Farming Chit Chat

Tipp Man

Black Smoke wrote: »

I almost agree with you but not quite.
The costs should be based on weanling produced or brought successfully to weaning stage. That's because you may keep some for replacements.
So lets say, 20 cows. One dead calf. 19 weaned. 17 sold.
Total costs should be divided by 19. That's my logic in any case.

Your output is your sale animal be it weanling or fat bull etc. Keeping calves for replacement is a huge cost that gets hidden in your method of calculations. IMO it makes more sense to attribute costs to unit of output sold as Just Do It was saying - to more accurately reflect how your whole suckler operation is doing (assuming static numbers)

In your example say 50% of your herd didn't go in calf 1 year - costs are 500 each and sale is 900 each - so you keep 9 weanlings, 1 died and you sold 10 - you would attribute the costs to the entire 19 weanlings meaning you think you have made a profit of 400 per weanling but when you look at it on a total level you actually have a loss:

Sales: 10 x 900 = 9,000
Costs: 19 x 500 = 9,500
Loss: = 500

And it is the bottom line that matters most

Juniorhurler

just do it wrote: »

Good returns there juniorhurler, particularly given the difficult summer. It's easy have 1 or 2 good ones but to average over the €1,000/head is great going:).

Ah when the rest are sold there just do it the average will probably be very different. There are roughly 40 more to go with some narrow hoors on it too. I am kind of only piggy backing onto the auld lads knowledge and the farming system he has spent 35 years building up. 9 of those were his including the best heifer and the two best bulls so its not me that really deserves the credit.

Juniorhurler

1chippy wrote: »

I know these are really back of cig box calculations and open for critiscm but when they are there its kinda of shocking to think of the investment in land time and pure hassle it would make you wonder why?

I agree with everything that you are saying there 1 chippy in this paragraph.
I work with a fella on about 90 acres of his own farming it part time calving sucklers and bringing them through to a finish. In 1998 he was renting another 160 acres from 5 different "farmers".
Each of the 5 bought a brand new car in 98 while he struggled to with three kids under 5.
He never rented another acre and went back to college part time and is now in a good job since 2004 and selling 55 weanlings a year and by his calculations about 3 times better off financially.

Black Smoke

Tipp Man wrote: »

Your output is your sale animal be it weanling or fat bull etc. Keeping calves for replacement is a huge cost that gets hidden in your method of calculations. IMO it makes more sense to attribute costs to unit of output sold as Just Do It was saying - to more accurately reflect how your whole suckler operation is doing (assuming static numbers)

In your example say 50% of your herd didn't go in calf 1 year - costs are 500 each and sale is 900 each - so you keep 9 weanlings, 1 died and you sold 10 - you would attribute the costs to the entire 19 weanlings meaning you think you have made a profit of 400 per weanling but when you look at it on a total level you actually have a loss:

Sales: 10 x 900 = 9,000
Costs: 19 x 500 = 9,500
Loss: = 500

And it is the bottom line that matters most

What do you expect, with 50% not going in calf? A loss!!!

Do this sum for me.

You have 20 cows.
All calf, ok and all go back in calf ok.
You have 10 heifers, which you decide to keep back because you want to expand the herd.
You have 10 bull weanlings which you sell at €900 each.
Yur total costs for the year were €500 per cow.

So as follows.

Cost 20 cows at €500 each €10,000
Sales 10 bull calves at €900 each €9,000

Ten heifer weanlings kept for breeding and herd expansion.

Tell me, has this farmer mead a profit or a loss?

I say he has made a good profit, but negative cash flow.

What do you think?

Dont be daft

I asked a well known and highly effecient suckler farmer what it was to keep a cow and he quoted 600.

He's based in Laois and runs a continental suckler herd of LM cows and BB/LM bulls. Dont wanna name him, but his initials are RT.

If its costing him 600 I can't imagine there's lads doing it for less.

Tipp Man

Black Smoke wrote: »

What do you expect, with 50% not going in calf? A loss!!!

Do this sum for me.

You have 20 cows.
All calf, ok and all go back in calf ok.
You have 10 heifers, which you decide to keep back because you want to expand the herd.
You have 10 bull weanlings which you sell at €900 each.
Yur total costs for the year were €500 per cow.

So as follows.

Cost 20 cows at €500 each €10,000
Sales 10 bull calves at €900 each €9,000

Ten heifer weanlings kept for breeding and herd expansion.

Tell me, has this farmer mead a profit or a loss?

I say he has made a good profit, but negative cash flow.

What do you think?

You'll have some job convincing your bank manager that that's a profit not even the tax man would be billing you for that:D

Now it is a loss for a good reason - but in the current year it's a loss

But i am interested on how/why you class it as a profit??

Black Smoke

Tipp Man wrote: »

You'll have some job convincing your bank manager that that's a profit not even the tax man would be billing you for that:D

Now it is a loss for a good reason - but in the current year it's a loss

But i am interested on how/why you class it as a profit??

I think Lakill who comes on here is an accountant, and he would explain better.

My understanding is that the change in value of your stock from day 1 of the year (opening stock), less the value of the stock at the end of the year (closing stock) is an intrinsic part of the calculation of your gross profit!

If you retain heifers for breeding your stock value goes up!
It's negative for cash flow, but positive for paper profit calculation!

bob charles

Black Smoke wrote: »

What do you expect, with 50% not going in calf? A loss!!!

Do this sum for me.

You have 20 cows.
All calf, ok and all go back in calf ok.
You have 10 heifers, which you decide to keep back because you want to expand the herd.
You have 10 bull weanlings which you sell at €900 each.
Yur total costs for the year were €500 per cow.

So as follows.

Cost 20 cows at €500 each €10,000
Sales 10 bull calves at €900 each €9,000

Ten heifer weanlings kept for breeding and herd expansion.

Tell me, has this farmer mead a profit or a loss?

I say he has made a good profit, but negative cash flow.

What do you think?

20 live calves sold/replacements from 20 cows year on year, yeah right, I would give a medal to anyone who can do it

Black Smoke

bob charles wrote: »

20 live calves sold/replacements from 20 cows year on year, yeah right, I would give a medal to anyone who can do it

This is a one year theoretical snap shot!:p
How the replacements in this case are handled on paper, when calculating profit or loss is the question?

Tipp Man

Black Smoke wrote: »

I think Lakill who comes on here is an accountant, and he would explain better.

My understanding is that the change in value of your stock from day 1 of the year (opening stock), less the value of the stock at the end of the year (closing stock) is an intrinsic part of the calculation of your gross profit!

If you retain heifers for breeding your stock value goes up!
It's negative for cash flow, but positive for paper profit calculation!

Your thinking is correct technically but paper profit is the greatest load of crap ever and nothing will make a man go broke quicker than paper profit but negative cashflow

Cash is king in nearly every business in the world and for good reason

I tell you how we calculate our profit - on Jan 1st we empty our current account - then ins and outs during the year including tax - whatever is left at 31st December is your real profit - that's how you see if they are really making money - no arbitary numbers like depreciation, stock values and there are a million more. The only thing we use these for is to keep the tax cost down

Not saying its right but thats the way we look at it

darragh_haven

bob charles wrote: »

take Junior hurlers the first bull calf at 410 kilos, feed for 150 days at €3 a day = €450 + €75 costs for everything else dosing/vaccines/mortality/interest/haulage/labour = €525 + sale price tonight €1190 = total cost €1715.

after 150 days he would be 650kilos (say 1.6lwg) with a KO of 58% = 377kilos @ €4 a kilo = €1508.

I know my figures are rough but, Do the sensible thing :D

We buy in excess of 100 stores per year and have a strict grass based system (less than 8 ton of rashin brought last year). all winter housing is long paid for, as is all the machinery.
If we don't get €200 profit/head/year, the farm would be rented out (130 acres of good grazing @ €180 = €23,400) . We don't take one year for the accounts, we average it out over 3 years, if it drops below 200 euro, look at where costs can be squeezed or end product price increased. If you cant find anything, there is hard decisions to be made.
While my dad is still the brains of the operation, he is "officially retired", but he sees that the farm is bringing in less than €25,000 a year and said to me, not give up the day job. Even tho we operate at substantially better figures than bob has posted..... I just may have to do the sensible thing;)

Just saw Tipp mans post, thats the way we calculate profit too (with out actually emptying the account)

KCTK

Black Smoke wrote: »

This is a one year theoretical snap shot!:p
How the replacements in this case are handled on paper, when calculating profit or loss is the question?

From a pure accounting point of view you are correct that this farm would show a "profit" in its accounts due to the increase in stock due to keeping the heifers in the year. From a tax point of view this "profit" would be reduced by 25% for your tax comp due to stock relief (100% if just after taking over the farm). So you are correct in technically saying there is a profit, but as we all agree cash is king so saying you have a book profit at the end of the year and no actual money in the bank ait much good when you go to the shop.

In reality making a profit means SFA, many "profitable" businesses go bust every year (eg Target delievery gang a few weeks ago). Having cash to pay bills and survive out of your "profit" is the most important thing.

Sorry for all the " " around "profits" but profit is really only an accounting concept for measuring how you are doing, CASH is the KING

Black Smoke

KCTK wrote: »

From a pure accounting point of view you are correct that this farm would show a "profit" in its accounts due to the increase in stock due to keeping the heifers in the year. From a tax point of view this "profit" would be reduced by 25% for your tax comp due to stock relief (100% if just after taking over the farm). So you are correct in technically saying there is a profit, but as we all agree cash is king so saying you have a book profit at the end of the year and no actual money in the bank ait much good when you go to the shop.

In reality making a profit means SFA, many "profitable" businesses go bust every year (eg Target delievery gang a few weeks ago). Having cash to pay bills and survive out of your "profit" is the most important thing.

Sorry for all the " " around "profits" but profit is really only an accounting concept for measuring how you are doing, CASH is the KING

I agree with you totally. I said as much, when I said it's negative cash flow!
One thing I'm not sure about though, is how you value the extra stock kept back, before deducting the 25% stock relief!!
Do you value at market value or cost of production That always confuses me a bit.

KCTK

Black Smoke wrote: »

I agree with you totally. I said as much, when I said it's negative cash flow!
One thing I'm not sure about though, is how you value the extra stock kept back, before deducting the 25% stock relief!!
Do you value at market value or cost of production That always confuses me a bit.

Haha, now there is a good question, the general rule of thumb is that cattle you breed yourself are valued at 60% of their Market Value in your accounts (accounting rule on stock is that it should be reflected at lower of cost or Net realisable Value so using 60% of market value is supposed to give you rough estimate of cost).

Where the fun can come in is in what are those cattle you breed yourself actually worth as you are only really estimating what you think the amount is. Room there to adjust your "profit/loss" up and down in a year....

Black Smoke

KCTK wrote: »

Haha, now there is a good question, the general rule of thumb is that cattle you breed yourself are valued at 60% of their Market Value in your accounts (accounting rule on stock is that it should be reflected at lower of cost or Net realisable Value so using 60% of market value is supposed to give you rough estimate of cost).

Where the fun can come in is in what are those cattle you breed yourself actually worth as you are only really estimating what you think the amount is. Room there to adjust your "profit/loss" up and down in a year....

Thank you ............ It's funny the way I keep my best heifers only for replacements. When I smoke my pipe at year end, and look at them for valuation purposes I see nothing but pot bellies, and narrow arses:cool:

KCTK

Black Smoke wrote: »

Thank you ............ It's funny the way I keep my best heifers only for replacements. When I smoke my pipe at year end, and look at them for valuation purposes I see nothing but pot bellies, and narrow arses:cool:

too right

bbam

redzerologhlen wrote: »

The 460 was including the cost of rearing the calf and was including the price of selling the culls. All the costs associated with keeping the cattle were included.

Wow.
I don't mean to have a go or knock the work of your group but it seems very low. It must be base on a very large herd size where economy of scale is the key.

redzerologhlen

bbam wrote: »

Wow.
I don't mean to have a go or knock the work of your group but it seems very low. It must be base on a very large herd size where economy of scale is the key.

Most of our group are outwintering on the burren so fodder costs would be a good bit lower than the rest of the country.

reilig

bbam wrote: »

Wow.
I don't mean to have a go or knock the work of your group but it seems very low. It must be base on a very large herd size where economy of scale is the key.

Did he not say that it was in the Burren? ie. Less housing required, lower feed costs, better animal health because outdoors etc. ??

bbam

reilig wrote: »

Did he not say that it was in the Burren? ie. Less housing required, lower feed costs, better animal health because outdoors etc. ??

Indeed, I forgot.
Got stuck on the number and missed the detail.

Muckit

KCTK wrote: »

In reality making a profit means SFA...

SFA..? Sound Financial Acumen?

bob charles

darragh_haven wrote: »

We buy in excess of 100 stores per year and have a strict grass based system (less than 8 ton of rashin brought last year). all winter housing is long paid for, as is all the machinery.
If we don't get €200 profit/head/year, the farm would be rented out (130 acres of good grazing @ €180 = €23,400) . We don't take one year for the accounts, we average it out over 3 years, if it drops below 200 euro, look at where costs can be squeezed or end product price increased. If you cant find anything, there is hard decisions to be made.
While my dad is still the brains of the operation, he is "officially retired", but he sees that the farm is bringing in less than €25,000 a year and said to me, not give up the day job. Even tho we operate at substantially better figures than bob has posted..... I just may have to do the sensible thing;)

Just saw Tipp mans post, thats the way we calculate profit too (with out actually emptying the account)

You boys must be very very shrewd farmers as to make 200 clear on animals a year is close on impossible. I presume you are excluding an SFP in your calculations. The industry standard nowadays for finishing farms is somewhere around €50 an animal after all expenses.

rancher

bob charles wrote: »

You boys must be very very shrewd farmers as to make 200 clear on animals a year is close on impossible. I presume you are excluding an SFP in your calculations. The industry standard nowadays for finishing farms is somewhere around €50 an animal after all expenses.

Looked impossible to me too......was nearly going to cash the sheep

Kevin1150

bob charles wrote: »

You boys must be very very shrewd farmers as to make 200 clear on animals a year is close on impossible. I presume you are excluding an SFP in your calculations. The industry standard nowadays for finishing farms is somewhere around €50 an animal after all expenses.

200per/head/yr is quite realistic. Don't see why not.

Store bullock 1200€
Costs (1 winter and 1 summer) 300€
430kg dead @(3.90+0.06 QA) c/kg 1700€

=200 clear profit:cool:

Tipp Man

bob charles wrote: »

You boys must be very very shrewd farmers as to make 200 clear on animals a year is close on impossible. I presume you are excluding an SFP in your calculations. The industry standard nowadays for finishing farms is somewhere around €50 an animal after all expenses.

The problem is Bob that guys are pumping nuts and fodder into bulls at huge rates and huge costs and are left with feck all - they then need a large turnover of animals to make any kind of money. Its a vicious circle.

Darragh is doing 200 because i would imagine he is spending hardly anything only silage and vetinary on them and not much else. In fact if he has silage to buy back cattle this autumn he'll do a whole lot better than 200

We are making 180 on small store cattle buying in the spring and selling in the autumn - zero fertiliser spread (apart from reseed) - only costs are mart fees, transport (our own) 2 doses and TB test. No sheds needed, no silage needed, definately no nuts needed, feck all in costs and feck all work. Admittedly it could be a very tough year this year as the arse has fallen out of the market - but this is the first year in 10 we have gotten caught - and we haven't sold an animal yet so we haven't actually been caught yet but with the arse after falling out of the market we more than likely won't make much

Fellas would be better off with less animals, less turnover of animals and making more per animal IMO

rancher

Kevin1150 wrote: »

200per/head/yr is quite realistic. Don't see why not.

Store bullock 1200€
Costs (1 winter and 1 summer) 300€
430kg dead @(3.90+0.06 QA) c/kg 1700€

=200 clear profit:cool:

Would be good going to get a 100 bullocks from 410 liveweight average to 430 deadweight in a year.....have to double his weight..1.1kg day gain or is my maths way out
what about fixed costs, accountany, farm insurance , machinery repair, etc

Kevin1150

rancher wrote: »

Would be good going to get a 100 bullocks from 410 liveweight average to 430 deadweight in a year.....have to double his weight..1.1kg day gain or is my maths way out
what about fixed costs, accountany, farm insurance , machinery repair, etc

410??
A store, say 480kg liveweight, at 2.50c/kg =1200€

Everyone has different fixed costs so cant work out per head...previous poster said buildings/machinery well depreciated so will be lower than average

Black Smoke

Tipp Man wrote: »

bob charles wrote: »

You boys must be very very shrewd farmers as to make 200 clear on animals a year is close on impossible. I presume you are excluding an SFP in your calculations. The industry standard nowadays for finishing farms is somewhere around €50 an animal after all expenses.

The problem is Bob that guys are pumping nuts and fodder into bulls at huge rates and huge costs and are left with feck all - they then need a large turnover of animals to make any kind of money. Its a vicious circle.

Darragh is doing 200 because i would imagine he is spending hardly anything only silage and vetinary on them and not much else. In fact if he has silage to buy back cattle this autumn he'll do a whole lot better than 200

We are making 180 on small store cattle buying in the spring and selling in the autumn - zero fertiliser spread (apart from reseed) - only costs are mart fees, transport (our own) 2 doses and TB test. No sheds needed, no silage needed, definately no nuts needed, feck all in costs and feck all work. Admittedly it could be a very tough year this year as the arse has fallen out of the market - but this is the first year in 10 we have gotten caught - and we haven't sold an animal yet so we haven't actually been caught yet but with the arse after falling out of the market we more than likely won't make much

Fellas would be better off with less animals, less turnover of animals and making more per animal IMO

Tipp Man,

Are you in the golden vale? Have you that kind of land, that can drive growth and thrive on store cattle?
Not everybody has land capable of growing stores on summer grass and summer grass alone! Even with fertiliser! Just can't be done!

PS. I tried it unsuccessfully for a few years, and my land wouldn't be the worst by a long shot.
One big draw back I found, was buying in cattle, from various sources and then getting locked up with TB! Nightmare!

Changed to suckling 15 years ago. Keep my own replacements. Buy only a bull when I need to. Haven't seen TB since.

On other hand, glad I have a day job -:)

Tipp Man

Kevin1150 wrote: »

410??
A store, say 480kg liveweight, at 2.50c/kg =1200€

Everyone has different fixed costs so cant work out per head...previous poster said buildings/machinery well depreciated so will be lower than average

Your right - you'd get some bullock in the mart today for 1200

Personally we buy a bit lighter and sell a bit lighter but agree with what you are saying

Tipp Man

Black Smoke wrote: »

Tipp Man,

Are you in the golden vale? Have you that kind of land, that can drive growth and thrive on store cattle?
Not everybody has land capable of growing stores on summer grass and summer grass alone! Even with fertiliser! Just can't be done!

PS. I tried it unsuccessfully for a few years, and my land wouldn't be the worst by a long shot.
One big draw back I found, was buying in cattle, from various sources and then getting locked up with TB! Nightmare!

Changed to suckling 15 years ago. Keep my own replacements. Buy only a bull when I need to. Haven't seen TB since.

On other hand, glad I have a day job -:)

Don't know if we're classed as Golden Vale or not but South Tipp is our area

Your dead right about the TB being a potential issue - touchwood it hasn't effect us yet - but with the new rules chances are we'll get caught at some stage so we will be changing our system slightly in the future - meant to change it this year but things went against it

On the thrive at grass - we'd fully expect 200kg+ on bullocks over the summer, most to do up to 250kg (certainly the small 1's) - i had assumed most cattle farmers would expect the same from grass??

I think the simple fact of the matter is that no matter where you are, how much land you have, quality of land, type of system - whatever - it doesn't really matter a damn as you'll make feck all at cattle no matter what you do - we have done calculations on every system possible and that is the conclusion we have come to

Kevin1150

Tipp Man wrote: »

Your right - you'd get some bullock in the mart today for 1200

Personally we buy a bit lighter and sell a bit lighter but agree with what you are saying

We don't buy stores either..just weanlings. Find that the average 430-440 by the time their adequately fleshed (3,3+,4-). They would be bought hungry if you know what I mean;) Not overdone with meal. Good r grade bulls that a nice percentage would feed into u's!

pakalasa

darragh_haven wrote: »

...... all winter housing is long paid for, as is all the machinery.....

Don't kid yourself, it's still a cost. Both are depreciating every year, in real terms anyway. Tractors will have to be replaced eventually, buildings repaired and maybe rebuilt completely in time. It's all a cost and should be budgeted accordingly. Same for suckler cows, every year they get older, ther are worth less.

As for cashflow, if you are re-investing profits in the farm, because it will give a better return than sitting in the bank, Why not?

Tipp Man

pakalasa wrote: »

Don't kid yourself, it's still a cost. Both are depreciating every year, in real terms anyway. Tractors will have to be replaced eventually, buildings repaired and maybe rebuilt completely in time. It's all a cost and should be budgeted accordingly. Same for suckler cows, every year they get older, ther are worth less.

Costs which have a direct impact on cash flow are what matters - not arbitary costs like depreciation - that's only an accounting phrase to spread the cost over time. The real cost is the annual amount you need to pay back for the loan for the shed or tractor i.e the cashflow. That is the key

Anyway Tractors hold their value on cost very well and a new tractor should last a stock man 20 odd years - a decent slatted shed should last 30 years - both with not much in the way of repairs which is a real cost.

As for suckler cows - plenty of them will make in the factory what it would cost to replace them - or not far off it

pakalasa

Tipp Man wrote: »

.....-a decent slatted shed should last 30 years .....

:rolleyes: There you go - Depreciation !!!

And remember if you are short of cashflow, you can borrow. Once you generate a return higher than you are paying the bank in interest. Risky, but how many businesses have expanded this way.

Tipp Man

pakalasa wrote: »

:rolleyes: There you go - Depreciation !!!

And remember if you are short of cashflow, you can borrow. Once you generate a return higher than you are paying the bank in interest. Risky, but how many businesses have expanded this way.

But if you have a shed it will depreciate whether there are cattle in it or not - what do you allocate that cost against then

Assuming it is paid for then the real cost is the maintainence of that shed not depreciation. If its not paid for then the real cost is loan repayment and maintainence

Borrowing for cashflow should only every be short term i.e. an overdraft. No surer way of going bust than borrowing repeatadly for cash flow.

pakalasa

Tipp Man wrote: »

...
Assuming it is paid for then the real cost is the maintainence of that shed not depreciation. If its not paid for then the real cost is loan repayment and maintainence....

Paid for with what? The money has to come from somewhere. Assuming it was money made on the farm, so it's a cost to the business.

simx

what would part out of simmental be like lads? anyone try it?

Juniorhurler

simx wrote: »

what would part out of simmental be like lads? anyone try it?

Theres a fella in Wexford, just outside Ballycanew breeding these. They are super cattle. I looked to buy a few heifers from his yard last year and he bid me €1300 a head at 430kg average. They made about €1150 average at the weanling sales about a fortnight later.

They grow on into big cows and I wouldn't dream of keeping them on soft ground.

On a side note, we had a heifer that won 1st prize at a weanling show and sale last night. Her mother was a limousin bred from a simmental. We find that the daughters of simmentals breed serious cattle.

simx

Juniorhurler wrote: »

Theres a fella in Wexford, just outside Ballycanew breeding these. They are super cattle. I looked to buy a few heifers from his yard last year and he bid me €1300 a head at 430kg average. They made about €1150 average at the weanling sales about a fortnight later.

They grow on into big cows and I wouldn't dream of keeping them on soft ground.

On a side note, we had a heifer that won 1st prize at a weanling show and sale last night. Her mother was a limousin bred from a simmental. We find that the daughters of simmentals breed serious cattle.

so you would reckon they would be nice calves?

Kovu

Juniorhurler wrote: »

Theres a fella in Wexford, just outside Ballycanew breeding these. They are super cattle. I looked to buy a few heifers from his yard last year and he bid me €1300 a head at 430kg average. They made about €1150 average at the weanling sales about a fortnight later.

They grow on into big cows and I wouldn't dream of keeping them on soft ground.

On a side note, we had a heifer that won 1st prize at a weanling show and sale last night. Her mother was a limousin bred from a simmental. We find that the daughters of simmentals breed serious cattle.

Glad to hear this! Just took a chance on crossing Millbrook Dartagnan with a lovely sim second calver for next year. Any idea what his calves are like?

Juniorhurler

simx wrote: »

so you would reckon they would be nice calves?

Ya I reckon so. His weanling bulls always sell well in Carnew too. I'll put it this way, after seeing his calves I put a few in calf to parthenaise myself.

Juniorhurler

Kovu Murr wrote: »

Glad to hear this! Just took a chance on crossing Millbrook Dartagnan with a lovely sim second calver for next year. Any idea what his calves are like?

Pray for a heifer so Kovu.

simx

Juniorhurler wrote: »

Pray for a heifer so Kovu.

what do you cross part with mainly? bb?

Black Smoke

Kovu Murr wrote: »

Juniorhurler wrote: »

Theres a fella in Wexford, just outside Ballycanew breeding these. They are super cattle. I looked to buy a few heifers from his yard last year and he bid me €1300 a head at 430kg average. They made about €1150 average at the weanling sales about a fortnight later.

They grow on into big cows and I wouldn't dream of keeping them on soft ground.

On a side note, we had a heifer that won 1st prize at a weanling show and sale last night. Her mother was a limousin bred from a simmental. We find that the daughters of simmentals breed serious cattle.

Glad to hear this! Just took a chance on crossing Millbrook Dartagnan with a lovely sim second calver for next year. Any idea what his calves are like?

Great calves! Had three last year off of Charolais cows. Used him on five cows this year.

rancher

Kevin1150 wrote: »

410??
A store, say 480kg liveweight, at 2.50c/kg =1200€

Everyone has different fixed costs so cant work out per head...previous poster said buildings/machinery well depreciated so will be lower than average

Was basing on the prices quoted in carnew, 1200 was a 410kg beast
Wasn't considering depreciation but I'm sure you have the same costs as everyone for accountancy, diesel, tyres, farm insurance, etc

just do it

Dont be daft wrote: »

his initials are RT.

He writes the odd newspaper article as well I'd say?

Juniorhurler

simx wrote: »

what do you cross part with mainly? bb?

I put part straws in lim heifers. Plan on putting bb on any part heifers I get from second calvings on. The will get limousin as maidens.

just do it

Tipp Man wrote: »

I tell you how we calculate our profit - on Jan 1st we empty our current account - then ins and outs during the year including tax - whatever is left at 31st December is your real profit

darragh_haven wrote: »

Just saw Tipp mans post, thats the way we calculate profit too (with out actually emptying the account)

Hard to fault it;)

1chippy

So has anyone any notion where the money is? i am currently in the process of trying to double the suckler nos as well as trim expenditure needed per animal.
am i going the right route or should i be looking at finishing animals?

Kovu

Kovu Murr wrote: »

On a side note, we had a heifer that won 1st prize at a weanling show and sale last night. Her mother was a limousin bred from a simmental. We find that the daughters of simmentals breed serious cattle.

Glad to hear this! Just took a chance on crossing Millbrook Dartagnan with a lovely sim second calver for next year. Any idea what his calves are like?

That was the part I meant to quote ( no pun intended:p)