Farming Chit Chat

bob charles

darragh_haven wrote: »

Does anyone really foresee a milk price slump? I can't see it in the immediate future, but maybe......

did you foresee whats happened in beef? it takes very little to upset the apple cart, I doubt there will be a price fall but with inputs rising on an hourly basis surely you would need a couple of more cents per ltr over last year just to stand still

Tipp Man

darragh_haven wrote: »

Does anyone really foresee a milk price slump? I can't see it in the immediate future, but maybe......

You would have to imagine that milk prices will hold firm for most of 2013

They are starting from a decent position and the demand seems to be firm

stanflt

bob charles wrote: »

not even if there was a milk price slump?

if the price drops you have to produce more to make the same income

if price drops and you decrease output you will double your debt potential-learned this in first economics class

freedominacup

bob charles wrote: »

did you foresee whats happened in beef? it takes very little to upset the apple cart, I doubt there will be a price fall but with inputs rising on an hourly basis surely you would need a couple of more cents per ltr over last year just to stand still

Guy quoted on indo today basically stating the bloody obvious. Milk price going forward will depend on U.S. feedlot output and they are totally sensitive to feed prices. Once the figures go against them they cull wholesale and simply take-out their own ability to supply. They do this because they generally have cull rates approaching 50% annually so the cows that are taken out now can and will be replaced from within the system fairly quickly. nothing we do here is going to make much difference to prices.

Tipp Man

stanflt wrote: »

if the price drops you have to produce more to make the same income

if price drops and you decrease output you will double your debt potential-learned this in first economics class

Thats not strictly true though

1) if you increase supply then you increase the amount of the oversupply which further depresses the market price and/or extends the length of time it takes for the price to recover (on a world market the individual obviously isn't producing enough to make a difference but if everybody operated like this then ...)

2) It depends on your cost structure and the relationship between fixed and variable costs. If you have say 10 cent fixed and 10 cent variable then if milk price falls to say 18c producing extra milk increases your losses. but if your fixed costs are say 19c with 1 cent variable then selling milk at 18c reduces your losses

td5man

stanflt wrote: »

if the price drops you have to produce more to make the same income

if price drops and you decrease output you will double your debt potential-learned this in first economics class

Learned this in real life thanks to tb.

stanflt

Tipp Man wrote: »

Thats not strictly true though

1) if you increase supply then you increase the amount of the oversupply which further depresses the market price and/or extends the length of time it takes for the price to recover (on a world market the individual obviously isn't producing enough to make a difference but if everybody operated like this then ...)

2) It depends on your cost structure and the relationship between fixed and variable costs. If you have say 10 cent fixed and 10 cent variable then if milk price falls to say 18c producing extra milk increases your losses. but if your fixed costs are say 19c with 1 cent variable then selling milk at 18c reduces your losses

who in there right mind would be suppling milk at a loss?

Tipp Man

stanflt wrote: »

who in there right mind would be suppling milk at a loss?

Plenty of fellas supplied milk in 2009 at a loss

johnpawl

leg wax wrote: »

i will breed from all 3 of them ,:D, cant wait to see what comes off the bull ,i should have 20 or so parts this spring and i am thinking of going all part if i am happy with them.

Did you put parth back on the 3 parth heifers?

bob charles

stanflt wrote: »

if the price drops you have to produce more to make the same income

if price drops and you decrease output you will double your debt potential-learned this in first economics class

May I ask what the break even price for most guys supplying milk. I didnt think there was such a big margin between break even and current price.

biggest danger if price drops doing the above the cost of your system can rocket as getting more out of each unit of production will require much more inputs driving up your break even price.

stanflt

bob charles wrote: »

May I ask what the break even price for most guys supplying milk. I didnt think there was such a big margin between break even and current price.

biggest danger if price drops doing the above the cost of your system can rocket as getting more out of each unit of production will require much more inputs driving up your break even price.

around 20c litre

bob charles

stanflt wrote: »

around 20c litre

Ah right, your principle would be right so if milk went down to around 25 - 24ish but after that one would become a busy fool. You boyos milking must be making serious wedge at 10c net profit per ltr

Juniorhurler

bob charles wrote: »

Ah right, your principle would be right so if milk went down to around 25 - 24ish but after that one would become a busy fool. You boyos milking must be making serious wedge at 10c net profit per ltr

I would say (and I have never been in milk production) that there is a good living in it but no fortune. It is a seriously labour intensive business and from a different business (now gone) I know that nothing eats money quicker than hired labour.

I have a good off farm job and a suckler herd which is low margin. U would probably have the grazing platform around the yard for 70 - 80 cows and a silage base on an out farm. I still wouldn't dream of swapping despite sucklers being so low margin. The dairy farmer deserves his wedge. I had 6 cows valve over a day and a half last week. The amount of time this took with getting calves up and running was huge, without having to milk twice a day.

bob charles

Juniorhurler wrote: »

I would say (and I have never been in milk production) that there is a good living in it but no fortune. It is a seriously labour intensive business and from a different business (now gone) I know that nothing eats money quicker than hired labour.

I have a good off farm job and a suckler herd which is low margin. U would probably have the grazing platform around the yard for 70 - 80 cows and a silage base on an out farm. I still wouldn't dream of swapping despite sucklers being so low margin. The dairy farmer deserves his wedge. I had 6 cows valve over a day and a half last week. The amount of time this took with getting calves up and running was huge, without having to milk twice a day.

Was the 20c per ltr not after paying for labour, either self or hired :eek:

Juniorhurler

bob charles wrote: »

Was the 20c per ltr not after paying for labour, either self or hired :eek:

Possibly even probably. I do get that on a large scale there probably is money in it. It is also a steady income from farming which is rare. The other systems are a one payday a year job in the main. I still don't think that dairying would be for everyone. I also don't think that finishing cattle, I.e living on your wits around a sales ring would be for eveyone either. I suppose what I am saying in a long winded way deus each to their own and that I like the security of my off farm income with the bonus of any few pound from farming as an extra.

just do it

reilig wrote: »

This straw feeding of incalf cows is working out well. No problems calving and calves appear to be pretty hardy. I have only one complaint - the cows on the straw aren't making a big bag of milk before they calve and its very hard to judge them - especially the pedigrees who don't normally make a big bag of milk anyway.

Agree with you on this count. I've some good milkers calved and I don't think they're producing as much as I'd expect. Straight onto 2kg dairy nuts and ad-lib good quality silage post calving though so that should get them going... hopefully. Out of interest, how much straw are you giving them? Mixed with silage?

freedominacup wrote: »

If you're sure of your dates you could put a group of springers a week to 10 days from calving together and give them a shake of meal. It'll help keep their energy/blood sugars up for calving and might bring in the milk a bit better. They'd only want to be in the last 10 days before claving or you'll start undoing your good work with the straw diet.

I may just give this a go, one of the advantages of AI is knowing their due date.

delaval

Do any of you have a view as to wheather there will be a super levy in April 2014. Just asking considering the saturation of land and the bad feed leading to under fed cows? Personally once we get calving this year and have a half decent price guys will become more positive. I also hear that meal bills are massive and credit terms are needing to be extended. What ye think

Timmaay

I think just like 2010 was a good year, and everyone forgot 2009 moving on into 2011 which rocketed over, same thing will happen in 2014! With it being soo close to the end of quotas, and the country awash with cows alot of people will probably struggle to stay under. Of course this is assuming that no other big event happens, like the wet last summer, or a world crash in milk prices etc.

keep going

bob charles wrote: »

Ah right, your principle would be right so if milk went down to around 25 - 24ish but after that one would become a busy fool. You boyos milking must be making serious wedge at 10c net profit per ltr

so bob will you give up tearing around the country assembling cattle for larry goodman or who ever to rip you off(if they havent done so already they soon will) and buy a nice little herd of cows and take it easy and make a nice handy living;)

delaval

keep going wrote: »

so bob will give up tearing around the country assembling cattle for larry goodman or who ever to rip you off(if they havent done so already they soon will) and buy a nice little herd of cows and take it easy and make a nice handy living;)

Jesus no he'd have to sell the diet feeder:)

keep going

Timmaay wrote: »

I think just like 2010 was a good year, and everyone forgot 2009 moving on into 2011 which rocketed over, same thing will happen in 2014! With it being soo close to the end of quotas, and the country awash with cows alot of people will probably struggle to stay under. Of course this is assuming that no other big event happens, like the wet last summer, or a world crash in milk prices etc.

yeah there is alot of cows in yards around west cork this year including our selves so unless dry cows are making good money which tempt lads to move messy cows they will prob stick around.last couple of years alot of cows went to kerry but dont see that happening this year.the couple of ai fr heifer calves werent making silly money in the journal last week-400 and 405

freedominacup

delaval wrote: »

Jesus no he'd have to sell the diet feeder:)

Why?
I've never given concentrate to milking cows any other way

whelan1

had a guy ring me last night looking for biestings, i keep some in the freezer, he said he had a heifer calved yesterday morning and the calf hadnt drank yet, he said he would get the biestings this morning, so calf wont have had a drink for a full 24 hours after it was born:eek::eek: not a great start for it

Manoffeeling

whelan1 wrote: »

had a guy ring me last night looking for biestings, i keep some in the freezer, he said he had a heifer calved yesterday morning and the calf hadnt drank yet, he said he would get the biestings this morning, so calf wont have had a drink for a full 24 hours after it was born:eek::eek: not a great start for it

He is probably an expert on everything :eek:

reilig

just do it wrote: »

Out of interest, how much straw are you giving them? Mixed with silage?

They're getting a bale of straw for every 3 bales of silage. So 25%. When they calve, they go onto good silage and they get a bit of fodder stretcher meal.

whelan1

reilig wrote: »

They're getting a bale of straw for every 3 bales of silage. So 25%. When they calve, they go onto good silage and they get a bit of fodder stretcher meal.

our vet always says they should be on a rising plane of nutrtion for a week before calving, we give them the dairy mix - silage, straw and meal-

reilig

whelan1 wrote: »

had a guy ring me last night looking for biestings, i keep some in the freezer, he said he had a heifer calved yesterday morning and the calf hadnt drank yet, he said he would get the biestings this morning, so calf wont have had a drink for a full 24 hours after it was born:eek::eek: not a great start for it

He'll be dead this morning so. Remember as a young lad of 8 or 10, my parents were gone to a wedding and we had a heifer calved out in the field. Calf was up and sucking after 20 minutes. But about 12 hours later he was down. Put the heifer into a crush to see what the milk was like and it turned out that she had none at all. Calf died. Expensive lesson for a young lad, but a valuable one too. Always get the beastings into the calf asap.

Marty lenehan who has the "Better Farm" in sligo told us on his farm walk that he stomach tubes a pint of beastings into every calf that is born on his farm within 20 minutes of them hitting the ground regardless of how strong the calf is. Then he leaves it to mother nature - he said that he rarely has to ush a calf up to suck after that.

reilig

whelan1 wrote: »

our vet always says they should be on a rising plane of nutrtion for a week before calving, we give them the dairy mix - silage, straw and meal-

Its something that I'll have to work on. She actually calved early. Limousins normally bring 3 weeks with them. This one only brough a day.

whelan1

reilig wrote: »

He'll be dead this morning so. Remember as a young lad of 8 or 10, my parents were gone to a wedding and we had a heifer calved out in the field. Calf was up and sucking after 20 minutes. But about 12 hours later he was down. Put the heifer into a crush to see what the milk was like and it turned out that she had none at all. Calf died. Expensive lesson for a young lad, but a valuable one too. Always get the beastings into the calf asap.

Marty lenehan who has the "Better Farm" in sligo told us on his farm walk that he stomach tubes a pint of beastings into every calf that is born on his farm within 20 minutes of them hitting the ground regardless of how strong the calf is. Then he leaves it to mother nature - he said that he rarely has to ush a calf up to suck after that.

he just collected the biestings now, wouldnt have killed him to give it to the calf last night

hugo29

reilig wrote: »

He'll be dead this morning so. Remember as a young lad of 8 or 10, my parents were gone to a wedding and we had a heifer calved out in the field. Calf was up and sucking after 20 minutes. But about 12 hours later he was down. Put the heifer into a crush to see what the milk was like and it turned out that she had none at all. Calf died. Expensive lesson for a young lad, but a valuable one too. Always get the beastings into the calf asap.

Marty lenehan who has the "Better Farm" in sligo told us on his farm walk that he stomach tubes a pint of beastings into every calf that is born on his farm within 20 minutes of them hitting the ground regardless of how strong the calf is. Then he leaves it to mother nature - he said that he rarely has to ush a calf up to suck after that.

thats good if you know how to tube em, never really learned that art, is it a difficult procedure, id be afraid to do it , prob see the tube coming out the calves ass:D, suppose it would be time to stop then,

vanderbadger

whelan1 wrote: »

had a guy ring me last night looking for biestings, i keep some in the freezer, he said he had a heifer calved yesterday morning and the calf hadnt drank yet, he said he would get the biestings this morning, so calf wont have had a drink for a full 24 hours after it was born:eek::eek: not a great start for it

i had a calf born monday morning off a springer, he was very small and weak, wouldnt suck and she was an easy heifer to manage but no way would he suck, i feed him myself but he seemed to get worse at the day went on, went to vet got vit shot for him and they gave me another injection, the one that incourages them to suckle, didnt seem to make any odds, his heart was racing and id say his lungs were under pressure, he wouldnt take anything that evening and if you tried to tube him he would go into convultions, same yesterday morning, i would put him standing and he would lie down again after a min, literally had to force about half L into him, was testing later in day and asked vet to take alook, he gave him a shot into neck of cloudy stuff, cant remember name, 9 o clock last night he still wouldnt drink and i was thinking he was a goner..
put him up this morning and shoved him under heifer and low and behold he started to nuzzle the cow, she gave him a good kick not being used to be sucked but he came back and within a few mins he was tearing into her..hard to believe sometimes how easy they can die and sometimes how they stay alive

just do it

vanderbadger wrote: »

hard to believe sometimes how easy they can die and sometimes how they stay alive

Your husbandry skills were the difference. He'd have died on a lot of farms.

whelan1

have laugh, the guy who got the biestings went through chapter and verse about the calf, a bit of effort like vanderbadger would go along way, we all know how important it is to get biestings into the calf asap after birth

whelan1

anyone see the weather forecast on the six 1 news, feck sake turn out wont be for a long time around here if we get the rain thats forecast

Bizzum

reilig wrote: »

He'll be dead this morning so. Remember as a young lad of 8 or 10, my parents were gone to a wedding and we had a heifer calved out in the field. Calf was up and sucking after 20 minutes. But about 12 hours later he was down. Put the heifer into a crush to see what the milk was like and it turned out that she had none at all. Calf died. Expensive lesson for a young lad, but a valuable one too. Always get the beastings into the calf asap.

Jaysus Reilig you were the plucky young fella;)

1chippy

this year we have started giving everything 2 litres of biestings after calving. within 20 mininutes. so far so good, vaccinated all cows a while back and everything when they hit 7 days or batches of 5 is done for pneumonia and at 3 weeks the ibr and whatever else is in it at that stage. it really has made a huge difference compared to last year. all new stock ar being done aswell before they get mixing with the rest.
Reilig i wass down your way yesterday, i really dont envy you farming on leitrim ground, even the snipe were wearing wellies.

Timmaay

whelan1 wrote: »

anyone see the weather forecast on the six 1 news, feck sake turn out wont be for a long time around here if we get the rain thats forecast

Just looked at it now, got 7loads out of the tank today, I may the same again tomorrow when I have the chance!

whelan1

Timmaay wrote: »

Just looked at it now, got 7loads out of the tank today, I may the same again tomorrow when I have the chance!

got 15 loads out on our "driest" fields, 2600 gallon tanker, took the pressure off a bit

delaval

We were spreading from early am till 6 no damage done TG. Hope to repeat tomorrow and then concentrate on calving.

Grass also measured today AFC 600, we were a bit disappointed grass looks like it grew a lot it's green but didn,t grow as much as we expected. Calving next week so we'll make the most of what we have.

simx

hugo29 wrote: »

thats good if you know how to tube em, never really learned that art, is it a difficult procedure, id be afraid to do it , prob see the tube coming out the calves ass:D, suppose it would be time to stop then,

i had to learn very fast,no one around,vet just gave me a description how to do it- hold head up,put tube in at the side of the mouth ,then while still keeping up the head rub the calfs neck,you should feel the tube going down ,then open the valve while still holding up calfs head and less than a minute later 2l are gone, alot handier than messing around with teat box, i was wary of doing it at first for fear of drowning but would be my first choice now

Timmaay

I need to replace the feeding tube with a bag I have at the minute, http://www.magentadirect.ie/proddetail.php?prod=MAE0025&cat=12 this one is cheap and looks easier to operate on your own, anyone used this type before, and major downsides?

delaval

freedominacup wrote: »

Why?
I've never given concentrate to milking cows any other way

We diet fed here for 20 yrs sold feeder 2 years ago put pig reeders in you would not believe how much more time we have:D:D

td5man

Timmaay wrote: »

I need to replace the feeding tube with a bag I have at the minute, http://www.magentadirect.ie/proddetail.php?prod=MAE0025&cat=12 this one is cheap and looks easier to operate on your own, anyone used this type before, and major downsides?

Have used them but with a flexible tube,theyre ok but break around the cap.
Using a channelle bag at the moment vet was saying he had the tube break on one killing the calf.

td5man

delaval wrote: »

We diet fed here for 20 yrs sold feeder 2 years ago put pig reeders in you would not believe how much more time we have:D:D

More time and less diesel burnt id say.

Bizzum

Timmaay wrote: »

I need to replace the feeding tube with a bag I have at the minute, http://www.magentadirect.ie/proddetail.php?prod=MAE0025&cat=12 this one is cheap and looks easier to operate on your own, anyone used this type before, and major downsides?

I've only ever used the flexible ones. After a bit of use they harden up a bit and generally leak. In fact the last one we had I now use the tube to wash out cows with a dosing syringe on the end of it.

I'd be nervous using the rigid one, but maybe when ya get going at it, there'd be no probs. As said earlier, you can feel it going down.

Rovi

I put a awful lot of colostrum through the collapsible/flexible ones, and found them to be invaluable at calving time:
http://www.magentadirect.ie/proddetail.php?prod=MAE0023

They get chewed up and leaky after a while, but we'd always have a new one on hand for whenever it was needed.

bob charles

its a goodie

bob charles

whelan1 wrote: »

anyone see the weather forecast on the six 1 news, feck sake turn out wont be for a long time around here if we get the rain thats forecast

will ye let it rain when its supposed to rain and hope that the seasons get back into kilter. Dry weather in January is shag all of a help, if its pissing come May

C0N0R

Timmaay wrote: »

I need to replace the feeding tube with a bag I have at the minute, http://www.magentadirect.ie/proddetail.php?prod=MAE0025&cat=12 this one is cheap and looks easier to operate on your own, anyone used this type before, and major downsides?

Only ever used this one, never had any problems with it, simple and effective. Can't get the bag ones out here! (Nz)

redzerologhlen

simx wrote: »

i had to learn very fast,no one around,vet just gave me a description how to do it- hold head up,put tube in at the side of the mouth ,then while still keeping up the head rub the calfs neck,you should feel the tube going down ,then open the valve while still holding up calfs head and less than a minute later 2l are gone, alot handier than messing around with teat box, i was wary of doing it at first for fear of drowning but would be my first choice now

I agree its a lot handier and safer when done right than trying to bottle milk into a dopey weak calf. My auld fella let milk into a calfs lungs years back and wont do it since. I think the biggest danger rather than putting the pipe into the calves lungs is if the tube comes up the calves neck and it isint able to take the milk to its stomach fast enough so it flows into the lungs instead, I always make sure there is no milk in the tube when I am taking it out to avoid this.