Arsenal -v- Barça, Champions league Last 16 1st leg

cson · 15-02-2011 12:12am

I think the thread needs to stop getting caught up in the Johan Djourou issue.

Have Arsenal improved since the corresponding tie last year? Yes they have. Ultimately so have Barcelona as the winning streak in La Liga testifies to. Clearly Arsenal were extremely fortunate not to be beaten out the gate at home last year and actually played alright in Camp Nou allowing for the genius of Messi on that night.

The Arsenal teamsheet last year contained the likes of Silvestre, Rosicky, Almunia and Denilson one of whom has left and the rest of whom aren't near the first team at present. Equally Keita, Marquez and Ibra started for Barcelona, two of those aren't at the club anymore and the other isn't starting. For the first leg both teams are employing a full back they would rather not given the opposition I'm sure [Eboue and Maxwell] whilst Puyol and Vermaelen are out also. So essentially you could say it's as you were last year.

As an Arsenal fan I'd have to say that my opinion is that we are better equipped in terms of players and form to take on the Catalans but they are at a different level to us at present. As eZe described in an earlier post the way to play Barca is two tight banks of 4 and hit them on the break. Stuttgart in the same round this time last year employed these tactics and should have been at least 2 up at half time. Unfortunately we don't have a plan b like that given Arsene's commitment to the plan a of passing and movement.

[OT]Frustrating but somewhat understandable given the time and effort he has invested in it - other fans/pundits will use this as a stick to beat him with but ultimately we are where we are but for him; Arsenal are not a club that is habitually entitled to be winning trophies and this point is lost on many. We play a certain way, spend within our means and still compete. We don't have the stadium or brand of Manchester United or the oil dollars of Manchester City or Chelsea.[/OT]

Barcelona are 1/4 to qualify for a reason and I'd expect them to beat us over two legs. Depending on what way the tie goes that could be by 3 or 4 but I'd be quietly confident that we will give them a game and it will still be very much alive for the second leg. They are clear favourites for the competition outright and its very much justified based on form so far.

amacachi · 15-02-2011 12:21am

cson wrote: »

The Arsenal teamsheet last year contained the likes of Silvestre, Rosicky, Almunia and Denilson one of whom has left and the rest of whom aren't near the first team at present. Equally Keita, Marquez and Ibra started for Barcelona, two of those aren't at the club anymore and the other isn't starting. For the first leg both teams are employing a full back they would rather not given the opposition I'm sure [Eboue and Maxwell] whilst Puyol and Vermaelen are out also. So essentially you could say it's as you were last year.

Don't forget a fully fit Van Persie and Fabregas this year.

flahavaj · 15-02-2011 12:54am

Perhaps I put it a little ineloquently at lunchtime, I was in a bit of a rush. I think Arsenal will approach the game in a way thats pure suicide against Barca. They'll try to play them at their own game but they con't do it half as well as Barca can. Its true Arsenal had injuries last year, but Barca are also much much better this yesr than last.

Whatever about Djourou, I think the guys they bought in the Summer at centre half are a bit sh*t tbh.

shano_88 · 15-02-2011 1:05am

flahavaj wrote: »

Perhaps I put it a little ineloquently at lunchtime, I was in a bit of a rush. I think Arsenal will approach the game in a way thats pure suicide against Barca. They'll try to play them at their own game but they con't do it half as well as Barca can. Its true Arsenal had injuries last year, but Barca are also much much better this yesr than last.

Whatever about Djourou, I think the guys they bought in the Summer at centre half are a bit sh*t tbh.

Ill agree that trying to play Barca at there own game is probably suicide. Unfortunately, I dont think we can play any other way and that will probably cost us in this tie. With the squad we have, I do think we have a shot with a bit of luck.

Squallaci has been muck. But Kosceinly has steadily improved as the season has gone on and has been fairly solid beside Djourou. They compliment each other very well imo. He is still prone to brainfarts though and they just cannot happen against a team with the quality of Barca.

spiralism · 15-02-2011 1:37am

Everyone knows that there is only one way to get anything from Barcelona and it's to approach the game the way Inter/Herculés/Gijon have against them in the last year.

Though pretty much everone here doubts that Wenger will try this as he views it as anti-football and therefore abhorrent. Doubt the players would be able to at any rate as they only know how to play the game the Wenger way.

Backline nonwithstanding, if Arsenal try and beat Barca at their own game, it will not end well. Not least because the style of football Arsenal would play would most likely involve playing a high defensive line, which is total and utter suicide against Barcelona, no two ways about it.

Though I rate Djourou, he could be seriously weakened by association as he will be partnered against Koscielny (temperament issues) and Squillaci (shíte tbh, sorry). It only takes one mistake and neither of these played against Barca last time out IIRC.

I'm not writing Arsenal off though, there's a reason you play the matches and Barca showed a slight sign of a dip in form at the weekend... having said that, if Wenger manages to pull this off, it will be one of his finest moments as Arsenal manager

L'prof · 15-02-2011 11:25am

spiralism wrote: »

Everyone knows that there is only one way to get anything from Barcelona and it's to approach the game the way Inter/Herculés/Gijon have against them in the last year.

Though pretty much everone here doubts that Wenger will try this as he views it as anti-football and therefore abhorrent. Doubt the players would be able to at any rate as they only know how to play the game the Wenger way.

I don't think Arsenal have to or will even dream of playing "anti-football" to get some success against Barca tomorrow night. What we do need to do however is pressurise Barca everytime they're on the ball over the 2 legs like we did against United & Chelsea earlier in the season. It worked very well then and would indicate to me that we can indeed play the game "another way".

eZe^ · 15-02-2011 11:33am

L'prof wrote: »

I don't think Arsenal have to or will even dream of playing "anti-football" to get some success against Barca tomorrow night. What we do need to do however is pressurise Barca everytime they're on the ball over the 2 legs like we did against United & Chelsea earlier in the season. It worked very well then and would indicate to me that we can indeed play the game "another way".

At home I agree. Wenger won't abandon his philosophy which is commendable, and of course, if it works out and you go through the tie then he'll be lauded as a genius. Either way should be an entertaining game, I'm hoping we can play like we did in the first half last year, or like we did against Madrid a few months ago, if that happens we'll win comfortably. Otherwise, I'd be delighted with a score draw to bring back to the Camp Nou.

Frisbee · 15-02-2011 11:48am

Two solid banks of four playing narrow is the way to beat Barca. However we don't have the players to do that and even if you do pull it off perfectly there's every chance Messi/Xavi/Iniesta will have one moment of brilliance and get a goal. We could try and do what Inter did last year, but Wenger, rightly or wrongly, won't change his philosophy and even if we did we don't have the right type of personnel to pull it off.

eZe^ · 15-02-2011 12:47pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gojjN7cu4Fk

Frisbee · 15-02-2011 1:37pm

Nasri passed fitness tests yesterday and today and is currently training with the squad.

While it would be great to have him it's hard to believe he could get over a hamstring injury that quickly and I'd be very very cautious of playing him. We've all been there ourselves, if you have an important game coming up you always want to play and you'll say you're fine even if you can't walk with pain.

15-02-2011 1:40pm

I'm pretty sure he'll come on for 15-20 minutes

L'prof · 15-02-2011 1:46pm

Frisbee wrote: »

Nasri passed fitness tests yesterday and today and is currently training with the squad.

iMuse · 15-02-2011 1:52pm

With all this build up it wouldnt surprise me if it was 0-0

amacachi · 15-02-2011 1:55pm

I'd stick Nasri on towards the end for Fabregas. He always has far more impact when Fab isn't about and it's impact at the end we'll probably want.

CorkMan · 15-02-2011 2:04pm

spiralism wrote: »

Though I rate Djourou, he could be seriously weakened by association as he will be partnered against Koscielny (temperament issues) and Squillaci (shíte tbh, sorry). It only takes one mistake and neither of these played against Barca last time out IIRC.

I'm not writing Arsenal off though, there's a reason you play the matches and Barca showed a slight sign of a dip in form at the weekend... having said that, if Wenger manages to pull this off, it will be one of his finest moments as Arsenal manager

They won 10 games away in a row, scoring 36 goals in those games. A draw away to Sporting Gijon (who are 13th) doesn't indicate a dip in form. A thorn in the "Almighty Barca" model yes but not in reality.

I've been thinking and I can see Barca coming down from 2-0 down to win 3-2.

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 15-02-2011 2:26pm

spiralism wrote: »

Everyone knows that there is only one way to get anything from Barcelona and it's to approach the game the way Inter/Herculés/Gijon have against them in the last year.

Though pretty much everone here doubts that Wenger will try this as he views it as anti-football and therefore abhorrent. Doubt the players would be able to at any rate as they only know how to play the game the Wenger way.

Backline nonwithstanding, if Arsenal try and beat Barca at their own game, it will not end well. Not least because the style of football Arsenal would play would most likely involve playing a high defensive line, which is total and utter suicide against Barcelona, no two ways about it.

Though I rate Djourou, he could be seriously weakened by association as he will be partnered against Koscielny (temperament issues) and Squillaci (shíte tbh, sorry). It only takes one mistake and neither of these played against Barca last time out IIRC.

I'm not writing Arsenal off though, there's a reason you play the matches and Barca showed a slight sign of a dip in form at the weekend... having said that, if Wenger manages to pull this off, it will be one of his finest moments as Arsenal manager

The thing is that its likely that Barca will have more possession and be pressuring high up the field for the most of the game anyway so Arsenal will have to play deeper to defend no matter what, and then play on the break. Unless Arsenal have the ball they can't really play the way they normally do.

Koscielny has been great when partnered with Djourou recently. I don't know what you mean about temperament issues, unless you're referring to how he is aggressive in trying to win the ball back? He is a very good tackler but he won't be able to get the ball off the Barca players as he usually would against other teams.This may actually be a concern because if he goes out of position chasing Messi or whoever to try and win the ball we could get caught out.

Nononolan · 15-02-2011 2:30pm

Unbeaten in the champions league but did draw away from home twice to Copenhagen and Kazan so you never know.

gosplan · 15-02-2011 2:31pm

This is a very very unpredictable match as both teams are in great form and both teams have lots of goals in them.

Arsenal needs to pressurise Barca all over the pitch and take their chances when they come. After that they need to hope their last ditch defending and luck holds out.

iMuse · 15-02-2011 2:38pm

3 Key men for Arsenal, Great to see Samir back training

Roaster · 15-02-2011 2:56pm

Nasri in squad

Blatter · 15-02-2011 3:31pm

gosplan wrote: »

This is a very very unpredictable match as both teams are in great form and both teams have lots of goals in them.

Arsenal needs to pressurise Barca all over the pitch and take their chances when they come. After that they need to hope their last ditch defending and luck holds out.

It's fairly predictable from where I'm sitting anyway.
I'd be amazed if barca came away from London in anything else but a comfortable position.

DH2K9 · 15-02-2011 3:39pm

I think because it is the Last 16 could benefit Arsenal as it won't be as big a game than a quarter or semi final 2 legged affair. Will be tough game for us but if we give ourselves some sort of advantage from the 1st leg then we have every chance of winning it.

yahoo_moe · 15-02-2011 4:22pm

Arsenal training pictures from today.

Fabregas, Eboue, Clichy, Koscielny and RVP (all definite starters) in yellow bibs.

Sagna (suspended) and Arshavin in purple bibs.

Nasri in a yellow bib... I wonder.

dfx- · 15-02-2011 4:24pm

spiralism wrote: »

Everyone knows that there is only one way to get anything from Barcelona and it's to approach the game the way Inter/Herculés/Gijon have against them in the last year.

I'd bet there's a lot more teams than just those three who have tried the exact same thing and failed. It's not a failsafe way.

The best team to play Barcelona so far in the last year was Espanyol. They lost 5-1. At home. Inter wouldn't be even second, Hercules would be, then Bilbao in the Copa and then Betis in the Copa.

spiralism · 15-02-2011 4:38pm

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

The thing is that its likely that Barca will have more possession and be pressuring high up the field for the most of the game anyway so Arsenal will have to play deeper to defend no matter what, and then play on the break. Unless Arsenal have the ball they can't really play the way they normally do.

Koscielny has been great when partnered with Djourou recently. I don't know what you mean about temperament issues, unless you're referring to how he is aggressive in trying to win the ball back? He is a very good tackler but he won't be able to get the ball off the Barca players as he usually would against other teams.This may actually be a concern because if he goes out of position chasing Messi or whoever to try and win the ball we could get caught out.

I mean temperament issues in that he's slightly susceptible to making errors, be it him going out of position chasing players or by lack of discipline, as evidenced by 2 red cards this season and instances where he has given braindead fouls away. He will not get away with either against Barca.

dfx- wrote: »

I'd bet there's a lot more teams than just those three who have tried the exact same thing and failed. It's not a failsafe way.

The best team to play Barcelona so far in the last year was Espanyol. They lost 5-1. At home. Inter wouldn't be even second, Hercules would be, then Bilbao in the Copa and then Betis in the Copa.

You would be surprised at the amount of teams that don't try the same tactics in la liga against Barca... Hercules did very well first time out but tried a more open attacking style second time out....and lost 3-0 at home. Though there are examples yeah of teams employing good tactics against Barca and still getting thrashed, as evidenced by Espanyol and Osasuna's home performances against them. Bilbao in the Copa did a great job to be fair though, i wouldnt read much into Betis as the game was a dead rubber with Barca 5-0 up from the 1st leg. And to be fair, Inter set the benchmark in San Siro last year, as it's still their highest profile defeat under Guardiola to date by some way.

In two minds about how this goes, one part of me thinks Arsenal will put forward one of their best performances and Barca a sub par one, with Arsenal getting a good/decent result, the other sees Barca playing at the level they have been for the past few months (with the possible exception of the gijon match) and putting the tie to bed in tomorrows match. wait and see i suppose...

dfx- · 15-02-2011 5:08pm

Hercules did the same thing the second time out and were only 1-0 down until the 88th minute and beginning to threaten. It just didn't work. Mallorca's 1-1 draw was better than Inter's performance, for example. Their attacking game in the San Siro just got them through. Had they played very defensive on both occasions, they'd have fallen. The game against Espanyol was probably Barca's lowest possession tally of the season - that or Hercules away.

The best chance against Barcelona is to attack, not defend. There's plenty of examples of good results against them, just very very few 0-0s, you have to score..

cson · 15-02-2011 10:53pm

Nasri "fully fit" according to his Twitter.

So who to pick? Arsene isn't going to change tactics against them so on that basis if we're to beat them we simply have to score more than them and hope Chesney, DJ and Kos have career games. So going by that...

Chesney

Eboué

Djourou

Koscielny

Clichy

Wilshere

Song

Walcott

Fabregas

Nasri

RVP

We're underdogs anyway so no-one will be surprised if we get beat so **** it and throw caution to the wind and go for. It'll make for a good match at worst.

Raskolnikov · 15-02-2011 11:25pm

Arsenal will be taught a lesson in football tomorrow night. 3-1, I think.

KeithAFC · 15-02-2011 11:56pm

iMuse wrote: »

3 Key men for Arsenal, Great to see Samir back training

I get that buzz when i see them like i got with Henry, Pires and Bergkamp. Pure quality.

cson · 15-02-2011 11:59pm

Raskolnikov wrote: »

Arsenal will be taught a lesson in football tomorrow night. 3-1, I think.

Sure most of them should still be in school anyway, and who better to learn lessons of than Barcelona?

the untitled user · 16-02-2011 12:08am

The closer we come to kick off the less I care what the score is tomorrow night. Just looking forward to a great game of football between two teams that emphasize technique above all!

Dolph Starbeam · 16-02-2011 12:58am

the untitled user wrote: »

The closer we come to kick off the less I care what the score is tomorrow night. Just looking forward to a great game of football between two teams that emphasize technique above all!

Have to agree, 2 teams that know how to play football in the right way, i really can't wait for this and i hope both teams play there best, should be a cracker of a game and will be a joy to watch.

shano_88 · 16-02-2011 1:07am

Im starting to get nervous already!

Thoughts of the first 20 minutes at the emirates last year scare me.

amacachi · 16-02-2011 4:01am

cson wrote: »

Nasri "fully fit" according to his Twitter.

So who to pick? Arsene isn't going to change tactics against them so on that basis if we're to beat them we simply have to score more than them and hope Chesney, DJ and Kos have career games. So going by that...
Chesney

Eboué
Djourou
Koscielny
Clichy
Wilshere
Song

Walcott
Fabregas
Nasri
RVP

We're underdogs anyway so no-one will be surprised if we get beat so **** it and throw caution to the wind and go for. It'll make for a good match at worst.

Wouldn't waste Nasri with Fab on. He may be "fully fit" but he ain't matchfit.

16-02-2011 4:22am

Defo see Arsh start.

Frisbee · 16-02-2011 9:22am

Woj

Eboué

Djourou

Koscielny

Clichy

Wilshere

Song

Walcott

Fabregas

Arshavin

RVP

Even if Nasri is fit I'd go with that. A game this big any player is going to be desperate to play in it. If needed he can be brought on at HT, but playing him tonight stinks of taking a risk because he's in form, and could damage the rest of our season.

DOC09UNAM · 16-02-2011 9:24am

That lineup looks dangerous, and if they can use Walcott effectively against Maxwell, it could turn out to be a very good game.

Really looking forward to it.

everdead.ie · 16-02-2011 10:00am

This is going to be a great match up at the end of the day it's 11 v 11 and either side could go through but Barca are my favourites to progress.

FearDark · 16-02-2011 10:02am

Cant wait for this tonight, how can you stop Barca scoring, how can you stop Arsenal scoring? Two attacking sides going for it, this will be brilliant! C'mon Arsenal!!

Ush1 · 16-02-2011 10:16am

Can Messi do it on a cold night in London?:p

Frisbee · 16-02-2011 10:17am

Doesn't like it up him.

Too tippy tappy.

Mister men · 16-02-2011 10:25am

Ush1 wrote: »

Can Messi do it on a cold night in London?:p

Course he can. Just not againest Stoke.:D

FearDark · 16-02-2011 10:27am

Thank god Andy Gray is gone!

greendom · 16-02-2011 10:48am

Mister men wrote: »

Course he can. Just not againest Stoke.:D

That reminds me of a pretty good article from the Guardian last Saturday

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/feb/12/barcelona-english-football

Paully D · 16-02-2011 11:00am

FearDark wrote: »

Thank god Andy Gray is gone!

Very true. Who's now going to tell us how ''Messi would struggle on a cold night against Stoke''?

smokedeels · 16-02-2011 11:03am

the untitled user wrote: »

The closer we come to kick off the less I care what the score is tomorrow night. Just looking forward to a great game of football between two teams that emphasize technique above all!

this,

I'm happy that I'm a neutral in this game, I'm just going to enjoy the football on display, which should be top drawer.

redout · 16-02-2011 11:26am

Can't understand all this talk about Maxwell and being a weak link. He has been nothing but a rock this seaon and if anything is better than last. He has been pretty much a regular this season playing as much as Abidal. Seems like ill informed stereotypical judgements from people who wouldn't see him play regularly same as we get with Puyol.

Ush1 · 16-02-2011 11:34am

redout wrote: »

Can't understand all this talk about Maxwell and being a weak link. He has been nothing but a rock this seaon and if anything is better than last. He has been pretty much a regular this season playing as much as Abidal. Seems like ill informed stereotypical judgements from people who wouldn't see him play regularly same as we get with Puyol.

I rate Maxwell but he will be pushing up and Walcott has the pace to exploit him, that's just a fact.

DOC09UNAM · 16-02-2011 11:34am

redout wrote: »

Can't understand all this talk about Maxwell and being a weak link. He has been nothing but a rock this seaon and if anything is better than last. He has been pretty much a regular this season playing as much as Abidal. Seems like ill informed stereotypical judgements from people who wouldn't see him play regularly same as we get with Puyol.

Who would you say is the weakest link in the Barca back four then??

Also, how is it stereotypical?

redout · 16-02-2011 11:48am

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Who would you say is the weakest link in the Barca back four then??

Also, how is it stereotypical?

Talk about Walcott and pace can be made for practically all defenders bar someone like A.Cole in truth.

Barca back four ain't weak for starters - if was then they would concede far more goals than they do regardless of having the bulk of possession. Abidal at CB is more of a concern than Maxwell making a bollox of things. Adriano and Milito would be considered weak this season but Inlikely either will be starting. It's stereotypical in the sense many are branding him a weak link without even seeing him play on a regular basis same as what happens with Puyol. Notion in someones head about someone else without really having a full knowledge is stereotypical.

Arsenal -v- Barça, Champions league Last 16 1st leg

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