Fine Gael to ban below cost selling of alcohol

phasers

But people will just buy crappier booze now cos it'll still cost less. As I said in my first post, lidl and aldi surely aren't selling their drink at a loss, people will just buy some off brand rubbish to get locked on (as an aside, Aldi do some lovely drink. I really like their fake Baileys)

It won't make binge drinkers drink less, it'll only effect people who enjoy a few cans or bottles. Stop pretending it's for health reasons.

phasers

sdonn wrote: »

Without wanting to sound too Lenihan-esque, Government sometimes has to make unpopular decisions. Yes they do stand to gain VAT, but it hardly lines their own pockets - it pays for things we take for granted like FREE universal healthcare.

Free? Tell that to my latest hospital bill.

sdanseo

syklops wrote: »

Ladies and Gentlemen, the Anti-drink lobby has landed.

Excuse the OT but I'm gona reply to this.

Anti excesssive drink, more like. Ever walked through Dublin at 4am sober? It's like a bloody asylum. Not fun, not merry, a bloody kip.

I have NO problem with drink in moderation, but it's this whole ideaology of drinking purely to get off your rocker that boils my blood - you might as well be snorting coke.

ejmaztec

phasers wrote: »

Free? Tell that to my latest hospital bill.

He must be living in the UK.

Wolfe Tone

**** you fine gael

syklops

sdonn wrote: »

Anti excesssive drink, more like. Ever walked through Dublin at 4am sober? It's like a bloody asylum. Not fun, not merry, a bloody kip.

I have NO problem with drink in moderation, but it's this whole ideaology of drinking purely to get off your rocker that boils my blood - you might as well be snorting coke.

I agree to a certain extent that drinking to get legless should not be encouraged, but Ireland has excessive drink laws, licensing laws, opening hours, and at the same time excessive taxes and duties on alcohol, all in the name of discouraging binge drinking. Has it worked yet? No.

As has been pointed out, all adding tax to alcohol does is encourage people to buy cheaper forms of alcohol. And in my opinion, for many families, adding tax to alcohol and cigarettes takes food directly out of the mouths of children, something that really should be discouraged.

SamSamSammy

I was unsure who to vote for, but they've got my vote off the back of this. Excellent idea, can only help society.

Sorry to the p1$$ heads :pac:

ejmaztec

Fuck the lot of em, brew your own.

Wolfe Tone

SamSamSammy wrote: »

I was unsure who to vote for, but they've got my vote off the back of this. Excellent idea, can only help society.

Sorry to the p1$$ heads :pac:

How? How will it help? Everyone will just spend extra on beer, people wont go without.

SamSamSammy

Probably, I realise people are thick and would rather get drunk than pay bills. But hey each to their own.

I'm voting FG now though.

Lawrence1895

Shall we all drink nail polish now or what :pac:

Anyway, I can only stand certain politicians (including FG) when I'm drunk, I guess, I need an extra income, should they get into government :mad:

Duckworth_Luas

Did any of you guys actually read the OP. It says they want to stop below cost selling of alcohol. That's where a retailer buys a bottle of beer for €1 and sells it to the customer for €0.80 instead of charging the recommended retail price of €1.20. This is rarely done anyway and only for certain brands within a store. As a business model it's madness. If you like cheap pi$$ then you'll still be able to buy that cheap pi$$ at the same price as now.

The next government have a lot of hard work to do to save this country. If something as insignificant as this gets people all upset then I don't want to be around after the next budget.

FG have impressed me in that they seem to actually seem to have thought out some non-populist plans to get this $hithole working again.

hatrickpatrick

sdonn wrote: »

Excuse the OT but I'm gona reply to this.

Anti excesssive drink, more like. Ever walked through Dublin at 4am sober? It's like a bloody asylum. Not fun, not merry, a bloody kip.

I have NO problem with drink in moderation, but it's this whole ideaology of drinking purely to get off your rocker that boils my blood - you might as well be snorting coke.

The fact that you personally disapprove of a social situation does not make it the government's business.
Dammit, social conservatives piss me the HELL off. Live your life and don't tell anyone else how to live theirs.

freyners

Duckworth_Luas wrote:

As a business model it's madness

eh, no its not, its like any other deals on any other goods, they advertise a special prices on certain goods and when they get the customer in the doors, they re-coup the loss through impluse purchases.

its just like any buy one get one free, 3 for the price of two etc deals that you see in any shop/supermarket in Irelands, its a very good business model.

Whatever about the any social impacts this probably wont have regardless of what people say otherwise, this is wrong on the basis that shops should be free to charge whatever they want on goods as long as they can remain in business doing it. Keeps any price higher that what it COULD be only ****s up a market. Basic economics

Molloys Clondalkin

Fortune_Cookie wrote: »

Well they ain't getting my bloody vote then. And I don't see why the pubs & off licences can't buy in bulk and sell the drink cheap like the supermarkets do. Like the big chain ones like Molloy's and all the pubs the Fitzgerald Group owns should be able to do that.

Even though we sell cheap its still no match for the supermarkets, Take dunnes this weekend there selling smirnoff for less than there buying it for.
Its not just us who are losing out but every off licence in clondalkin thats about 35 people who work in that industry around the area.
we all cant work in Dunnes

whiteonion

Nodin wrote: »

A cross between protectionism and Nanny-in-a-blue-shirt statism, I'd imagine.

So because you don't like a nanny state should we allow heroin to be sold to children? On closer inspection maybe you support a nanny state too...

hatrickpatrick

whiteonion wrote: »

So because you don't like a nanny state should we allow heroin to be sold to children? On closer inspection maybe you support a nanny state too...

No. But I don't see anything wrong with selling it to adults. Personal freedom ftw. If they want to utterly destroy themselves it's still none of the government's business.

Duckworth_Luas

freyners wrote: »

eh, no its not, its like any other deals on any other goods, they advertise a special prices on certain goods and when they get the customer in the doors, they re-coup the loss through impluse purchases.

its just like any buy one get one free, 3 for the price of two etc deals that you see in any shop/supermarket in Irelands, its a very good business model.

Whatever about the any social impacts this probably wont have regardless of what people say otherwise, this is wrong on the basis that shops should be free to charge whatever they want on goods as long as they can remain in business doing it. Keeps any price higher that what it COULD be only ****s up a market. Basic economics

That's not what I meant. People here seem to be under the impression that all alcohol is sold below cost and that this proposal would cause all alcohol to be increased in price. I meant that no business sells all their alcohol below cost, to do so would be madness.

freyners

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

That's not what I meant. People here seem to be under the impression that all alcohol is sold below cost and that this proposal would cause all alcohol to be increased in price. I meant that no business sells all their alcohol below cost, to do so would be madness.

Sorry, I read it differently, apologies

seafood dunleavy

Sounds like a job for the beer baron.

hatrickpatrick

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

That's not what I meant. People here seem to be under the impression that all alcohol is sold below cost and that this proposal would cause all alcohol to be increased in price. I meant that no business sells all their alcohol below cost, to do so would be madness.

No, but it does mean being able to bulk buy crates at supermarkets for parties and such will be banned, and this is primarily what I have an issue with. Banning below cost selling effectively outlaws special offers.

I assume it would also screw nightclubs which open midweek with cheap drinks promos as well.

Namlub

Well this will solve everything...

Cool Mo D

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

No, but it does mean being able to bulk buy crates at supermarkets for parties and such will be banned, and this is primarily what I have an issue with. Banning below cost selling effectively outlaws special offers.

I assume it would also screw nightclubs which open midweek with cheap drinks promos as well.

No it doesn't. You are assuming all special offers are below cost - not necessarily true.

And it doesn't prevent supermarkets bulk buying larger-than-usual orders from suppliers at a discount, and selling them on at a discount.

rubadub

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

"Extra VAT yield from banning below cost selling of alcohol"

sdonn wrote: »

On a purely economic tangent - this goes back to the groceries order from years ago.....

2. There is a serious risk that by allowing alcohol to be sold extremely cheaply, smaller businesses could go out of business - especially independent off licences, resteraunts, vintners, publicans, and others.

So why not ban all below cost selling? -oh right because politicians do not own corner shops and are not mates with such retailers, protect themselves and fuck the rest.

What will interest me is how low they will continue to sell drink, publicans have come on here always claiming supermarkets are below cost selling, yet whenever I questioned them they could never back it up with proof. They quoted ridiculously high prices that they (the publicans) pay -I believe those prices, and I believe they are utter idiots to pay it. Other publicans in the past have said nothing can stop them buying from supermarkets. A publican can buy lidl brand beer and sell it in his pub.

I also pointed out a local centra was selling 20 heineken bottles for €15 (far lower than publican wholesale prices) yet I did not hear of any of my mates buy anything else there, not even a bar, let alone a weekly shop. So I do not believe they were selling below cost. This could be an eye opening situation, and leave the publicans unable to moan about the allegeded below cost selling -their pitiful excuse for some of their ridiculous prices.

sdonn wrote: »

just look at the mess that is the taxi situation.

Mess? I can get taxis easily these days, the way it should be.

ICE HOUSE

Disgraceful...... the curruption continues :mad:

Duckworth_Luas

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

No, but it does mean being able to bulk buy crates at supermarkets for parties and such will be banned, and this is primarily what I have an issue with. Banning below cost selling effectively outlaws special offers.

No it doesn't. It just means that retailers will have to charge more for beer than what they pay for it wholesale. I bought 15 bottles last night for €15, the off-license made a profit on this as it wasn't sold below cost. That's pretty damn cheap.

phasers

rubadub wrote: »

Mess? I can get taxis easily these days, the way it should be.

I think you know the OP doesn't mean it like that.

The industry needs a total overhaul, both from a driver's perspective and a passengers.


But that's for a different thread.

Morag

phasers wrote: »

I wonder if we'll ever see the emergence of "chain pubs" like Weatherspoons in the UK? It'd be interesting to see how publicans react to that!

Weatherspoons were looking to come in here and were going to put in 3 large pubs in dublin city centre but when they saw how it's all one big quango and circle jerk they changed their plans.

The vat on drink is shocking and the reason why people over here drink such muck and not the nicer tasting beer/wines/spirits. They don't want you drinking 2/3 5 to 7% beers or one really nice bottle of wine which is 5 euro in france/italy and fecking damn near 30 euro here, they want people drinking lost of nasty tasteless muck and there is only reason to do that and it's to get hammered.

Lower the vat and the prices and the prices in the pubs and get people drinking tasty beer and enjoying instead of skulling pints of piss water. Yes you will have a % of the population who end up being arseholes and ****ing up their lives but it's their choice.

El Siglo

sdonn wrote: »

I am somewhere between shocked, appalled, and wanting to break into a fit of laughter at some of the idiots in this thread who want to NOT vote for FG - not for any particular educated or economic reason, but purely because it'll mean their booze is a tad more expensive. The drink culture in this country SICKENS me so much I actually find it hard to put into words.

There's not a whole to do in this country, apart from playing football and having a few jars. Whether drinking or not is inherently wrong, that's the choice of the individual, the alternative is fascism... Which I'm sure FG are completely comfortable with...

On a purely economic tangent - this goes back to the groceries order from years ago - below cost selling of alcohol was a huge thing back then and it was eventually done away with when the groceries order was abolished; however it makes sense to ban it. For two main reasons:

1. If the likes of Tesco, Dunnes, Aldi, Lidl can sell alcohol extremely cheaply it will directly affect the propensity of the public to buy it in higher quantites, and thus to binge drink. Binge drinking has so many negative effects that this can only be best avoided.

Economies of scale is one thing, but people will actually buy more or less the same as they have always done since things went bad (i.e. since "staying in was the new going out", possibly less even) with the various taxes and reductions in social welfare. Which the blue-shirts will probably increase and reduce further, once they're in power. So saying that because of the activities of large retail outlets, we the consumer should bear the burden of the uncompetitiveness of smaller retail outlets is farcical.

2. There is a serious risk that by allowing alcohol to be sold extremely cheaply, smaller businesses could go out of business - especially independent off licences, resteraunts, vintners, publicans, and others. While this should ideally be regulated by the picture perfect idea of a free market economy, Irish people have proved that we are incapable of 100% self regulation in terms of competition - just look at the mess that is the taxi situation.

It shouldn't be regulated and vintners shouldn't be given the time of day by any government. They're private citizens like the rest of us. Besides, necessity is the mother of invention as Ester Boserup put it, perhaps by not shoring up the vintners, offies etc... that these retailers might then improve their services etc... in order to attract customers and stay competitive, and the ones that don't, deserve bankruptcy. It was all well and good for them to take the mickey of consumers during the boom years, when real business acumen is required they need government intervention. Pathetic.

In a perfect world, it should be allowed, the smaller off licences would have to compete or go out of business and that would be hunky dory. However the focus at present should be on protecting jobs - and given that our booze industry is so ridiculously dominant, it would be socially irresponsible to let so many small businesses and their associated jobs teter on the edge of liquidation. If we did, someone would only complain in a years' time that there are no jobs and FG did nothing about it.

I'd hardly think that the number of people being let go by publicans going out of business would even register as a blip on the radar. Especially when a 1,000 people per week are emigrating. If this were something like propping up Eircom or the ESB there would be some (not a lot either) justification, but it's not. Why should one group be protected and not another?

Without wanting to sound too Lenihan-esque, Government sometimes has to make unpopular decisions. Yes they do stand to gain VAT, but it hardly lines their own pockets - it pays for things we take for granted like FREE universal healthcare.

Taxing drink isn't going to pay for much, especially with the bailout. This is a petty little tax, like the one they proposed back in the 1990s on childrens shoes. Lenihan is an idiot, proven by his complete incompetence as Minister for Finance, I wouldn't want to sound like him in any sense of the word.

Sorry bout ye, but there's more to life than bloody drink. Some of you disgust me.

Well to be honest, you can come down off that fucking high horse. If people want to drink etc... That's their choice. We had people tell us what to do before and they were called the Catholic Church and look how that went. It's this mentality that people are inherently stupid and need to be coerced into doing things by one ridiculous government after another that really annoys me.

ScumLord

The cheapest place I've found for drink is my local Eurospar. I don't find the bid chains all that cheap at all, Eurospar is around a Euro cheaper then Tescos for a six pack of Guinness.

Tight margins and large bulk are the large chains bread and butter, that's how they do business, they are at war with the small local shop and it goes beyond alcohol. Why should the publican get a free pass when the butcher and shop keeper still have to scrape by?