Are you one of "The Trophy Generation"??

opinion guy

resus wrote: »

Bottom line, we need to stop fighting amongst ourselves and fight for patients, who need Consultant led care, delivered by properly trained doctors.

Kind of difficult wouldn't you say when you have the consutlant body agreeing to a new consultant position only when 2 nchd's are laid off wouldn't you say ?

Like it or not - in some ways the interests of consultants are diametrically opposed to those of nchd's. And patients.

RobFowl

opinion guy wrote: »

Kind of difficult wouldn't you say when you have the consutlant body agreeing to a new consultant position only when 2 nchd's are laid off wouldn't you say ?

The recruitment of consultants only when 2 Nchd posts were abolished was/is HSE policy and is not part of the consultant contract. You can't blame either the IMO or ICHD (there are 2 consultant bodies not just one) for this.

opinion guy wrote: »

Like it or not - in some ways the interests of consultants are diametrically opposed to those of nchd's. And patients.

In most respects the interests (esp working conditions and contracts) for consultants are closely aligned with the needs and interests of patients and NCHD's. The tone in this post suggests that consultants are some form of parasite :rolleyes:

Vorsprung

resus wrote: »

Define what you mean by seen? Seen directly 1st off, seen as a 2nd opinion during visit, seen in ED clinic as a second opinion on subsequent visit, review of notes, x-ray decisions, etc. etc. etc. ? Not all Consultant work is face-to-face.

But I do take your point, and do wish there were more ED Consultants in the system so that they could come out of the back office and onto the shopfloor (which is what I think you were getting at) more often.

You need 6 persons to cover a 24/7 rota on the shop-floor. How many departments have this? So what about the clinical governance? Depends on numbers, but this is what most consultants spend their time HAVING to do.

Bottom line, we need to stop fighting amongst ourselves and fight for patients, who need Consultant led care, delivered by properly trained doctors.

I work in what is probably the best staffed ED in Queensland.

3 consultants work from 8-1, 3 more from 1-5, and there is one consultant on from 5pm until 8am. That last consultant usually stays till at least 10pm, and hands over to the single night registrar, and often stays till at least midnight. There's 13.5 FTE consultants to cover that roster, and there's talk of hiring another 1.0 FTE!

drzhivago

RobFowl wrote: »

The recruitment of consultants only when 2 Nchd posts were abolished was/is HSE policy and is not part of the consultant contract. You can't blame either the IMO or ICHD (there are 2 consultant bodies not just one) for this.



In most respects the interests (esp working conditions and contracts) for consultants are closely aligned with the needs and interests of patients and NCHD's. The tone in this post suggests that consultants are some form of parasite :rolleyes:

That policy now changed fowl
Its two staff NOT necessarily two NCHDs, so could be admins which caused consternation among them

Also doesnt have to be in same hospital could be within the network region

Traumadoc

Do not think there will be much increase in consultant numbers any time soon, major problem seems to pension liability .
Most hospitals in Australia would have staffing far in excess of what we have here ( except for administration) , orthopaedic department would have 15- 20 consultants and half that number of junior staff. Similar for cardiology a+e etc
46 consultant anaesthetic department.
http://www.sswahs.nsw.gov.au/RPA/Anaesthetics/default.htm
Pay for consultants would be twice that in Ireland in some states.

drzhivago

Traumadoc wrote: »

Do not think there will be much increase in consultant numbers any time soon, major problem seems to pension liability .
Most hospitals in Australia would have staffing far in excess of what we have here ( except for administration) , orthopaedic department would have 15- 20 consultants and half that number of junior staff. Similar for cardiology a+e etc

Pay for consultants would be twice that in Ireland in some states.

Do you speak from experience and if so how does one sign up
what are the restrictions to permanent practice as specialist as opposed to short term practice as locum NCHD

Traumadoc

Plenty of locum work available in certain specialities
Standard rate I think $A 250 (180 €) per hour plus accommodation , flights car etc

http://beatmedical.com/emergency-physician/jobs.htm

stratos_fear

The saddest thing here is the attitude of Chris Luke and his apology to GPs and not NCHDs.

Even more maddening was the letter released by the Mercy that didn't mention him by name but referred to 'media reports' in a real waffling way and gave a vague apology.

Until the likes of Luke start realising that A&E is understaffed for a reason (it is a horrible job, thankless, and A&E staff get nothing but guff from all sides) and they need to incentivise working there I fear little will change.

spagboll

I wonder what Dr. Luke thinks of GEM students? Probably loves us like all the other consultants

Biologic

spagboll wrote: »

I wonder what Dr. Luke thinks of GEM students? Probably loves us like all the other consultants

If he does, it's probably because he knows most of us will be tethered to Ireland and 80 hour weeks by our loans.

Jane5

Well your loans shouldn't tether you to Ireland....if anything you'd make more money and be able to pay them off better by going to Australia!

When I was down under worked for a bit in New Zealand, did two weeks of nights at "relief rates" and was shocked at the amount of money that hit my bank account-I paid off my Irish credit cards in full with it!

NCHDs in Ireland have taken paycuts and tax increases with the rest of the public sector, have lost the training grant which renders you liable for many thousands of euros in training fees and expenses every year, and hospitals have randomly stopped paying overtime-so your 80 hour week won't make you any money anyway. You'll never pay your loans off if you stay, in fact!

Traumadoc

Takehome pay is now about three times the Post tax Irish pay for consultants , and that's before you take the lower cost of living into account.

Pay for non- consultants is now significantly better than is was previously, basic pay when you add penalty rates salary sacrifice seem to be better.

Bella mamma

http://media.newstalk.ie/listenback/221/thursday/2/popup

Thursday June 16th, Part 2, from 35 minutes.

"Community Service"?? Only if Chris Luke is The Probation Officer.

He clearly believes he's "gold dust". Delusions of grandeur? Psych referral?? :cool:

Did he say WHY doctors were leaving? I might have missed that.

take everything

Good article in today's SBP about the NCHD crisis.
Talks about the possibility of Limerick Regional ED closing at night (that sounds a bit mad tbh but there is a severe NCHD shortage there).
Also goes into the reasons why NCHDs are leaving.
Apparently a further shortfall of 400 this July.

Sitric

Do you have a link to that by any chance? Couldn't find it.

Intern Pay has been reduced to 30k. Presumably that means all pay scales are 10% lower for every subsequent year for anyone starting now?

take everything

Sitric wrote: »

Do you have a link to that by any chance? Couldn't find it.

Intern Pay has been reduced to 30k. Presumably that means all pay scales are 10% lower for every subsequent year for anyone starting now?

Couldn't find it online either, just in the paper version.
(something on the sbp site about not putting their stuff up until the following Monday, a bit strange).

opinion guy

Linky 1:
http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ae-hours-slashed-in-new-funding-crisis-57017.html

Linky 2:
http://www.sbpost.ie/news/ireland/hse-attracts-only-30-doctors-from-india-and-pakistan-57012.html

...I wonder how much they spent sending consultants out to Pakistan. Would LOVE to know what class they flew and what kind of hotels they stayed in ?

Linky 3:
http://www.sbpost.ie/news-features/where-have-all-the-young-doctors-gone-56972.html

Traumadoc

I believe they flew economy, lots of us were asked to go, bUt flying economy, staying in crappy hotels and knowing that it was a big waste of time put quite a few of us off.

Why as an Indian graduate would you gamble paying € 5-10K (flights for exam, exam costs, Flights to take up jobs , costs to get started) to get set up here to work for 30K takehome is beyound us

RobFowl

A/c to the SBP article 420 were offered jobs but of that number only 30 have even applied for registration with the medical council (and I'm sure not all those would decide to travel/pass the language exams etc).

Suppose the bottom line is why would you come here for a job with crappy hours , no recognised training and poor pay.

Amnesiac_ie

Chris Luke is on the Frontline tonight along with James Reilly and IMO NCHD and GP reps.

Tweet questions to @rtefrontline via Twitter

Jane5

That NCHD Mark fella is seriously good and made some very very good points. Chris Luke should hang his overmade up head in shame at what he has said.

Jane5

Haha, John Crown is a bit of a legend too "We're not the Cosa Nostra". Brilliant.

opinion guy

I'll have to check this out on rte player

Edit:
Here ya go folks:
http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1101651

opinion guy

I have to say Kenny seems to be reserving particular contempt for the nchd's. Whats that about ?

2Scoops

opinion guy wrote: »

I have to say Kenny seems to be reserving particular contempt for the nchd's. Whats that about ?

Looks like that junior guy rubbed him the wrong way by saying loads of big words trying to sound smart. :pac:

To be fair, Pat has been getting up in people's grills every week on The Frontline. He might just be playing devil's advocate.

Amnesiac_ie

Pat was very pally with his favourite regular analysts and was very rude and unfair to Mark. His little snipe as he cut to commercial was a cheap and thoroughly unjustified dig. Mark and Toby did NCHDs proud last night. James Reilly was frank and showed an understanding of the issues that Mary Harney never did. He impressed me last night and I hope his actions can back up his rhetoric!

opinion guy

Amnesiac_ie wrote: »

Pat was very pally with his favourite regular analysts and was very rude and unfair to Mark. His little snipe as he cut to commercial was a cheap and thoroughly unjustified dig. Mark and Toby did NCHDs proud last night. James Reilly was frank and showed an understanding of the issues that Mary Harney never did. He impressed me last night and I hope his actions can back up his rhetoric!

Agreed - but I'm forced to ask - what has Reilly been doing for three months ? And why is so much change being put on hold till 2016 ?
He's the minister - why can't he just create more consultant posts and gp contracts at the stroke of a pen ?

imported_guy

opinion guy wrote: »

why can't he just create more consultant posts and gp contracts at the stroke of a pen ?

http://tinyurl.com/3pbsrx3

i think this should help

take everything

Amnesiac_ie wrote: »

His little snipe as he cut to commercial was a cheap and thoroughly unjustified dig.

I got the feeling Pat (on his near-1 million a year) just got confused when Mark from the IMO said they're in it for the training not for the money. :pac:

opinion guy

imported_guy wrote: »

http://tinyurl.com/3pbsrx3

i think this should help

Why are you being a wise ass ? I was obviously asking a rhetorical question