...Election.........and motor tax.....

JerCotter7

PaintDoctor wrote: »

So instead of just adding 10c (Based on figures another boardsie did a few weeks back) on to the price of fuel, every car being taxed, saving money on admin staff, premises, Gardaí time, and actually raising revenue by having every mile driven in this country powered by Dinosaur juice including the price of Motor Tax in the price of fuel posters here would recommend people get into Debt, or stop driving, or get a job, or change their car - oh, and ignore the increases of tax that are coming. It's only another 1 or 2 Euro a week, nothing to see here, move along.

Common sense, doesn't appear to be very common anymore.

But you know they wont add 10c. More like 20c while increasing motor tax too. Pretty much the plan as it is anyway.

Eric Cartman

PaintDoctor wrote: »

So instead of just adding 10c (Based on figures another boardsie did a few weeks back) on to the price of fuel, every car being taxed, saving money on admin staff, premises, Gardaí time, and actually raising revenue by having every mile driven in this country powered by Dinosaur juice including the price of Motor Tax in the price of fuel posters here would recommend people get into Debt, or stop driving, or get a job, or change their car - oh, and ignore the increases of tax that are coming. It's only another 1 or 2 Euro a week, nothing to see here, move along.

Common sense, doesn't appear to be very common anymore.

im not supporting anyone changing cars for the tax cost , for my style of car >2.5L the old tax system is far nicer, Id much rather everyone in old V8 and V12 beamers than new horrible little daysul hatchbacks, Car tax in this country costs too much , the only reason im not out rioting is that I have a VAT number and can claim the vat back on my fuel and pay 288 in tax on my truck , but any increase in costs affects my business, if my customers dont have money I cant work, if the duty on fuel goes up my prices go up,

at the moment I can understand our debt situation ( i dont believe we should have given the banks any money btw) but if the price of fuel goes up much more I may have to go green (and im not talking about buying a smaller 4x4)

JerCotter7

mikom wrote: »

Come out to the country sometime Guy.

Couldn't get any further into the country since I live about 20 minutes from mizen head.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Unless peopel have more people than seats then the "need" for a bigger car is subjective. This is similar to the thread a coupel of weeks ago where peopel have this view or Germany and the autobahn where everyone is drivign S classes and millign aroudn at 150mph. The reality is small cars are perfectly adequate.

I haven't so the quality is a generalization on my part. Sorry about that. But try fit 5 grown adults into either of the cars. I mean comfortably. And baby seats are worse than a passenger. Make it even more awkward.

Guy:Incognito

PaintDoctor wrote: »

So instead of just adding 10c (Based on figures another boardsie did a few weeks back) on to the price of fuel, every car being taxed, saving money on admin staff, premises, Gardaí time, and actually raising revenue by having every mile driven in this country powered by Dinosaur juice including the price of Motor Tax in the price of fuel posters here would recommend people get into Debt, or stop driving, or get a job, or change their car - oh, and ignore the increases of tax that are coming. It's only another 1 or 2 Euro a week, nothing to see here, move along.

Common sense, doesn't appear to be very common anymore.

Again, nobody is saying any of that. Thats you adding everything being said up and spewing out your own opinion of what everyoen else says.

While it's a system I agree with theres only so much you can add to the cost of fuel before you put every petrol station, and their associated jobs, within driving distance of the border, out of business. Selling the system to those peope is a difficult sell.

The knock on effects of addign money to fuel are huge. At least when you have a car you know how much teh tax will be.

Guy:Incognito

JerCotter7 wrote: »

I haven't so the quality is a generalization on my part. Sorry about that. But try fit 5 grown adults into either of the cars. I mean comfortably. And baby seats are worse than a passenger. Make it even more awkward.

How many families are made up of 5 grown adults?

A small car is fine for a family with 2 kids of any size.

Anyway, nobody is saying everyone should sell their cars and buy a new small car. Theres different arguements being stuck together all over the place here.

mikom

JerCotter7 wrote: »

Couldn't get any further into the country since I live about 20 minutes from mizen head.

Wasn't directed at you Jer.

Voodoomelon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

The idea is to raise revenue, not piss off a few people and make a different bunch happy while revenue stays the same.

What i said does raise revenue, as I said, its the same net difference as what Fine Gael are proposing and is fairer.
The current tax system, by its very nature, is a load of bollox. How can you have one C02 system for one bunch of cars, and then a cc-based system for another bunch of older cars, when in fact all cars are the same?

The government doesn't give two hoots about CO2 and the environment, if it did high mileage diesel drivers should be hammered for damaging the roads and environment so much compared to low mileage, large-engined petrols.

Tax on fuel as mentioned a billion and one times would raise so much more revenue than the existing system and would be infinitely fairer. Yes, something needs to be worked out for the business sector, but its the best system by a country mile.

They reduce the lower tax rate to €156 for low emission cars and then scratch their heads when everyone starts buying them. Why are some people paying ten times that because they have an older 3 litre engine emitting less than twice the C02?

What annoys me so much is that its not going to change any time soon, theyre just going to keep increasing everything pricing people off the road, without thought to better solutions.

Sids Not

Lets all remember on voting day how the GREEN ******s are trying to get rid of our cars......;)

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

My mother bought a new car on the scrappage scheme with money she got from being made redundant. Is she rich?

Well she mustn't be short of a bob if she has just gone out and spent a good few thousand on a new car

billyboy01

pajo1981 wrote: »

Blame the dickheads who bought property they couldn't afford.
Blame the dickheads who thought they'd try their hand at being landlords.
Blame the dickheads who borrowed money to develop property for all of the other dickheads.
Blame the dickheads who provided them all with the money.

Their dept is now our dept. Get used to paying it back, I'm afraid.

Eh NO!

I'll move 60 miles North of Dublin or 60 Miles East of Dublin!

Live under a new Flag and Government of Competence!

Im not going to be another thick sheep and pay up to the Gombeen men, AHHHHHHH Im so ashamed to have been born here!:mad:

pajo1981

pajo1981 wrote: »

Blame the dickheads who bought property they couldn't afford.
Blame the dickheads who thought they'd try their hand at being landlords.
Blame the dickheads who borrowed money to develop property for all of the other dickheads.
Blame the dickheads who provided them all with the money.

Their dept is now our dept. Get used to paying it back, I'm afraid.

Well really all you have to do is to blame the dheads who decided the bank debt had to be paid by the Irish taxpayer. We could manage away quite nicely without that.

sollar

I can't believe driving is going to get even more expensive. How can they put more on the cc drivers :mad:

Email simon and leo and let them know what you think of this idea:

simon.coveney@oir.ie

leo.varadkar@oireachtas.ie

zenno

ah here if they put motor tax up again then that will be it. i have some pride left and i am defo not going to be ripped off with this crap anymore. if it goes up again then i will be doing a photoshop copy of my tax disc and pay them nothing i've had it with this s$it. i have always payed my motor-tax but i won't be anymore if this goes up.

lomb

Voodoomelon wrote: »

They reduce the lower tax rate to €156 for low emission cars and then scratch their heads when everyone starts buying them. Why are some people paying ten times that because they have an older 3 litre engine emitting less than twice the C02?

Common sense isnt all that common! They are a bunch of monkeys. If i was in government i would be encouraging people to buy high co2 outputting cars as there would be more duty raised on fuel then. Anyway its probably got something to do with co2 treaties. Keep duty low initially to entice people in then jack it up.

Fact is many of the low co2 emitters arent really. Turbo charged engines have artificially low outputs that arent achieved in the real world. Its all nonsense anyway the oil fields are going to be burnt dry one way or another (and the co2 output will be the same )might as well do it ourselves than let another generation do it! Crazy and sad but true.

zenno

all we need now is for plants and trees to start using the computer on boards.ie complaining that they want co2 because they love it so much and they don't see a cent from this scam seeing that they are releasing oxygen for free.

Earth and it's inhabitants need more, not less, CO2.
More CO2 means:

* More Plant Growth
* Plants need less water
* More food per acre
* More robust habitats and ecosystems

CO2 is Earth's greatest airborne fertilizer. Without it - No Life On Earth

Stealthirl

Eric Cartman wrote: »

it is, if you think about it , 5 year loan (probably how long the car would be kept too) would be about 150 a month / 38 euro a week , easily affordably to most working people , and possibly people on the dole if they dont have a family to look after, new cars arent just for rich people

thats if u can get a lone in the 1st place !

i have very good credit history,owen my owen home,work full time [for just above min wage] and im single.iv saved up 5K in the last 18months yet the banks the was offering me lones left right and center a few years ago wont now,so i took my 5K and put it in the credit union so hopefully next year i can afford a new car.

the only lone i got of any financhal instatution was for the house and that was cleared 2 years ago.

i agree with bumping up CO2 tax or re doing the bands but leave the CC based one alone and droping clasic tax down to cars 20years old+ for 50% and bring in vintage tax at 30 years + for €50

i currantly pay €932 for a years tax but due to the price of pertol i now only do 8-10K Km a year


how meney 20 year old cars are still on the road now with the scrappage and yearly NCTs ?

most cars i see are 97 on cars very rarely see anything from 91

galwaytt

Stealthirl wrote: »

how meney 20 year old cars are still on the road now with the scrappage and yearly NCTs ?

most cars i see are 97 on cars very rarely see anything from 91

Well my cars are 1990, 1993, and 1994 - so maybe I'm over-compensating.....

Here's what I just emailed to Leo and Simon, as per suggestion, above......

Gentlemen

I started this thread on boards.ie recently following Leo's appearance on Vincent Browne's show on TV3 - I am the one known as 'galwaytt' and I would be a good acquaintance of your colleague, and relative neighbour of, Ciarán Cannon.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056177584&highlight=motor

Now, my point is this:
We now have a two-tier motor tax system.

Those who are well off, and well paid, get to buy nice shiney new low CO2 cars, and enjoy paltry tax.

The majority of us, driving pre-08 cars, or, in my case 1993, are paying between 4 and 10 times that enjoyed by the well off.

And, are you so blind as to not see that VAT increases fuel prices ? That the majority of this country do NOT have access to public transport, and so need fuel to go to work............to pay the taxes .......that pay your (inflated) salaries.........that we need fuel to bring our children to school........the fuel that delivers groceries to Supermarkets.........raw material to our employer's factories............finished goods to our customer's, at home and abroad........

Have you any comprehension at all of the effect of inflation ?

Here is a the body of some recent corresondence I sent, on the subject.

.......... Consider: both you and I are rural dweller's. Both you and I drive completely disparate vehicles, albeit on the same roads. You have a 2009 520d which is , economical, and matches the requirements you need in a car - presumably fairly big mileage to/from Dublin, etc.
I on the other hand, drive a 17 yr old car, and do low mileage, this year I might do 4,000 miles.

But, and here's the dichotomy: I am required to pay €1291 to drive the 4,000 miles, in a car worth 2500 (if I'm lucky), so €0.32/mile.
You though, presuming it's the 140gm/CO2 version, enjoy a tax of only €156. to drive.........20,000 miles ? (or much, much more...?)...in a car worth €41,000-odd. So, about €0.007/mile.

The injustice is two-fold:
1. I am being asked to pay more than 8 times your tax, to drive 1/5th the mileage. So there is a factor there, at least of 8 x 40 - that's right, I'm being asked 40 times the tax you are.
2. The amount of tax being asked is 50% of my car's value. You are asked to pay 3/100th's of 1 per cent. That is a 16000% difference, in your favour.

This is just ridiculous. And it's not just me. Pick anyone with a pre-08 car, of any kind, and this perversity will manifest itself, albeit with different %'s.

My sister-in-law, also in Athenry, drives a 1997 Corolla worth €400. It does it's job well. She does about 2,500 miles a year-ish. Again, her tax is €310, so 77% of the car's value, and €0.12/mile

This is truly intolerable.

So, pragmatically, just as in depreciation, car tax, if on a system akin to our current, is going to have to discount for age, and say, at 15 yr mark, go to a simple flat fee. Remember, my car cost, in 1993, £39,000 - and in 17yrs of use could have contributed €21,497 in tax.

Enough is enough, and it has to stop.

John


Neither of them, nor the FG policy unit, nor Press unit, acknowledged, let alone replied in any way, to other recent correspondence, so I won't hold my breadth.

Let's just say I've edited my vote on the boards.ie GE election.........

Peavy

it appears that for every party you vote there are consencuences , what i would suggest is dont vote at all they jsut want out money !!! they allready lowerd pay by a 1e and they start increase prices on things ! how people are supposed to live especially if they can barely meet ends ! they are a bunch of pricks tbh ;/ the whole goverment needs to be changed ;/

Mr.Boots

zenno wrote: »

all we need now is for plants and trees to start using the computer on boards.ie complaining that they want co2 because they love it so much and they don't see a cent from this scam seeing that they are releasing oxygen for free.

Earth and it's inhabitants need more, not less, CO2.
More CO2 means:

* More Plant Growth
* Plants need less water
* More food per acre
* More robust habitats and ecosystems

CO2 is Earth's greatest airborne fertilizer. Without it - No Life On Earth

Tell Jim Corr i was asking for him....

Peavy

i think if people won't do anything those pricks out on the goverment will completely destroy this countries economy and Ireland as it once was green will never be the same incase like this best type of goverment managment would be dictatorship i know it sounds harsh but there woudnt be no bull one person says what to do a very good example. Hitler managed to restore germany completely and was no poverty in it at all !!! i know he was a bad person and i dont agree with his actions but when it came to economy he knew what he was doing vs todays Fianna FAIL , the green party , fianna gail they are a bunch of bull
VERY ANGRY ENRAGED FACE :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

E39MSport

coolbeans wrote: »

There's not a chance I'll be bringing up motor tax to any of the electoral candidates. Let's get this into perspective. The country is literally and figuratively bankrupt. We've got a real rate of around 19% unemployment which is massaged by the equally scary emigration figures. An entire generation will be lost to the shores of more competently governed nations. We spend, or at least did spend similar amounts as the Dutch, a country with at least double our population, on health care for a damn poor service and a penitentiary service the Nigerians would be ashamed of .
The countryside is blighted by over development, ghost estates and god awful McMansions the cumulative effect of which severely retards our ability to reinvigorate the tourist industry as the landscape is now so severely scarred.
We have the highest sovereign debt of the developed nations, and don't kid yourself, it's sovereign now. No developed country has fallen so far, so fast and we're on here whining about motor taxes. It's often said that country's get the governments they deserve and from what I've seen so far I'm inclined to agree. If you're pissed off do something. Get out there, protest make a difference but don't for the love of God moan about a paltry increase motor tax. The country is broke and we all have to pay for it. We elected them, and if you personally didn't then your inaction in the face of such a calamity amounts to tacit approval.
Motor tax. FFS!

Free country my friend. I'll moan about motor tax on the motors forum if I want to thanks very much.

Please don't preach to people about whom you know nothing - it ruins your otherwise sensible post. I have a perfectly good understanding of the wider issues - most of us do at this stage I imagine.

I got 2 motor tax reminders in the post the other day for a total of Eur 3132. That will be 3332 next year. Hardly paltry.

One of those cars costs me approximately Eur 150 in road tax every time I take it out on a pulic road.

At the same time, Micheal Salesman is dumping tonnes of carbon into my environment costing him under Eur 200 in road tax.

Thats at the core of this thread I think.

Raskolnikov

PaintDoctor wrote: »

If they brought Motor Tax down to a morally acceptable level, people would find the necessary funds, and it would result in more overall money in the exchequer.

:pac:

Raskolnikov

RoverJames wrote: »

Well really all you have to do is to blame the dheads who decided the bank debt had to be paid by the Irish taxpayer. We could manage away quite nicely without that.

That's the nub of the issue.

Fine Gael are committed to stealing your cash to pay off debts incurred by millionaire property speculators. Quit your complaining boys and cough up!

murphyebass

zenno wrote: »

ah here if they put motor tax up again then that will be it. i have some pride left and i am defo not going to be ripped off with this crap anymore. if it goes up again then i will be doing a photoshop copy of my tax disc and pay them nothing i've had it with this s$it. i have always payed my motor-tax but i won't be anymore if this goes up.

imho this is the nub of the problem.

If people cant afford / choose not to afford to pay the tax they will not pay the tax.

This then impacts on the revenue generated and thus the Goverment continue on their pointless mission of increasing said tax.

Its nuts. The ONLY fair way of dealing with motor tax is by taxing the fuel.

EVERYONE then pays for what they use and ie fuel, roads, etc...

They do not think these things through. Its like the tolls. It should be lots of small tolls along those roads not just 1 or 2 leading to some people pay loads and others dodging them.

Tea 1000

Eric Cartman wrote: »

it is, if you think about it , 5 year loan (probably how long the car would be kept too) would be about 150 a month / 38 euro a week , easily affordably to most working people , and possibly people on the dole if they dont have a family to look after, new cars arent just for rich people

Don't be daft. Getting loans is what caused this situation in the first place.
Tax on fuel is the fairest way.

Voodoomelon

If you think about it, motor tax is one of the few taxes that you choose to pay. As said, if people can't afford it, they won't pay it.

If the tax was on fuel, you'd be forced to pay it. Granted, people will and are, driving less but at least the government is guaranted its money. And its much fairer.

Matt Simis

Voodoomelon wrote: »

If you think about it, motor tax is one of the few taxes that you choose to pay. As said, if people can't afford it, they won't pay it.

Unless you suggest they drive illegally, a lot of people cannot get to work/live without a car. Car tax is a taxation on freedom of movement and IMO, not an elective tax. A tax on lollypops is an elective tax.

650Ginge

VolvoMan wrote: »

I wasn't going to vote for Fine Gael because I thought that Enda Kenny was a fcuktard, but they're definitely not getting my vote now.

For sure....dont vote for Labour either....since they are likely to jump into bed together and **** us...

billyboy01

Well FG are putting the Motor tax up 50quid for normal cars and 100quid for sports cars and luxobarges!

Also FF are going to rise the carbon tax on fuel, so Brains Lierhan said on RTE Primetime last night!

Stealthirl

galwaytt wrote: »

Well my cars are 1990, 1993, and 1994 - so maybe I'm over-compensating.....

well mines 93 hence why i said 20years old
The road tax is basicly more then then what i get if i sold it
but i realy dont want to sell it and would like to keep it and have a very well looked after vintage car in 2023.
Shes taxed till june after that im takeing it off the road and will only tax it for 3 months a year.just have to get something to replace it with

Have you tryed to get media covrage ? would be good to see this issue brought up

sogood

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The easiest way for any new potential Government to raise revenue, is to scrap the existing system, and add a surcharge to fuel. It's by far the fairest system. There'd never be such a thing as an untaxed car, those who drive more, and pollute more, pay more. It's the simplest, most straightforward method - and like putting a few extra pence on the price of the pint, would be much better for our wonderful Government to implement - easier too, as you could do away with all the civil servants who sit there manually processing tax discs in every county too.

I have suggested this particular system many times myself, for all the same reasons. I have done the maths, and worked out the extra few cents per litre that would bring extra revenue in and it would hardly be noticed by the motorist etc. etc. But, and the big but is this, it makes sense, is fair and would save waste and raise revenue on a fair and equitable basis, plus it has been proven to work in other countries. So, therefore, it will never happen here.

Joe 90

Matt Simis wrote: »

FF got us here.
Labour want to take away my dogs and terminate them and put a cap on "private salary" (?)
FG want to increase motor tax and have a leader so uncharismatic he is hated before actually been given the chance to screw up.
Crap choices all round.


The thing about increasing motortax, especially on CO2 stuff is everyone expects it anyhow. I would imagine whatever party takes hold of the sinking ship will need Tax increases all round, its not a FG thing per say.

Labour want to what? WTF have dogs got to do with them?
Sorry, living in England so hadn't heard that bit of their manifesto.