National Battle of the Bands - Why are threads being removed?

raindog.promo

There was a thread locked in the bands and musicians forum which may or may not have been insinuating misdeeds by a moderator.

I think if a moderator comes onto a forum informing people that there is a competition seeking entrants that is fine.
But if a moderator were to endorse an event such as this (which in the future, turns out not to have happened) then there are some issues raised.
Namely, a reader of the boards would give higher trust or be more influenced by a moderators post as opposed to just an everyday poster on boards.

I do think that issue is worth considering to avoid future upsets.

What really made me post this though was seeing the quoted post below, which has been locked, the linked thread in the post below has been removed. That does kind of raise more questions to why that thread has been removed when it's obviously a part of some disagreement over on the bands and musicians forum.

Can i ask why this thread has been locked please?

The thread raises some very serious questions over bands being ripped off over a possible phoney battle of the bands competition which was at least recommended by a member of the boards community, a mod in the Bands & Musicians forum, Miju.

There is possibly enough evidence to suggest that Miju knows more about this competition than he has admitted to on the locked thread.

In this previous thread Miju says to email him at '************
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=770864

The first named judge in the National Battle of the Bands blurb is 'Damien Gill'

"THE JUDGES
Throughout each quarter final & up we will have a panel of judges who will be judging all the acts. Out of the list below we guarantee at least 3 of the people below will be on your panel of judges which is comprised of various people from radio, record labels & all other areas of the music industry. This list will be updated regularly.

Damien Gill - Music News.ie - A+R Co-Ordinator
Gheorghe Rusu - Music News.ie - Editor
Marian Blanc - Music News.ie - PR Co-Ordinator
Denis Plesca - Merchandising Co-Ordinator"

(taken from KPNUTSY's post in the now locked thread.)

Miju is not the victim here, the people who are down money from entering the National Battle of the Bands are.

DrFroggies

I have to say i'd be a bit concerned about the locking of these threads as having read through the original thread it seems to have been locked with interested parties/contributors to the thread directed toward the feedback forum, then the first post in the feedback forum was also locked...with the poster advised to contact the mods...but given that the overall issue would seem to be one of some interest to other members of Boards.ie it seems strange to lock the thread as others may have wished to contribute to it.

This is still a Forum isn't it?

Ps. I know the reason given was 'nobody on this forum knows why the thread was closed' but the posters opening question was not the title of the thread and others may have other questions or feedback points to make on this issue (again a fair thing to do in a forum one would think) - having been directed toward the feedback forum (even linked) by another mod.

Tom Dunne

Ok, first step - have you contacted the moderator in question?

DrFroggies

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Ok, first step - have you contacted the moderator in question?

Exactly! Case in point if threads are locked we can't know if the mod in question has been contacted or get any further information on the progress of the issue which benefits neither the orignial poster/concerned parties/other contributers or the mod in question.

For example if your post relates to the original issue then it should be in the original thread but its now in this one so we enter a kind of maze of convoluting issues.

If you mean contact the parties responsible for locking the threads...that would essentially defeat the purpose of open discussion on a forum...as the concern would be that there is no real reason for these threads to have been locked in the first place as all the issues raised were legitimate and most posters have only asked for a civil response.

Possibly the members concerned have contacted mods privately or made complaints etc but thats not really this issue. This is a public forum and nothing in either of the locked threads should have resulted in them being locked.

Certainly having been directed toward the feedback forum that at least should have remained open.

Locking threads on whimsy is bad practice and somewhat damages the integrity of boards.ie - which i think is very unfortunate.

lordgoat

DrFroggies wrote: »

Exactly! Case in point if threads are locked we can't know if the mod in question has been contacted or get any further information on the progress of the issue which benefits neither the orignial poster/concerned parties/other contributers or the mod in question.

For example if your post relates to the original issue then it should be in the original thread but its now in this one so we enter a kind of maze of convoluting issues.

If you mean contact the parties responsible for locking the threads...that would essentially defeat the purpose of open discussion on a forum...as the concern would be that there is no real reason for these threads to have been locked in the first place as all the issues raised were legitimate and most posters have only asked for a civil response.

Possibly the members concerned have contacted mods privately or made complaints etc but thats not really this issue. This is a public forum and nothing in either of the locked threads should have resulted in them being locked.

Certainly having been directed toward the feedback forum that at least should have remained open.

Locking threads on whimsy is bad practice and somewhat damages the integrity of boards.ie - which i think is very unfortunate.

Message all the mods of the forum and ask why was the thread locked. You might be surprised to find out there is a reason.

TBH if this happened in alt/indie i'd have locked it as possible spamming. in gigs/events i'd have tolerated it but may have sent a PM asking to explain the link between poster and gig. That said i can see the argument being made in the OP.

raindog.promo

I was not complaining about the thread being locked [http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056172104]. However it has thrown up an interesting case.

This competition (NBOTB - National Battle of the Bands) was first mentioned/advertised by a mod (Miju)
[Source : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055844512]

The original blurb for NBOTB lists the panel of judges for the competition, mainly staffers from Musicnews.ie :

NBOTB - WHO's WHO
Online Partners - www.musicnews.ie

THE JUDGES
Damien Gill - Music News.ie - A+R Co-Ordinator
Gheorghe Rusu - Music News.ie - Editor
Marian Blanc - Music News.ie - PR Co-Ordinator
Denis Plesca - Merchandising Co-Ordinator

[Source: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70562003&postcount=29]

Miju identifies himself as a member of musicnews.ie here:
[source : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65268900&postcount=1]

and here:
[source : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=65457543&postcount=2]

Miju says he is "very good friends with the organisers" and is "helping them out".
[Source : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66399480&postcount=15]

As seen above, Damien Gill is listed as being on a panel of judges and being a part of musicnews.ie which is listed as NBOTB's online partners.

Miju identifies himself as Damien Gill here :
[Source : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=770864]

This begs the question what is meant by "helping them out"?

From Miju's other posts, he seems like a nice guy and helpful to other Irish musicians, however he is involved with this NBOTB competition (to what extent is unclear) which has been advertised through boards.ie and this competition (or it's organisers) has taken money off boards.ie users. The others involved with the competition have left no contact information to themselves personally (as opposed to a generic email address).

As has been pointed out, there seems to be no other advertisement for this event other than what was posted on boards, and for an event that was supposed to take place in 30 counties, this seems a bit strange.

The 2 sites, musicnews.ie and NBOTB have gone, and there has been no correspondance from the organisers since. One could assume from this that the competition is no longer happening and the entrants should be reimbursed their money.

***************************

I would suggest that

1) Miju should clear up the confusion surrounding his involvement in the competition. It is his choice to do so, I am not demanding it nor am I suggesting he be forced to do so.

2) and I think this should seriously be given consideration by the boards.ie mods/organisers/runners/whathaveyou
Posts that advertise competitions or anything else which requires people to pay an entry fee should be forbidden or at least have a disclaimer in the post stating that boards.ie has nothing to do with it, does not endorse or accept any responsibility to any losses incurred by boards.ie users who enter said competition after reading the post.

Of course, should this apply to pay to play gigs, or gigs where bands have to sell a certain percentage or tickets? I don't know, certainly something that should be discussed.

The fact remains, boards.ie musicians read the post for this competition and entered. It now seems that the competition is not happening and the boards.ie musicians are not being reimbursed their entry fee (If you wish to draw that conclusion from the fact that no replies from the organisers have been forthcoming and this competition was meant to have taken place in September 2010).

Wolfe Tone

Terrific detective work.

Darragh

I'm going to look into this tomorrow and will let you know.

Malice

Just to keep everyone informed there has been on-going discussion between me, the other Bands & Musicians moderators and the admins regarding this issue since the whole thing blew up. I haven't read every single post that has been written so apologies if I reference something that has already been covered. As a musician myself I'd hate to be messed around like some people have with this and I can fully understand the frustration.

Miju's stance on this is that if he posts anything further publicly it may well land Boards in legal trouble and affect an action currently ongoing.

It is not his or anyone else's place to be taking the organiser's role here on Boards.ie for communication with bands or for taking the flak for the lack of it.

KPNUTSY

Malice wrote: »

Miju's stance on this is that if he posts anything further publicly it may well land Boards in legal trouble and affect an action currently ongoing

A wise course of action from Miju, undoubtedly, it's pointless to be dragging Boards.ie into a legal fight that's not hers.
I do think though that he can help matters here without adversely affecting any legal actions that may be in train. Miju could post the name(s) of the persons/company behind NBOTB. I would suggest that this thread would be a suitable arena, unless it's locked in short order, which experience tells us isnt beyond the bounds of possibility.
This nugget of information would serve a number of purposes
(1) Any posters on Boards.ie who entered the competition could contact the organiser directly for recompense, thereby taking the matter off Boards
(2) Miju would cease to be the subject of any comment/subject of threads and general harassment in relation to this matter

It may seem unfair to bring the focus back to Miju/Damien Gill, but as the only point of contact for this, and self confessed "very good friend" of the organiser, there is nobody else to ask.

It may seem trivial, but lets not forget, money has changed hands..

DrFroggies

lordgoat wrote: »

Message all the mods of the forum and ask why was the thread locked. You might be surprised to find out there is a reason.

I'd like to think that there is a reason for most decisions made in life...whether there's any reason to the reason is another question

But my point (quite aside from the original post and those concerns) is that as someone reading with only a cursory interest in the issues (as opposed to someone directly involved) being required to contact mods directly via pm (and away from public eyes) has a somewhat subversive feel to it especially having been directed to the feedback forum.

lordgoat wrote: »

TBH if **this happened in alt/indie i'd have locked it as possible spamming. in gigs/events i'd have tolerated it but may have sent a PM asking to explain the link between poster and gig. That said i can see the argument being made in the OP.

**The original post or the one opened in feedback?

Malice

Reading the two locked threads it should be obvious why they were locked. The first one (in the Bands & Musicians forum) was locked because it had degenerated into a witchhunt on Miju. The second one (in Feedback) was locked because the question to be asked could have been answered by sending a PM to the mods of the forum. I don't know about the other two mods of Bands & Musicians but I didn't receive any PMs asking the question.

DrFroggies

Malice wrote: »

Reading the two locked threads it should be obvious why they were locked. The first one (in the Bands & Musicians forum) was locked because it had degenerated into a witchhunt on Miju. The second one (in Feedback) was locked because the question to be asked could have been answered by sending a PM to the mods of the forum. I don't know about the other two mods of Bands & Musicians but I didn't receive any PMs asking the question.

Hi Malice, Yeah there were a couple of posts which were ill judged in the original thread, with one poster in particular being a little silly but it certainly wasn't a witchhunt most posters only wanted a reasonable response and some kind of civil and considerate update (as you offered on this thread...which you'll notice hasn't degenerated into any inappropriate posts) also reading the first thread it seems more the fact that one poster suggested that mods were paid that resulted in the locking of that thread...clarification would have resolved that issue rather than locking the thread. So it's probably not as obvious as you think...which is part of the problem.

As for the second thread (in Feedback) directing the OP of that thread to pm a mod would have been adequate without LOCKING the thread - especially as i've said previously when the title of the thread was not the OPs opening question but simply a continuation of the original thread...which was opened in Feedback as directed by...a Mod!

I understand that there's no way of avoiding the discretionary nature of a moderators task and appreciate that the moderators on these forums (particularly Bands & Musicians) are usually fair in their decisions but I also think it's vital to the overall health of Boards.ie that those discretionary powers are not abused and that as members we should ensure that when we have concerns in this regard we should highlight them in this public forum as well as privately (via pm) if neccessary - wouldn't you agree?

thefarm

Malice wrote: »

The second one (in Feedback) was locked because the question to be asked could have been answered by sending a PM to the mods of the forum. I don't know about the other two mods of Bands & Musicians but I didn't receive any PMs asking the question.

The Mod that locked the original thread stated that anyone who wanted to start a feeback thread were free to do so.

Once my feedback thread was locked, i pm'd the mod from Bands & Musicians asking for clarification on why the original thread was locked. That was 11/2/11, I am still awaiting a response.

To tell you the truth i'd given up on boards after that. Good to see the issue is possibly being addressed now.

Malice

I haven't got time to address the recent posts fully but all I can say is if you don't get a response from one mod try another one or better yet a Cat Mod. Co-incidentally I happen to fill both roles when it comes to the Bands & Musicians forum as I am the only currently active Music Cat Mod and I also moderate the Bands & Musicians forum. All I can say is that I respond as quickly as I can to any PMs I receive. Even if it's just an "I got your message, will respond as soon a I can" type of message.

RasTa

How much to enter and how did the bands pay?

Malice

RasTa wrote: »

How much to enter and how did the bands pay?

It's all detailed in the thread but it was €5 to enter. I have no idea how the bands paid.

niall1976

Hey Guys,

Just wondering if there is any update on this thread or feedback from the mods.

Looks like its gone a bit dry

It would be great to hear where you guys (mods) got to.

Cheers,
Niall

raindog.promo

niall1976 wrote: »

Hey Guys,

Just wondering if there is any update on this thread or feedback from the mods.

Looks like its gone a bit dry

It would be great to hear where you guys (mods) got to.

Cheers,
Niall

+1

I'd also be interested in hearing if any of this was resolved, and did anyone who entered get their money back?

*NOTE: I'm not suggesting that boards.ie is in any way responsible for the retrieval of any entrance money.

Malice

niall1976 wrote: »

Just wondering if there is any update on this thread or feedback from the mods.

I believe it's best if miju responds to this but given that

Miju's stance on this is that if he posts anything further publicly it may well land Boards in legal trouble and affect an action currently ongoing.

I'm not sure how much feedback he is in a position to give.

niall1976: According to the original thread you were part of one of the bands who was out of pocket. Have you heard anything in relation to the event?

I personally can't comment on it, as I don't have enough information, but I would like to see the bands get refunded any money they spent on it.

We can only wait for Miju to respond when he is able.

niall1976

Malice wrote: »

niall1976: According to the original thread you were part of one of the bands who was out of pocket. Have you heard anything in relation to the event?

Hi Malice, I've never heard a word on this and I did PM Miju.

I can live without the fiver to be honest, I would just like to know what happened to the competition and what were the circumstances.

It seems to have caused a lot of emotion with the boardies in Bands and Musicians and would be good to put it to bed once and for all.

Cheers,

Niall

Malice

niall1976 wrote: »

Hi Malice, I've never heard a word on this and I did PM Miju.

It's a pity that you didn't get a response of some sort.

raindog.promo

Malice wrote: »

It's a pity that you didn't get a response of some sort.

1) As miju was identified as someone involved, promoting and listed on the NBOTB blurb (see post #6) I see his silence as highly dubious, and the fact that he won't say anything for "legal reasons"* coupled with the fact that it is merely his word that he has nothing to do with the organisation (although as in post #6 has clearly been identified as having more than just a passing involvement in it) is bull****. Under the circumstances, I think it is wrong that he should still be modding the bands and musicians forum while this issue is unresolved. I'll leave it at that.

2) Did any band who entered the competition get a receipt or anything in writing or emails with a signature when they gave the money? If not, that was a serious oversight on the part of the bands and they should realise the importance of doing so when money or any sort of agreement is involved. Next time it may not be for so small an amount of money!


*He didn't happen to be a member of the last government perchance? They loved using that excuse.

miju

I'm working until Tuesday at Oxygen lads and I'll reply when I'm back next Wednesday. But I will say this bands were contacted at least a month ago via their email as to the current status.

niall1976

miju wrote: »

But I will say this bands were contacted at least a month ago via their email as to the current status.

Quite frankly Miju, that's a lie.

As a band that entered, I have pm'd you for info with no reply.

I have emailed and phoned both music news an the NBOTB several times with no reply.

I have never received any Communicatiom since the day I paid my money and I think you're behaviour in this matter is dishonourable and verging on dishonest.

In my opinion, you have taken advantage of members of the bands and musicians forum, failed to take responsibility and should be removed from moderator duties before other members become disillusioned with the boards.

I am not interested in receiving my money back at this point but hope that the other moderators take some action to reinstate my belief in this site.

A dissillusioned boardie...

Niall

miju

If you havent recieved an emal niall rather than calling someone a liar why not PM me your email address and I'll glady forward on a copy of the email that was sent out.

In fact same goes for any band who didnt get an email

niall1976

miju wrote: »

If you havent recieved an emal niall rather than calling someone a liar why not PM me your email address and I'll glady forward on a copy of the email that was sent out.

In fact same goes for any band who didnt get an email

Hey Miju,

It's pretty straight forward. Either bands received and email or they didn't. As a band who entered I did not receive an email therefore your statement that bands have received an email is a lie.

That's very different from calling you a liar.

Clearly, NBOTB were happy to take my money and entry but not contact me.

As stated, I had already pm'd you without reply.

All seems pretty factual from here!!

Niall

miju

Niall some genuinely friendly advice Id be VERY careful about the content of your posts and how your phrasing things.

tbh

miju wrote: »

Niall some genuinely friendly advice Id be VERY careful about the content of your posts and how your phrasing things.

Is he wrong miju?

Is there any reason you can't post the contents of the email on this thread?

LoLth

Lads, lets try to keep this civil please.

@Miju: obviously Niall1976 did not receive an email and he says he did PM you before and has tried to contact the organisers. I would suggest you check with the organisers to see if its possible for this to be true. You should also check your PMs to see if there is one from Niall1976 that you may have missed.

@Niall1976: maybe not all bands were contacted and only some were emailed, or the address provided for your band was not the one you are checking. Claiming something is a lie is slightly more harsh than claiming it is incorrect and does infer that the poster is deliberately telling a mistruth. Oversights do happen. Perhaps you could check with another band that you know to see if they received an email. I appreciate that you are disillusioned and possibly quite angry but lets keep the tone on a more pleasant level. that goes for anyone offering "friendly" advice too by the way.

I'm not familiar with the NBoTB but I dont think it was an official boards.ie sponsored/arranged event nor do I think Miju was organising it in his official capacity as a boards.ie mod - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (in the meantime I'll check it out). It might not be entirely suitable for an official NBoTB communication to be posted on a public forum (thats up to the organisers).

Now, Miju is occupied until next week, perhaps we can put this on hold until he gets back (wednesday?) and has time to gives this more attention.

To be honest though, if this wasnt a boards.ie event, then I'm sort of not seeing the relevance of it to boards.ie feedback. I've let it slide until now but if it turns nasty I'm going to have to ask that it be taken elsewhere.

LoLth