...Election.........and motor tax.....

galwaytt

..back in advance of last budget, I made written submission to DoE, DoF, and DoT on the issue of motor tax, and it's various injustices, as well as a methods of making it fairer.

Naturally, it got ignored.

But I did cc it to my local Senator at the time, Ciarán Cannon, and it in turn got to Simon Coveney.
They made sympathetic noises - well, they would, wouldn't they ?

Anyhoo, imagine my surprise when Leo Varadkar on last night's VB show put it out that FG were putting VAT up to 23%. Did you see that on a poster near you, lately ?

So, I decided, to do a spot of reading, specifically, this: http://www.finegael2011.com/pdf/LessWasteLowerTaxesStrongerGrowth.pdf

And, lo and behold, there, on page 24, writ large as life, is said increase in VAT.

But, and here's the kicker: one line down, is the proposal to increase Motor Tax on CO2 rated cars, and all cc-based cars under 2000cc, by €50. For large (read: old) car owner's though, the increase on higher rated CO2 cars, and all cc-based cars over 2000cc by an extra €100 !!

So, welcome to 1666 p.a. for 3.0 and over et al.

And, another 2% VAT on petrol ?

FFS - are they really that ignorant........? This country is so completely fukced it's not funny.

Owen

I'm disappointed. Following my thread, where I pretty much agreed with you on everything, I wrote to the various parties potential Ministers for Transport. Simon Coveney wrote back, saying that he felt the current system was broken and needed an overhaul, akin to the person who pollutes the most, pays the most - alluding the a tax added to the fuel instead of a motor tax we currently have. This link just rubbishes any hope I'd built up

Voodoomelon

Oh my sweet jesus...
I feel a bit sick.

galwaytt

..well go back and make some noise about it: I've posted my comment on the VAT, here: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/ciaran.cannon

I'm going to find Simon Coveney's site next........

...come on people, time to 'pull an Egypt'..........:mad:

vectra

Well then..Do not put Fine Gael in then

hinault

VAT is due to go up to 23% in 2012 under the 4 year austerity plan agreed with the EU/IMF last November.

FG are simply following that same plan.

Voodoomelon

galwaytt wrote: »

..well go back and make some noise about it: I've posted my comment on the VAT, here: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/ciaran.cannon

I'm going to find Simon Coveney's site next........

...come on people, time to 'pull an Egypt'..........:mad:

You have to be "friends" with him to post. I'll write a letter instead.

galwaytt

Voodoomelon wrote: »

You have to be "friends" with him to post. I'll write a letter instead.

...become a 'friend' - he hasn't refused one yet !

VolvoMan

I wasn't going to vote for Fine Gael because I thought that Enda Kenny was a fcuktard, but they're definitely not getting my vote now.

n97 mini

Colm McCarthy (Bord Snip Nua) said on the radio recently that we will be borrowing at least €19 billion this year, yet the government is calling it 'austerity'.

i.e. we aint seen nothing yet.

VolvoMan

VolvoMan wrote: »

I wasn't going to vote for Fine Gael because I thought that Enda Kenny was a fcuktard, but they're definitely not getting my vote now.

My favourite word ! An extra 100 to tax the zt so, well if the link is correct its an extra 50 over anything else, less than a euro a week. It's a lot less then the mess ff have us in. Has to be fg or labour for me, best of a bad bunch, ff will be back inafter at most 4 years though. It's sad when the motor tax and petrol shafting is small when compared to the usc etc, thought I'd have a strip club by now, tut tut.

hinault

n97 mini wrote: »

Colm McCarthy (Bord Snip Nua) said on the radio recently that we will be borrowing at least €19 billion this year, yet the government is calling it 'austerity'.

i.e. we aint seen nothing yet.

They've got to raise taxes in order to repay the bank/sovereign debt.

And they've got to decrease public expenditure in order to reduce €19b deficit between
(tax) receipts and (public) expenditure.

puppetmaster

Motor tax is gone out of control, they put it up every year and the greens/FF have put tax on a litre of petrol up by 19cent in the last 18months or so. 4.2 billion a year (circa) the exchequer gets from motorists. I wont take away the great motorway building by them..... oh no wait they tolled most of them, including rising the toll on the STATE (tax payer) owned M50 , so i will. how can any of it be justified, i know the country "has alot more to worry about" but it all adds up!!

galwaytt

ok, well I've rattled off a missive to Messrs Cannon, Coveney and the Policy Unit at FG.

Oh, and changed my vote on the boards.ie GE poll as well.

ardmacha

Well if you don;t want a lot of extra motoring taxes then indicate your support to candidates for other forms of taxes and charges, property taxes, income taxes, university fees or whatever.

This forum is full of people objecting to one tax, but without any real plan to get the revenue elsewhere except vague nonsense about taxing the rich or reducing TDs expenses.

galwaytt

hinault wrote: »

They've got to raise taxes in order to repay the bank/sovereign debt.

And they've got to decrease public expenditure in order to reduce €19b deficit between
(tax) receipts and (public) expenditure.

The / symbol means "or". So, it's Bank "or" Sovereign debt.

We don't HAVE to pay the Bank debt - it had nothing to do with us, the public or State, so no, you don't raise taxes for that. Fcuk the banks.
Decrease expenditure, fine. But you can't keep going back to a well that's dry.

hinault

galwaytt wrote: »

The / symbol means "or". So, it's Bank "or" Sovereign debt.

We don't HAVE to pay the Bank debt - it had nothing to do with us, the public or State, so no, you don't raise taxes for that. Fcuk the banks.
Decrease expenditure, fine. But you can't keep going back to a well that's dry.

Unfortunately a lot of taxes, both direct and by stealth, have been introduced to deal with the various debts besetting this State currently and in to the future.

I take your point about the bank debts...........but Mr Lenihan put the tab for that on the citizens of this State.
It is annoying I agree.

However it is important to remember who it was that put us in to this mess.

Voodoomelon

They should be raising CO2 based cars tax by €250 and reducing 2000cc+ cars by €100. Same net difference.

Matt Simis

vectra wrote: »

Well then..Do not put Fine Gael in then

FF got us here.
Labour want to take away my dogs and terminate them and put a cap on "private salary" (?)
FG want to increase motor tax and have a leader so uncharismatic he is hated before actually been given the chance to screw up.
Crap choices all round.


The thing about increasing motortax, especially on CO2 stuff is everyone expects it anyhow. I would imagine whatever party takes hold of the sinking ship will need Tax increases all round, its not a FG thing per say.

Atlantic Dawn

Shocking to raise it again.

Another big one I notice is they will ban below cost selling of alcohol

Extra VAT yield from banning below cost selling of alcohol

on page 24.

cadaliac

ardmacha wrote: »

Well if you don;t want a lot of extra motoring taxes then indicate your support to candidates for other forms of taxes and charges, property taxes, income taxes, university fees or whatever.

This forum is full of people objecting to one tax, but without any real plan to get the revenue elsewhere except vague nonsense about taxing the rich or reducing TDs expenses.

+1
Unfortunately, this is the truth. There is going to be pain and everyone knows it. Where it comes from is the debate.

coolbeans

There's not a chance I'll be bringing up motor tax to any of the electoral candidates. Let's get this into perspective. The country is literally and figuratively bankrupt. We've got a real rate of around 19% unemployment which is massaged by the equally scary emigration figures. An entire generation will be lost to the shores of more competently governed nations. We spend, or at least did spend similar amounts as the Dutch, a country with at least double our population, on health care for a damn poor service and a penitentiary service the Nigerians would be ashamed of .
The countryside is blighted by over development, ghost estates and god awful McMansions the cumulative effect of which severely retards our ability to reinvigorate the tourist industry as the landscape is now so severely scarred.
We have the highest sovereign debt of the developed nations, and don't kid yourself, it's sovereign now. No developed country has fallen so far, so fast and we're on here whining about motor taxes. It's often said that country's get the governments they deserve and from what I've seen so far I'm inclined to agree. If you're pissed off do something. Get out there, protest make a difference but don't for the love of God moan about a paltry increase motor tax. The country is broke and we all have to pay for it. We elected them, and if you personally didn't then your inaction in the face of such a calamity amounts to tacit approval.
Motor tax. FFS!

mcwhirter

cadaliac wrote: »

+1
Unfortunately, this is the truth. There is going to be pain and everyone knows it. Where it comes from is the debate.

'Life isn't like a bowl of roses' as my great aunt used to say.

Well sod that, it is if you want it to be, Ireland is a miserable little country to be in at the moment.

You have to live your life and not let those political policies get you down.

pajo1981

Blame the dickheads who bought property they couldn't afford.
Blame the dickheads who thought they'd try their hand at being landlords.
Blame the dickheads who borrowed money to develop property for all of the other dickheads.
Blame the dickheads who provided them all with the money.

Their dept is now our dept. Get used to paying it back, I'm afraid.

Ardent

coolbeans wrote: »

There's not a chance I'll be bringing up motor tax to any of the electoral candidates. Let's get this into perspective. The country is literally and figuratively bankrupt. We've got a real rate of around 19% unemployment which is massaged by the equally scary emigration figures. An entire generation will be lost to the shores of more competently governed nations. We spend, or at least did spend similar amounts as the Dutch, a country with at least double our population, on health care for a damn poor service and a penitentiary service the Nigerians would be ashamed of .
The countryside is blighted by over development, ghost estates and god awful McMansions the cumulative effect of which severely retards our ability to reinvigorate the tourist industry as the landscape is now so severely scarred.
We have the highest sovereign debt of the developed nations, and don't kid yourself, it's sovereign now. No developed country has fallen so far, so fast and we're on here whining about motor taxes. It's often said that country's get the governments they deserve and from what I've seen so far I'm inclined to agree. If you're pissed off do something. Get out there, protest make a difference but don't for the love of God moan about a paltry increase motor tax. The country is broke and we all have to pay for it. We elected them, and if you personally didn't then your inaction in the face of such a calamity amounts to tacit approval.
Motor tax. FFS!

Well said, a bit of perspective was sorely needed on this thread.

Also, how Fianna Fail always escapes blame from some quarters is beyond me!

Kersh

But this is MOTORS forum. For dicussing motoring things and things that affect motoring. The country is fuked, but sure, thats being discussed in politics, and afterhours ad nauseum.

Its nice to see what out future government proposes to do about motor tax. Simples.

Owen

coolbeans wrote: »

Motor tax. FFS!

Ah, but here's the thing. It's currently estimated that 1 in 4 cars in Dublin is out of tax, and 1 in 2 are out of tax outside the Pale. People simply can't afford it anymore. It was a lot of money when people had the good times, it's OTT now that people have smaller wage packets, higher mortgages, and are even on the dole.

If they brought Motor Tax down to a morally acceptable level, people would find the necessary funds, and it would result in more overall money in the exchequer. Not even that, but it would give people a little teensy bit more cashflow to go out and buy things thereby getting the wheels of the economy turning again.

'But if they can't afford to tax the car, they should change it for a smaller one' - well that doesn't work either. Unfortunately, it costs money to change a car, and for a lot of people with kids, downsizing simply isn't an option if they're to have 7 seats, etc.

Motor Tax in this country is obscene. Always has been, even before the Greens brought in the 'reward those able to afford new cars with low tax, keep the poor poorer' system in 08. IMHO, average motor tax price should be 300 Euro for anything up to a 2 litre in the old system, with a max ceiling of 600 Euro for the luxobarges. That's affordable for people, and would boost morale which is badly badly needed in this country.

Guy:Incognito

Voodoomelon wrote: »

They should be raising CO2 based cars tax by €250 and reducing 2000cc+ cars by €100. Same net difference.

The idea is to raise revenue, not piss off a few people and make a different bunch happy while revenue stays the same.

Ardent wrote: »

Also, how Fianna Fail always escapes blame from some quarters is beyond me!

Theres plenty of side absolvign themselves of blame and sayign everythign is FF's fault too. Nobody wants to take the blame for anything. It's always someone elses fault.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Ah, but here's the thing. It's currently estimated that 1 in 4 cars in Dublin is out of tax, and 1 in 2 are out of tax outside the Pale. People simply can't afford it anymore. .

It's very easy to throw about that peopel cant afford it. Sure theres plenty that cant but theres also plenty that just use the excuse, when the reality is they are not willign to cut back on something else that they might not really need in order to pay motor tax.

coolbeans

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Ah, but here's the thing. It's currently estimated that 1 in 4 cars in Dublin is out of tax, and 1 in 2 are out of tax outside the Pale. People simply can't afford it anymore. It was a lot of money when people had the good times, it's OTT now that people have smaller wage packets, higher mortgages, and are even on the dole.

If they brought Motor Tax down to a morally acceptable level, people would find the necessary funds, and it would result in more overall money in the exchequer. Not even that, but it would give people a little teensy bit more cashflow to go out and buy things thereby getting the wheels of the economy turning again.

'But if they can't afford to tax the car, they should change it for a smaller one' - well that doesn't work either. Unfortunately, it costs money to change a car, and for a lot of people with kids, downsizing simply isn't an option if they're to have 7 seats, etc.

Motor Tax in this country is obscene. Always has been, even before the Greens brought in the 'reward those able to afford new cars with low tax, keep the poor poorer' system in 08. IMHO, average motor tax price should be 300 Euro for anything up to a 2 litre in the old system, with a max ceiling of 600 Euro for the luxobarges. That's affordable for people, and would boost morale which is badly badly needed in this country.

There's no scope at all for reduced taxes, quite the opposite in fact. Campaigning for reduced motor tax is not only futile but relatively unimportant in the greater scheme of things.

Owen

No one has been campaigning for reduced taxes. We want a fairer system than what is in place. It's a very different thing.

Owen

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It's very easy to throw about that peopel cant afford it. Sure theres plenty that cant but theres also plenty that just use the excuse, when the reality is they are not willign to cut back on something else that they might not really need in order to pay motor tax.

Cut back on what? I think you're a bit removed from the reality that there are people out there are really struggling to come up with food for the table each week.

Guy:Incognito

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Cut back on what? I think you're a bit removed from the reality that there are people out there are really struggling to come up with food for the table each week.

Did you read what I said? Maybe have another go.

Either way, if you cant afford to tax a car, you cant afford a car. "having" to have a 2nd car to brign the kids to school is not a good enough excuse. Most of use got by just fine years ago.


As for the "system tp keep the poor poor" rubbish.They didnt suddenly put old cars on some new super expensive tax system, they are on the same system they always were, the same system as when the people bought the cars knowing full well what they are paying. There have been thousands of cars changing hands since 08 that are on the old system that cost more than a new car on the new system, but peopel are choosing that becuse they want the car they want.




Jesus Christ, the level of moaning at all levels is getting annoying at this stage. You'd swear it was the first recession or the first bit of hardship the country has ever had. Just because we were richer than we ever were resulting in a further drop this time doesnt mean it's the famine again. The country on a whole is still much better off than it was in the 80's and many years before that. The fact that theres so many people around giving out about how poverty stricken they are on the internet is a good sign of that. Maybe when we are all livign in 2 bed houses with familes of 8-10 kids and a genuine struggle to feed them from week to week we can have somethign proper to moan about.

Owen

Just sitting down to dinner, so I can't get into a big long reply - but you musn't get out of Tallaght much. A car is a necessity outside Dublin, even for getting to the shops in rural areas.

And yes, the new system is morally corrupt. It punishes people doing 4k miles a year, in a cheap car to pay a high rate of rax, whole those fortunate enough to be able to afford a new car, get token road tax of 156 euro a year (On average) despite racking up 40k miles a year. So the rich get a new car, cheap tax even though they damage the road and the environment more, and the poor ... well, tough lads. Keep paying those expensive motor tax bills. It's for the good of the country - don't you know we need to keep raising tax on the old cars cause the country is bankrupt and someone needs to pay - just not those who can afford new cars, we wouldn't dream of taxing the rich any further.

Guy:Incognito

PaintDoctor wrote: »

And yes, the new system is morally corrupt. It punishes people doing 4k miles a year, in a cheap car to pay a high rate of rax, whole those fortunate enough to be able to afford a new car, get token road tax of 156 euro a year (On average) despite racking up 40k miles a year. So the rich get a new car, cheap tax even though they damage the road and the environment more, and the poor ... well, tough lads. Keep paying those expensive motor tax bills. It's for the good of the country - don't you know we need to keep raising tax on the old cars cause the country is bankrupt and someone needs to pay - just not those who can afford new cars, we wouldn't dream of taxing the rich any further.

Forget this "us against them "metalitiy. If the new system was never brought in, you'd (as in everyone) would still be paying the rate they are paying

As for having to be rich to buy a new car, New cars can be got for 8-9k . Plenty of peopel have an attitude of " I woudlnt drive a small car" . As I already said, theres plenty of peopel buying cars on the old rate for more than the cost of a new car.Thats a choice.

Look at the amounf of cars being bought on the scrappage scheme. Were they all the canny rich folk holdign on to old cars in the hope of a scrappage scheme and cheap tax one day?My mother bought a new car on the scrappage scheme with money she got from being made redundant. Is she rich?

Eric Cartman

ardmacha wrote: »

Well if you don;t want a lot of extra motoring taxes then indicate your support to candidates for other forms of taxes and charges, property taxes, income taxes, university fees or whatever.

This forum is full of people objecting to one tax, but without any real plan to get the revenue elsewhere except vague nonsense about taxing the rich or reducing TDs expenses.

simple
dont increase motor tax - give less money to traffic core
dont increase tax on fuel - kill bike to work scheme
leave the scrappage scheme - get rid of some useless civil servants

in a slightly more serious note (although im only joking a little with the above) the irish motorist cannot be hurt any more , its too expensive to run , buy and insure a car, the cars that the rest of us who are still working need to get to work, we cant all live inside the m50 ring and public transport is sh*te

Owen

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

As for having to be rich to buy a new car, New cars can be got for 8-9k . Plenty of peopel have an attitude of " I woudlnt drive a small car" . As I already said, theres plenty of peopel buying cars on the old rate for more than the cost of a new car.Thats a choice.

No, it's not. And you're a great man for simplfying everything, and applying everything to your own situation. It's not an attitude of 'I wouldn't drive a small car' - tell that to a family that needs a 7 seater. Where's the 8 or 9k going to come from anyway?

You need to leave Dublin and see the reality of living outside a public transport network, and you need to leave the 'sure 8 or 9k is cheap' mentality behind. People don't have 8 or 9 hundred, let alone thousand. I certainly don't.

mikom

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Maybe when we are all livign in 2 bed houses with familes of 8-10 kids

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

New cars can be got for 8-9k . ?

Does not compute.

Guy:Incognito

PaintDoctor wrote: »

No, it's not. And you're a great man for simplfying everything, and applying everything to your own situation. It's not an attitude of 'I wouldn't drive a small car' - tell that to a family that needs a 7 seater. Where's the 8 or 9k going to come from anyway?

You need to leave Dublin and see the reality of living outside a public transport network, and you need to leave the 'sure 8 or 9k is cheap' mentality behind. People don't have 8 or 9 hundred, let alone thousand. I certainly don't.

You can hardly pull me up on simplifying things. You broadly throw out that everyone buying new cars are rich.


Where did I say "sure 8 or 9k is cheap"? I was quit clear in what I said and thats that people are regularly spending more than the cost of a new small car on a 2nd car on the old tax system.

I have 2 vehicles at the moment. A 97 Peugeot Expert van that I got for nothing and is worht less than that and a 00 Xantia thats sitting in my garden because I cant afford to run it. I dont bitch and moan about the price of tax on a car that I knew full well about when I bought it. It's not like I'm crivign around in a bloody Ferrari.

Theres cheap cars knocking aorund in all classes for people to buy.

Owen

The easiest way for any new potential Government to raise revenue, is to scrap the existing system, and add a surcharge to fuel. It's by far the fairest system. There'd never be such a thing as an untaxed car, those who drive more, and pollute more, pay more. It's the simplest, most straightforward method - and like putting a few extra pence on the price of the pint, would be much better for our wonderful Government to implement - easier too, as you could do away with all the civil servants who sit there manually processing tax discs in every county too.

Guy:Incognito

mikom wrote: »

Does not compute.

What do you mean? Whats one got to do with the other?

The first quote was in relation to the way the country was 40 or 50 years ago when there was **** all . Most peoples view of having **** all nowadays is a lot different to back then and the thoughts of 4 or 5 kids sharing a bedroom now would be looked on like a breach of himan rights.

the 2nd part was a statement that new cars can be bought for as little as €8k . I dotn see the confusion.

Owen

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Where did I say "sure 8 or 9k is cheap"?

Right about here :

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

As for having to be rich to buy a new car, New cars can be got for 8-9k .

I was quit clear in what I said and thats that people are regularly spending more than the cost of a new small car on a 2nd car on the old tax system.

Well, you're assuming that people are actually taxing their cars. Which they're clearly not as I've said before. Which = lost revenue for the Government.

No one's arguing that Motor Tax is evil and has to be done away with. What we're arguing about, is the current system is retarded. It allows people to go untaxed, it allows people to drive 2 litre cars doing 40k miles and pay very little even though they rip up the roads, and allows others to drive cars with the same engines doing 4k miles and pay 6 times as much.

We're just suggesting, that the Govenment try a new form of revenue raising, which will eliminate unneccessary staff, administration costs, time wasted by the Gardaí checking if cars are untaxed, and allow those who use a big car for family purposes but only do tiny mileage to pay as they go. It's the fairest system by far.

Guy:Incognito

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The easiest way for any new potential Government to raise revenue, is to scrap the existing system, and add a surcharge to fuel. It's by far the fairest system. There'd never be such a thing as an untaxed car, those who drive more, and pollute more, pay more. It's the simplest, most straightforward method - and like putting a few extra pence on the price of the pint, would be much better for our wonderful Government to implement - easier too, as you could do away with all the civil servants who sit there manually processing tax discs in every county too.

So why not lobby those things instead of silly arguement about "the rich getting richer". I cant see large numbers of peopel objecting to that other than petrol station owners near the border who will be decimated.

Guy:Incognito

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Right about here :


.

You made the jump there yourself. I would consider 8-9k a good price for a brand new car and think it to be within the reach of working class people. How that equates to being rich I dont know.

Owen

*bangs head off wall* That is what we've been lobbying against. It's complimentary to the other argument of pre 08 vs post 08 cars - it levels all of that stuff out. Search back through this forum, I've already had threads on this, and have been emailing the various parties.

Owen

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

think it to be within the reach of working class people.

Working class families at the moment can't reach for fuel for their cars, let alone 8 or 9k for a replacement car, just because you think they should get one. You need to get out and see the abject poverty that actually is out there at the moment, and go talk to unemployed people.

Guy:Incognito

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Working class families at the moment can't reach for fuel for their cars, let alone 8 or 9k for a replacement car, just because you think they should get one. You need to get out and see the abject poverty that actually is out there at the moment, and go talk to unemployed people.

Where did I say they should get one? You cannot argue that it's not a good price for a brand new car.


and I am one of those unemployed people.

Eric Cartman

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You made the jump there yourself. I would consider 8-9k a good price for a brand new car and think it to be within the reach of working class people. How that equates to being rich I dont know.

it is, if you think about it , 5 year loan (probably how long the car would be kept too) would be about 150 a month / 38 euro a week , easily affordably to most working people , and possibly people on the dole if they dont have a family to look after, new cars arent just for rich people

JerCotter7

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You made the jump there yourself. I would consider 8-9k a good price for a brand new car and think it to be within the reach of working class people. How that equates to being rich I dont know.

If people are going to spend 8-9k on a car for cheap tax wouldn't they just save money by taxing the car they have.

And your argument about buying pre 08 cars for that price is flawed. Because a new car for 8-9k will be tiny and have very flimsy interiors and very little comfort. So if they don't need a big car fair enough but a lot of people living in the country need a bigger car even if to just bring kids/shopping.

Owen

So instead of just adding 10c (Based on figures another boardsie did a few weeks back) on to the price of fuel, every car being taxed, saving money on admin staff, premises, Gardaí time, and actually raising revenue by having every mile driven in this country powered by Dinosaur juice including the price of Motor Tax in the price of fuel posters here would recommend people get into Debt, or stop driving, or get a job, or change their car - oh, and ignore the increases of tax that are coming. It's only another 1 or 2 Euro a week, nothing to see here, move along.

Common sense, doesn't appear to be very common anymore.

mikom

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Maybe when we are all livign in 2 bed houses with familes of 8-10 kids

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

New cars can be got for 8-9k . ?

mikom wrote: »

Does not compute.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What do you mean? Whats one got to do with the other?

The first quote was in relation to the way the country was 40 or 50 years ago when there was **** all . Most peoples view of having **** all nowadays is a lot different to back then and the thoughts of 4 or 5 kids sharing a bedroom now would be looked on like a breach of himan rights.

the 2nd part was a statement that new cars can be bought for as little as €8k . I dotn see the confusion.

This ...

JerCotter7 wrote: »

And your argument about buying pre 08 cars for that price is flawed. Because a new car for 8-9k will be tiny and have very flimsy interiors and very little comfort. So if they don't need a big car fair enough but a lot of people living in the country need a bigger car even if to just bring kids/shopping.

Come out to the country sometime Guy.

Guy:Incognito

JerCotter7 wrote: »

If people are going to spend 8-9k on a car for cheap tax wouldn't they just save money by taxing the car they have..

Nobody said anything about changing the car just to get reduced tax.The arguement was that you dont have to be rich to do so.

And your argument about buying pre 08 cars for that price is flawed. Because a new car for 8-9k will be tiny and have very flimsy interiors and very little comfort. So if they don't need a big car fair enough but a lot of people living in the country need a bigger car even if to just bring kids/shopping.[/QUOTE]

Have you been in a new Clio/Yaris etc?

Unless peopel have more people than seats then the "need" for a bigger car is subjective. This is similar to the thread a coupel of weeks ago where peopel have this view or Germany and the autobahn where everyone is drivign S classes and millign aroudn at 150mph. The reality is small cars are perfectly adequate.

mikom wrote: »

Come out to the country sometime Guy.

Iv'e spent plenty of time in Germany living with a mid 90's fiesta. Thats for everything. Autobahn driving, country and mountain drives, everything. Theres still a sense of entitlement and looking down the nose floatign about this country.

And you taking 2 quotes that have nothing to do with each other to make some sort of point is irrelevant. My 2 posts may as well have been in seperate threads for the relevance they have to each other.