route?

mneylon

steve_ wrote: »

Also lets say for companies like Facebook and twitter, are they still bound to registrars and have to renew there domains or would companies of this magnitude take a different route?

They would use registrars like us.
In the case of the big brands you'll find most of them use Mark Monitor, a US registrar that specialises in big brands

cormee

Blacknight wrote: »

They would use registrars like us.
In the case of the big brands you'll find most of them use Mark Monitor, a US registrar that specialises in big brands

I've always thought a good idea for a web business would be to set up a name protection service. The service would register your name on any new social networking site so you couldn't be haunted by some lunatic with the same name as you.

There's some headcase whose Bebo page comes up first in a search for my name, I live in fear of any prospective employer/client confusing me with him.

mneylon

cormee wrote: »

I've always thought a good idea for a web business would be to set up a name protection service. The service would register your name on any new social networking site so you couldn't be haunted by some lunatic with the same name as you.

There's some headcase whose Bebo page comes up first in a search for my name, I live in fear of any prospective employer/client confusing me with him.

There's already a couple of services out there that do that

steve_

When is enough enough when it comes to buying domains? Let say i buy boards.com and .ie, should you be worried about board.com and board.ie or any other domain extensions? The business ill be conducting will only ever operate in Dublin so should i worry about slight adjustments in my domains or just buy the most relevant ones? I currently have the .com and a variant of the .com and just waiting to register the .ie. Just prices quickly rise when im buying .net .com .ie for various modified domains similar to the original

cormee

Some people will try piggy-back off another site's success by purchasing a domain name that's close to the original one. If you want to prevent that you should probably buy them, it can be expensive though. Don't get obsessed with it (ie. buying the .mobi, .eu etc) at this stage, focus on your product/site.


Regarding sole traders, no only one person can be a particular sole trader, ie. you can't share a sole trader registration. I'm not sure about any of the other legalities.

PaulPinnacle

cormee wrote: »

Don't get obsessed with it (ie. buying the .mobi, .eu etc) at this stage, focus on your product/site.

+1.

If you have the .ie and .com, I'd say that's probably enough for now. It's very much a case by case basis though, depending on the specifics of it a competitor with a similar domain could be far more troublesome to some sites than others.

If you believe that a typo of the domain name (e.g. board.ie vs boards.ie) would be common enough to justify the cost, it could be worth having even aside from the competitive side of things, but I'd say it's not a big benefit tbh (look at the trends for SE's, the most common searches are things like "facebook" or "facebook login" where people use the SE ahead of a direct URL).

If you're planning on working with a 'friend', I'd certainly suggest getting some professional advice. You really want to have a clear partnership agreement in place, that covers a huge variety of different scenarios (from how you deal with an offer to buy your business, what happens if one of you can no longer work, how profits are split, etc. etc.).

From the sounds of things, you'd be more looking at going down the partnership route (or possibly even a company), but as I said, it's something where you really should seek advice to ensure it's the best setup for you down the line.

steve_

Thanks for the advice guys. I was talking with my friend today and we agreed that im going to register as a sole trader and he would technically be working for me despite getting 40% of the business. Who would we go to for advice on partnerships? Also is this advice expensive to get?

As for the domains. Im not so much worried about the .mobi and .org ect more so the typo's. Currently the similar domains are just parked and registered in the US. Seeing as my main site will be .ie and operating in Dublin im hoping that is enough to own just the .com and .ie. Also when registering for the .ie version would i be entitled to say boards.ie and board.ie if my registered business was say boards ltd? Just for brand protection

trickobrien

steve_ wrote: »

Thanks for the advice guys. I was talking with my friend today and we agreed that im going to register as a sole trader and he would technically be working for me despite getting 40% of the business. Who would we go to for advice on partnerships? Also is this advice expensive to get?

As for the domains. Im not so much worried about the .mobi and .org ect more so the typo's. Currently the similar domains are just parked and registered in the US. Seeing as my main site will be .ie and operating in Dublin im hoping that is enough to own just the .com and .ie. Also when registering for the .ie version would i be entitled to say boards.ie and board.ie if my registered business was say boards ltd? Just for brand protection

No not necessarily-you are entitled to the domain you have registered,but you cant assume ownership of derivatives of that domain.

I know it can be easy to obsess in the beginning,and focus on things that arent so important in the big picture.Once you have both the .IE and .COM extensions-you should be fine

mneylon

trickobrien wrote: »

No not necessarily-you are entitled to the domain you have registered,but you cant assume ownership of derivatives of that domain.

No, but he would be entitled to register them if they were available

trickobrien

absolutely yes,and i had one case where a company chased me with emails from their brand protection company because i had inadvertantly used their brand name in my domain.Didnt matter that I had never even heard of them.

They ended up buying the domain from me!

pfurey101

steve_ wrote: »

Thanks for the advice guys. I was talking with my friend today and we agreed that im going to register as a sole trader and he would technically be working for me despite getting 40% of the business. Who would we go to for advice on partnerships? Also is this advice expensive to get?

As for the domains. Im not so much worried about the .mobi and .org ect more so the typo's. Currently the similar domains are just parked and registered in the US. Seeing as my main site will be .ie and operating in Dublin im hoping that is enough to own just the .com and .ie. Also when registering for the .ie version would i be entitled to say boards.ie and board.ie if my registered business was say boards ltd? Just for brand protection

1. For business start up of any sort - go to your local County Enterprise Board. I have had fantastic free advice, mentoring and support from the Fingal Enterprise Board. Us little guys will save the economy and they know it, so all are interested in sole trader, self employed, SME - call it what you want! Ring them today. They also have great courses that are very reasonable. Dont ignore the business side of the business!!

2. Yeah, .com and .ie are enough, optimise the word "Dublin" is your website keyphrases eg "product" dublin or "service" dublin. Not knowing what you do -do you really want to stick to Dublin? You can drive to cork in 2.5hrs :rolleyes: you know!

3. If you want to register two .ie domains you will have to explain why to the IEDR for each domain.

4. Im not really sure on brand protection etc. I have 2 small businesses, one ranks in the top 3 in the search engine results pages. That's my objective met! If some wants to mispell (sic) my brand, let them. I absolutely abhor hitting another site due to a misspell! However im sure 75% of most web users wouldn't notice!!

pfurey101

trickobrien wrote: »

absolutely yes,and i had one case where a company chased me with emails from their brand protection company because i had inadvertantly used their brand name in my domain.Didnt matter that I had never even heard of them.

They ended up buying the domain from me!

steve_

Cheers pfurey, i contacted my local enterprise board last week, seeing as its all government funded the guy i was talking to said he would contact me right away as soon as a new course starts up. So im eagerly awaiting that. As for operating in Dublin, maybe expansion would happen if the business took off but for now the profit on each product im selling isnt huge so costs such as posting and travel would just hemorrhage money at the start when i need it most.

As for the domains i think im content with just having the .com and .ie. I might just apply for a trademark to be safe but even without it i think things will run smoothly. I guess im just being overly cautious when it comes to brand protection as the business model isnt hard to replicate providing you got the funds. And seeing as i dont have the funds just yet i wanna keep things quite for the moment and try secure as much of the business as i can.