5th of march NOGI Irish cup

Will Heffernan

Chris...you are so diplomatic.

If I knew anyone's names I'd be happy to call them out for you...after all...everyone loves you and thinks (well...in fairness some people actually know) I'm an a-hole

I thought beginners was for people who had been training less than a year? Well there must be some really unfortunate dudes out there...because I noticed a few guys in the beginners with pretty knarly cauliflower ears...must just be really unlucky and what about the guys doing the beginners who seemed to be coaching at gyms...maybe I am wrong? I've been at it since just before IP started (almost 2 years now) and I tried to wiggle my way into advanced (I shouldn't of said I had a black belt...I probably over reached there a little) as personally I prefer more competition not less.

Any way...I want to thank the organisers. I thought it was a great venue and it was very well run. Just disappointing that there weren't more people there to take part and to make more of the day.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Name them Chris.

Feck it, if your confident they're cheating throw the names out.

Chris89

No way thats definitely not my place, i have nothing personal against anyone either i just hope people read this so i can get some competitive matches.

Put it this way, i was the only blue belt in my division. i dont really need to name names, i think there is a list on bjj.ie or something.

even in the last gi comp i entered at blue belt there was only something like 5 people in my division, which is pitiful.

Edit: i also never said anyone was cheating, i just said it would be cheating for me to do the intermediate, because i have been training for 3 years. i probably wouldnt win that either to be fair.

arybvtcw0eolkf

That sounds like a right pain in the hole alright.

Will Heffernan

Chris89 wrote: »

even in the last gi comp i entered at blue belt there was only something like 5 people in my division, which is pitiful.

They are scared of what could happen to them if you pressed the win button.

Edit: i also never said anyone was cheating, i just said it would be cheating for me to do the intermediate, because i have been training for 3 years. i probably wouldnt win that either to be fair.

This is true...at least you're honest Chris.

crosdad

As a competitor, i hate pre registration. especially when you dont have your own credit card but i completely understand how this is frustrating for organisers. whats handy for organisers is annoying for competitors, and whats handy for competitiors is annoying for the organisers. i think battlezone being on tonight and cage contender next week, not forgetting a ricco rodriquez seminar in sbg might have limited the pool of competitors a little bit.

Liam_B

I was talking to Chris and Darragh today about this. With the entry level as under 1 years experience and under 3 years experience ,then over 3 years for Advanced ...what is the definition of the experience?? Is it BJJ?? Sambo?? Judo??

..Since the rule set were IBJJF , then the presumption is to define it as BJJ experience.

However this does mean that you can have a judo player or sambo player or wrestler who only trains bjj for 1year competing with an opponent who has no training but the 1year of bjj.

I do hear what your saying Chris about the entry level. Maybe the definition can be more specific, next time ......as Blue belt or more than 3 years experience = Advanced and Purple Belt/Brown/Black or more than 3 years experience = Elite etc..

On another note. Thanks to Gus for Organizing this Competition. Nice to see everyone today. Some great matches. Looking forward to seeing the Photos and Video's.

Doug Cartel

Liam_B wrote: »

I was talking to Chris and Darragh today about this. With the entry level as under 1 years experience and under 3 years experience ,then over 3 years for Advanced ...what is the definition of the experience?? Is it BJJ?? Sambo?? Judo??

..Since the rule set were IBJJF , then the presumption is to define it as BJJ experience.

However this does mean that you can have a judo player or sambo player or wrestler who only trains bjj for 1year competing with an opponent who has no training but the 1year of bjj.

How about giving them the benefit of the doubt once, but if they clean up their division make sure they're forced to compete at a higher level in future?

(Just to be clear this is a question, not a suggestion.)

gusuk

Hi guys just got home safe and well. I would like to thanks all the guys who showed up to compete today, special thanks to the table stuff and referees. I truly hope you guys had a good time,my main goal is to use the competitions to help to develop Bjj further in Europe, hope you guys can use this platform to show case your skills and help to promote your club.

Ps. If one wishes to sand bag and fight at a lower grade. Guys do you not worry cause they are only stopping their on development.

Let's hope next time we can all make it bigger and better.

Results will be upload when my wife let's me in the house, as right now I am sitting outside waiting for her to turn up!!!

All the best
Gus oliveira

gusuk

Here guys click for the RESULTS OF THE 2nd NOGI IRISH CUP 2011 - RESULTS.

GUSUK

da-bres

I completely agree with chris in this situation, I am a blue belt and have been training for 3 years. I feel like i am an advanced competitor so I entered in that category, Before this morning I was the only person in my division, and without the good grace of Michael Devlin for moving up a weight class, I would have not had a fight...

So Irish BJJ players training over 3 years and under 73 kilos get your lazy asses to competitions!

Disgraceful, show a bit of support!

Thanks Gus for organizing the event, was very well run!

Will Heffernan

gusuk wrote: »

Hi guys just got home safe and well. I would like to thanks all the guys who showed up to compete today, special thanks to the table stuff and referees. I truly hope you guys had a good time,my main goal is to use the competitions to help to develop Bjj further in Europe, hope you guys can use this platform to show case your skills and help to promote your club.

Ps. If one wishes to sand bag and fight at a lower grade. Guys do you not worry cause they are only stopping their on development.

Let's hope next time we can all make it bigger and better.

Results will be upload when my wife let's me in the house, as right now I am sitting outside waiting for her to turn up!!!

All the best
Gus oliveira

Gus...it was a great event and a great venue and thank you very much for organising it...I also owe you €25 because I checked my PayPal account and my entry fee didn't go through...I was online trying to buy a fireplace with a mantelpiece to put my medal on when I noticed I could afford the bonus gold plated medal holder option...I'll drop you an email and get you your money.

theboxingclinic

Good event, good atmosphere, good people.
Disappointed for the organisers and competitors that there wasn't more

Doug Cartel

da-bres wrote: »

So Irish BJJ players training over 3 years and under 73 kilos get your lazy asses to competitions!

Disgraceful, show a bit of support!

Hmmm, I'm under 73kg. How about this for added incentive: If none of you step up, I could enter, lose all my matches, still take bronze, and then start boasting about how I - a judo orange belt - placed on the podium in the advanced division of an all Ireland BJJ competition. You wouldn't want that to happen now, would you?

Chris89

gusuk wrote: »

Ps. If one wishes to sand bag and fight at a lower grade. Guys do you not worry cause they are only stopping their on development.

Hey Gus, i would agree with this usually, but unfortunately so many people are holding back, that it is stopping people in the right division from getting competitive matches. Not even just me, im sure artur piotrowski would have preffered a few more matches for his money.

Im sure the beginners would also prefer not to be tooled by some lad that should obviously be in the intermediate etc etc.

Kieran81

be great to see those scoreboards/timer at all competitions

Shane Fitz

Liam_B wrote: »

I was talking to Chris and Darragh today about this. With the entry level as under 1 years experience and under 3 years experience ,then over 3 years for Advanced ...what is the definition of the experience?? Is it BJJ?? Sambo?? Judo??

..Since the rule set were IBJJF , then the presumption is to define it as BJJ experience.

However this does mean that you can have a judo player or sambo player or wrestler who only trains bjj for 1year competing with an opponent who has no training but the 1year of bjj.

I do hear what your saying Chris about the entry level. Maybe the definition can be more specific, next time ......as Blue belt or more than 3 years experience = Advanced and Purple Belt/Brown/Black or more than 3 years experience = Elite etc..

I understand what you are saying Liam, but you and I and many others know plenty of Blues, who are training over the 3 year mark, hell at that there are even planty of whites at it for longer, self included , and not graded for any number of reasons. I also agree that the instances of novice bjjers with experience of other grappling arts, and sandbagging divisions is a pain.
But BJJ is still young enough in this country, and the community still close enough, that those "offenders" should be called out! Plain and simple. Or given that we now have an All Island governing body, what about refering repeat offenders to them? Between all the major stake holders in BJJ on this island, we should be able to police ourselves and not repeat the same mistakes

da-bres

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Hmmm, I'm under 73kg. How about this for added incentive: If none of you step up, I could enter, lose all my matches, still take bronze, and then start boasting about how I - a judo orange belt - placed on the podium in the advanced division of an all Ireland BJJ competition. You wouldn't want that to happen now, would you?

I reckon that you would not qualify for advanced division, and you wouldnt have beaten a very talented rudy arthur who took third.

Doug Cartel

da-bres wrote: »

I reckon that you would not qualify for advanced division, and you wouldnt have beaten a very talented rudy arthur who took third.

Oh right, I thought you got stuck with only two people in your division.

da-bres

Rudy signed up on the day, came all the way from glasgow, fought devlin first.

Doug Cartel

da-bres wrote: »

Rudy signed up on the day, came all the way from glasgow, fought devlin first.

OK, this is probably a weird question. Is Rudy Arthur an Irish guy who lives in Scotland and does physics or some kind of sciency thing?

Chris89

To follow on from doug cartel, 3 in my division, i came third by losing my first match. I came third at the last nogi cup too, won one and lost to artur.

Am i the third best 'advanced' middleweight in ireland, or considering artur and piotr are from eastern europe, am i the best irish advanced middleweight??

I know i am far from it but unfortunately not enough people show up to prove me wrong. I have only been training in the gi for 4-5 months, i got a silver medal in the blue belt division in the irish or dublin open, cant remember what tournament it was, won one match lost one match, silver medal...

Second best middleweight blue belt in the country after only training for a couple of months at the time...

come on lads..

da-bres

hahaha yeah i got that impression! Very nice guy! excellent competitor!

Doug Cartel

da-bres wrote: »

hahaha yeah i got that impression! Very nice guy! excellent competitor!

I used to train with him in Edinburgh. I wouldn't fancy my chances if I had to compete against him.

dasmoose

thanks for the comp gus! was good fun.

You guys can check out my writeup here and some videos from the tournament here - keep an eye on the site as i'll be uploading more videos in the next day or two.

EDIT: Updated with the Advanced/Inter Absolute Final and the Elite Division matches.

SDTimeout

I didn't enter this admittedly for fear of sandbagging of divisions. Simply because when i looked at the registration list, the amount of people who were entered in a higher division made me some what skeptical. I've only been doing BJJ since July. I would gladly pay 25 euro for a comp with 8 others in my division ( Beginner, Light ) , it's just my opinion that Barry's format ( Round Robin ) Suits the beginners better. I'd pay my 25 euro for 4/5 fights even if some guys were sandbagging , it's giving me experience regardless. However i wouldn't pay that to be sandbagged by someone who just wants a Medal in a single elimination tournament.

Congrats to David Phelan also who got a Silver in his absolute division yet didn't Medal in his own ? Could anyone explain that to me ? Great result for him.

The phrase "sandbagging" has now instantly shot to the top of my "bagging" phrases

da-bres

SDTimeout wrote: »

I didn't enter this admittedly for fear of sandbagging of divisions. Simply because when i looked at the registration list, the amount of people who were entered in a higher division made me some what skeptical. I've only been doing BJJ since July. I would gladly pay 25 euro for a comp with 8 others in my division ( Beginner, Light ) , it's just my opinion that Barry's format ( Round Robin ) Suits the beginners better. I'd pay my 25 euro for 4/5 fights even if some guys were sandbagging , it's giving me experience regardless. However i wouldn't pay that to be sandbagged by someone who just wants a Medal in a single elimination tournament.

Congrats to David Phelan also who got a Silver in his absolute division yet didn't Medal in his own ? Could anyone explain that to me ? Great result for him.

The phrase "sandbagging" has now instantly shot to the top of my "bagging" phrases

This is a good point, in david's division there was one player who clearly was not a beginner, he was hitting drop seo nagi's and moved as if he had been rolling for years. I dont know his name but I reckon he had a few years of sambo/judo/bjj behind him... or he was just freakishly good, and learned all his technique in under a year:rolleyes::rolleyes:

NG-DOC

SDTimeout wrote: »

Congrats to David Phelan also who got a Silver in his absolute division yet didn't Medal in his own ? Could anyone explain that to me ? Great result for him.

The absolute was open to anyone, not just to those who medalled in their division.

SDTimeout

NG-DOC wrote: »

The absolute was open to anyone, not just to those who medalled in their division.

I know that, but was there many people who entered it compared to his weight division . Just seems weird he would do so well in it and not Medal in his division is all. Some achievement by him none the less.

NG-DOC

SDTimeout wrote: »

I know that, but was there many people who entered it compared to his weight division . Just seems weird he would do so well in it and not Medal in his division is all. Some achievement by him none the less.

i agree. a very impressive achievement

bjj-fighter

An example would be Gunnar Nelson losing his first match at ADCC in his weight class, but coming 4th in the absolute even though he was the lightest guy! It happens, could be luck of the draw sometimes or maybe they just don't make the same mistakes as they did in their weight classes, there could be many factors.

FTA69

Fair play to Barry Hickey from Sean Scoil here in Cork, delighted for his bronze.

Rickson1

Intermediate final ended with a disqualification because the guys knee was apparently twisted and it was perfectly straight? That's a bad ref right there.
The rule on not allowing leglocks that twist the knee is bad anyway...guys are allowed peruvian neckties, guillotines and things that attack the neck, but yet the rules don't allow for a heel hook or a position that bends the knee slightly? Might be something that could be introduced into Irish BJJ competitions in the future.
All in all they were great matches to watch, alot of quick finishes which is good see and also a few good back and forth matches.

Chris89

The rule is that you cant 'reap' the knee, so if your outside heel crosses over the hip, it can put a lot of pressure on the knee.

If he was reaping the knee, and the ref stopped it before his knee bent, then it sounds like good reffing to me, have a check of the rules mate.

Also no way is the injury potential the same for a heelhook as a guillotine!! bizzare comparisson.

Barry.Oglesby

Rickson1 wrote: »

Intermediate final ended with a disqualification because the guys knee was apparently twisted and it was perfectly straight? That's a bad ref right there.
The rule on not allowing leglocks that twist the knee is bad anyway...guys are allowed peruvian neckties, guillotines and things that attack the neck, but yet the rules don't allow for a heel hook or a position that bends the knee slightly? Might be something that could be introduced into Irish BJJ competitions in the future.
All in all they were great matches to watch, alot of quick finishes which is good see and also a few good back and forth matches.

Why would Irish BJJ matches deviate from the international standards? Also the refereeing was spot on in that match.

peteclarke

rickson1 are you joking.
the american dude that was disqualified is a great asset to the irish bjj events. especially since very few irish lads show up. hes a beast with some mad skills but just cus you train with him doesnt mean his match was reffed badly.
these are the rules in bjj/no gi comps. you cant reap the knee just like you cant kick or punch. make one of these fouls and you are DQed.

also, if you get guillotined you just tap and everything is ok. if you get heel hooked you might not be walking around for a while. we all have lives outside of small competitions so i dont want to see people getting bad injuries.

Rickson1

Chris89 wrote: »

The rule is that you cant 'reap' the knee, so if your outside heel crosses over the hip, it can put a lot of pressure on the knee.

If he was reaping the knee, and the ref stopped it before his knee bent, then it sounds like good reffing to me, have a check of the rules mate.

Also no way is the injury potential the same for a heelhook as a guillotine!! bizzare comparisson.

I just think that rule in general is fairly stupid about pressure on knees when guys are arm-barring eachother and wrenching necks out of place..but yet if the knee bends then there is a whole controversy ? lol

Rickson1

As i say, my issue isn't with that particular match dude, it's with the rule of not being allowed to 'reap' the knee when guys are bending arms backwards and more importantly, pulling necks out of place with certain chokes which would, from common knowledge, I'd say thats alot more dangerous?

Rickson1

Wishful thinking just that if enough guys think that it's a silly rule not being allowed to bends the knee (reap) then maybe it could be allowed in local Irish comps. Ive always had issue with limited leg attacks and the way you have to do them, when (and i'm sounding repetitive now from my other posts so sorry) guys are trying to break necks even when they are only applying a choke or breaking arms/shoulders but not a simple heelhook...that's crazy.

Doug Cartel

Rickson1 wrote: »

Wishful thinking just that if enough guys think that it's a silly rule not being allowed to bends the knee (reap) then maybe it could be allowed in local Irish comps. Ive always had issue with limited leg attacks and the way you have to do them, when (and i'm sounding repetitive now from my other posts so sorry) guys are trying to break necks even when they are only applying a choke or breaking arms/shoulders but not a simple heelhook...that's crazy.

Do you do any form of sub grappling yourself?

Clive

Rickson1 wrote: »

Wishful thinking just that if enough guys think that it's a silly rule not being allowed to bends the knee (reap) then maybe it could be allowed in local Irish comps. Ive always had issue with limited leg attacks and the way you have to do them, when (and i'm sounding repetitive now from my other posts so sorry) guys are trying to break necks even when they are only applying a choke or breaking arms/shoulders but not a simple heelhook...that's crazy.

Rickson1 do you train or are you more a fan? The reason I ask is that of the thousands of matches I've seen I've yet to see a broken arm or neck. A heel hook is different in that it doesn't hyperextend the joint - the twisting pressure snaps the ligaments without much pain before the damage is done. Only very experienced grappler should be in the position to use or be on the receiving end of one.

Yes, the reaping the knee rule is stupid, and it's because Brazilians don't like leg locks, but those are the rules, so if people want to compete in BJJ competitions they need to be able to work within them.

There are other formats for people who prefer different rules.

r_obric

Clive wrote: »

Rickson1 do you train or are you more a fan? The reason I ask is that of the thousands of matches I've seen I've yet to see a broken arm or neck. A heel hook is different in that it doesn't hyperextend the joint - the twisting pressure snaps the ligaments without much pain before the damage is done. Only very experienced grappler should be in the position to use or be on the receiving end of one.

Yes, the reaping the knee rule is stupid, and it's because Brazilians don't like leg locks, but those are the rules, so if people want to compete in BJJ competitions they need to be able to work within them.

There are other formats for people who prefer different rules.

i havent trained since last sepember because of a knee injury and op, when i do get back training and competing it wont be in any comp that allows reaping the knee, its very easy to do damage to the knee from those positions without even trying a sub.

DavidPhelan

SDTimeout wrote: »

Congrats to David Phelan also who got a Silver in his absolute division yet didn't Medal in his own ? Could anyone explain that to me ? Great result for him.

The phrase "sandbagging" has now instantly shot to the top of my "bagging" phrases

Appreciate it! not on boards much so late replying! Think I may have rolled with you at Barry's NOGI comp?! I lost in my division, simple as. Not going to say it was a sandbagging offence because I don't know who he was and wouldn't make accusations. He beat me but I wouldn't say it was a totally disgraceful performance and I've only been doing bjj since start of September so maybe he has been doing it a year. Fairly surprised about his mad throws though!!

Was warmed up and had nothing to lose for the absolute. Felt like I was rolling in training, big difference - not such an adrenaline dump. You should enter in all competitions, I'd enter advanced if I had to. Nothing wrong with losing, too many don't enter comps because they're scared of losing.

Enter in the Munster in May and I'll see ya there!!:D

SDTimeout

DavidPhelan wrote: »

Appreciate it! not on boards much so late replying! Think I may have rolled with you at Barry's NOGI comp?! I lost in my division, simple as. Not going to say it was a sandbagging offence because I don't know who he was and wouldn't make accusations. He beat me but I wouldn't say it was a totally disgraceful performance and I've only been doing bjj since start of September so maybe he has been doing it a year. Fairly surprised about his mad throws though!!

Was warmed up and had nothing to lose for the absolute. Felt like I was rolling in training, big difference - not such an adrenaline dump. You should enter in all competitions, I'd enter advanced if I had to. Nothing wrong with losing, too many don't enter comps because they're scared of losing.

Enter in the Munster in May and I'll see ya there!!:D

I was the fella who landed dodge on his leg. I won't make it to munster as my club has a fight night on that day. Getting down from Dundalk with my BJJ coach would not be feasible at all. I'll probably see you and your brother i guess on the 9th of April ?

Congrats on the absolute again!

DavidPhelan

SDTimeout wrote: »

I was the fella who landed dodge on his leg. I won't make it to munster as my club has a fight night on that day. Getting down from Dundalk with my BJJ coach would not be feasible at all. I'll probably see you and your brother i guess on the 9th of April ?

Congrats on the absolute again!

Oh yeah, that was rather unfortunate! 9th of April it is then. Unfortunately Marcus damaged his MCL in training so not too confident he'll be training fully by then, never mind competing. You gonna be doing Feather again or Light? Btw, found some major sandbagging proof online so I take back my previously pc comment. Disappointing that people are that sad really.... However, I thoroughly couldn't give a s**t, just shows how rubbish they are!!!!:p

Rickson1

Clive wrote: »

Rickson1 do you train or are you more a fan? The reason I ask is that of the thousands of matches I've seen I've yet to see a broken arm or neck. A heel hook is different in that it doesn't hyperextend the joint - the twisting pressure snaps the ligaments without much pain before the damage is done. Only very experienced grappler should be in the position to use or be on the receiving end of one.

Yes, the reaping the knee rule is stupid, and it's because Brazilians don't like leg locks, but those are the rules, so if people want to compete in BJJ competitions they need to be able to work within them.

There are other formats for people who prefer different rules.

Yeah I've been training BJJ and kickboxing for four years and have been competing since I started. I've seen shoulders get dislocated, arms being broke and guys getting their necks cranked outta place bad (including myself but it's fine now).

That's the reason there are so strict rules on the knee as you said, Brazilians don't like leg locks. It's almost disrespectful to go for them. I just think everyone needs to realise that knee attacks/leg attacks are the same as armbars and neck cranks.

If someone gets there neck broken from a badly applied guillotine, then that's bad news right there. Alot more danger in wrenching necks compared to leg locks/knee attacks.

SDTimeout

Rickson1 wrote: »

Yeah I've been training BJJ and kickboxing for four years and have been competing since I started. I've seen shoulders get dislocated, arms being broke and guys getting their necks cranked outta place bad (including myself but it's fine now).

That's the reason there are so strict rules on the knee as you said, Brazilians don't like leg locks. It's almost disrespectful to go for them. I just think everyone needs to realise that knee attacks/leg attacks are the same as armbars and neck cranks.

:P

Barry.Oglesby

Okay Rickson then why aren't there hundreds of paralysis cases every year from judo, wrestling, BJJ etc? How many knee surgeries do you see every year?

r_obric

Rickson1 wrote: »

Yeah I've been training BJJ and kickboxing for four years and have been competing since I started. I've seen shoulders get dislocated, arms being broke and guys getting their necks cranked outta place bad (including myself but it's fine now).

That's the reason there are so strict rules on the knee as you said, Brazilians don't like leg locks. It's almost disrespectful to go for them. I just think everyone needs to realise that knee attacks/leg attacks are the same as armbars and neck cranks.

If someone gets there neck broken from a badly applied guillotine, then that's bad news right there. Alot more danger in wrenching necks compared to leg locks/knee attacks.

If someone gets their neck broken from a guillotine they need to learn how to tap sooner and find better training partners.

Shane Fitz

Rickson1 wrote: »

Yeah I've been training BJJ and kickboxing for four years and have been competing since I started.

You've been competing on the irish scene?

Guess we can expect to see you in the advanced division of the next No Gi comp? How about the re-scheduled Munster Open in May? Where there will be both Gi and No Gi.