[feedback wanted] Do the retailers want 'wanted' threads?

Steve

As it says in the title, what do you think about the idea of allowing people here to post threads looking for a specific item so you can quote them for it?

Feedback / opinions welcome from users, retailers and mods.

MerryDespot

I'm well up for that, it saves having to deal with customs - but not sure if the type of stuff I usually have to go to ehobby or redwolf for would be worth much to retailer (comms bits, ra-tech kit). Still if this came off I'd be a happy bloke.

thebillynator

I think it may just clog up the forum and cause a bit of competition and bad feeling between retailers... imo

Inari

In my honest opinion, users posting threads in the retailers' section devalues the retailers' threads.

Instead I would think it more pertinent to allow the retailers to post informative posts in the wanted or question threads. So something simple like being able to say "Yes we have it in stock" or "We can get it in for you" and then direct them to the retailer's specific thread for queries on price etc.

NOTE: I speak as a user, NOT for Hobby Airsoft.

deepimpact

Some users, myself included, have "go-to" retailers that we buy RIFs and kit from, so that can be kept to the specific threads concerned. There's also nothing to stop users posting the same question on each retailer thread. This happens regularly anyway.

If this idea does go ahead, could all the business take place in the one thread in the retailers section (or whichever sub-forum is deemed appropriate)? If there were separate threads, things would get messy imo.

3102derek

thebillynator wrote: »

I think it may just clog up the forum and cause a bit of competition and bad feeling between retailers... imo

agreed, with a few weeks it would be full of wanted adds.

i think leave it to the retailers, they pay for the privilege of been easily identifiable in here which would be easily lost with all the wanted ads

J.D.R

Instead of posting Wanted threads to the sub forum, maybe a sticky thread would be a better idea.

On the thread, a user could post what they're looking for and a retailer could respond with a price quote. That way it wouldn't clog up the Retailers forum.

Witcher

What's wrong with the current system of people asking their preferred retailers to get an item for them?

Don't fix what's not broken.

TNTQ

No - The idea will not benefit the retailers.

Simple...

• 1 Sticky Thread
• Users put up WANTED posts like...

I am looking to buy this link. I invite retailers to quote me a landed price for it. Looking for it in about 2 weeks. Thanks

• Retailers who are interested / can get it reply VIA PM
• When the deal is done, the user quotes their original post and says Deal Done or something

I thought it was simple anyways :rolleyes:

Villafan6

I think it's a great Idea. Bar the fact I'll have 10 threads up within the first day of the new section/thread whatever it is.

EDIT- I think it should have it's own section because it would get clogged up if put in another section

TNTQ

No - The idea will not benefit the retailers.

Blay wrote: »

What's wrong with the current system of people asking their preferred retailers to get an item for them?
Don't fix what's not broken.

The problem is...

• Some retailers can't get certain stuff
• Some retailers don't want to get certain stuff
• Everybody wants stuff
• Customs don't like the stuff
• Sometime in the future you wont be allowed to import the stuff yourself
• You don't want to get ripped off
• Mary Harney told us to shop around
• If Irish players dont support Irish retailers then stuff will be even harder to get in the future

* Don't mind me, I'm just bitter that I'm not out on the beer

Villafan6

TNTQ wrote: »

The problem is...

• Some retailers can't get certain stuff
• Some retailers don't want to get certain stuff
• Everybody wants stuff
• Customs don't like the stuff
• Sometime in the future you wont be allowed to import the stuff yourself
• You don't want to get ripped off
• Mary Harney told us to shop around
• If Irish players dont support Irish retailers then stuff will be even harder to get in the future

* Don't mind me, I'm just bitter that I'm not out on the beer

I agree with everything there, hope this happens

Witcher

TNTQ wrote: »

The problem is...

• Some retailers can't get certain stuff
• Some retailers don't want to get certain stuff
• Everybody wants stuff
• Customs don't like the stuff
• Sometime in the future you wont be allowed to import the stuff yourself
• You don't want to get ripped off
• Mary Harney told us to shop around
• If Irish players dont support Irish retailers then stuff will be even harder to get in the future

Still, there's nothing wrong with the current system. A lot of people have 'go-to' shops as Scanlant said and will go there even if another shop is a bit cheaper.

Just my opinion and by all means people are entitled to disagree:)
Aside, if this happens will people still be able to ask on a retailers thread can they get X item or will they be told 'take it to the wanted thread'?

TNTQ

No - The idea will not benefit the retailers.

Blay wrote: »

will they be told 'take it to the wanted thread'?

Jaysus, I hope not.

The object of the thread is not to wrench customers from one retailer or another. Ye are perfectly right, guys have their 'go-to guys' and thank god for that

mememo

Maybe you could put up a sticky that would tell the new users that the option to order from overseas is available through some of the shops here and then get the shops to post up who they will order from . That way people could look through the list and see if anyone can order what they want from the shop they want to use

Arkslippy

I don't think the idea of "please tender for this" items is a good idea.

It'll bring the retailer into direct competition with each other and that is no good for anyone. But I think pm to retailer but a post saying pm for price sent is ok.

We should all shop around but not drive prices down to make it unattractive.

I think if a retailer has an agency for a particular product, say hobby have with cybergun and they are happy to order specifics, then a thread for all retailer which is locked and pinned marked hobbyairsoft "special services" and phone or invite to pm should be sufficient.

Like for example I didn't realise, because I'm not local to them that seairsoft are a partner company of.belgadi and provide their items at website prices. And I found that out from Richard in hobby.

Genghiz Cohen

Was going to post Charlies (TNTQ) post almost word for word.

Post in sticky.
Retailers PM you an offer and time.
You edit/reply in sticky saying "Sorted".

Steve

I like the idea of a general sticky thread as opposed to allowing people start individual threads - that would just cause chaos.

I don't think it should be for any discussion, there's plenty of other forums for that so the modus operandi could be that a user posts in as much detail as to what they're after. No general posts like "hi I'm looking for a cheap AEG" - they can post that in the questions forum and narrow their options there before coming here.

I don't like the idea of retailers simply PMing someone who posts, that would leave it open to abuse by retailers aren't paid-up here and who are not entitled to post. You have to get value for money from this forum as well imo.
That said, you could simply reply to someone saying "Hi, I can supply that for you - please post in my thread here and I'll be happy to talk to you." The last thing that should happen is for this to turn into a Dutch auction thread.

The sticky should also contain a list of current retailers with a link to their respective thread here.

I've also been asked this in relation to the adverts forum (i.e. where to get new stuff), personally I'd have no problem putting a sticky in there with a link to whatever we end up here. I said personally there - obviously I would have to run it by the other mods & Dav.

TheDoc

So basically someone posts that they want a gun and then retailers just simply start pushing their offers?

Terrible idea tbh and can only see it turning into as you so called it a "Dutch auction".


So for example?

I post looking for a M4A1

X retailer tells me he has a couple of brands at different prices.
Y retailer reads the previous post and tells me his brands and prices
Z retailer has the same brands but then posts at a lower price

I go with retailer Z cause he offered the cheapest?

The current method has been here working fine for years. The threads update with new stock and its up to the retailer to keep their thread and website fresh so consumers go through each site to find the best price.

Its also part of the retailers tools that while a customer is browsing for prices, they might have something else catch their eye and some impulse purchasing may ensue.

I don't like the sound of this idea, and it doesn't sound reasonable or practical.

And lets not forget that we have some pretty massive retailers who have alot of contacts and better savings onto their customers because of their bulk buying power. And there are other retailers who simply undercut prices ( making **** all margins) to gather customer base.

Essentially looks like creating this massive bidding/waging war for customers.

Although yes thats how the world of business works, it should be done through means of genuine entrapeunership and salesman ship, not posting bids and offers on a boards thread.

And lets take even a more simplier example

I want an M4A1 " Dear retailers, I want a M4A1 , G&G, €180, get in touch"
So the thread rules are that the retailer PM's the user to inform them of information.

Retailer Y messages me with his price and timeframe to get item
Retailer X messages me with his price and timeframe to get item
Retailer Z messages me with his price and timeframe to get item

Now I have potentially three different time frames and three different prices. As an intellegent consumer, I reply to all three telling of each others offers.
Bidding war ensues again, retailer might say get bent, retailer might undercut further.

I'm sorry but there is ltierally no positive outcome from this, just can the idea and move on please, the retailing world has been relatively low key the last few months lets not spark another implosion.

Like I'm looking for an M4 at the moment and some KJW CO2 mags, I'm just firing some posts into the retailers threads or emails to their sales accounts to get my information, you know, how EVERY other industry works.

I'd also assume there would be intervention from the IAA and possibly other avenues. If I was a smaller retailer who gets by on local business, I wouldn't be happy to see something like this arise and it could potentially kill me, encouraging retailers to act like cattle sellers on a forum.

Maybe I'm taking this up wrong, but I've kidna gone over every possible scenario in my head and it sounds fishy, dodgy and rubbish.

Steve did you create this idea by yourself or?
I'm just wondering because we all know there is a retailer sub forum for retailers onyl, and I guess the question I'm wondering is was the idea sprung up there by a retailer, if so, I'd question why something like that would be advised.

I would have gathered that it would be a pretty negative move by any business to enter this sort of trading, unless they have a massive advantage or some secret weapon they arnt sharing as to how this would work to their advantage.

/Close.Opinion

/Open.Disregard

TNTQ

No - The idea will not benefit the retailers.

Some good points mate and some I didn't think of - my initial idea was that guys would get an accurate landed price on items that they are currently importing, which they wont be able to soon. I can see now how the more unscrupulous customers and retailers (on boards and not) could abuse such a system.

Shock Horror - FEEDBACK THREAD does it's job an garners constructive ideas -

TheDoc

TNTQ wrote: »

Some good points mate and some I didn't think of - my initial idea was that guys would get an accurate landed price on items that they are currently importing, which they wont be able to soon. I can see now how the more unscrupulous customers and retailers (on boards and not) could abuse such a system.

Shock Horror - FEEDBACK THREAD does it's job an garners constructive ideas -

Probably me being the devils advocate, I can see the benefits but I can see alot of negetives and alot of messing.

And creating alot of bad blood, in tight times, someone wipping a customer from another retailer through essentially catle selling tactics, might ripple the pond which has been relatively calm till now.

fayer

Seems like a glorified race to the bottom, the only winner will be the Mega large company that can under cut everyone or the unscrupulous that are not 100% above board.

I shop local based on who can give me the best service & a reasonable price, simple as.

Steve

Some good points there Doc.
Just to clarify, I'm not pushing this as an agenda in any way - just looking for thoughts on whether it would benefit the forum users in general. The main benefit would have to be to the retailers as they pay to post here.

I'll try to address some of the points you made -

TheDoc wrote: »

So basically someone posts that they want a gun and then retailers just simply start pushing their offers?

Terrible idea tbh and can only see it turning into as you so called it a "Dutch auction".

Agree - I'll explain further on.

So for example?

I post looking for a M4A1

X retailer tells me he has a couple of brands at different prices.
Y retailer reads the previous post and tells me his brands and prices
Z retailer has the same brands but then posts at a lower price

I go with retailer Z cause he offered the cheapest?

No, my idea of how it would work would be that someone has to be specific about what they want (and also not know who may or may not supply it). If they're new, they can go and start a thread in the Questions forum and find out what will suit them there.
Retailers don't post their prices, they merely post that they can supply it and give a link to their thread.

(^^ can of worms to mod there already)

The current method has been here working fine for years. The threads update with new stock and its up to the retailer to keep their thread and website fresh so consumers go through each site to find the best price.

Its also part of the retailers tools that while a customer is browsing for prices, they might have something else catch their eye and some impulse purchasing may ensue.

I don't like the sound of this idea, and it doesn't sound reasonable or practical.

Also agree with that.

And lets not forget that we have some pretty massive retailers who have alot of contacts and better savings onto their customers because of their bulk buying power. And there are other retailers who simply undercut prices ( making **** all margins) to gather customer base.

Essentially looks like creating this massive bidding/waging war for customers.

I'm sot aware of the size of any of the businesses here - that's good because I can remain impartial to that - It's a good point though and a very good reason not to have such a thread.

Although yes thats how the world of business works, it should be done through means of genuine entrapeunership and salesman ship, not posting bids and offers on a boards thread.

Again, it won't be an auction thread, that would benefit nobody in the long term. That's what eBay is for and we ain't eBay.

And lets take even a more simplier example

I want an M4A1 " Dear retailers, I want a M4A1 , G&G, €180, get in touch"
So the thread rules are that the retailer PM's the user to inform them of information.

Retailer Y messages me with his price and timeframe to get item
Retailer X messages me with his price and timeframe to get item
Retailer Z messages me with his price and timeframe to get item

Now I have potentially three different time frames and three different prices. As an intellegent consumer, I reply to all three telling of each others offers.
Bidding war ensues again, retailer might say get bent, retailer might undercut further.

Agree also - nobody wants to devalue peoples businesses here so I don't know how that could be addressed.

I'm sorry but there is ltierally no positive outcome from this, just can the idea and move on please, the retailing world has been relatively low key the last few months lets not spark another implosion.

Like I'm looking for an M4 at the moment and some KJW CO2 mags, I'm just firing some posts into the retailers threads or emails to their sales accounts to get my information, you know, how EVERY other industry works.

See - there's the difference. You KNOW who you ask for what you want, not everyone does and that's where a thread like this might be of benefit.

e.g:
Newish user (to airsoft) comes in here and hasn't a clue who supplies *brand x* or *specialist item y* yet they have their heart set on one.
They can't be expected to read through the supplier megathreads on the off chance of finding a reference to what they want. That's a potential sale lost for someone on the forum - doesn't matter who lost it but if the user can't easily get pointed to where something is available then they might just back away.

I'd also assume there would be intervention from the IAA and possibly other avenues. If I was a smaller retailer who gets by on local business, I wouldn't be happy to see something like this arise and it could potentially kill me, encouraging retailers to act like cattle sellers on a forum.

I don't see how the IAA could have any input into this - could you expand on that?

Maybe I'm taking this up wrong, but I've kidna gone over every possible scenario in my head and it sounds fishy, dodgy and rubbish.

Well, I appreciate the feedback and maybe what I've posted above might throw some light on it.
Maybe there should be two facets to this - one for noobs (ugh) to be pointed to where they can get an item and one for more experienced players who are looking for something specialist to be imported but don't know who to ask.
Dunno really, that's why we're discussing it.

Steve did you create this idea by yourself or?
I'm just wondering because we all know there is a retailer sub forum for retailers onyl, and I guess the question I'm wondering is was the idea sprung up there by a retailer, if so, I'd question why something like that would be advised.

No, the thread was started on foot of comments by users in the main forum and in the adverts forum asking was there a place to post for something like this.
Again - I've no agenda here and will go with what the majority of paid-up retailers want.

Maybe once everyone gives their 2c on it, I could add a public poll to this so that the retailers can decide if it's worth brining forward or it's a dead duck.

Shiva

Steve wrote: »

No, my idea of how it would work would be that someone has to be specific about what they want (and also not know who may or may not supply it). If they're new, they can go and start a thread in the Questions forum and find out what will suit them there.
Retailers don't post their prices, they merely post that they can supply it and give a link to their thread.

Theres about 20, 21 airsoft retailers in the Republic, not counting gadget shops (who wouldnt be interested in fulfilling special orders anyway, so we'll ignore them). Only what, 7 or 8 retailers are paying a monthly fee to post here? How would you moderate to prevent retailers who arent paying the subscription fee from watching this proposed thread, then just PMing the user and offering to beat whatever price they're given by x percent ? I know theres nothing to stop them doing that already (and I've heard anecdotal evidence that it happens already), but you'd just be making it easier for them to do it, I think ?

Again, it won't be an auction thread, that would benefit nobody in the long term. That's what eBay is for and we ain't eBay.

Yes it will...it'll just be a hidden auction thread

See - there's the difference. You KNOW who you ask for what you want, not everyone does and that's where a thread like this might be of benefit.

e.g:
Newish user (to airsoft) comes in here and hasn't a clue who supplies *brand x* or *specialist item y* yet they have their heart set on one.
They can't be expected to read through the supplier megathreads on the off chance of finding a reference to what they want. That's a potential sale lost for someone on the forum - doesn't matter who lost it but if the user can't easily get pointed to where something is available then they might just back away.

I think you might be slightly under-estimating the average cop-on of new airsofters
Why cant they simply do what they've always done, and post a question somewhere - "Hey lads, where can I get an ACME Ltd Shoot-tastic 500 ?" and then the nice denizens here will tell them. Again, still open to people PMing and offering deals, but not as formalised.

Well, I appreciate the feedback and maybe what I've posted above might throw some light on it.
Maybe there should be two facets to this - one for noobs (ugh) to be pointed to where they can get an item and one for more experienced players who are looking for something specialist to be imported but don't know who to ask.
Dunno really, that's why we're discussing it.

Maybe once everyone gives their 2c on it, I could add a public poll to this so that the retailers can decide if it's worth brining forward or it's a dead duck.

I understand completely your intentions in this are good, and aimed to benefit the general airsofters, but I think its an unnecessary step, and one that could cause damage.

The competition in this country for airsoft cash is insane, and unsustainable. This will make it worse - maybe not hugely, but worse nonetheless. We're already the laughing stock of Europe with regard to general pricing because we're far too cheap - driving prices down will just make it harder for retailers to survive. And while its nice in the short term to get a great deal, remember that in a year or so if things continue this way (not that they will - its impossible) you'll have one or two large retailers who can afford to get in bulk stock and keep prices low but only in a limited range, but wont be too pushed about fulfilling special orders because its just too much hassle. And theres an import ban on the way. Think long term folks.....

Steve

Right, I've added a poll.

Retailers only vote on this please - the subject here is if you want it or think it may benefit you.

The poll will close in a week and if so deemed then so will this thread.

TheDoc

The reason I would say the IAA might get involved is because alot of retaielrs are IAA afilliates.

Boards is impartial and anyone can post.

Thats fair and fine, no problems.

But the IAA stores are bound to a certain code of conduct and operate above board(supposed to)

What I'm getting at is if a Non-IAA afilliated retailer starts posting at massive undercuts, questions would be asked (common sense) as to how that retailer is acquiring items at such a low cost price.

What I'm getting at is retailers operate the correct way to getting items in, but there are ways a retailer could operate, illegally, to get items in cheaper.

The reason I say the IAA might get involved is that if I was a retailer affiliated with the IAA, they have a partial resonsability to ensure moral and a high standard of market trade, and ensure dodgy dealings does not cause damages to a business.

I can just see alot more negetives then I can see positives. And while I appreciate that you are totally impartial and do not know the business' or their operates erc, alot of us do, especially those who currently or have previously worked in the business. And I think overall that category of poster here can see alot of pitfalls.

And to me it still seems auction like, granted maybe not publicly on a thread but as easily through PM.

And lets not lie, this happens anyway, its just called shopping around, people ring around checking the best prices.

I dont see the point in leading horses to the water in this point. I'm just not seeing what flaws are in the current process that would prompt this sort of a change really.

Lets look at a reall ife scenario.

I'm looking for an M4. My first stop is Tony in Eirsoft just from history, working there, mates etc etc.

But I've also checked around other sites to see things like pricing and brands etc and have received a fair few PM's from retailers(without me being first contact) and responses on their threads.

So I put in the ground work, checked sites, asked questions on threads, dealt with PM's. Compiled pricing against brands then weighed up pros and cons and made my decision.

How would the new process that is being put forward, increase efficeny of this existing process?


I'm having a go or anything so dont take it that way, but as someone who spent two years in the business, I can see many a pitfall,and very few gains

ricka

No - The idea will not benefit the retailers.

TheDoc wrote: »

But I've also checked around other sites to see things like pricing and brands etc and have received a fair few PM's from retailers(without me being first contact) and responses on their threads.

Are you serious? That really pisses me off, as that's something I have never, and would never do.I've often seen people query a rifle from another retailer which I have in stock.I'd love to post I have it, but don't because that's simply not allowed.
Have to say at first I was against the QAS proposal, but have now gone full circle on the idea.I've often seen an individual post for an item we have, but yet I'm powerless to respond unless its in my thread.I'm completely at the mercy of some wellwisher deciding to post we have it.Crazy when you think about it!

TheDoc

ricka wrote: »

Are you serious? That really pisses me off, as that's something I have never, and would never do.I've often seen people query a rifle from another retailer which I have in stock.I'd love to post I have it, but don't because that's simply not allowed.
Have to say at first I was against the QAS proposal, but have now gone full circle on the idea.I've often seen an individual post for an item we have, but yet I'm powerless to respond unless its in my thread.I'm completely at the mercy of some wellwisher deciding to post we have it.Crazy when you think about it!

I should specify that the PM's I've received are not from reputible stores, have been from low count posters saying they run a shop or can order this that the other.

I deleted them in fairness because I'd only deal with the retailers i Know or have heard about.

ricka

No - The idea will not benefit the retailers.

One point I'd like to hear what people think of, is when someone posts in the Questions section that their after a particular item or want to spend an amount of money.Maybe a couple of retailers have what they want or want to put foward some ideas, however they have no way of responding to the post.Their reliant on a wellwisher or loyal customer posting on their merits.Often that friendly poster doesn't come along and the retailers chance of a sale is gone.
Its very frustrating when I see someone looking for something I have or is on the way, yet I can't say anything.
I know this a difficult one because by the very nature of the question being asked to the community at large and not the individual retailer it does dictate it should be answered solely by the community.
But logically from that you could say why shouldn't there be a mechanism for the poster to talk to all retailers without having to post on seven or eight threads.By the way I've never actually seen anyone post a query to ALL of the retailers!
The worry of retailers bidding against each other I personally think is overplayed.That happens at the moment anyway and I've always felt if you sell something without adequate margin you wont be around for very long.Put on your margin,stick to it and give good service and you'll always outlast a flybynite retailer.
I respect what the other retailers have said in previous posts but there are reasons why some elements of what QAS have put foward would be beneficial to both customers and retailers.
I don't have the answers but I still think its worth looking at

Steve

TheDoc wrote: »

I should specify that the PM's I've received are not from reputible stores, have been from low count posters saying they run a shop or can order this that the other.

I deleted them in fairness because I'd only deal with the retailers i Know or have heard about.

In fairness Doc (and anyone else who receives them), you should report those pm's before you delete them. That crap isn't tolerated on boards and it only undermines the honest folk here.

Steve

Idea rejected by popular consensus - thread closed.

Thanks for everyone's input