Dragon Age 2

humanji

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I think the key issue is the difference between 'streamlining' and 'dumbing down'. I haven't played Dragon Age 2 yet, won't for a while, but IMO Origins could use a hell of a lot of streamlining. The inventory management is a pain, the quest structure rambling and dull, the micromanagement of you companions occasionally frustrating. These are things that could be streamlined. However, being able to outfit your characters is an important tactical asset, so removing it would be bad. They could just do something to speed up the process perhaps. (on a side note, unfortunately the aspects of Dragon Age that most need improving - the painfully generic main setting and childish 'mature' content - are probably beyond improvable)

If, however, all that is good about Origins - the freedom to approach problems being a notable one - is indeed gone, then yes, complain on. Your boards example is 'dumbing down' as opposed to streamlining - streamlining ultimately gets the same basic thing done but better. It's not necessarily cutting features - although some of the superfluous ones may be in the process - but improving them. Going back to ME2 - which isn't perfect, by any stretch - what they improved was how natural the combat felt, and how you could still use your abilities more efficiently and quickly. What I really liked about the game was the characterisation and substories - yeah, occasionally the main plot was fairly dull (in fact, wasn't there only like two or three main story scenes?) but the character payoffs at the end were worth it. It is far from my favourite RPG, although potentially one of my favourite WRPGs - one that combines shooter mechanics and Bioware's design strengths far more effectively than the first.

Again, arguing all this not having played DA2 isn't fair (and a game I'm not that interested in in the first place), just a general opinion of mine on how some gamers online tend to address issues online - sometimes change is good, and the violent hyperbolic rejection after outdated elements are removed can be frustrating. Now, if the change adversely affects the experience, than there's cause for complaint. But as I said archaic elements can sometimes be addressed and streamlined, and the balance is not 'dumbing down' the game in the process or adversely affecting the final product. I'll be curious to hear opinions when people have had more time to settle down with the game though. But developers being forced to keep things the same as they've always been will stifle innovation and gameplay in the long term - there's always room for old school design (Demons' Souls the deserved recent champion of gloriously old-fashioned design), but there are somethings the new school do right too. And if developers can retain their original vision while improving the mechanics, then streamlining is good. If though they can't retain their original vision while destroying the mechanics, then dumbing down is bad.

The problem I see with this game is that the bits that could do with streamlining (the inventory in the first is a perfect example) aren't streamlined at all. They're either removed or changed to a different system. And this can be quite jarring for anyone who has played the original. It's almost like they got a list of everyone's problems with the first game, but didn't put any thought into how to fix them properly.

All the areas are about 3 times bigger than in the original, but there's nothing in them. There's lots more named NPC's, but you can only talk to them when they've got a quest to give you. The awkward inventory system is changed to a different, awkward system.

And there's the UI. I really don't understand why they decided to go with a futuristic style. It doesn't make a lick of sense. The first game's "Tome" that held your character info and all information you find, is gone. Now it's just disembodied info on a black background. If it weren't for the names of people and places, you'd swear this was completely unrelated to the first game.

I honestly don't see any of this as streamlining. I see it as trying to aim it at the Mass Effect 2 market. Even the combat is pretty much the same as ME2. This in itself I have no problem with. But I wanted a sequel to Dragon Age: Origins. What I got was ME2 in a fantasy setting.

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

just wondering i have been trying to source the signature edition but to put it like this have any of u guys played the full game? is it a let down? should i just buy the ultimate edition of dragon age origins?

If you haven't played the original, don't bother with this yet and get the Ultimate Edition of DA:O. There's characters and events in the sequel that you won't understand and it'd make more sense, and mean more to you if you play the first one first. By the time you get through DA:O, DA2 will be on sale, so you'll be able to save a bit.

Auvers

just played a couple of hours and uninstalled it already, yet another excellent title gets consolized

Dragon Age is now dead to me

long live The Witcher 2

Mr Freeze

4 hours into the game now, and I am enjoying it.

It is definitely a pity that it has become a streamlined version of Origins. Not happy that I can't put my Blood Dragon Armour on some of the other warriors in my party, it like many items are restricted to Hawke, and I'm playing a mage now, a 1st for me in an RPG, so no armour for me.

Anyone try redeem any of these pre-order codes on the Bioware site, I keep getting code is invalid, I have double\triple checked and the codes are correct, maybe its because the game isn't out until tomorrow, I can try redeem them again then. I bloody hate redeeming codes for games, such a load of b*ll*cks.

humanji

I'd say it's a case that the game is properly released, so the servers won't autheticate the codes. They should be fine tomorrow.

Jim

CKWPORT wrote: »

and I'm playing a mage now, a 1st for me in an RPG,

I'm pretty much going to do the same thing. In almost every RPG (especially ones with choices) I always play a melee character, male, apperance like mine as much as possible and always pick the choices "I" would make.

Since they seem to have totally ruined the character immersion and a lot of other things in the game I liked from the first one (streamlined, dumbed down, whatever) I'm just gonna play a female mage and pick the "evil" choices. Make the game a bit of a new experience.

Mr Freeze

I don't think they ruined the character immersion in DA2, I think its an improvement, for me there wasn't much immersion with the player character in Origins as the main character didn't speak, thats a real pain for me in games.

I much prefer the way the conversations are done in DA2, its like Mass Effect, but instead of a neutral response it is usually witty or sarcastic, so I find it hard not to select those at 1st, then near the end of the conversation select the aggressive responses.

Sephiroth_dude

Did they break the release date?seems alot of people have it

Jim

CKWPORT wrote: »

I don't think they ruined the character immersion in DA2, I think its an improvement, for me there wasn't much immersion with the player character in Origins as the main character didn't speak, thats a real pain for me in games.

I much prefer the way the conversations are done in DA2, its like Mass Effect, but instead of a neutral response it is usually witty or sarcastic, so I find it hard not to select those at 1st, then near the end of the conversation select the aggressive responses.

See, I totally disagree. Character having a voice ruins it for me. Instead of the character being "me" he's just some dude I'm controlling. I also find the new "good / bad" responses really bland and boring. Barely matters what you say, they may as well just have "Good" and "Bad" written there instead of the dialogue.

But you enjoy it one way, I enjoy it another. Not much point in arguing about it.

Jim

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

Did they break the release date?seems alot of people have it

Lots of people got it early from online shops delivering early as well as those who downloaded it.

Sephiroth_dude

Jim wrote: »

Lots of people got it early from online shops delivering early as well as those who downloaded it.

oh...so gamestop/game haven't released it early then?

Mr Freeze

Jim wrote: »

See, I totally disagree. Character having a voice ruins it for me. Instead of the character being "me" he's just some dude I'm controlling. I also find the new "good / bad" responses really bland and boring. Barely matters what you say, they may as well just have "Good" and "Bad" written there instead of the dialogue.

But you enjoy it one way, I enjoy it another. Not much point in arguing about it.

I totally understand where you are coming from.
No argument here.

Jim

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

oh...so gamestop/game haven't released it early then?

Not afaik. Few of my mates have been successful with getting Argos to accidentially break street dates by going in, writing down the code from the catalogue and bringing it to the till.

Worth a shot if you're desperate :pac:

Gummy Panda

Sephiroth_dude wrote: »

oh...so gamestop/game haven't released it early then?

EA store also gave a headstart to pc buyers

Sephiroth_dude

Jim wrote: »

Not afaik. Few of my mates have been successful with getting Argos to accidentially break street dates by going in, writing down the code from the catalogue and bringing it to the till.

Worth a shot if you're desperate :pac:

Nah I'm not that desperate :pac:,I played the demo last night and actually quite enjoyed it,found the fighting much easier than in dragon age,could not get use to that,its definitely dumbed though,I dunno will I bother with it at all.7gigs on the hard drive is all it requires?

johnny_ultimate

humanji wrote: »

The problem I see with this game is that the bits that could do with streamlining (the inventory in the first is a perfect example) aren't streamlined at all. They're either removed or changed to a different system. And this can be quite jarring for anyone who has played the original. It's almost like they got a list of everyone's problems with the first game, but didn't put any thought into how to fix them properly.

All the areas are about 3 times bigger than in the original, but there's nothing in them. There's lots more named NPC's, but you can only talk to them when they've got a quest to give you. The awkward inventory system is changed to a different, awkward system.

And there's the UI. I really don't understand why they decided to go with a futuristic style. It doesn't make a lick of sense. The first game's "Tome" that held your character info and all information you find, is gone. Now it's just disembodied info on a black background. If it weren't for the names of people and places, you'd swear this was completely unrelated to the first game.

I honestly don't see any of this as streamlining. I see it as trying to aim it at the Mass Effect 2 market. Even the combat is pretty much the same as ME2. This in itself I have no problem with. But I wanted a sequel to Dragon Age: Origins. What I got was ME2 in a fantasy setting.

If the game indeed has been made 'worse' I can't disagree that some gamers are angry. It's more a frustration that the internet tends to be send into a tizzy when change is merely suggested, which is something that always irks me When the game has been played and people can stand back and say "yeah, the changes are bad", then I have no problem!

Taking the inventory again, awkward, unwieldy ones in the likes of Dragon Age and Oblivion - often with frustrating weight limits - are one feature of RPGs that are a necessity, but integrated badly in many cases. For an example of a streamlined inventory system that doesn't lose the joys of looting, take Torchlight. While you're still straddled with a limited inventory, the inspired feature of having your pet be able to return to town to sell unwanted items at any time is brilliant streamlining - none of the strengths are lost, dungeon crawling can continue uninterrupted and time is saved. Inventory management is still time consuming (some may say frustrating) but it's significantly streamlined. It's things like that that genuinely benefit the player and flow of the gameplay that need changing. If reports that DA2 has been dumbed down are true, then yeah fair enough. But the fact that many will dismiss 'streamlining' straight off because of attachment to some outdated gameplay mechanics is what can be disappointing. While change in this case may have been bad, it isn't always IMO

Dcully

Was so looking forward to this, i loved DAO but after giving the demo another play through its far to much of a hack and slash now for my liking, feels and plays like a console game YUCK!!!
From being a dead cert purchase for me when announced DA2 has gone to a non purchase.

calex71

Dcully wrote: »

Was so looking forward to this, i loved DAO but after giving the demo another play through its far to much of a hack and slash now for my liking, feels and plays like a console game YUCK!!!
From being a dead cert purchase for me when announced DA2 has gone to a non purchase.

Had another go this morning myself. Spent over 10 minutes running in circles as a mage trying to kill the Ogre and his pals and not even making a dent in him as the rest of the party had died. Reason I switched to the mage was because I got bored of hitting A repeatedly as Hawk and not doing any damage either. When I do get this I'll be setting it to easy to spare my A button

Think I'll give torchlight demo a look.

Praetorian

I'm a few hours into it, and I'm definitely impressed with the story and the graphics (high res pack), and the voice acting. Buggy as hell though, I'm ending task constantly, I hope it's not just me!!!

Sephiroth_dude

Praetorian wrote: »

Buggy as hell though, I'm ending task constantly, I hope it's not just me!!!

What do you mean?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

task manager> right click> end task

Praetorian

Yep, why I'm back here again

Why do we always have to wait for a patch for reliability!

Oooh, the dalish are irish, were they irish the last time as well?

Sephiroth_dude

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

task manager> right click> end task

ahhhhh I get ya now

DARK-KNIGHT

calex71 wrote: »

Had another go this morning myself. Spent over 10 minutes running in circles as a mage trying to kill the Ogre and his pals and not even making a dent in him as the rest of the party had died. Reason I switched to the mage was because I got bored of hitting A repeatedly as Hawk and not doing any damage either. When I do get this I'll be setting it to easy to spare my A button

Think I'll give torchlight demo a look.

Trick is to leg it away from ogre then smaller enemies will follow beat seven shades out of them then go back to ogre and hack his ass up lol

DARK-KNIGHT

Dcully wrote: »

Was so looking forward to this, i loved DAO but after giving the demo another play through its far to much of a hack and slash now for my liking, feels and plays like a console game YUCK!!!
From being a dead cert purchase for me when announced DA2 has gone to a non purchase.

I thought we were over xbox v ps3 v Wii v pc discussion?? ZZZZZ

Jim

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

I thought we were over xbox v ps3 v Wii v pc discussion?? ZZZZZ

Pretty sure he was just saying he prefers when games are designed for PC rather than console and not trying to start a debate.

DARK-KNIGHT

Jim wrote: »

Pretty sure he was just saying he prefers when games are designed for PC rather than console and not trying to start a debate.

i know jim im just joking lol

Dcully

Jim wrote: »

Pretty sure he was just saying he prefers when games are designed for PC rather than console and not trying to start a debate.

Spot on good sir.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

nah, im pretty sure he meant that everyone that owns a console is a homosexual who has sexual fantasies about their co-gendered parent

Jim

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

nah, im pretty sure he meant that everyone that owns a console is a homosexual who has sexual fantasies about their co-gendered parent

There's no STALKER in this thread for you.

Sephiroth_dude

Has anyone that got it early finished it yet?how many hrs worth of gameplay is it?