My resident settled traveller cork residents.

Deliverance

Lovely salt of the earth types:

Living next to me at the moment, their kids heckle me and every person in every way in an adult language every chance they get. The adults attract all the wrong ones i.e. alchos, kids that are trouble etc, they are 'pretty down with the kids' and cool that way.

They own noisy yappy dogs that bark at me and my friends. One of their nice little 'harmless' canines bit my old mom on the leg one day. Obvious witness and aggrieved party in this case. They left him off the leash because he was 'all bark and no bite boss'.

The communal hallways have become sprayed with aerosol cans with their full names and initials not to mention the innovative use of lighters to burn their actual name into the plastered ceiling. Ironically the benefit of this vandalism is evidence about the vandals. Names are still there as evidence.

Dumping of random rubbish and stuff like old washing machines / appliances in the communall hallways causing obstructions which the council have taken away (after I raised the issue) without penalty to the perpetrators. I photographed exposed payslips in the rubbish that have their name, previous address, current address etc. Plus I have council reports to the event of the removal of said rubbish if and when I need to access said event

Having individuals around and having them smoke hash which smokes up the hallway so much that I can't take my kids out until it clears so that my kids do not get passively stoned in passage.

Having them smoking ciggies outside their own flats with ashtrays outside their own residence, smoke drifts up into others flats, so again passive smoking again for my kids. Ver considerate of them to not expose their own kids to the carciogenic smoke in their own flat. I have photos of ashtrays etc.

Having their teen relatives bring friends back at 3am smashing empty beer bottles at the outside walls, bottles provided by a full to the brim unpaid for recycling bin that they leave open outside full of empty bottles. I have some audio files to this effect. Plus I imagine I could get payment and non payment details from the recycling company to back this up if needed

Having a drunk visitor in the hallway intimidating myself and persons passing by into our own residences asking for 'money for the bus'.

Having their kids run around with a lighter to set fire to other peoples rubbish bins and stuff in the general area, fire brigade were called to put it out. Recorded as an incident with the authorities, just needs me to point them to the perps in this case. Again a link to evidence recorded via the incident via the fire brigade reports if needed.

Can't say **** about them really without being called a racist of some sort despite their 'culture' of ignorence towards 'settled' 'country folk'.

I have documented all the above, and have photos / video to back it all up in an effort to leave my place. Isn't it great that the council house 'minorities' to give them a leg up? I think that is great. They do forget about the us 'country' folk though surely?

The same 'minority' that are given the privelege to have much needed housing turn up every day in jeeps and saloon cars that in combination expense wise could buy a large house. Funny that isn't it?

Funny that a minority in 'some respects' are allowed gain housing via a genuine social concern and then go on to 'take the piss' i.e. exploit a system that genuinely is aimed at folks in this area that are potentially and genuinely in need.

Time for a 'minority report' really as to the seperation within that so called culture i.e. those that are exploiting it over those that need it? Something to think about. Bleeding hearts need not reply;)

Realistic opinions invited on what I think should be a re-evaluation about what should be considered real needy folks in this culture over those that are exploiting the system thereby bringing it down along with quality of life for those that have to live alongside the explotitive 'settled people'.

Oh and yes I can back up everything I have said with photos and timed dated incidents, so this is not a 'hate' thread it is more of a realistic one. I am writing a report to state my case to the council and have done research to that effect.

In the near future I have two options, 1. leave asap and be driven out. or 2.fight back and highlight the antisocial behaviour expressed as the above and hope that something will be done in that respect.

The_Banker

Deliverence you will probably get all sorts of replies saying how your a racist etc...

However, I feel your pain. I had to put up with this "ethnic minority" in a previous life and I know what your going through.

Ill say no more or I will be banned.

Stay strong.

Deliverance

The_Banker wrote: »

Deliverence you will probably get all sorts of replies saying how your a racist etc...

However, I feel your pain. I had to put up with this "ethnic minority" in a previous life and I know what your going through.

Ill say no more or I will be banned.

Stay strong.

People should be allowed to speak their mind on any issue as long as it is done intelligently, responsibly and with forethought based on genuine experience and research. Especially when it comes to sensitive issues.

the censorship of said rightfully thought out issues is damaging in the long run and runs against the grain of the definition of what a 'forum' is. I am open to an actual 'forum', that is what a 'forum' should be. If it does not accomadate free and open discussion as such then its stops being a forum and becomes the view of the person that decides to censor said material.

That is my strong view.

Dale Parish

Get your neighbors together, and "ask" them to leave.

Monty Burnz

...few bad eggs...tar with the same brush...different culture...years of oppression...yadda yadda yadda.

Let's see how I score in PC bull**** bingo.

shell42970

It sounds like your frustration lies with a system that goes out of its way to accommodate a protected ethnic group that then not only fails to acculturate, but also significantly diminishes the quality of life for those already housed there.

There appear to be two problems here. The first is a Council unresponsive to your legitimate concerns and complaints. The second problem is that of education. Are the Travellers being educated as to how to be a responsible, successful part of a community prior to receiving their housing?

My opinion: Helping these groups settle - regardless of whether they come from within or without Ireland - is fine, but it shouldn't be done at the expense of the quality of life of those already here. It must be implemented with some forethought that takes into consideration the culture they're leaving and the culture they're entering, with some transitional assistance and education before and during the switch, possibly with some follow-up in the months after. Housing should never be provided free of consequences should a settled family then choose not to be a responsible member of the community which, I'll add, should apply to anyone receiving free or subsidized housing. There are mainstream Irish families in my neck of the woods who are just as bad as the Travellers you describe, and I'm at a loss as to why they're allowed to behave the way they do when they're living off government charity. They take and take and take, giving nothing of value back to the community.

As far re-evaluating what is deemed "needy", I don't have any suggestions. Seems the country is doing the best it can to crack down on those collecting social welfare when they don't need it. Most of us know people - again, mainstream Irish - who are collecting while they do cash jobs on the side (and we're not talking chump change here), so I'm not willing to single out the Travellers for the cheating that's going on. It appears to be systemic, and when I have asked about the justification for it, what I invariably hear is that because the politicians leading the country are cheating every chance they get, it's okay for the working class to do the same. If I hear "honesty is the road to poverty" one more time, I'll throw up. What a terrible motto to live by! What folks don't seem to understand is that they're not getting retribution from the government (or whomever else they feel is cheating them) with their actions and attitudes - they're hurting those they know and love who earn an honest living every day and whose paycheck every week, in part, is going to support that corrupted attitude. That's my two cents. Again, as with settling ethnic groups successfully, I think it's a matter of education.

gbee

Had this in back in a flat complex in the 60's ~ literally a battle to get in home each evening and a battle to get out anytime too.

I was young then and could more than handle myself and the violence was limited to petrol bombs, stones and fists.

shnaek

Saying what you think is an offence, Deliverance. An official will now be sent around to your place to teach you how to think correctly.

rebel.ranter

The worst thing is that when there us action taken in a situation where there is clear evidence, it us not the perpetrators of the misery that suffer it us those that report the issue that will endure suffering first. Life is unfair like that.

invinciblePRSTV

Move out, no point putting up with this nonsense.

pro_gnostic_8

Get yourself out of there, dude.
You may think should stand up for your rights and fight "the good fight", but my experience with a situation such as this is that it only goes from bad to worse. Tenants such as these will draw even more anti-social types around the immediate area -- your life will become unbearable.

I put up with a similar situation. For twenty years I lived in a flat complex in the Glen; for the last 2-3 years of my tenancy it became like a wasteland due to a couple of the "residents". I just gave up on it; I moved into a fantastic private flat where my rental cost was equal to the council flat. (I do have Rent Allowance, tho').
Since I moved, I can now have a completely ordinary and content life without sleepless nights, drunken 24-hour long parties next door, or worrying if the whole ****ing place is going to be burned down.
Life is too short, OP,. No-one should have to tolerate the stress and fear associated with living like you currently are. Best wishes with whatever you decide to do. I really do mean that.

HooterSnout

Deliverance wrote: »

I have some audio files to this effect. Plus I imagine I could get payment and non payment details from the recycling company to back this up if needed

I don't know what good an audio recording of bottles smashing would do to be honest. Plus rummaging through a bin full of broken glass to get a few beer soaked receipts isn't worth it in my view.

It might be easy for people to say to just move, but often it's not as simple as that. Not withstanding the fact of why should you be the one to move. Round up some people, I'm certain you are not alone. no one likes neighbors who are disrespectful. I'm not generally one to condone violence but sometimes that's what it boils down to.

mikemac

Deliverance wrote: »

I photographed exposed payslips in the rubbish that have their name, previous address, current address etc.

You mean they have jobs?
That's what surprised me from your post, not the behaviour

pro_gnostic_8

HooterSnout wrote: »

Round up some people, I'm certain you are not alone.

Easier said than done!
People are simply too fearful to involve themselves .............. especially if the issue does not impact directly upon them. People incline to keep their heads down -- not wanting to attract undue attention from the lowlife's. If one or two residents are suffering, it's a dead cert that they will suffer on their own. The Gardai can't be on the scene 24/7; the Council can't be arsed, and the decent neighbours are cowed.
In todays soulless Council estates there is not the sense of connection or "we all stand together" psyche that once existed in tightly knit communities. Most everyone in a council flats are counting the days until they are transferred to a house, and until then they pull the curtains and pretend not to see or hear anything disturbing.
Getting out is the easiest option. Make complaints or make a stand, and you will likely have a brick through your window or petrol under your door. That's the sort of scum you are dealing with.

CorkMan

I am sorry for your undue troubles. I have lived with the said type of ethnic minority before, it was not pleasant.

I was located in an apartment complex for 2 years, but the said ethnic minority moved in. Within 2 weeks the stairs in the complex started to turn black from dirt, the first time in 2 years. Also an abundance of cigarette butts. There were over 20 apartments in total, but within a week of the "ethnic minorities" moving in the entire complex was treated to the "mixx at six"

Yet they are not perpretrators, only victims of "discrimination, racism, name calling and finger pointing". Instead of politicians doing nothing, we need some sort of miltary leader who deserves his place, who will serve the people aswell. During communist Czech Republic, the crime levels were very low as the undesirables were immediately dealt with. I am not suggesting communism, just something like that.

Mr Cork Man

Im afraid the law and the system is on the travellers side.They ruin neighbourhoods,they terrorize decent law abiding people,they prey on vulnerable elderly people living in isolated country areas yet we are the racists apparently we are not respecting there culture.All we hear from groups like pavee point is rights and negative sterotyping.Im not a racist person i have friends of many races and people are only judging travellers from there own experiences.It's not being racist it's just calling it the way you see it.Rights,rights,rights what about the rights of decent people to live peacefull lives.

Deliverance

HooterSnout wrote: »

I don't know what good an audio recording of bottles smashing would do to be honest. Plus rummaging through a bin full of broken glass to get a few beer soaked receipts isn't worth it in my view.

It might be easy for people to say to just move, but often it's not as simple as that. Not withstanding the fact of why should you be the one to move. Round up some people, I'm certain you are not alone. no one likes neighbors who are disrespectful. I'm not generally one to condone violence but sometimes that's what it boils down to.

Audio wise the chap was shouting out the name of the resident in question, plus the same chap wrote his name on the walls for all to see it is scrawled in spray paint on the walls.

Plus I didn't disturb any evidence, I left it in place (didn't need to dig for scraps) and photographed the rubbish in situe i.e. a big pile of bags with the names and adresses of said folks open to see.

Anyway, at the end of my day I don't care about what my friendly travellor neighbours think based on my experiences with them, I am trying at the moment to move out based on the antisocial behaviour that they have provided me with to move out of where I live.

Idealistically I would like to stay and do some good for the area. As an educator myself I would like to do that, I don't want my child living in this area. But at the same time as an educator I also think and wonder: am I in a position to recognise the situation and deal with it in a positive way?

Am I wrong or right in this? Strangely I do wonder and I do question myself, and my attitude as being at the ground level so to speak?

Maybe I should be working to make things better in the social sense over just moving out? Or should I just move out and leave them to it;)

I am in a kind of crazy situation whereby I could propose some stuff to the local council to educate and engage folks and their kids. (I work in an innovation centre) and I believe that I could set up something in the long run for all parties i.e. travellor kids / folks to work together.

I suppose in that respect I would like to see and hear the antisocial experiences that people have had and ways to positively alleviate and move forward for the 'settled' community as well as the 'country' folk.

what say you?

shell42970

Deliverance wrote: »

Idealistically I would like to stay and do some good for the area. As an educator myself I would like to do that, I don't want my child living in this area. But at the same time as an educator I also think and wonder: am I in a position to recognise the situation and deal with it in a positive way?

Am I wrong or right in this?

I can empathize with your attitude, however I believe your responsibility as a parent to provide your child with a safe, clean, and decent environment in which to grow trumps your ideals as an educator in this case, however noble they may be - especially when it appears that you're getting no support from the only people in a position to help address the problem.

I wish my own neighborhood had more people with your "let's fix this!" mentality - many voices carry farther, after all. You can't go it alone though, especially when you have a child.

Dudess

Would people REALLY call you racist etc just because you complain about them acting the sh1t? Your beef is with their behaviour, not the fact they are travellers. There's always "You'll get called" racist stuff pre-empted - and what "the" do-gooders will say (yet they tend not to say it - nobody in their right mind would defend this kind of behaviour). It's totally reasonable of you to get angry about this - why bring in the fact they are travellers at all? The crap you're experiencing could be done by those who aren't travellers also.

Graces7

Resonating here, yet with a minor version of this. We rented a cottage way out in the country; not realising that the barn opposite was owned by a traveller family who used it to abuse horses.. and they let a goat etc roam free on the road etc etc etc.

Not realising what we were up against, we tried to get help re the horse etc; they lived a mile down the road so did not hear the screaming and kicking all night long.

The man was .. words fail. Suffice it to say that one day he threatened assault; not knowing the phone line was open to the Gardai. Thereafter we lived with a special Garda number to call and the hostilities were .. muted... Then we got an illegal eviction notice from the landlord, who was a neighbour of the man.

The lies he told were amazing.. seems to be part of the way of life?

We left. While it is doubtless honourable to try to change and "educate" your own safety is paramount and all the more so when you have children. The only regret is that we did not leave sooner.

It is a different culture. This man was teaching his kids to behave as he was behaving. Our life was made hell there. Life is too short to waste time on battles that cannot be "won".. because they are not perceived as battles by those acting against us. Culture clash is just that.

professore

I want to make two points about this -

1. There are some traveller families that do not cause trouble, I have seen one near the estate where we live, the kids were well behaved and never used bad language, except for the local settled kids calling them f**king knackers etc.

2. There was another traveller family that were nothing but trouble similar to the family you mentioned. They even ran a scrap business from their front garden !

Really it all boils down to people having responsibilities if they get council housing and kicking them out if they don't follow the rules, travellers or not.

Max001

Hate to say it, but it strikes me that too many people here, Travellers or not, are too concerned with their perceived rights and don't give enough thought to their responsibilities towards others. Maybe its not just happening in Ireland, but I travel a lot around Europe and I see it most here. Sometimes Ireland is a thoroughly unpleasant place to live. Mostly though, it isn't. I feel a lots been lost, perhaps forever.

Deliverance

professore wrote: »

I want to make two points about this -

1. There are some traveller families that do not cause trouble, I have seen one near the estate where we live, the kids were well behaved and never used bad language, except for the local settled kids calling them f**king knackers etc.

2. There was another traveller family that were nothing but trouble similar to the family you mentioned. They even ran a scrap business from their front garden !

Really it all boils down to people having responsibilities if they get council housing and kicking them out if they don't follow the rules, travellers or not.

Herein lies the difference and there is a difference. The difference is about who and what part of this subculture is actually about. the minority status is a genuine issue that is working.

However this system is open to abuse and it is being done.

I consider a part of the 'culture' as being in need as those that have not have had access to education, have poor literacy skills and possibly are in a situation whereby they do need support from the community which they might want to partake in.

However some members of this 'community' choose to abuse the system grabbing what they can when they can. What minority in the sense of a minority drives saloon cars and jeeps on a day to day basis and spends extraordinary amounts of cash on events where the cash is laundered outside the tax system?

Whilst at the same time being considered a 'minority', I'm sure that my Saloon driving, jeep driving neighbours which have the potential cost combined buy a house. Yet they live in council housing that they were given due to status.

that are freeloading off the state in many, many ways and the do it because some of them can.

Is it not time to re-address the culture that exists within this culture and start looking at folks that are in general housing needs i.e. those that have families, those that have worked hard all their lives with families?

a minority is a minority at the end of the day. Travellors have had their day, they had their chance, I live next to the consequence of a system that allows them to have it easy.

Isn't it about time for the system in these hard economic times to give preference to hard working folks that have lost their houses to start again over untraceable tax types who choose to live outside the system?

My neighbours are wealthy, antisocial, they took the system for what it is worth, that is what they are.

Why not re-adress this system, identify the un-minorities as abusers of said system and take it away from them and give it to the people that are really in need i.e. the average Irish person worker that needs it and genuinely will work to make things better.

The bottom line to me is: A family that drives into my estate with the combined wealth of a small mansion is not a minority. The real minority is those people that didn't get social housing because these other folks were put first due to their 'cultural' 'minority' status in this case.

I work hard, I work all the time, I cant afford a jeep, I can't afford much anything outside what I pay for my kids education and time. I deserve social housing, it gave me a chance to take jobs to pay the great affordable rent.

False minority people driving in and taking the piss out of the system is hard to see. Something should be done about this. I suggest a re-address of the minority status that exists is something that should be looked at.