killing

the_syco

desaparecidos wrote: »

Does that imply if you live in the country side you'd "get it"?

I live in the country side and the vast majority of people I know wouldn't hunt / own a gun and I consider people who hunt somewhat lacking something mentally.

Does your lifestyle depend on the eggs from your hens? What happens when a fox or mink kills most or all of them? What do you do then?

The animals killed them. And for the smart person who says "that's what nature does", well, how is us killing the foxes any different?

lesserspottedchloe

xoxyx wrote: »

I felt the same, but I've read some threads in the hunting forum and a lot of good points are made to give reason to hunting. I just know that I couldn't shoot an animal and watch it die (worse so if you were to shoot it in the wrong place and it didn't die quickly). I'm not okay with it, but it sounds like most people who do this, do it for reasons that are good enough (to them at least).

I just don't see the fun in it. Do it as a necessity, but not as a hobby.

This is kinda what I mean. I'm a vegan myself but see nothing wrong with people eating meat to survive (not that you have to) which means I see nothing wrong with killing an animal for this purpose. Some of you need to have another read of my original post. It's the needless klling of foxes for sport that I don't understand-why is this fun? There is a proven link between animal cruelty and mental disorders such as socio/psychopath. Please don't tell me its to keep the population down because that should be left to farmers protecting their land/livestock not every knobarse in the country who owns a shotgun/spade/funking cage full of ferrets

It wasn't me!

laylah wrote: »

This is kinda what I mean. I'm a vegan myself but see nothing wrong with people eating meat to survive (not that you have to) which means I see nothing wrong with killing an animal for this purpose. Some of you need to have another read of my original post. It's the needless klling of foxes for sport that I don't understand-why is this fun? There is a proven link between animal cruelty and mental disorders such as socio/psychopath. Please don't tell me its to keep the population down because that should be left to farmers protecting their land/livestock not every knobarse in the country who owns a shotgun/spade/funking cage full of ferrets

The goal of hunting is to put yourself in a position whereby you've outwitted an animal which is well equipped to detect and evade you. The kill is the culmination of this, and that's why there's no real joy in the kill itself, aside from the pride and relief in making it efficiently and humanely. Farmers have a full time job, and they rely on assistance from hunters to control their predator numbers. The relationship is symbiotic in that the hunters in turn get to shoot game animals and the like. For some, hunting a predator as canny as the fox is their main attraction. For me, it's a means to hunting animals for the table and a way to support the farmers. Nothing wrong with either.

Hondata92

laylah wrote: »

This is kinda what I mean. I'm a vegan myself but see nothing wrong with people eating meat to survive (not that you have to) which means I see nothing wrong with killing an animal for this purpose. Some of you need to have another read of my original post. It's the needless klling of foxes for sport that I don't understand-why is this fun? There is a proven link between animal cruelty and mental disorders such as socio/psychopath. Please don't tell me its to keep the population down because that should be left to farmers protecting their land/livestock not every knobarse in the country who owns a shotgun/spade/funking cage full of ferrets

NONE of the farmers i shoot for have their own firearms let alone the time to go out and shoot vermin.

Shooting isnt animal cruelty and i now of no hunters that go out to cause animals any harm or distress let alone cruelty

Have you ever heard/seen anyone using a ferret to catch/kill foxs it would be like using a cat to catch a wolf

And to call all licensed firearm owners knobarses is a serious statement

You may need to actually go and see what damage wild animals can actually do.

Since you are a vegan im curious to know if you have to take vitamin/mineral supplements?

I know they say dont feed the trolls but when your know your right its hard not to.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

There's a lot of ignorance in this thread... It's cringeworthy to say the least.

Aoifey!

Hadley Unsightly Liver wrote: »

There's a lot of ignorance in this thread... It's cringeworthy to say the least.

Care to elaborate?

I can't see how peoples opinions are "ignorance"

Einhard

dark crystal wrote: »

Nope, I eat meat.

I just don't get why anyone would kill an animal simply for pleasure. Killing animals specifically bred for consumption is one thing, but hunting and killing an animal in the wild, merely for the pleasure of doing so, I honestly can't fathom why someone would take any pleasure in it, is all.

Just my view.

So you do condone the killing of animals for pleasure.

I mean, you eat meat, when you could survive by eating vegetables and fruits. I presume you do so because you like the taste of meat. You eat meat because you derive pleasure from doing so. Thus, you are complicit in the killing of animals for pleasure.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Aoifey! wrote: »

Care to elaborate?

I can't see how peoples opinions are "ignorance"

Well, some people haven't a clue what they are talking about. City slickers i'm guessing, the pale is heaven etc etc. It's hilarious actually.

"There are other ways to protect chickens" lol... This is a prime example of not knowing wtf is actually going on.

Study some ecology, come back to me with a few years knowledge of actual wildlife.

Most people who derp derp on about "don't kill the foxes" don't know anything about ecology. They think, for some outlandish reason, we are not apart of nature, we are aliens and shouldn't interfer with it.

No shooter is guaranteed to kill any animal with one shot, unless the calibre of rifle is too high for the animal, even then it's not guaranteed. Anyone who says so is talking rubbish. Example a Rabbit at 50 yards versus a .243, chances are, rabbits going to explode.

This debate has been done to death, same rubbish arguments from the "save the animals" brigade not knowing the arse of an animal from it's head. Which is the annoying part.

Hondata92

Hadley Unsightly Liver wrote: »

Well, some people haven't a clue what they are talking about. City slickers i'm guessing, the pale is heaven etc etc. It's hilarious actually.

"There are other ways to protect chickens" lol... This is a prime example of not knowing wtf is actually going on.

Study some ecology, come back to me with a few years knowledge of actual wildlife.

Most people who derp derp on about "don't kill the foxes" don't know anything about ecology. They think, for some outlandish reason, we are not apart of nature, we are aliens and shouldn't interfer with it.

No shooter is guaranteed to kill any animal with one shot, unless the calibre of rifle is too high for the animal, even then it's not guaranteed. Anyone who says so is talking rubbish. Example a Rabbit at 50 yards versus a .243, chances are, rabbits going to explode.

This debate has been done to death, same rubbish arguments from the "save the animals" brigade not knowing the arse of an animal from it's head. Which is the annoying part.

I agree with most of your points

I personally only shoot when i think it will result in an instant kill but there is never a 100% guarentee but in saying that ive never seen an animal suffer at most it moves a few yards n drops or you see it twitching which is a result of the nerves (far from cruelty) and nothing else (hard to be alive and suffering with no brain or heart)

Alot of people would want to see how it really is in the countryside/wild and stop believing that the likes of the "Bambi" movie are how it really is

Aoifey!

Hadley Unsightly Liver wrote: »

Well, some people haven't a clue what they are talking about. City slickers i'm guessing, the pale is heaven etc etc. It's hilarious actually.

Well firstly, I would ask you not to make assumptions that are very wrong. I for one have lived in the country all my life and have only moved to a city int he last few months. Granted I did not live on a farm but I did live in the country, and lived with someone who iwned chickens for some time

"There are other ways to protect chickens" lol... This is a prime example of not knowing wtf is actually going on.

There in fact many ways to help protect chickens, such as fences which also go underground. Would you care to enlighten us with your somehow superior knowledge :rolleyes:

Study some ecology, come back to me with a few years knowledge of actual wildlife.Most people who derp derp on about "don't kill the foxes" don't know anything about ecology. They think, for some outlandish reason, we are not apart of nature, we are aliens and shouldn't interfer with it.

If you wish to only speak to people which have study ecology, AH isn't the place for you.

No shooter is guaranteed to kill any animal with one shot, unless the calibre of rifle is too high for the animal, even then it's not guaranteed. Anyone who says so is talking rubbish. Example a Rabbit at 50 yards versus a .243, chances are, rabbits going to explode.

Which is why I say it is inhumane and I argue that animals feel pain and fear and that they should not be subjected to this pain and fear for selfish motives.

This debate has been done to death, same rubbish arguments from the "save the animals" brigade not knowing the arse of an animal from it's head. Which is the annoying part.

And I suppose you are the only one entitled to an opinion on the matter, are you? Only those who agree with you have a valid arguement :rolleyes:

Oh come on now, most people here (myself included) have been very understanding of the others arguements and points of view. Everyone is not going to agree, that's the bottom line. I am however open to hearing other halves of the arguement to see if someone could change my views, and I would happily listen to you...but only if you lose that superior attitude you seem to have.

Hondata92

Aoifey! wrote: »

Well firstly, I would ask you not to make assumptions that are very wrong. I for one have lived in the country all my life and have only moved to a city int he last few months. Granted I did not live on a farm but I did live in the country, and lived with someone who iwned chickens for some time


There in fact many ways to help protect chickens, such as fences which also go underground. Would you care to enlighten us with your somehow superior knowledge :rolleyes:


If you wish to only speak to people which have study ecology, AH isn't the place for you.


Which is why I say it is inhumane and I argue that animals feel pain and fear and that they should not be subjected to this pain and fear for selfish motives.


And I suppose you are the only one entitled to an opinion on the matter, are you? Only those who agree with you have a valid arguement :rolleyes:

Oh come on now, most people here (myself included) have been very understanding of the others arguements and points of view. Everyone is not going to agree, that's the bottom line. I am however open to hearing other halves of the arguement to see if someone could change my views, and I would happily listen to you...but only if you lose that superior attitude you seem to have.

Im sorry but for a minute i thought you were a fairly level headed person but upon seeing that you are barely old enough to drink/smoke/vote and that you seem to think Marijuana is good despite being to broke to buy it, ive lost alot of respect for what you are saying.

IMO you only became a vegetarian to be a non conformist or to act out against your parents or maybe your parents are vegetarian but anyway your doing it to prove a point to someone or believing in someone elses views and not your own.

Last thing im going to do is debate whether or not shooting is ethical or not when talking to someone who cant wait for rag week to get hammered on wkd and get stoned (money depending)

Sorry but thats just my opinion Tracy

Sorry if i have gone off topic

Aoifey!

Hondata92 wrote: »

Im sorry but for a minute i thought you were a fairly level headed person but upon seeing that you are barely old enough to drink/smoke/vote and that you seem to think Marijuana is good despite being to broke to buy it, ive lost alot of respect for what you are saying.

IMO you only became a vegetarian to be a non conformist or to act out against your parents or maybe your parents are vegetarian but anyway your doing it to prove a point to someone or believing in someone elses views and not your own.

Last thing im going to do is debate whether or not shooting is ethical or not when talking to someone who cant wait for rag week to get hammered on wkd and get stoned (money depending)

Sorry but thats just my opinion Tracy

Sorry if i have gone off topic

...so you just decided to stalk my recent posts and completely bash anything I think or believe in? Well from where I'm sitting, regargless of age, I am a much MUCH more mature person than you.

Not that I feel I have to justify myself to someone who writes a post like that, but...
Yes I, like many other people believe that Marijuana should be legalised for many reaons that I do not want to go into on a comlpletely unrelated thread, PM if you wish in that topic.

I've been a vegetarian since I was 8 because I believe in it, it is my lifestyle, it is what I want and it is how I think things should be, nothing to do with being "non comformist", as a matter of fact most my friends don't even know I'm vegetarian as I don't feel the need to shout it from the rooftops.

A debate is about the issue at hand, not what I do or do not do in my spare time. Oh wow, next week I plan to consume alcohol at a social event, god forbide that would ever happen!

My name is Aoife thank you very much, you found out my mother considered called me Tracy, well done.


Consider yourself reported for personal abuse.

pragmatic1

People who derive pleasure from killing animals are cunts. Simples.

Manic Moran

I've found shooting people to be far more challenging. They shoot back. I've never tried shooting at animals, doesn't do anything for me.

Fox hunts ala UK with big red coats, horseback, snooty looking dogs and egos the size of a small country = very bad

Shooting foxes to control their population and protect livestock = very good.

Do not fox hunts with big red coats etc contribute to controlling the population? I mean, it's inefficient, but it contributes.

I don't know anyone personally who hunts for the sheer pleasure of killing, and I know plenty of hunters. It's pretty much bad form. It's either for varminting or for the 'whole effect' of going out, finding your prey, killing it, and then eating what you have killed. Kindof like going fishing, except 'catch and release' isn't a practical subdivision.

There are a whole slew of rules out there varying from what calibre round you can use (eg around here using a military-grade 5.56mm round on a deer is illegal as it's not powerful enough to reliably cause a quick kill) through when or where you can hunt, to what age animals they have to be (depending on species). As long as the rules are stayed within, what's the problem.

NTM

stick shooter

Aoifey! wrote: »

...so you just decided to stalk my recent posts and completely bash anything I think or believe in? Well from where I'm sitting, regargless of age, I am a much MUCH more mature person than you.

Not that I feel I have to justify myself to someone who writes a post like that, but...
Yes I, like many other people believe that Marijuana should be legalised for many reaons that I do not want to go into on a comlpletely unrelated thread, PM if you wish in that topic.

I've been a vegetarian since I was 8 because I believe in it, it is my lifestyle, it is what I want and it is how I think things should be, nothing to do with being "non comformist", as a matter of fact most my friends don't even know I'm vegetarian as I don't feel the need to shout it from the rooftops.

A debate is about the issue at hand, not what I do or do not do in my spare time. Oh wow, next week I plan to consume alcohol at a social event, god forbide that would ever happen!

My name is Aoife thank you very much, you found out my mother considered called me Tracy, well done.


Consider yourself reported for personal abuse.

hahahaha you are reporting hondata92 why . for pointing out the fact you are a pot smoking, veggie eating , tree huger :D

Caoimhín

I have no problem with banning shooting completely, but only as long as natural predators, such as wolves, are reintroduced. That way the ecosystem is kept in balance.

I find it astonishing how some of the animal rights activists have absolutely no understanding of ecology. Truly, they would be better off reading about the ecosystem than releasing non-native vermin into the countryside.

stick shooter

pragmatic1 wrote: »

People who derive pleasure from killing animals are cunts. Simples.

intelligent language :rolleyes: If you dont know what you are on about how about you say noting at all , If thats the best comment you can come up with;)

Cú Giobach

We have to kill wild animals left right and center because nature can't control the populations of wild animals itself. Sure before humans were around and so able to cull various species the planet was fucked with the place overran with various animals, without us this island would just be a seething mass of foxes, deer, badgers etc. :rolleyes:

pragmatic1

stick shooter wrote: »

intelligent language :rolleyes: If you dont know what you are on about how about you say noting at all , If thats the best comment you can come up with;)

Yeah because a bad word somehow compromises the validity of my statement.:rolleyes:

dark crystal

Cú Giobach wrote: »

We have to kill wild animals left right and center because nature can't control the populations of wild animals itself. Sure before humans were around and so able to cull various species the planet was fucked with the place overran with various animals, without us this island would just be a seething mass of foxes, deer, badgers etc. :rolleyes:

Indeed.

How mother nature ever survived and evolved without humans with guns, I'll never know.

Gummy Panda

Aoifey! wrote: »

Consider yourself reported for personal abuse.

LOL

That's not personal abuse.

stick shooter

dark crystal wrote: »

Indeed.

How mother nature ever survived and evolved without humans with guns, I'll never know.

What a miss informed statement:rolleyes:

It wasn't me!

Guys, let's address the points and not attack other people's lifestyles. For the most part, that's exactly what we're trying to prevent ourselves being subject to in the first place.

To those saying leave it to nature to sort out a balance, that would be fine if we only had a limited number of native species, all with natural predators to prevent too much competition for resources, but unfortunately this is not the case. While this is the product of human interference and the introduction of non-native species and the destruction of predators (to say nothing of the destruction of habitat by all forms of farming and the construction of towns and cities) it's not good enough to merely wash our hands of it and leave it to nature to sort out by disease epidemics and famine. This also results in the eradication of resources and so contributes to the deterioration of the environment as a whole. Culling animals has been proven worldwide to be the most effective way to promote healthy, strong populations, which fit the resources available without destroying them.

Auldloon

Hondata92 wrote: »

Im sorry but for a minute i thought you were a fairly level headed person but upon seeing that you are barely old enough to drink/smoke/vote and that you seem to think Marijuana is good despite being to broke to buy it, ive lost alot of respect for what you are saying.

IMO you only became a vegetarian to be a non conformist or to act out against your parents or maybe your parents are vegetarian but anyway your doing it to prove a point to someone or believing in someone elses views and not your own.

Last thing im going to do is debate whether or not shooting is ethical or not when talking to someone who cant wait for rag week to get hammered on wkd and get stoned (money depending)

Sorry but thats just my opinion Tracy

Sorry if i have gone off topic

Stalker:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Dyr

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Guys, let's address the points and not attack other people's lifestyles. For the most part, that's exactly what we're trying to prevent ourselves being subject to in the first place.

To those saying leave it to nature to sort out a balance, that would be fine if we only had a limited number of native species, all with natural predators to prevent too much competition for resources, but unfortunately this is not the case. While this is the product of human interference and the introduction of non-native species and the destruction of predators

By and large, who introduced non native pest species? Yep, you got it, Hunters. If the deer population was under control in this country, hunters would'nt be breathing a sigh of relief and thinking "my work is done at least". They'd be trying to get those numbers back up to pest levels. Hell, from what I hear that's already happening out wesht :eek:

Nodin

laylah wrote: »

I was just browsing there and came across something scary that made me wonder...how can people hunt/shoot foxes? I mean genuinely I don't understand how people can stare down the barrel of a shotgun and kill such a magnificent animal without a care in the world?

Its to help them evolve hands so they can shoot back.

It wasn't me!

Bambi wrote: »

By and large, who introduced non native pest species? Yep, you got it, Hunters. If the deer population was under control in this country, hunters would'nt be breathing a sigh of relief and thinking "my work is done at least". They'd be trying to get those numbers back up to pest levels. Hell, from what I hear that's already happening out wesht :eek:

True enough, but not responsible hunters, a very small minority who are happy to inflict these species on an ecosystem which hasn't developed around them, and that's wrong. Management isn't a job with a finishing line. It's an ongoing process.

stick shooter

Bambi wrote: »

By and large, who introduced non native pest species? Yep, you got it, Hunters. If the deer population was under control in this country, hunters would'nt be breathing a sigh of relief and thinking "my work is done at least". They'd be trying to get those numbers back up to pest levels. Hell, from what I hear that's already happening out wesht :eek:

Interesting point of view . So its hunter who introduced non native species Do you have a clue about deer stalking ??

Cybertron85

It's very simple really: Killing an animal for food/clothing is fine, killing an animal for pleasure is sick.

eilo1

Cybertron85 wrote: »

It's very simple really: Killing an animal for food/clothing is fine, killing an animal for pleasure is sick.

Who do you think is killing for pleasure?

Cybertron85

Every now and then you hear about some scumbag setting a dog on fire etc.

Eric Cartman

Ive tried pheasant shooting but never fox hunting, would like to though , The animal is dead in 1 go so they dont feel any pain and its a bit of fun, foxes dont really help us that much in society , its a sport and I think its a perfectly good use of your time , the only people who seem to object to it are hippys who thing LSD should be legal or vegetarians who try and force their opinion on you...

lesserspottedchloe

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Ive tried pheasant shooting but never fox hunting, would like to though , The animal is dead in 1 go so they dont feel any pain and its a bit of fun, foxes dont really help us that much in society , its a sport and I think its a perfectly good use of your time , the only people who seem to object to it are hippys who thing LSD should be legal or vegetarians who try and force their opinion on you...

Nah that's not really true and also where are you living-1960's SanFran? There are people from all walks of life who are against cruelty to animals-it's actually people like you who are in the minority that take pleasure in hurting/killing creatures that are smaller, less intelligent(?) and no match for a gun/large spade.I know a girl who goes shooting pheasants with her father which they do very humanely and they feed a family of six with the bird-that animal didn't suffer or die in vain. I also know of a bunch of knobs up the country that go in groups of twenty, with 15 dogs and 20 shotguns-the dogs rip the fox in four after it has been chased for miles,its exhausted and petrified-there's nothing fair about that.

fabbydabby

A mate of mine shot his cat in the face at point blank range with a 12-gauge.

His justification for doing this was putting it out of its misery, but I pointed out that the cat was only in misery because his dad didn't kill it when he shot it two days previous with the rifle.

Apparently it was old and needed to be put down or something.

Moral of the story? Um, I'm not sure. But if you're going to kill something, do it right. Kill it in the face.

major bill

Naikon wrote: »

I ****ing love eating animals. I do not understand though why we are so reluctant towards killing and eating people but not animals. It's pretty arrogant to place the life of a human over an animal. I will still be eating my steak rare mind you.

*Edit - Human does not taste too good, apparently. *

Because we are not cannibals nor are the lions,tigers and bears(oh my).......we are predators and killing other species is our game thats nature!!!

lesserspottedchloe

fabbydabby wrote: »

A mate of mine shot his cat in the face at point blank range with a 12-gauge.

His justification for doing this was putting it out of its misery, but I pointed out that the cat was only in misery because his dad didn't kill it when he shot it two days previous with the rifle.

Apparently it was old and needed to be put down or something.

Moral of the story? Um, I'm not sure. But if you're going to kill something, do it right. Kill it in the face.

aaah..thanks for that but your redneck mate and his cat have no relevence to this conversation and your weird trolling isn't very convincing :rolleyes:

eilo1

Cybertron85 wrote: »

Every now and then you hear about some scumbag setting a dog on fire etc.

You would wonder what goes on in their head, my cat went missing around halloween time I still worry about what happened to him. Poor boffin.:(

lesserspottedchloe

eilo1 wrote: »

You would wonder what goes on in their head, my cat went missing around halloween time I still worry about what happened to him. Poor boffin.:(

aw
It could have been all the fireworks/bangers that scared him off-maybe he found a foster family? My friends cat went missing for a year and a half-turns out she was living the life with a family in the neighbouring estate!

My name is URL

Why are people bringing up cats being shot in the face and dogs being set alight by scrotes? That has nothing to do with hunting.. and is just scummy behaviour. The vast majority of people who hunt have great respect for animals. If they didn't they wouldn't expend so much time, energy and money on partaking in the sport in a way which ensures that the scummy element cannot align themselves with them.

stick shooter

My name is URL wrote: »

Why are people bringing up cats being shot in the face and dogs being set alight by scrotes? That has nothing to do with hunting.. and is just scummy behaviour. The vast majority of people who hunt have great respect for animals. If they didn't they wouldn't expend so much time, energy and money on partaking in the sport in a way which ensures that the scummy element cannot align themselves with them.

Was this thread not about foxes :D:D

the_syco

There are three ways to kill a fox:
A) a gun
spring loaded trap.
C) wire noose thing.

"A" is humane. If it's still alive, reload, and shoot again. You aim at the fox, pull trigger, fox dies.

"B" & "C": Slow death. Animal will chew off their own leg, or die. Kill foxes, or anything else with legs. If you forget about where you put the trap, the animal may get eaten alive when it's too weak to flee.

"A" also needs a license, and a gun safe. "B" & "C" doesn't.

eilo1

the_syco wrote: »

There are three ways to kill a fox:
A) a gun, which you need a license, and a gun safe
spring loaded trap.
C) wire noose thing.

"A" is humane. If it's still alive, reload, and shoot again. You aim at the fox, pull trigger, fox dies.

"B" & "C": Slow death. Animal will chew off their own leg, or die. Kill foxes, or anything else with legs. If you forget about where you put the trap, the animal may get eaten alive when it's too weak to flee.

"A" also needs a license, and a gun cabinet. "B" & "C" doesn't.

Em you forgot hunting with dogs, hunting on horse back again with dogs oh and poison (although I think this is illegal???)

Im not sure what you are saying, is your point simply that shooting is the best way? If so I agree and I think most people would too.

stick shooter

eilo1 wrote: »

Em you forgot hunting with dogs, hunting on horse back again with dogs oh and poison (although I think this is illegal???)

Im not sure what you are saying, is your point simply that shooting is the best way? If so I agree and I think most people would too.

well it is shooting is the best option;)

pragmatic1

eilo1 wrote: »

Em you forgot hunting with dogs, hunting on horse back again with dogs oh and poison (although I think this is illegal???)

Im not sure what you are saying, is your point simply that shooting is the best way? If so I agree and I think most people would too.

Its still legal in Ireland.

Sparks

eilo1 wrote: »

poison (although I think this is illegal???)

It is, mainly because it's utterly indiscriminate. You might kill the fox, but you'll kill everything else that eats the poison, and if you lay enough in the wrong spot, you risk contaminating water supplies with runoff and so on.

Naikon wrote: »

Human does not taste too good, apparently.

*cough*barbecue*cough*
*ahem*allegedly*ahem*

eilo1

Sparks wrote: »

It is, mainly because it's utterly indiscriminate. You might kill the fox, but you'll kill everything else that eats the poison, and if you lay enough in the wrong spot, you risk contaminating water supplies with runoff and so on.*cough*barbecue*cough*
*ahem*allegedly*ahem*

Thanks!

Einhard

Cybertron85 wrote: »

It's very simple really: Killing an animal for food/clothing is fine, killing an animal for pleasure is sick.

This is a ridiculous argument. There's no imperative to eat meat; we do it for pleasure. Any human carnivore therefore, who condemns hunting for sport is either completely delusional or a complete hypocrite.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Aoifey! wrote: »

Well firstly, I would ask you not to make assumptions that are very wrong. I for one have lived in the country all my life and have only moved to a city int he last few months. Granted I did not live on a farm but I did live in the country, and lived with someone who iwned chickens for some time

How can you have lived in the country and not have some knowledge on the subject? What's the deal with chickens? Do foxes only eat chickens?

There in fact many ways to help protect chickens, such as fences which also go underground. Would you care to enlighten us with your somehow superior knowledge :rolleyes:

As I have done many times in the past, sure. The "foxes eat chickens" is also a weak argument. It's not their only food source and I couldn't imagine a farmer relying solely on a coop full of chickens to survive on. May cost a few bob to replace, but it's not the sole reason hunters hunt foxes.

Some hunt to protect livestock, some hunt because it balances out the local ecological system, some hunt because they can.

If you wish to only speak to people which have study ecology, AH isn't the place for you.

Where did I say that? Who are you to tell me where to post?

It's better to enter a debate when you have a slight idea of wtf you are talking about, it's wise.

Which is why I say it is inhumane and I argue that animals feel pain and fear and that they should not be subjected to this pain and fear for selfish motives.

I like meat, i'll continue to eat meat, the fact that an animal may suffer pain for a brief moment will not sway me.

And I suppose you are the only one entitled to an opinion on the matter, are you? Only those who agree with you have a valid arguement :rolleyes:

When people have some idea of wtf they are talking about that opinion is respected, generally... but when some tree hugging hippy student comes on tells me that eating meat or hunting is wrong and "inhumane" you will find that it is quite humane. It's extremely natural and it's only in recent times that we developed this silly idea that eating meat is bad and somehow "wrong". Where did we get this idea from? Vegans existed long before this, but for other reasons such as allergies and the likes.

Oh come on now, most people here (myself included) have been very understanding of the others arguements and points of view. Everyone is not going to agree, that's the bottom line. I am however open to hearing other halves of the arguement to see if someone could change my views, and I would happily listen to you...but only if you lose that superior attitude you seem to have.

I could change your views? Highly unlikely... :rolleyes:

Caoimhín wrote: »

I have no problem with banning shooting completely, but only as long as natural predators, such as wolves, are reintroduced. That way the ecosystem is kept in balance.

Are we not a natural predator???

I find it astonishing how some of the animal rights activists have absolutely no understanding of ecology. Truly, they would be better off reading about the ecosystem than releasing non-native vermin into the countryside.

It's the same for most things people want banned... they haven't a fcuking clue about it, they don't understand it and fear it so the only solution they see is to ban it...

Bambi wrote: »

By and large, who introduced non native pest species? Yep, you got it, Hunters. If the deer population was under control in this country, hunters would'nt be breathing a sigh of relief and thinking "my work is done at least". They'd be trying to get those numbers back up to pest levels. Hell, from what I hear that's already happening out wesht :eek:

Where did you get this bullshít from? Dear is tastey, every try it? Much nicer than beef...

From what you hear... lol good one.

Sparks

Einhard wrote: »

This is a ridiculous argument. There's no imperative to eat meat; we do it for pleasure.

Actually we do it because we require certain amino acids and other compounds in our diet which cannot be readily obtained from plant material alone without extensive technical knowledge and resources which we didn't have as a species until the last two hundred years (out of the 60,000 or so we've been around for), and which we still don't have in a widespread enough form to feed all seven billion or so humans on the planet.

Fact is, you have canines and molars for a reason - we're omnivores, we eat both meat and plants, and need to do so for our health (barring very specialised diets that we cannot as yet replicate for everyone and the universal adoption of which would mean malnutrition and starvation for a large segment of the human race within a short timeframe).

And since we cannot yet grow edible meat in a vat without expending a few orders of magnitude more energy on it than we would on a food animal (something that would destroy our ecosystem, let alone our economy), and since the current industrialisation of our production of food animals is frankly unethical, hunting (done humanely) is frankly the most ethical, humane and ecological way to put food on the table.

sheesh

laylah wrote: »

I was just browsing there and came across something scary that made me wonder...how can people hunt/shoot foxes? I mean genuinely I don't understand how people can stare down the barrel of a shotgun and kill such a magnificent animal without a care in the world?

I think its a hunting instinct. I don't agree with this thought that people are lacking in some way (sounds a bit self serving - I wouldn't do it therefore it must be wrong for everyone)

If you are brought up surrounded by hunting you will obviously view a fox differently than someone who isn't. that does not make you a bad person.

I fish whenever i catch a fish I notice how lovely the colours are and if I am keeping it I kill it as quickly as possible after that it is a nice meal to me and I'm looking forward to eating it. its not really a problem for me. Does that make me lacking in some way?