Randy Couture vs Lyoto Machida

preddy

What's in this fight for Machida?
Surely hes still a contender?

Niall0

Its a chance to beat a legend of the sport.

Oh_Noes

preddy wrote: »

What's in this fight for Machida?
Surely hes still a contender?

Most likely he will get first shot at Jones, he wouldn't be able to as it stands because he's coming off a loss. So they give him Randy. It's a horrible matchup IMO, I don't see any other outcome than randy getting laid out like Evans was, probably a lot quicker though. Really can't be good in the overall scheme of things for a guy pushing 50.

ollieo

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Most likely he will get first shot at Jones, he wouldn't be able to as it stands because he's coming off a loss.

Last time I checked Shogun was still the champ

Raekwon

ollieo wrote: »

Last time I checked Shogun was still the champ

LOL

Machida is definitely still a contender, back to back loses should not really count against a guy that has already beaten the likes of Stephan Bonner, Rich Franklin, BJ Penn, Tito Ortiz, Thiago Silva, Rashad Evans and the current champ, Shogun Rua.

MrStuffins

5 posts in and this thread is already full of ridiculous amounts of fail!

Mr. Loverman

I'd like to see Steven Seagal fight Couture.

Actually I'd pay to see Seagal fight Chuck Norris.

ollieo

Raekwon wrote: »

LOL

Machida is definitely still a contender, back to back loses should not really count against a guy that has already beaten the likes of Stephan Bonner, Rich Franklin, BJ Penn, Tito Ortiz, Thiago Silva, Rashad Evans and the current champ, Shogun Rua.

Of course Machida is still a contender, my point is that Shogun is the champ and Oh_Noes is saying the winner will get a shot at Jones who hasn't even fought for the title yet! :rolleyes:

Oh_Noes

Yes I am that confident that Jones will beat Shogun.

Shogun isn't all he's cracked up to be and Jones has done nothing to disprove the argument that he's a cut above everyone else at 205.

ollieo wrote: »

Oh_Noes is saying the winner will get a shot at Jones who hasn't even fought for the title yet! :rolleyes:

Shogun hasn't even defended the title yet! :rolleyes:

bjj-fighter

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Yes I am that confident that Jones will beat Shogun.

Shogun isn't all he's cracked up to be and Jones has done nothing to disprove the argument that he's a cut above everyone else at 205.



Shogun hasn't even defended the title yet! :rolleyes:

Have you ever seen Shogun before the UFC?

MrStuffins

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Shogun isn't all he's cracked up to be

Try telling that to Rampage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLwU9GGcEHk

Bit of a ridiculous post to be honest.

Raekwon

ollieo wrote: »

Of course Machida is still a contender, my point is that Shogun is the champ and Oh_Noes is saying the winner will get a shot at Jones who hasn't even fought for the title yet! :rolleyes:

Jesus, talk about getting the wrong end of the stick! :rolleyes: I know Rua is the current champion, sure he beat Machida for the title. I put a smiley face in agreement with you because everyone was banging on about Jones, who is only getting a title shot because Evans f**ked his knee up.

Btw your posts about Rua not being any good are laughable! Watch some of his old Pride fights, the guy is an absolute monster!

Raekwon

MrStuffins wrote: »

5 posts in and this thread is already full of ridiculous amounts of fail!

Excellent contribution, you don't come across like a dick at all

MrStuffins

Raekwon wrote: »

Excellent contribution, you don't come across like a dick at all

And what a way to not only contribute exactly the same amount in this post as I did in mine, but throw in some personal abuse. No need for it to be honest.

Raekwon

MrStuffins wrote: »

And what a way to not only contribute exactly the same amount in this post as I did in mine, but throw in some personal abuse. No need for it to be honest.

It wasn't personal abuse, I said you didn't come across as a dick. Btw your first comment was totally unwarranted and was more of a trolling attempt then anything else so what did you expect? Lots of thanks?

MrStuffins

Raekwon wrote: »

It wasn't personal abuse, I said you didn't come across as a dick. Btw your first comment was totally unwarranted and was more of a trolling attempt then anything else so what did you expect? Lots of thanks?

Oh sorry, you said DIDN'T, that's completely different. Just as well for me i'm completely unable to read between the lines, otherwise I would've thought that was an attempt at actually calling me a dick :rolleyes:

And your little crusade against me here is not only off topic, but is also back seat modding. If you have a problem with my posts, report them. Otherwise, get a hobby, quit the keyboard warrior bullsh*t and try reading the charter.

Jayo_M

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Yes I am that confident that Jones will beat Shogun.

Shogun isn't all he's cracked up to be and Jones has done nothing to disprove the argument that he's a cut above everyone else at 205.

Beating Bader, The Janitor, Hammil, Bonnar and Vera means he's a cut above everyone at 205? Get real. Sure, he destroyed those four, but none of them with the exception of Bader are even close (in my opinion) to being considered top 10 at 205. Beating them does not mean you're the number one light heavyweight. Beating Rua, does. And he'll get his chance. But until then, no way should he be considered a cut above Shogun, Machida, Evans or Rampage.

MrStuffins

I actually think it's unfortunate for Jones that Rashad was injured and Rampage couldnt step in. He's being thrown to the wolves here. It's too early for him IMO. Even if he was to win, he's still a few years off being that guy who can stand at the top of the mountain and smash all comers (like an Anderson Silva type character).

I really think he could be that fighter one day, but not right now.

Raekwon

MrStuffins wrote: »

Oh sorry, you said DIDN'T, that's completely different. Just as well for me i'm completely unable to read between the lines, otherwise I would've thought that was an attempt at actually calling me a dick :rolleyes:

And your little crusade against me here is not only off topic, but is also back seat modding. If you have a problem with my posts, report them. Otherwise, get a hobby, quit the keyboard warrior bullsh*t and try reading the charter.

My little crusade against you? Oh dear, this is getting rather silly now, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones all that, but I'm willing to take the high ground here so I apologise if I offended you.

MrStuffins wrote:

I actually think it's unfortunate for Jones that Rashad was injured and Rampage couldnt step in. He's being thrown to the wolves here. It's too early for him IMO. Even if he was to win, he's still a few years off being that guy who can stand at the top of the mountain and smash all comers (like an Anderson Silva type character).

I really think he could be that fighter one day, but not right now.

I agree 100% with you here. I think Jones is an excellent prospect with a really unorthodox yet entertaining style but Rua is far too seasoned for him right now and that experience will most likely show when they fight.

I like Jones though, his style is great to watch and I'd say a fight with him and Machida would be really interesting if it were to happen.

Mellor

Mods can we get the title fixed,
For some reason this thread about Shogun and Jones is named 'Machida and Couture"

MrStuffins

Machida beats Couture here. However, a win over couture should not mean that Machida is deserving of a title shot. He's lost 2 on the trot and will need to beat a Top 5 LHW to even get back in the picture.

Couture is not a Top 5 LHW.

Oh_Noes

bjj-fighter wrote: »

Have you ever seen Shogun before the UFC?

Yes, as I did Wanderlei, Big Nog, CroCop... Great fighters but that was a few years ago now. He hasn't really impressed me that much in the UFC, his fights against Mark Coleman and Forrest Griffin were particularly lackluster.

Raekwon wrote: »

Btw your posts about Rua not being any good are laughable! Watch some of his old Pride fights, the guy is an absolute monster!

If that's directed at me, I'm not exactly sure what post of mine you're referring to that makes claims of Shogun being "no good". I think Shogun is top notch but I think Jones is better. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

Jayo_M wrote: »

Beating Bader, The Janitor, Hammil, Bonnar and Vera means he's a cut above everyone at 205? Get real. Sure, he destroyed those four, but none of them with the exception of Bader are even close (in my opinion) to being considered top 10 at 205.

The manner in which he disposed of all those mid-level light heavyweights should tell you something about how good he is. No one else has really stormed through the competition in style like he has.

I like to watch the guy fight, he's entertaining and I'd be pretty confident that he's going to beat Shogun and win the title. That's all. You'd swear I was a Fianna Fail canvasser by the vitriol directed at my humble opinion.

Mellor

Seriously though, people saying Machida is still a contender.
After his last fight, Dana said;

"He had two losses in a row," White told the troops. "Right after he won the title, (UFC on-air analyst Joe) Rogan said this is 'The Machida Era,' and I thought so too. Then Shogun beat him, and then he just lost to Rampage. Now he's fighting Randy Couture in Toronto – and this is a must-win for him."

He needs a win.
The UFC also need him to win, to justify him getting another no.1 or title hot.

He is being fed Randy as nobody will thinking anything of it if randy puts up a fight ans losses. Randy will keep going in circles of losing to the top guys, and beating hopeless guys until he is no longer a draw and retires

MrStuffins

Oh_Noes wrote: »

Yes, as I did Wanderlei, Big Nog, CroCop... Great fighters but that was a few years ago now. He hasn't really impressed me that much in the UFC, his fights against Mark Coleman and Forrest Griffin were particularly lackluster.

I'm sorry to keep talking about Shogun but didn't you see both his fights v Machida? And you weren't impressed?

He out fought Machida in the first fight and lost a close decision. he made no mistake in the second fight! The guy is a beast.

You also fail to take into account the fact that he was nowhere near 100% neither against Griffin nor Coleman. You are basing your opinions of Shogun on poppycock sir.... POPPYCOCK!!

Sid_Justice

Mrstuffins is a head wrecker.

Raekwon

MrStuffins wrote: »

Machida beats Couture here. However, a win over couture should not mean that Machida is deserving of a title shot. He's lost 2 on the trot and will need to beat a Top 5 LHW to even get back in the picture.

Couture is not a Top 5 LHW.

But Machida has already beaten Silva, Evans & Rua in that order already so he deserves a titleshot if he wins his next fight regardless of his previous defeat to Jackson.

I think the match making here is crap though because it's a lose - lose situation for Machida. If he beats Couture (which he should) then people won't give him credit but if he loses then that's three defeats on the bounce and he'll be pushed down to undercard status fighting the likes of Griffin and Ortiz to keep his head above water in the UFC.

MrStuffins

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Mrstuffins is a head wrecker.

You sir, are a festizio!

MrStuffins

Raekwon wrote: »

But Machida has already beaten Silva, Evans & Rua in that order already so he deserves a titleshot if he wins his next fight regardless of his previous defeat to Jackson.

Not necessarily. The champion should be the guy who is currently the best in the world, just because be beat contenders before, doesnt mean he should be handed a title shot on a plate. He needs to work his way back in, and he should do this by beating a Top 5 guy.

If Rashad wasn't such a..... nice guy..... we could've seen him fight a Top 5 guy, beat that Evans.... guy..... and grab that title shot!

Raekwon

Oh_Noes wrote: »

If that's directed at me, I'm not exactly sure what post of mine you're referring to that makes claims of Shogun being "no good". I think Shogun is top notch but I think Jones is better. It doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.

You said that Jones will easily beat Rua as he is not all he is cracked up to be and hasn't even defended his title yet. But in Pride he was absolutely awesome, he won the Pride Middleweight Grand Prix plus he destroyed fights like Overeem, Randleman & Jackson. I also saw him live in Dublin versus Mark Coleman and he looked devastating that night.

Like I said before, I think this will be too much too soon for Jones.

Oh_Noes

I think you saw a different Shogun/Coleman fight than I did. Yeah, PRIDE was good, but it was 4 years ago. People age, injuries nag more, the sport evolves.

I'm more impressed by Jones than unimpressed by Shogun. But we shall see when the bell rings

Raekwon

MrStuffins wrote: »

Not necessarily. The champion should be the guy who is currently the best in the world, just because be beat contenders before, doesnt mean he should be handed a title shot on a plate. He needs to work his way back in, and he should do this by beating a Top 5 guy.

If Rashad wasn't such a..... nice guy..... we could've seen him fight a Top 5 guy, beat that Evans.... guy..... and grab that title shot!

True but I think alot of people want to see a rubber match between Rua & Machida to settle the score once and for all.

Plus Evans will definitely get a title shot once he is fully healed and fit regardless of what else happens between then and now.

The light-heavy weight division is probably the most competitive and open in the UFC right now, I wonder if Rua has what it takes to dominate it?

bjj-fighter

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Mrstuffins is a head wrecker.

Haha! that had me in stitches, this forum would suck even more without you!

MrStuffins

Oh_Noes wrote: »

I think you saw a different Shogun/Coleman fight than I did. Yeah, PRIDE was good, but it was 4 years ago. People age, injuries nag more, the sport evolves.

I'm more impressed by Jones than unimpressed by Shogun. But we shall see when the bell rings

Age? He;s younger than Anderson Silva, GSP, Frankie Edgar............ he's a young fighter.

Also, the sport evolves, correct. But what's your point? Where has there been any instance at all that the sport has evolved past Shogun? Name one! He is the current LHW Champion. He's the top guy in the world. If the sport has passed him by, i'd hate to see what will happen when he catches up!

Raekwon

Oh_Noes wrote: »

I think you saw a different Shogun/Coleman fight than I did. Yeah, PRIDE was good, but it was 4 years ago. People age, injuries nag more, the sport evolves.

I'm more impressed by Jones than unimpressed by Shogun. But we shall see when the bell rings

Should be a great fight........spinning elbows versus soccer kicks/stomps flying knees

Oh_Noes

Raekwon wrote: »

Should be a great fight........spinning elbows versus soccer kicks/stomps flying knees

Hopefully some good old twelve-to-six clean elbows.

el dude

MrStuffins wrote: »

Not necessarily. The champion should be the guy who is currently the best in the world, just because be beat contenders before, doesnt mean he should be handed a title shot on a plate. He needs to work his way back in, and he should do this by beating a Top 5 guy.

If Rashad wasn't such a..... nice guy..... we could've seen him fight a Top 5 guy, beat that Evans.... guy..... and grab that title shot!

Well jones hasn't beaten anyone in the top five either so.......neither had Belfort really, or Brock Lesnar, or Bj when he challenged Gsp at WW, or Rampage when he got his shot at Chuck.

A lot of it is timing, and depending on who the fans want to see fight. Fwiw I don't see Lyoto getting a shot if he beats Randy.

On the fight itself. I think the matchup makes sense and it doesn't. Theres not a lot of guys in the division that Lyoto hasn't faced already, and Randy is still a draw and all that. The big risk here for Lyoto is if he loses or only manages an unconvincing, boring decision. Long way back for him if that happens.

Kerikosan

This has got to be the most Awesome UFC Trailer of an upcoming fight... I can't help but shout Captain America! when I see it I am gunning for Randy Couture in this Fight he's a ****ing Hero. :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNRoPhTZlkA

MrStuffins

Kerikosan wrote: »

This has got to be the most Awesome UFC Trailer of an upcoming fight... I can't help but shout Captain America! when I see it I am gunning for Randy Couture in this Fight he's a ****ing Hero. :cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNRoPhTZlkA

Whoa, that's not even an official trailer! Very very nicely made!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNRoPhTZlkA

Mellor

Machida beats Randy to stay in the UFC.

He fights Evans/Rampage to get a title shot

Ush1

Just on the "Machida Era" thing. Has he changed training or something? His last three fights he's gotten hit more than most of the other fights in his career. Seems to be slower and less elusive than he was, ever since that first Shogun fight that he won by close decision.

Kerikosan

MrStuffins wrote: »

Whoa, that's not even an official trailer! Very very nicely made!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNRoPhTZlkA

Ha! It was so damh good I thought It WAS an official trailer!!!
amazing video though all his other videos are great also

preddy

Think Shogun is a great price at 13/8 to beat Jones, fight could go either way but im going with Shogun.

Not sure why Machida took the fight its a no win for him, has to beat Randy otherwise it says hes not a top 10 anymore and if he wins he was expected to......

Who else is available and fit to match up anyway Wanderlei, Griffin, Franklin ?

Dermighty

I'd go for Shogun, he's outstanding. So is Jones though.

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

I'd like to see Steven Seagal fight Couture.

Actually I'd pay to see Seagal fight Chuck Norris.

I'd pay to see Seagal do some exercise for the first time in 20 years. Fat ****.

riffmongous

Raekwon wrote: »

Like I said before, I think this will be too much too soon for Jones.

I think a big thing is that it is literally too soon for Jones, 6 weeks isn't enough time to switch from fighting a wrestler like Bader to a guy with striking like Shogun's.

Back on topic, didn't Randy say a while back that he was only interested in fighting Machida or Shogun? Randy is still a huge draw and since the Shogun fight isn't going to happen...

I'm looking forward to this, Randy mightn't be as physical as he used to be but his gameplans are still top notch, I want to see his approach to figuring out The Dragon.

illeagles_mcc

would love to see couture get this one but he'll need to watch out for the "deadly stuff" seagals been teachin machida!

When Machida was the champ I said Randy would find a way to beat him, and I still think he will now that he has the fight.
And then Randy will beat shogun! - shogun really struggled with Coleman and Randy is in 10 times better shape then Coleman. He has as good a chance as anyone of beating him.
Shogun while a great fighter is far from unbeatable.....

Randy has been written off how many times? Sacrificial lamb against randleman, belfort, green, liddell, ortiz...came back out of retirement at 45 and destroyed silvia when silvia was at his best and had 40 pounds on him. I think a lot of people who have started watching the sport in the last 3-5 years don't understand the legend that is couture and how foolish it is to write him off. He has one 3 on the trot. His fight with big nog was a war and although he lost he finished on top of nog punching him in the face at the bell....

Randy is like Maximus and is the true sporting gladiator of our era, not to be written off...

Professey Chin

Deleted User wrote: »

When Machida was the champ I said Randy would find a way to beat him, and I still think he will now that he has the fight.
And then Randy will beat shogun! - shogun really struggled with Coleman and Randy is in 10 times better shape then Coleman. He has as good a chance as anyone of beating him.
Shogun while a great fighter is far from unbeatable.....

Randy has been written off how many times? Sacrificial lamb against randleman, belfort, green, liddell, ortiz...came back out of retirement at 45 and destroyed silvia when silvia was at his best and had 40 pounds on him. I think a lot of people who have started watching the sport in the last 3-5 years don't understand the legend that is couture and how foolish it is to write him off. He has one 3 on the trot. His fight with big nog was a war and although he lost he finished on top of nog punching him in the face at the bell....

Randy is like Maximus and is the true sporting gladiator of our era, not to be written off...

Its a work night.Dont be drinking so much.
Randy struggled with (and realistically lost to) Vera. Shogun would absolutely murder him.

Ultimate Chin

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

Its a work night.Dont be drinking so much.
Randy struggled with (and realistically lost to) Vera. Shogun would absolutely murder him.

Realistically lost to? Good one. We'll get you reffing the next fight.
Shogun was about to get beat by coleman with 20 seconds to go in the final round and the ref mistakenly stood them up and shogun knocked him out. If we are making comparisons, randy finished Coleman with ease and is a better all round fighter then Coleman who is basically a wrestler. Go back and watch the fights again (and by the way you'll see Randy landed more strikes then Vera in that fight if you look at the stats).

Shoguns amazing world class 1 fight winning streak and crap record over the last 3-4 years definitly puts him in the class to 'murder' couture :rolleyes:

He's had one major victory in 5 years against Machida. Beating an already finished Liddell is nothing special. I'm not asking you to loosen your grip on shoguns nuts, but you could watch some of the fights of the last few years...

Stuffy

Deleted User wrote: »

Realistically lost to? Good one. We'll get you reffing the next fight.
Shogun was about to get beat by coleman with 20 seconds to go in the final round and the ref mistakenly stood them up and shogun knocked him out. If we are making comparisons, randy finished Coleman with ease and is a better all round fighter then Coleman who is basically a wrestler. Go back and watch the fights again (and by the way you'll see Randy landed more strikes then Vera in that fight if you look at the stats).

Shoguns amazing world class 1 fight winning streak and crap record over the last 3-4 years definitly puts him in the class to 'murder' couture :rolleyes:

He's had one major victory in 5 years against Machida. Beating an already finished Liddell is nothing special. I'm not asking you to loosen your grip on shoguns nuts, but you could watch some of the fights of the last few years...

But beating Mark Coleman is? FFS pull the other one buddy

Shogun was riddled with injuries, he gassed when he fought Coleman. Vera basically won that fight aswell, he dropped Randy and everything, even Randy said he thought he had lost.

I had to laugh at your "Randy finished the fight punching Nog in the face" (paraphrasing), haha so what? It was an epic fight but to say that he finished punching him in the face means fuck all if you were getting sweeped for 2 rounds previously.

I like Randy and he is a legend but by God I can't wait until he gets mauled so I can come back here. He wouldn't last 1 round if Machida actually wants to attack from the bell.

I still believe your looking for a reaction but you will get it when Machida wins

Professey Chin

Deleted User wrote: »

Realistically lost to? Good one. We'll get you reffing the next fight.
Shogun was about to get beat by coleman with 20 seconds to go in the final round and the ref mistakenly stood them up and shogun knocked him out. If we are making comparisons, randy finished Coleman with ease and is a better all round fighter then Coleman who is basically a wrestler. Go back and watch the fights again (and by the way you'll see Randy landed more strikes then Vera in that fight if you look at the stats).

Shoguns amazing world class 1 fight winning streak and crap record over the last 3-4 years definitly puts him in the class to 'murder' couture :rolleyes:

He's had one major victory in 5 years against Machida. Beating an already finished Liddell is nothing special. I'm not asking you to loosen your grip on shoguns nuts, but you could watch some of the fights of the last few years...

OK ill bite

1 Major victory in 5 years? Are you out of your mind!? The man won the Pride Middleweight GP at the age of 23! He destroyed Rampage, went to war with Lil Nog, Dominated Arona and has KO victories over Machida, Overeem(2), Liddell, Diabate and Coleman not to mention pretty much pulling Randlemans leg out of its socket.
His only losses in that time are a very debateable decision with Machida (which he finished properly in the rematch even though he had emergency surgery a few weeks before the fight), a freak broken arm against a HW Coleman and the Griffin loss with a torn ACL. He looked bad against Coleman but was coming back from 2 concurrent near career ending injuries and hadnt fought in near 16 months.

Lets see Coutures victories over the same time.Coleman, freak show Toney, a very debateable Vera, Sylvia and Gonzaga. None of these fighters are even in the UFC anymore.

I know the fights of both their careers very well and the only way Couture would have a chance would be a repeat of Vera and holding him against the cage but that involves closing the distance against one of the best strikers in the UFC. He'd be out cold in round 1

Well we'll see what happens boys. All I'm saying is that you diss randy and say he'll get murdered but people have been saying that for years and the only guy that really did it to him was Lesnar who had 60 pounds on him. We saw what happened to Fedor fighting against those odds against a guy who actually knows what to do. My point about the Nog fight is Randy is a gladiator who took a beating in two rounds, submissions by the best JJ guy in the division and still finished at the bell strong on top punching at 46 years of age. Do you know another man on the planet who could do that? I don't think so, so Randy deserves a bit more of your respect.

I don't think much of shoguns record lately, it certainly doesnt make him untouchable by any means. Apart from the last few fights all of randys fights have been for the title. Gonazaga and Silvia were at the top of the tree in their day and randy beat them, and not just beat them but destroyed them. Like a variety of other fighters he broke mentally during fights for his victories. Mental game is as important as the skill game.

Gassing against Coleman who gasses after about 30 seconds shouldnt be an excuse. Coleman beat him down and as he said after the fight "I deserve more then that" If the idiot ref hadnt stood them up and then stopped the fight with a few seconds left shogun wouldnt be where he is now, not by a long way.

I'm willing to lay wagers on Randy since you boys are so convinced of Shogun, what odds will you give me?!!