A vote for Labour is a vote for SIPTU

Tim Robbins

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Wow, 3 active SIPTU members running for Labour out of 60+ Labour candidates - what a massive influence.

It is possible for a member of the Dail to still be a member of SIPTU?

Tim Robbins

I am in complete agreement with CDfm. Some people won't admit the links when there is far more evidence for links between SIPTU / Labour then FF and developers either in 1997, 2002 or 2007.

We have seen what government by vested interest does to the country, I see Labour / SIPTU as just another vested interest who will put the interests of the unions before the interests of the people.

A complete subversion of democracy.
Let's have a look at some other links...

Gimore - Acting Secretary of the Galway Branch, 1978–1979, Secretary of Tralee Branch, 1979–1981, and of the Professional & Managerial Staffs Branch, 1981–1989 in SIPTU.
Rabbite - Official in ITGWU/SIPTU from 1974. National Secretary for ITGWU / SIPTU in 1980
Joe Costello - X Public Sector - School Teacher. Also former Secondary School Teacher & former President of Association of Secondary Teachers of Ireland (ASTI)

And the profile of other Labour people likely to be sitting at cabinet.

Joan Burton - X - Public Sector - lecturer in Accountancy, DIT
Tommy Broughan - X - Public Sector - Teacher St Aidan's CBS
Roisin Shorthall - X - public Sector - Worked as teacher for the deaf
Brendan Howlin -X - public sector. Primary school teacher. His Dad was secretary of ITGWU in Wexford for 40 years.

Quinn, Stagg as far as I can see are from private sector and have no Union links.

Note, I am not saying any other party is perfect. All I am saying is people who are skeptical of the impacts of militant trade unions should be skeptical of Labour. Their representation seems completely lob sided.

femur61

mox54 wrote: »

Whats wrong with Labour and sitpu working together, Fianna Fail and business are in bed together and look where we are now, at least the workers will have some say!:mad:

Fianna Fail were in bed with the Unions as well, wasn't bench marking in the public sector gauged on the wages of the private sector at the time. Mary harney said in hindsight wages in the public sector should have been bench marked against public sector wages in other EU countries. Now that would have taken a lot of the PS of their high horse.

Tim Robbins

femur61 wrote: »

Fianna Fail were in bed with the Unions as well, wasn't bench marking in the public sector gauged on the wages of the private sector at the time. Mary harney said in hindsight wages in the public sector should have been bench marked against public sector wages in other EU countries. Now that would have taken a lot of the PS of their high horse.

They were and pillaged a lot of the Labour vote. Started to over pay the public sector and kept their vote.

Basically I see the Unions as a major obstacle to recovery. I think it is naieve not to.

CDfm

Tim Robbins wrote: »

They were and pillaged a lot of the Labour vote. Started to over pay the public sector and kept their vote.

Basically I see the Unions as a major obstacle to recovery. I think it is naieve not to.

If you say that socialist principles are about the fair distribution of and allocation of resourses then the 49% extra wages the public sector earn more than the private sector is a biggie.

The Public Service workers are the "haves" and everyone else are the "have nots"

The public servants are the ruling classes, it is hardly liberté, égalité, fraternité. Now theres a thought :p

thetonynator

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Your analogy of Labour posters being visible on Liberty Hall can be comparable to their being large political posters on some plots of a farmer's land along a motorway. It doesn't mean that the farmer owns the party, he is merely supporting it.

Usually means that the party have paid the farmer for the benefit of it!!!

Killer Pigeon

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I am in complete agreement with CDfm. Some people won't admit the links when there is far more evidence for links between SIPTU / Labour then FF and developers either in 1997, 2002 or 2007.

We have seen what government by vested interest does to the country, I see Labour / SIPTU as just another vested interest who will put the interests of the unions before the interests of the people.

A complete subversion of democracy.
Let's have a look at some other links...

Gimore - Acting Secretary of the Galway Branch, 1978–1979, Secretary of Tralee Branch, 1979–1981, and of the Professional & Managerial Staffs Branch, 1981–1989 in SIPTU.
Rabbite - Official in ITGWU/SIPTU from 1974. National Secretary for ITGWU / SIPTU in 1980
Joe Costello - X Public Sector - School Teacher. Also former Secondary School Teacher & former President of Association of Secondary Teachers of Ireland (ASTI)

And the profile of other Labour people likely to be sitting at cabinet.

Joan Burton - X - Public Sector - lecturer in Accountancy, DIT
Tommy Broughan - X - Public Sector - Teacher St Aidan's CBS
Roisin Shorthall - X - public Sector - Worked as teacher for the deaf
Brendan Howlin -X - public sector. Primary school teacher. His Dad was secretary of ITGWU in Wexford for 40 years.

Quinn, Stagg as far as I can see are from private sector and have no Union links.

Note, I am not saying any other party is perfect. All I am saying is people who are skeptical of the impacts of militant trade unions should be skeptical of Labour. Their representation seems completely lob sided.

Dear Lord, for the last time Labour have a relationship with BOTH PRIVATE and PUBLIC sector Unions. You're just incurably bitter towards the public sectors, it's actually incredible, you're even taking it out on school teachers who are members of Labour and pointing that out as an extreme connection to the public sector. Look at parties like FG/FF there is a huge public sector representation there, for god sake Micheál Martin and Enda Kenny are both school teachers by trade. There are plenty of former teachers and other public sector workers in FF/FG. By the way, I don't know if you knew this but TD's, Senetor, Concillors, etc.. are by definition Public Sector workers.

Joan Burton - Spokesperson for Finance.
- Educated at UCD
- Qualified chartered accountant, worked
with Price Waterhouse before becoming a
senior lecturer at DIT.

Joe Costello - Spokesperson for Transport.
- Educated at St. Patrick's College, Maynooth
and UCD
- Former secondary school teacher.

Michael D. Higgins - Spokesperson for International affairs
(albeit former)
- Educated at NUIG, Indiana University and
Manchester University.
- Former lecturer at NUIG.

Brendan Howlin - Spokesperson for European Affairs,
constitutional matters, law reform and human
rights.
- Educated at St. Patrick's College, Drumcondra.
- Former primary school teacher.

Ciarán Lynch - Spokesperson for Housing and Local Government,
- Educated at WIT and UCC,
- Former Adult Literacy Organiser with ALO and
Cork VEC.

Liz McManus - Spokesperson on Communication, Energy & Natural
Resources,
- Studied Architecture at UCD,
- She is an author and wrote weekly columns for the
Sunday Tribune.

Brian O'Shea - Spokesperson on Defense and the Irish Language,
- Former teacher,

Jan O'Sullivan - Spokesperson on Health,
- Studied at Trinity College, Dublin and UCC.
- Former montessouri teacher.

Ruairi Quinn - Spokesperson on Education and Science,
- Studied Architecture at UCD and later educated at
the School of Ekistics in Athens, Greece.
- Worked as an Architece but was an active member of
the Labour Party since his University years.

Seán Sherlock - Spokesperson on Argiculture & Food,
- Studied Economic & Politics at NUIG,
- Worked as an assistant to Labour Party MEP
Proinsias De Rossa at the Eurpean Parliament.

Roisin Shortall - Spokesperson on Social & Family Affairs,
- Educated at UCD and St. Mary's College of
Education, Marino.
- Former teacher of the Deaf.

Emmet Stagg - Labour Party Chief Whip,
- Studied at Kevin Street College of Technology,
- Worked as a Medical Technologist at Trinity College,
Dublin.

Joanna Tuffy - Spokesperson on Environmental and Heritage,
- Educated at Trinity College, Dublin and DIT
(Legal Studies)

Mary Upton - Spokesperson on Arts, Sport & Tourism,
- Educated at NUIG and UCD,
- Former lecturer.

Jack Wall - Spokesperson on Community and Rural Affairs,
- No University
- Former Electrician.

(The following are Seanad Éireann Sokesperson running for Dáil
seats)

Ivana Bacik - Seanad Spokesperson on Justice, Arts, Sports and
Tourism.
- Educated at Trinity College, Dublin and the London
School of Economics (LLB & LLM repectively).
- Practising Barrister and teaches classes in
Criminology, Constitutional Law, Feminist Theories
and Law.

Dominic Hannigan - Seanad Spokesperson on Commuter Issues,
Environment & Local Government, Foreign
Affairs and Defense.
- Studied at UCD (Engineering), City University
London (Masters in Transport) and University
of London (Masters in Finance),
- Engineer.

Phil Prendergast - Seanad Spokesperson on Health & Family Affairs,
and Party Spokesperson on Older People.
- Worked as a Nurse and later as a Midwife.

Brendan Ryan - Seanad Spokesperson on Enterprise, Trade and
Employment,
- Educated at DIT, UCD and DCU (Degree in Chemistry
and Masters' degrees in Food Science and Business
Administration).
- All his working life he has worked in industry
in the private sector, mainly in the technical
and operations areas, and in senior managerial
positions. He has worked in the Food and Chemicals
sectors of industry.

Alex White - Seanad Group Leader and Seanad Spokesperson on
Children,
- Educated at Trinity College, Dublin and the King's
Inn.
- Barrister.

CDfm

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Dear Lord, for the last time Labour have a relationship with BOTH PRIVATE and PUBLIC sector Unions. You're just incurably bitter towards the public sectors, it's actually incredible, you're even taking it out on school teachers who are members of Labour and pointing that out as an extreme connection to the public sector. Look at parties like FG/FF there is a huge public sector representation there, for god sake Micheál Martin and Enda Kenny are both school teachers by trade. There are plenty of former teachers and other public sector workers in FF/FG. By the way, I don't know if you knew this but TD's, Senetor, Concillors, etc.. are by definition Public Sector workers.

Joan Burton - Spokesperson for Finance.
- Educated at UCD
- Qualified chartered accountant, worked
with Price Waterhouse before becoming a
senior lecturer at DIT.

Joe Costello - Spokesperson for Transport.
- Educated at St. Patrick's College, Maynooth
and UCD
- Former secondary school teacher.

Michael D. Higgins - Spokesperson for International affairs
(albeit former)
- Educated at NUIG, Indiana University and
Manchester University.
- Former lecturer at NUIG.

Brendan Howlin - Spokesperson for European Affairs,
constitutional matters, law reform and human
rights.
- Educated at St. Patrick's College, Drumcondra.
- Former primary school teacher.

Ciarán Lynch - Spokesperson for Housing and Local Government,
- Educated at WIT and UCC,
- Former Adult Literacy Organiser with ALO and
Cork VEC.

Liz McManus - Spokesperson on Communication, Energy & Natural
Resources,
- Studied Architecture at UCD,
- She is an author and wrote weekly columns for the
Sunday Tribune.

Brian O'Shea - Spokesperson on Defense and the Irish Language,
- Former teacher,

Jan O'Sullivan - Spokesperson on Health,
- Studied at Trinity College, Dublin and UCC.
- Former montessouri teacher.

Ruairi Quinn - Spokesperson on Education and Science,
- Studied Architecture at UCD and later educated at
the School of Ekistics in Athens, Greece.
- Worked as an Architece but was an active member of
the Labour Party since his University years.

Seán Sherlock - Spokesperson on Argiculture & Food,
- Studied Economic & Politics at NUIG,
- Worked as an assistant to Labour Party MEP
Proinsias De Rossa at the Eurpean Parliament.

Roisin Shortall - Spokesperson on Social & Family Affairs,
- Educated at UCD and St. Mary's College of
Education, Marino.
- Former teacher of the Deaf.

Emmet Stagg - Labour Party Chief Whip,
- Studied at Kevin Street College of Technology,
- Worked as a Medical Technologist at Trinity College,
Dublin.

Joanna Tuffy - Spokesperson on Environmental and Heritage,
- Educated at Trinity College, Dublin and DIT
(Legal Studies)

Mary Upton - Spokesperson on Arts, Sport & Tourism,
- Educated at NUIG and UCD,
- Former lecturer.

Jack Wall - Spokesperson on Community and Rural Affairs,
- No University
- Former Electrician.

(The following are Seanad Éireann Sokesperson running for Dáil
seats)

Ivana Bacik - Seanad Spokesperson on Justice, Arts, Sports and
Tourism.
- Educated at Trinity College, Dublin and the London
School of Economics (LLB & LLM repectively).
- Practising Barrister and teaches classes in
Criminology, Constitutional Law, Feminist Theories
and Law.

Dominic Hannigan - Seanad Spokesperson on Commuter Issues,
Environment & Local Government, Foreign
Affairs and Defense.
- Studied at UCD (Engineering), City University
London (Masters in Transport) and University
of London (Masters in Finance),
- Engineer.

Phil Prendergast - Seanad Spokesperson on Health & Family Affairs,
and Party Spokesperson on Older People.
- Worked as a Nurse and later as a Midwife.

Brendan Ryan - Seanad Spokesperson on Enterprise, Trade and
Employment,
- Educated at DIT, UCD and DCU (Degree in Chemistry
and Masters' degrees in Food Science and Business
Administration).
- All his working life he has worked in industry
in the private sector, mainly in the technical
and operations areas, and in senior managerial
positions. He has worked in the Food and Chemicals
sectors of industry.

Alex White - Seanad Group Leader and Seanad Spokesperson on
Children,
- Educated at Trinity College, Dublin and the King's
Inn.
- Barrister.

Wow & with all those qualifications you would think they would refuse the political donations and tell the donors to give it back to FAS.

And ICTU's David Begg

THese people do know the difference between right & wrong given their qualifications.

Executive Committee

The Executive Committee members are listed here.
Dublin Office

General Secretary - David Begg

David Begg became General Secretary of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions in 2001. For five years prior to that he was Chief Executive of Concern Worldwide, an international humanitarian organisation working in 27 countries and with offices in Dublin, London, Belfast, New York and Chicago. He is also a Director of the Central Bank (since 1995), a Governor of the Irish Times Trust, non Executive Director of Aer Lingus, a member of the National Economic and Social Council (NESC), and of the Advisory Board of Development Co-operation Ireland. He also sits on the Executive Committee of the European Trade Union Confederation (ETUC).

David Begg is on the Board of the Central Bank that made such a hash of banking regulation.

Sarannej3

I am most unclear about Labour- they want to defer our Government finances correction, and thus borrow more for future generations to repay; then they want to burn the bond-holders- so who do they think will want to lend them more money?
They don't want to cut public spending, but rather favour increasing tax; with taxes of incomes over €100k at between 62 %and 65% they will certainly drive our more ambitious young folk abroad very quickly; at current elevated tax rates, the black economy is already taking hold, and with Labour's increases, this will rise and rise.
We are trying to attract knowledge based economies- with high personal tax rates, we will not succeed in this area.
I can't see myself voting Labour.

irishh_bob

mox54 wrote: »

Whats wrong with Labour and sitpu working together, Fianna Fail and business are in bed together and look where we are now, at least the workers will have some say!:mad:

bertie was the most attentive lover unions ever had in this country and look where we are now

the only difference between labour and FF when it comes to unions is that FF court them for the votes where as with labour , its unconditional love , both situations result in a taking it up the ass by the tax payer

irishh_bob

pajor wrote: »

I would have thought that the Labour party of today was very different, of the Labour party 20, 30 years ago or even since Dick Spring was leader.

So much so, that with the unions and Labour's 'close relationship', that they could in fact, reel the unions in and prevent episodes such as the recent Aer Lingus fiasco.

gilmore is the most left wing labour leader in decades , he has shifted the party closer towards the unions

Killer Pigeon

Sarannej3 wrote: »

I am most unclear about Labour- they want to defer our Government finances correction, and thus borrow more for future generations to repay; then they want to burn the bond-holders- so who do they think will want to lend them more money?
They don't want to cut public spending, but rather favour increasing tax; with taxes of incomes over €100k at between 62 %and 65% they will certainly drive our more ambitious young folk abroad very quickly; at current elevated tax rates, the black economy is already taking hold, and with Labour's increases, this will rise and rise.
We are trying to attract knowledge based economies- with high personal tax rates, we will not succeed in this area.
I can't see myself voting Labour.

1. Labour (as Fine Gael) want to renegotiate the IMF/EU bailout do that Ireland can have a fairer deal. They want to reduce the interest rate on the loan and extend the period to pay it off. In essence they want a less cribbing deal. Labour don't necessarily want to burn the bond holders (that's more of a United Left Alliance approach) but they believe that they should incur some losses. The strategy is basically to create a fairer deal and have it negotiated in such a way that will not hinder the countries ability to borrow money in the future. To clarify Labour doesn't hold the ULA's stance on the IMF/EU bailout.
2. Labour want to increase the tax for people earning over a €100,000. I don't know where you are getting these figures from, it's more like 40-45%. Also, to clarify, it's not going to be 40-45% of your total income if you earn over €100,000. Let's say you earn €120,000, you will pay a higher tax rate on the amount over €100,000 which in this case is 40-45% of €20,000.

Killer Pigeon

irishh_bob wrote: »

bertie was the most attentive lover unions ever had in this country and look where we are now

the only difference between labour and FF when it comes to unions is that FF court them for the votes where as with labour , its unconditional love , both situations result in a taking it up the ass by the tax payer

Oh so Berties love for the Unions brought us to our present situation (???).

How about him being in bed with the developers who pumped up the construction industry. What about the banks who gave them the money. This is what created the boom which eventually bust. First the construction industry was destroyed then the banks, etc.. it was like a domino effect.

Have we forgotten this already?

CDfm

1. Labour (as Fine Gael) want to renegotiate the IMF/EU bailout do that Ireland can have a fairer deal. They want to reduce the interest rate on the loan and extend the period to pay it off. In essence they want a less cribbing deal. Labour don't necessarily want to burn the bond holders (that's more of a United Left Alliance approach) but they believe that they should incur some losses. The strategy is basically to create a fairer deal and have it negotiated in such a way that will not hinder the countries ability to borrow money in the future. To clarify Labour doesn't hold the ULA's stance on the IMF/EU bailout.

There is no doubt about it that part of the interest payment is punative because of our public spending wrecklessness.

1. Labour want to increase the tax for people earning over a €100,000. I don't know where you are getting these figures from, it's more like 40-45%. Also, to clarify, it's not going to be 40-45% of your total income if you earn over €100,000. Let's say you earn €120,000, you will pay a higher tax rate on the amount over €100,000 which in this case is 40-45% of €20,000.

The real issue is that spending must be brought down.

Even Croke Park is unrealistic now - renegotiating the terms of the bailout will mean deep cuts.


[/QUOTE]

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Oh so Berties love for the Unions brought us to our present situation (???).

How about him being in bed with the developers who pumped up the construction industry. What about the banks who gave them the money. This is what created the boom which eventually bust. First the construction industry was destroyed then the banks, etc.. it was like a domino effect.

Have we forgotten this already?

Part of the problem is with the public service who in effect run the show.

Take the Central Bank and its Board and assess how dilligently they did their job.

The recession was forceable from 2006 or so and we were warned of it.All the politicians use relatively the same growth projections.

It is very simplistic to take the view that the government exercises executive power, in fact ,

06/01/2011 - 14:15:29
Former Taoiseach John Bruton claimed today that Ireland is run by civil servants who use TDs and Senators to administer their rule

Read up on what is termed the corporate state.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70573816

So it is too simplistic to blame the government as such. The executive function has been exercised by the Public Service and the government is just one cog in the decision making process. It is not the only one.

You may not agree with it totally but it is a more realistic appraisal of who makes decisions.

The Government & not the public service or/and the unions have the Constitutional Authority.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70573816

Tragedy

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

.
1. Labour want to increase the tax for people earning over a €100,000. I don't know where you are getting these figures from, it's more like 40-45%. Also, to clarify, it's not going to be 40-45% of your total income if you earn over €100,000. Let's say you earn €120,000, you will pay a higher tax rate on the amount over €100,000 which in this case is 40-45% of €20,000.

All below are Private A1
If you earn €50,000, you pay 30% in PAYE/PRSI/USC
If you earn €100,000 , you pay 40% in Tax/PRSI/USC.
If you earn €200,000, you pay 47%.
If you earn €200,000 as Public A1, you pay 56%.
Seems fairly equitable already.

CDfm

Sarannej3 wrote: »

I am most unclear about Labour- they want to defer our Government finances correction, and thus borrow more for future generations to repay; then they want to burn the bond-holders- so who do they think will want to lend them more money?

I can't see myself voting Labour.

A Politicians key responsibility is to get elected/re-elected. That does not mean the politician will do the right thing when in power.

Flashgordon197

Tim Robbins wrote: »

There is a symbiotic relationship between Labour and SIPTU.
Siptu make no apologies for it and are officially backing Labour in the election.

Why are they doing this?

What political favours do they expect in return?

If Labour get Minister for finance - what can we expect? More shopping trips to Newry?

Not everyone works in the public sector and not everyone is a member of SIPTU. Why should a vested interest be so close to a government when it only represents its own interests?

We have seen what a vested interest does when it gets politically powerful surely this is terrifying?

In my own case it has made me think the unthinkable give my 4th preference to FF.

Discuss...

Much better to have your party funded by business interests-like developers. That will see us right!

CDfm

Flashgordon197 wrote: »

Much better to have your party funded by business interests-like developers. That will see us right!

And who has suggested that.

What people want is straightforward honest government, not, dishonest interest based unelected government.

Flashgordon197

Trade unions have got a bad press lately. I know many friends in non union employment . Some are treated fairly but those who aint are treated quite poorly because they have no official channels to complain or back them up in a dispute. A lot of anti-trade unionism is simply jealosy that you dont have a union to protect your interests.

We have to decide as a nation whether we the tax payer want to fully fund political parties or not. If we don't want to fund them-then they will obviously look for funding from vested interests. The Trade unions did not create this mess. They played a part but by far the largest culprits are developers and bankers. We already fund Parties in part.

Do you want to stump up for political parties -yes or no?

Flashgordon197

CDfm wrote: »

And who has suggested that.

What people want is straightforward honest government, not, dishonest interest based unelected government.

Parties cost money to run. Its that simple. You -the tax payer pay or a vested interest does. You don't seem to grasp this. Not an attack-just trying to clarify how you think they will pay staff/research? Especially an opposition party. Not fair to zero in on Labours links to SIPTU alone. Given a toss up between liberty hall and the Galway Tent-I take the Union shilling any day.

If you reduce vested interest money then taxpayer must fill the void.

CDfm

Flashgordon197 wrote: »

Trade unions have got a bad press lately. I know many friends in non union employment . Some are treated fairly but those who aint are treated quite poorly because they have no official channels to complain or back them up in a dispute.

The Unions have been a player.

In the old days we needed unions but we do not need unions dictating government policy or manipulating industrial disputes for political motives.

The Unions are not apolitical but are party political.

They also have benefited hugely financially thru FAS etc.

That is hardly ethical.

A lot of anti-trade unionism is simply jealosy that you dont have a union to protect your interests.

Actually no. A lot of it is that people who are not elected by the people and accountable to parliment have no mandate.

The Trade unions did not create this mess. They played a part but by far the largest culprits are developers and bankers. We already fund Parties in part.

The Public Service regulated the banks and advised the government.

Do you want to stump up for political parties -yes or no?

I think yes -but with very limited donations.

CDfm

Flashgordon197 wrote: »

Parties cost money to run. Its that simple. You -the tax payer pay or a vested interest does. You don't seem to grasp this. Not an attack-just trying to clarify how you think they will pay staff/research? Especially an opposition party. Not fair to zero in on Labours links to SIPTU alone. Given a toss up between liberty hall and the Galway Tent-I take the Union shilling any day.

If you reduce vested interest money then taxpayer must fill the void.

But the Unions have taken the public service shilling & its not shillings & it belongs to the taxpayers, its millions.

Sarannej3

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

1. Labour (as Fine Gael) want to renegotiate the IMF/EU bailout do that Ireland can have a fairer deal. They want to reduce the interest rate on the loan and extend the period to pay it off. In essence they want a less cribbing deal. Labour don't necessarily want to burn the bond holders (that's more of a United Left Alliance approach) but they believe that they should incur some losses. The strategy is basically to create a fairer deal and have it negotiated in such a way that will not hinder the countries ability to borrow money in the future. To clarify Labour doesn't hold the ULA's stance on the IMF/EU bailout.
2. Labour want to increase the tax for people earning over a €100,000. I don't know where you are getting these figures from, it's more like 40-45%. Also, to clarify, it's not going to be 40-45% of your total income if you earn over €100,000. Let's say you earn €120,000, you will pay a higher tax rate on the amount over €100,000 which in this case is 40-45% of €20,000.

Killer Pigeon

May you would check current tax rates with the Revenue Commissioners- I am on a marginal tax rate of 55%, in 2010 and 2011, and plus 10% takes that to....work it out!

Labour say they want to delay the correction for 1-2 years- that means borrowing more that in the IMF/EU plan- not a good way to squeeze better terms, as far as I can see. I also think that it is immoral for one generation to borrow and spend, and the next to pick up the bill- we need if anything a more rapid correction, not a delayed one.

Tim Robbins

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

Dear Lord, for the last time Labour have a relationship with BOTH PRIVATE and PUBLIC sector Unions. You're just incurably bitter towards the public sectors, it's actually incredible, you're even taking it out on school teachers who are members of Labour and pointing that out as an extreme connection to the public sector.

The have extreme connections to unions - you can't really refute that.
They also have extreme connections to the public sector you can't refute that either.

I am not bitter about the public sector, I just think the majority of them live in a different world and don't have a sense of how the real economy works.

The real economy works where you compete and you get paid by providing something that is worth the money. The public sector (not all of them but huge swathes of them) don't live in economic reality. They think they should get paid what they think is fair and are prepared to hold us all to ransom if they don't get it.

Not saying the other parties of perfect; it's scary the amount of teachers in the Dail however, I just see these problems way worse in Labour.

Joan Burton - Spokesperson for Finance.
- Educated at UCD
- Qualified chartered accountant, worked
with Price Waterhouse before becoming a
senior lecturer at DIT.

Joe Costello - Spokesperson for Transport.
- Educated at St. Patrick's College, Maynooth
and UCD
- Former secondary school teacher.

Michael D. Higgins - Spokesperson for International affairs
(albeit former)
- Educated at NUIG, Indiana University and
Manchester University.
- Former lecturer at NUIG.

Brendan Howlin - Spokesperson for European Affairs,
constitutional matters, law reform and human
rights.
- Educated at St. Patrick's College, Drumcondra.
- Former primary school teacher.

Ciarán Lynch - Spokesperson for Housing and Local Government,
- Educated at WIT and UCC,
- Former Adult Literacy Organiser with ALO and
Cork VEC.

All public sector.

Liz McManus - Spokesperson on Communication, Energy & Natural
Resources,
- Studied Architecture at UCD,
- She is an author and wrote weekly columns for the
Sunday Tribune.

Private

Brian O'Shea - Spokesperson on Defense and the Irish Language,
- Former teacher,

Public

Jan O'Sullivan - Spokesperson on Health,
- Studied at Trinity College, Dublin and UCC.
- Former montessouri teacher.

Ruairi Quinn - Spokesperson on Education and Science,
- Studied Architecture at UCD and later educated at
the School of Ekistics in Athens, Greece.
- Worked as an Architece but was an active member of
the Labour Party since his University years.

Private

Seán Sherlock - Spokesperson on Argiculture & Food,
- Studied Economic & Politics at NUIG,
- Worked as an assistant to Labour Party MEP
Proinsias De Rossa at the Eurpean Parliament.

Neither.

Roisin Shortall - Spokesperson on Social & Family Affairs,
- Educated at UCD and St. Mary's College of
Education, Marino.
- Former teacher of the Deaf.

Emmet Stagg - Labour Party Chief Whip,
- Studied at Kevin Street College of Technology,
- Worked as a Medical Technologist at Trinity College,
Dublin.

Public

Joanna Tuffy - Spokesperson on Environmental and Heritage,
- Educated at Trinity College, Dublin and DIT
(Legal Studies)

Neither

Mary Upton - Spokesperson on Arts, Sport & Tourism,
- Educated at NUIG and UCD,
- Former lecturer.

Public

Jack Wall - Spokesperson on Community and Rural Affairs,
- No University
- Former Electrician.

(The following are Seanad Éireann Sokesperson running for Dáil
seats)

Private

Ivana Bacik - Seanad Spokesperson on Justice, Arts, Sports and
Tourism.
- Educated at Trinity College, Dublin and the London
School of Economics (LLB & LLM repectively).
- Practising Barrister and teaches classes in
Criminology, Constitutional Law, Feminist Theories
and Law.

Private

Dominic Hannigan - Seanad Spokesperson on Commuter Issues,
Environment & Local Government, Foreign
Affairs and Defense.
- Studied at UCD (Engineering), City University
London (Masters in Transport) and University
of London (Masters in Finance),
- Engineer.

Private

Phil Prendergast - Seanad Spokesperson on Health & Family Affairs,
and Party Spokesperson on Older People.
- Worked as a Nurse and later as a Midwife.
Brendan Ryan - Seanad Spokesperson on Enterprise, Trade and
Employment,
- Educated at DIT, UCD and DCU (Degree in Chemistry
and Masters' degrees in Food Science and Business
Administration).
- All his working life he has worked in industry
in the private sector, mainly in the technical
and operations areas, and in senior managerial
positions. He has worked in the Food and Chemicals
sectors of industry.

Public

Alex White - Seanad Group Leader and Seanad Spokesperson on
Children,
- Educated at Trinity College, Dublin and the King's
Inn.
- Barrister.

Private

Ok so you have 11 Public Sector and 7 Private Sector.

And even within the private sector very few have good commercial experience. For example, something where you have to compete internationally.

I just don't see enough real world experience in the front bench. Not saying the other parties are perfect though!

Tim Robbins

Flashgordon197 wrote: »

Trade unions have got a bad press lately. I know many friends in non union employment . Some are treated fairly but those who aint are treated quite poorly because they have no official channels to complain or back them up in a dispute. A lot of anti-trade unionism is simply jealosy that you dont have a union to protect your interests.

It's because people want to get on with things and are fed up listening to people moaning and stopping them get their passport.

The Unions act like one big joe duffy phone show.

And people are sick of it.

What else are Labour polling so badly?

We have to decide as a nation whether we the tax payer want to fully fund political parties or not. If we don't want to fund them-then they will obviously look for funding from vested interests. The Trade unions did not create this mess. They played a part but by far the largest culprits are developers and bankers. We already fund Parties in part.

Do you want to stump up for political parties -yes or no?

Nonsense. Benchmarking help create the deficit crisis.

All the heat would be on the unions if the banking crisis didn't happen. Getting away with murder really.

CDfm

OK - if Siptu is not linked to Labour then surely it makes contributions to Joe Higgin's Socialist Party, or other left socialist groupings, such as the Green Party or FIS NUA.

Does it ?

Also, how does it treat the other parties.

Can the poster Liberty Hall, do they address union delegates at conferences etc.

What do these other groups think of the connection.