Spoilers - Strikeforce: Fedor vs. Silva - This Saturday

Gerard.C

Raze_them_all wrote: »

No, there's not.

I never thought of it like that before!

MrStuffins

Gerard.C wrote: »

Thats why Giggs is regarded as a genuine legend, nobody will ever question if he is or not. Its a word thats used too much anyway.

Fedor was great in pride, theres nobody in the world who would doubt that. But had he gone to the UFC when that was over, and fought the Coutures and the Lesnars of the world then there wouldnt be this question mark over him. But in all honesty, there is still this huge question mark over him, in some aspects. To beat the best, you do have to go to the UFC. Fedor, unfortunatley for all of us, chose not to. Now we're let to ponder what might have been.

So what you're saying is, Giggs is a legend because he played at the top level his entire career and never dropped down levels?

What about George Best? He went to the USA. is he not considered a legend?

What about Pele who went to the USA too? Johann Cruyff? Gianfranco Zola who ended his career in the Italian Second Division?

I could go on all day.

The fact here is, you're commenting on the Fedor you saw tonight. You have no idea of the fighter he was at his peak because you just weren't aware of him. Your opinion is based on ignorance of the sport. Simple as!

As I said before, anyone who was a fan of the sport in the Pride days would not say they had no respect for Fedor.

How about this, if you don;t think Fedor's achievements deserve respect, whose achievements do?

Gerard.C

MrStuffins wrote: »

So what you're saying is, Giggs is a legend because he played at the top level his entire career and never dropped down levels?

What about George Best? He went to the USA. is he not considered a legend?

What about Pele who went to the USA too? Johann Cruyff? Gianfranco Zola who ended his career in the Italian Second Division?

I could go on all day.

The fact here is, you're commenting on the Fedor you saw tonight. You have no idea of the fighter he was at his peak because you just weren't aware of him. Your opinion is based on ignorance of the sport. Simple as!

As I said before, anyone who was a fan of the sport in the Pride days would not say they had no respect for Fedor.

How about this, if you don;t think Fedor's achievements deserve respect, whose achievements do?

I was just using Giggs as an example! But I would imagine Pele and Best didnt go on about how they were playing the best teams in the world in America. They prob went there to wind up their careers at ease. Fedor was still the "number one heavyweight in the world" when he left pride, and probably even after the Rogers fight!

When did I say I've never seen any of his pride stuff? I dunno how many ways I can say I am fully aware of his Pride stuff. Again with the assumptions that everyone started watching yesterday and formed an over night opinion... He WAS great, I know! He hasnt done anything special in YEARS! And it is his carry on avoiding the UFC that has lost some of his respect from me. As a fan I would love to have seen the so called greatest heavyweight ever fighting in the UFC. Remember the buzz years ago when there was talks of him and Randy? The ball was in Fedors court and he didnt want it. Thats my issue with him.

edit - Cro Cop and Nog also had these great Pride careers, and we got to see them in their with the best in the UFC. I wouldnt say it about Nog, but Cro Cop lost his heart after losing in the UFC. Was Fedor afraid of that I wonder...

mailburner

I don't think people in general will give silva the respect he
deserves for beating fedor
silva will be a handful for any hw and considering the weight
advantage silva had i think fedor didn't do so bad and how
he got to the end of that second round was incredible

I think silva could win this tournament myself and see him as
proably the one hw in strikeforce who's improving and will
continue to do so

now if only i could get odds somewhere on him winning the damn thing

SanoVitae

Gerard.C wrote: »

Nobody thinks it is. It is, however, where the best MMA fighters are.

Ok then - list 8 Heavyweight fighters in the UFC who are better than the 8 in the Strikeforce GP.

I think you'll find it tough after you reach 4...

MrStuffins

SanoVitae wrote: »

Ok then - list 8 Heavyweight fighters in the UFC who are better than the 8 in the Strikeforce GP.

I think you'll find it tough after you reach 4...

We've already had this conversation further back in the thread.

There's no way in the world you can't say that, even if we were to exclude the HW division as you obviously think otherwise, that from LHW downwards, the vast majority of the top fighters in each division are inder contract to the UFC!

Mellor

Jayo_M wrote: »

Edit: To make it easy for you, here's the Sherdog top 10 the month prior to Fedor's bout with Sylvia.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/2/Sherdog-Official-Mixed-Martial-Arts-Rankings-13325
Looking at it, you'll see at that time only 3 of the Top 10 were in UFC at the time - Big Nog, Gonzaga and Werdum.

Just to play devils advocate. They've all been in the UFC at one point with the exception of Fedor.

MrStuffins wrote: »

That was me. Barnett has been living off his "Former UFC Champion" moniker for years now. He's failed multiple drug tests and can't even get a licence.

+1
Barnett is a joke at thi stage. He's tested positive for PEDs at least 3 times, can't get a licence to fight in the US, him going far in the grand prix messes things up for SF.

Stuffy wrote: »

Why should Fedor sign with UFC and get raped money wise (granted M1 probably did the same to him) by Dana White in the process of making him millions? If they wanted this fight so bad as suggested than 1 co-promotion with M1 is hardly going to result in M1 becoming an organisation to seriously compete with UFC (Strikeforce would not have had to been involved in the co promotion, just M1). UFC wanted this fight on their terms, its nice to see some people not bending over backwards for them.

I'm glad Fedor never went there because hopefully the UFC blinkered fans will realise MMA is not UFC.

Co-promotion was a ridiculous request. Even though Fedor is a huge draw the UFC is far better marketed and has solid sales on the back of this. Spliting the gains was not going to happen.

As for the bolded bit above. I suggest you google M1 Global and see who the owners are.

TechnoPool

there is a majority of mma ''fans''who think the UFC is the be all and end all of the game. the people who tune in to watch the ''ufc'' fights. Rather than MMA

seadnamac

TechnoPool wrote: »

there is a majority of mma ''fans''who think the UFC is the be all and end all of the game. the people who tune in to watch the ''ufc'' fights. Rather than MMA

As has been said before, NOBODY is saying that, it doesn't however take from the fact that the vast majority of the best fighters in the world are in the UFC.

Also since this is a thread with people discussing a Strikeforce event that kind of negates your point if your trying to suggest it applies to contributors to this thread.

And finally, there is a section of fans who will overrate anybody that is non-UFC just to seem 'different' or more 'informed'.

drayme

Raze_them_all wrote: »

No, there's not.

Erm there are people openly asking what if he fought Brock, Cain and Randy in this thread. So yeah.

seadnamac wrote: »

And finally, there is a section of fans who will overrate anybody that is non-UFC just to seem 'different' or more 'informed'.

Ever since PRIDE that has happened were most fighters records were padded with bull**** fights. At least in the main UFC dont protect dudes when matchmaking and thats before you talk about the standard of fighter.

TechnoPool wrote: »

there is a majority of mma ''fans''who think the UFC is the be all and end all of the game. the people who tune in to watch the ''ufc'' fights. Rather than MMA

It is UFC's fault all their competition have been ran incompetently? Strikeforce knows **** all about branding and promotion.

That_Guy

seadnamac wrote: »

Great fight to watch but I wouldn't call him awesome. When you put a relatively unskilled nobody in against an even more relatively unskilled nobody you can get a great fight but doesn't make them good fighters.

Well he wasn't that awesome but the fight itself was a really good spectacle. Just trading punches. Bloody thrilling stuff altogether.

Gerard.C

SanoVitae wrote: »

Ok then - list 8 Heavyweight fighters in the UFC who are better than the 8 in the Strikeforce GP.

I think you'll find it tough after you reach 4...

Okay I'll bite

Cain - Fedor

JDS - Overeem

Lesnar - Werdum

Carwin - Rogers

Cro Cop (this spot could go to anyone really though - Struve, Barry, Rothwell, Kongo, Meathead....) - Arlovski

Nog - Barnett

Nelson/Schuab - Silva

Mir - Kharitonov

I would have the UFC winning at least 6 of those 8 personally anyway, maybe more on a good day!

Gerard.C

Gerard.C wrote: »

Okay I'll bite

Cain - Fedor - That said, Cain was dropped 3 times by Kongo, if Fedor connected, God knows.

JDS - Overeem

Lesnar - Werdum

Carwin - Rogers

Cro Cop (this spot could go to anyone really though - Struve, Barry, Rothwell, Kongo, Meathead....) - Arlovski - coin toss. both are finished. However Mirko looks slow and unable to move compared to AA who still moves excellently, he just can't take a punch.
Nog - Barnett - now. Barnett.

Nelson/Schuab - Silva - Silva would murder either of them.

Mir - Kharitonov - Kharitonov is a nightmare match up for Mir and the exact type of fighter that Mir folds under time and time again.

I would have the UFC winning at least 6 of those 8 personally anyway, maybe more on a good day!

I don't buy into org vs org at all, and I have the SF Heavyweights winning 6 of your 8 proposed matchups.

MrStuffins

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't buy into org vs org at all, and I have the SF Heavyweights winning 6 of your 8 proposed matchups.

I think that the fact that some have UFC winning, some have SF winning, shows that the difference isnt massive between the 2 divisions.

So all this "UFC Heavyweights suck" is nonsense.

In every other division, the UFC Champ smashes the champ of every other org. Edgar v Melendez would be the only close fight!

Jayo_M

MrStuffins wrote: »

I think that the fact that some have UFC winning, some have SF winning, shows that the difference isnt massive between the 2 divisions.

So all this "UFC Heavyweights suck" is nonsense.

In every other division, the UFC Champ smashes the champ of every other org. Edgar v Melendez would be the only close fight!

I'd agree with you on all that. I think any permutation of Alvarez, Melendez and Edgar would be very close though.

MrStuffins

Jayo_M wrote: »

I'd agree with you on all that. I think any permutation of Alvarez, Melendez and Edgar would be very close though.

I think Alvarez needs to get his skates on and try his hand at fighting the top guys. I know he's been fighting Aoki, Huerta etc, but he has a REAL chance to be a top contender.

Although i'd say he's on a very very nice contract at Bellator

Jayo_M

Definitely. He really could be top 3 in UFC given the chance, imo. He does need to stop eating so many shots though - chins don't last forever! Hector Lombard needs to do the same.

MrStuffins

Lombard is an animal and he is DEFINITELY a guy who I could see smashing a lot of guys in the UFC. But again, i'd say he's making much more money from Bellator than UFC.

Another thing to take into consideration is the fact that these guys are Latino, with Bellator being sold to a Latino market, and they have the presige of being those hispanic guys who are the faces of the company.

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

I think that the fact that some have UFC winning, some have SF winning, shows that the difference isnt massive between the 2 divisions.

So all this "UFC Heavyweights suck" is nonsense.

In every other division, the UFC Champ smashes the champ of every other org. Edgar v Melendez would be the only close fight!

Agree completely.

And that's my point, none of those fights are a gimme either way.

Don't buy into Dana Whites propoganda. He has an agenda seeing as he's trying to hype his own brand up vs the competition. If anything, his behaviour would indicate that he is worried about the threat of SF. The sad thing is that Yahoo can barely hide their UFC bias these days, see Jim Romes latest comments about Fedor. Thankfully a post on mmamania.com summed up what I would have roughly said and saved me the time!

"I have been listening to rome for about 15 years... and he just got on the mma wagon. he slammed this sport for years and refused to talk about it. it used to make me mad that he gave mma no airtime and approached it as “human cock fighting” in the 90’s. now he’s a ****in expert, huh?
i enjoy his show for the most part but he has no business making a statement like that. i feel like breaking his jaw right ow. he’s a dana nut swinger for sure."

MrStuffins

My opinions would never be built on propaganda. Just on what I see.

And what I see is a UFC who overhypes mismatched fights (GSP v Hardy anyone?) and definitely fighters. But another problem is, MMA is becoming ever popular, and this brings out the "dickheads" (as the song goes) who want to show that they're not new fans. A lot of the time this UFC bashing is a way to let the newbs know "Oh, i'm really knowledgable. I know other organisations outside of the UFC. All the best Heavyweights are here" etc.

These people are just as guilty of letting their bias get in the way of their judgement. I mean, if they look at the Tournie, Rogers in ordinary and got caught out by Fedor and Overeem. Kharitanov would get nowhere near the top of the UFC HW division. Barnett's a joke and is being sold as the former UFC Champion. Overeem, no matter which way you look at it, is unproven against top HWs, Werdum is now being sold on the fact that he was the first guy to "beat" Fedor........ are they really letting this stuff hype them up?

In my opinion, the winner of this tournie can't call themselves the No.1 HW in the World necessarily. But maybe the same is true of whoever the HW Champ will be at the time too.

MrStuffins

MrStuffins wrote: »

My opinions would never be built on propaganda. Just on what I see.

Sorry I wasn't implying you were, more that a lot of people believe Danas tripe.

MrStuffins wrote: »

And what I see is a UFC who overhypes mismatched fights (GSP v Hardy anyone?) and definitely fighters. But another problem is, MMA is becoming ever popular, and this brings out the "dickheads" (as the song goes) who want to show that they're not new fans. A lot of the time this UFC bashing is a way to let the newbs know "Oh, i'm really knowledgable. I know other organisations outside of the UFC. All the best Heavyweights are here" etc.

Absolutely agree. They hype up rubbish fighters when their divisions are weak.

The MW and HW divisions in particular have been very weak in the past few years, and people forget just how shambolic the HW division was around the time Timmy and AA were battling it out.

For me, at the moment the only HWs the UFC has that are worth talking about are Cain and JDS

Brock is still very green, his wrestling credentials and high profile tend to elevate him higher than his actual MMA performances merit.

Carwin needs to show me more to be a top tier competitor. Gassing out at the end of the 1st round of a title fight is unforgiveable.

However I'll say both of these guys are worth talking about as top tier, for arguments sake.

I think Nog is too old and beat up now. Mir folds when put under any sort of pressure.

The rest are too green or not good enough.

MrStuffins wrote: »

These people are just as guilty of letting their bias get in the way of their judgement. I mean, if they look at the Tournie, Rogers in ordinary and got caught out by Fedor and Overeem. Kharitanov would get nowhere near the top of the UFC HW division. Barnett's a joke and is being sold as the former UFC Champion. Overeem, no matter which way you look at it, is unproven against top HWs, Werdum is now being sold on the fact that he was the first guy to "beat" Fedor........ are they really letting this stuff hype them up?

Fedor WAS the number 1 HW at one time. there is no arguing that IMO. He ruined all before him. Whether he had his moments where he looked ordinary or not (Fujita, Randleman, Coleman1, Rogers) he ALWAYS won. Much like Cain getting dropped 3 times by Kongo. However, I do think his time is up.

Overeem may have some proving to do in MMA given his long absence from the sport but here is a guy who has been in MMA his whole career and has gone off and won the K1 GP and has still ticked over in MMA competition in the meantime. He's relevant whether Dana wants to admit it or not. I agree he needs to beat some top competition to be right up there again, but he's not some nobody and I'd give him a shot against any UFC HW.

Barnett is a joke solely due to his history of roiding. Skillwise I'd give him a good shot against any HW in the world.

Arlovski is done. Rogers is a never was.

Bigfoot has looked brilliant in his past few fights. He completely outstruck Arlovski, and outstruck, outwrestled and out grappled Fedor, which nobody has done all in the one fight ever before.

Sergei for me is either awesome or rubbish. To say he couldn't compete with UFC HWs would depend on what mood he showed up in.

Werdum has probably the best ground game in the HW division. He's had some setbacks but he has also shown an ability to bounce back from these and seems to keep developing himself.

MrStuffins wrote: »

In my opinion, the winner of this tournie can't call themselves the No.1 HW in the World necessarily. But maybe the same is true of whoever the HW Champ will be at the time too.

IMO whoever wins the tourney should be pretty close seeing as they just won an 8 man tournament of guys who would all be in and around the top 10 (except for Rogers).

Orgs don't make fighters better or worse. Their respective skillsets and the competition they face does. And just because you fight under the UFC banner doesn't necessarily mean you fight better competition if you fight at HW or MW.

hisholinessnb

TechnoPool wrote: »

there is a majority of mma ''fans''who think the UFC is the be all and end all of the game. the people who tune in to watch the ''ufc'' fights. Rather than MMA

I don't think the UFC is the be all and end all of the game, but seeing as how we are all using soccer comparisons on here :rolleyes: I will say I would be much more likely to watch games in the premier league than the eircom league.

You watch the very best guys in your preferred sport, if you are into grass roots then you will watch other promotions and local events.
But for fans who have other interests and family commitments, if you are going to pick and choose which promotions to watch, the UFC is the obvious choice.

If that means you get exclamation marks around "fan" then so be it.

The UFC has done wonders to promote the sport globally and locally. And have no doubt about it, most of the young guys in Ireland joining MMA clubs these days were first drawn to the sport through the UFC.
So lets no be snobbish when talking about guys who prefer the UFC to other promotions.

Gerard.C

hisholinessnb wrote: »

I don't think the UFC is the be all and end all of the game, but seeing as how we are all using soccer comparisons on here :rolleyes: I will say I would be much more likely to watch games in the premier league than the eircom league.

You watch the very best guys in your preferred sport, if you are into grass roots then you will watch other promotions and local events.
But for fans who have other interests and family commitments, if you are going to pick and choose which promotions to watch, the UFC is the obvious choice.

If that means you get exclamation marks around "fan" then so be it.

The UFC has done wonders to promote the sport globally and locally. And have no doubt about it, most of the young guys in Ireland joining MMA clubs these days were first drawn to the sport through the UFC.
So lets no be snobbish when talking about guys who prefer the UFC to other promotions.

Fine post. I wonder how active this forum would be if the boom of the UFC never happened...

Jayo_M

Sorry if I came off "snobbish", I'm a huge UFC fan (if you are a fan of MMA, how can you not be) and it's definitely the best promotion with the best talent pool, but that doesn't mean some fighters fighting in other promotions can't be as good or better than those in UFC on an individual basis. Just because you're in the top 3 in your division in UFC doesn't automatically make you top 3 in your division in the world. Look at UFC's MW division. Anderson is undoubtedly the best in the world in his division, but the others in the top 3 at the moment in UFC are probably Okami and Sonnen but I wouldn't put them in the top 3 middleweights in the world.

ScareGilly

Jayo_M wrote: »

The top 3 at the moment in UFC are probably Okami and Sonnen but I wouldn't put them in the top 3 middleweights in the world.

Sonnen is number 1!

Free Chael Sonnen!:rolleyes:

ScareGilly

ScareGilly wrote: »

Sonnen is number 1!

Free Chael Sonnen!:rolleyes:

Jacare>>>>Sonnen

MrStuffins

Jayo_M wrote: »

Sorry if I came off "snobbish", I'm a huge UFC fan (if you are a fan of MMA, how can you not be) and it's definitely the best promotion with the best talent pool, but that doesn't mean some fighters fighting in other promotions can't be as good or better than those in UFC on an individual basis. Just because you're in the top 3 in your division in UFC doesn't automatically make you top 3 in your division in the world. Look at UFC's MW division. Anderson is undoubtedly the best in the world in his division, but the others in the top 3 at the moment in UFC are probably Okami and Sonnen but I wouldn't put them in the top 3 middleweights in the world.

Which MWs outside of the UFC are beating Sonnen and Okami? Who has been fighting top class opposition to show they deserve Top 3 status? Jacare? Santiago? Lombard?

Nope.

Jayo_M

I think Jacare would be. I'd hold his wins over Kennedy and Miller pretty highly, a win over Jason Miller is better than a win over Dan Miller in my book. Plus he's basically Sonnen's kryptonite. Plus they're better wins than Munoz and Linhares. Okami and Sonnen both have good wins over Marquardt, though.

I couldn't justify putting Lombard in there though, you're right. And I'm not sold on Santiago, I think he might get blown out by some of UFC's MWs.

Jayo_M

Jayo_M wrote: »

I couldn't justify putting Lombard in there though, you're right. And I'm not sold on Santiago, I think he might get blown out by some of UFC's MWs.

I would throw money down on Jacare to beat Sonnen or Okami. But Lombard wouldn't get past Munoz or Rivera, nevermind Okami, Sonnen or Marquardt.
Haven't seen much of Santiago myself but I'm glad they're bringing in new middleweight talent. There's about 5-6 guys that hang at the top but never quite make it, Maia, Bisping, Marquardt and Miller. I can see Maia getting another shot this year though, Bisping too at a push.

ScareGilly

Deleted User wrote: »

Jacare>>>>Sonnen

Sorry, I was just living up to my Chael nut-hugging status :rolleyes:

The above is true though, until Chael realises he needs to learn Jiu-Jitsu! :mad:

MonkeyBalls

"Randy Couture's longest unbeaten streak? Four. Chuck Liddell? Ten. Anderson Silva? Fourteen. Those are three of the most decorated and respected fighters of all time and their longest combined unbeaten streak equals 28 fights, or one less than Fedor by himself. " -Phil Baroni

Mellor

MonkeyBalls wrote: »

"Randy Couture's longest unbeaten streak? Four. Chuck Liddell? Ten. Anderson Silva? Fourteen. Those are three of the most decorated and respected fighters of all time and their longest combined unbeaten streak equals 28 fights, or one less than Fedor by himself. " -Phil Baroni

That's retarded tbh.

Fedor's win streak is impressive on its own. There is no need to belittle any of those guys to prove it.

Just to prove how much nonsense that is.

Randy isn't know for an epic fight streak. After jsut 3 UFC events, he fought for the title. Including this win, 15 of his next 16 UFC fights were HW or LHW title fights, including 11 title fight streak. Based on the fact that he has been consistantly involved in fights at this level, its hardly surprising he doesn't have any huge streaks.
Chuck has also fought at a consistantly high level. it's only his recent form that let his record down.

As for streaks, adding them together like that proves nothing. But if you are going to try and suggest it proves anything, then;
Jon fitch had a 16 fight streak, Why did you ignore him Phil Baroni?
Bader had 12.

Phillip Miller was 16-0 and retired undefeted.

Dan Servern has 97 Wins. He is probably going to hit 100 soon.

I am suggest that Miller is better than Fedor (who lost after only 5 fights). No of course not. I'm just trying to prove that stats and records in isolation are meaningless when if comes to the greatest of all time.

if anything, Baroni shouldn't be drawing attention to peoples records.

Raze_them_all

I think Beroni is pointing out that the guys who are considered the best in the sport don't have a streak like Fedor. I don't see it as belittling the other fighters, it's hilighting how great a feat fedors streak was.

Professey Chin

Ah now the loss makes perfect sense...........wait...whut?

16/02/11 - Fedor coach blames hidden psychics for loss to Bigfoot

Fedor Emelianenko’s coach Vladimir Voronov has presented an interesting theory for his fighter’s loss to Antonio ‘Bigfoot’ Silva on Saturday night.

Psychics.

“We believe that forbidden psychological technology was used… It seems to us that not everything was right, and that certain technologies were used. Not ones that could be seen by the naked eye but psychological technologies that worked on both fighters at a distance,” he said to Russian website LifeSports.ru

“That is why during the fight Fedor was just not like himself. It seemed very strange behaviour from Fedor. He stepped into the ring and did everything exactly the opposite of what we practiced before the fight. We were all shocked! Fedor had never previously done such a thing.

“Now nearly a week passes, everything settles, and we understand why all this happened.”

Voronov also observed with suspicion the fact that Fedor seemed to look “a little depressed” while “literally glowed from the overflowing of its energy”. Voronov suspects the use of a person or persons in the audience capable of “blocking energy” and “transferring energy from one person to another”.

Silva’s post-fight behaviour was cited as evidence.

Silva initially roared in celebration then became almost subdued as he went to bow to Fedor and thanked him for the fight. Voronov sees the sudden change in demeanour as highly suspicious, despite the fact that literally hundreds of fighters around the world have done similar.

LifeSports.ru also spoke to a teacher from what is described as “Russia's largest school of hypnosis”, who backed Voronov up.

“The human mind has enormous power of suggestion, it explains all sorts of curses, evil eye, etc” Nicholas Zakharkin said.

“Therefore, if a well-trained specialist is in the area of visual contact with Emelianenko, then he could convince him of anything and have any effect. If the hypnotist was set up and sat at a distance where he could meet eyes, he could make hypnotic influence without any big problems.”

Fighters Only has telepathically contacted Bigfoot Silva’s team to ask if they did indeed use any secret hypnotists against Fedor. We await a response.

http://www.fightersonlymagazine.co.uk/news/viewarticle.php?id=6244

seadnamac

Not retiring...

http://dreamfighters.com/?p=2723#more-2723

Jayo_M

All I can say to that is lol. Jesus, as a Fedor nuthugger I hope that is a bogus report

DrPhilG

Raze_them_all wrote: »

I think Beroni is pointing out that the guys who are considered the best in the sport don't have a streak like Fedor.

I don't mean to belittle Fedor's streak either, but when it's littered with MMA legends as Kerry Schall, Zuluzinho and Naoya Ogawa you have to pause for thought. Then you see guys with records like 2-3 (Choi), 25-18 (Tsuyoshi Kohsaka), 20-16 (Chris Haseman), 12-16 (Lee Hasdell) and 24-25 (Ryūshi Yanagisawa) you really have to wonder!

I know he's beaten the legends too, Nogueira, Cro-Cop etc and I don't doubt his standing as one of the greatest but for every 1 great fighter he's beaten, there's at least 1 absolute donkey. Randy Couture doesn't have a great winning streak because he fought at the top of the division for most of his career. He could go and fight some cans now and pad his record up to 30-10 instead of 19-10 but why bother!

Jayo_M wrote: »

All I can say to that is lol. Jesus, as a Fedor nuthugger I hope that is a bogus report

Wouldn't put it past M-1...

As for Fedor not retiring, he probably woke up the next morning with Hong Man Choi's severed head next to him in bed...

The Bored One

DrPhilG wrote: »

As for Fedor not retiring, he probably woke up the next morning with Hong Man Choi's severed head next to him in bed...

Now all I can imagine is an action movie where Fedor wants out of the fight game but various Russian and Japanese mobsters refuse to let him leave and kidnap his family. So Fedor and Aleksandr have to wage war against them.
Possible with help from Sergei Kharitanov who will steal a tank and end every sentence with the word comrade.

magic_murph

Overeem has to be the best HW out there at the moment.
In all of his fights I have never seen him once troubled.

Now I could be wrong and if you know of a fight please share. Always looking to boost the knowledge base

The Bored One

magic_murph wrote: »

Overeem has to be the best HW out there at the moment.
In all of his fights I have never seen him once troubled.

Now I could be wrong and if you know of a fight please share. Always looking to boost the knowledge base

Depends on what sorta time frame you're looking at. He only went heavyweight full time back in 2007, since then most of his competition has been of the decent but not amazing kind. He's only lost once since 2007, and that was against Sergei Kharitanov who on his good days is a step above most comepetitors. Prior to that he's got a long list of fights against some very solid competition at light heavyweight, heavyweight and middleweight with varying degrees of success. Definitely capable of being a very solid fighter though.

MrStuffins

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

Ah now the loss makes perfect sense...........wait...whut?


http://www.fightersonlymagazine.co.uk/news/viewarticle.php?id=6244

The psychics, I knew it was them.

Even when it was the bears I knew it was them!

Mellor

Raze_them_all wrote: »

I think Beroni is pointing out that the guys who are considered the best in the sport don't have a streak like Fedor. I don't see it as belittling the other fighters, it's hilighting how great a feat fedors streak was.

But i was just trying to point out that he is great becasue he is great, not his record.

A record alone is meaningless.

The Bored One wrote: »

Depends on what sorta time frame you're looking at. He only went heavyweight full time back in 2007, since then most of his competition has been of the decent but not amazing kind. He's only lost once since 2007, and that was against Sergei Kharitanov who on his good days is a step above most comepetitors. Prior to that he's got a long list of fights against some very solid competition at light heavyweight, heavyweight and middleweight with varying degrees of success. Definitely capable of being a very solid fighter though.

Werdum beat him at HW. well open weight, but its was over the 205 mark, not by much.

Overeem Sergei III should be good as its 1-1 and Overeem is bigger now

The Bored One

I tend to find that people's focus on records and rankings can result in mistaking the map for the terrain.
If Kharitanov is on good form, he and Overeem could definitely bo good. I can't remember offhand, who was the last really hard hitting guy that Sergei fought?

Shazbot

The Bored One wrote: »

I tend to find that people's focus on records and rankings can result in mistaking the map for the terrain.
If Kharitanov is on good form, he and Overeem could definitely bo good. I can't remember offhand, who was the last really hard hitting guy that Sergei fought?

Kharitonov's last five opponents were Arlovski, Tatsuya Mizuno, Jeff Monson, Jimmy Ambritz and Alistair Overeem. The heaviest hitter there is Overeem, who Kharitonov knocked out. Would be interesting to see a 3rd encounter in the HW GP final.

MonkeyBalls

Mellor wrote: »

That's retarded tbh.

Fedor's win streak is impressive on its own. There is no need to belittle any of those guys to prove it.

Just to prove how much nonsense that is.

Randy isn't know for an epic fight streak. After jsut 3 UFC events, he fought for the title. Including this win, 15 of his next 16 UFC fights were HW or LHW title fights, including 11 title fight streak. Based on the fact that he has been consistantly involved in fights at this level, its hardly surprising he doesn't have any huge streaks.
Chuck has also fought at a consistantly high level. it's only his recent form that let his record down.

As for streaks, adding them together like that proves nothing. But if you are going to try and suggest it proves anything, then;
Jon fitch had a 16 fight streak, Why did you ignore him Phil Baroni?
Bader had 12.

Phillip Miller was 16-0 and retired undefeted.

Dan Servern has 97 Wins. He is probably going to hit 100 soon.

I am suggest that Miller is better than Fedor (who lost after only 5 fights). No of course not. I'm just trying to prove that stats and records in isolation are meaningless when if comes to the greatest of all time.

if anything, Baroni shouldn't be drawing attention to peoples records.

You missed the context and the entire point.