New Boeing 747-8 Launch

Bearcat

it's hard to fathom that the original aircraft was originally designed in the 60's......today in 2011 she still looks like the queen of the skies, where as the A380 looks like an ugly pig imho.

Almaviva

What is the role of the 747 these days?
Have many sold in recent years for passenger duties? The 777 and A330/A340 seem to dominate a lot of routes that would have been 747 territory in the past. Why (to my very limited aviation knowledge) is the 747 being eclipsed by those aircraft ?

pclancy

Yeah you're right i've wondered the same. I fly a lot of long haul due to living on the bottom of the planet and in the last few years many airlines seem to have reduced their 747 fleets. Some have become quite shabby as airlines wait for their new A380s. I find the 777 much more spacious inside then a 747. I guess its down to economics, the cost per seat of running a 4 engined aircraft must be higher. I wonder does the 747 still have the best frieght capacity which makes up for other factors.

Tenger

pclancy wrote: »

Yeah you're right i've wondered the same. I fly a lot of long haul due to living on the bottom of the planet and in the last few years many airlines seem to have reduced their 747 fleets. Some have become quite shabby as airlines wait for their new A380s. I find the 777 much more spacious inside then a 747. I guess its down to economics, the cost per seat of running a 4 engined aircraft must be higher. I wonder does the 747 still have the best frieght capacity which makes up for other factors.

Well straight away with 4 engines you have double the upkeep over a twin.
Modern twins have range/power almost equal to quads like the B747. The old Virgin Atlantic slogan of "4 engines 4 longhaul" rings a bit hollow these days.

I think the A340 has actually stopped being produced, Airbus can still make more but orders have stopped. (The same production line makes A330/A340) The A340 was designed as a long range variant of the A330. Modern A330's have improved range and the B772 (I believe) outperforms the A340. Both of these have impacted A340 sales.

ETOPS was another reason to favour quads but ETOPS has been extended quite a bit over time so the impact is less than it was when the B767/A300 first operated over the North Atlantic.



In the case of the B747-8i, Boeing have brought out a new version of an old design that doesn't offer a lot more than an existing Boeing design. I read on Airliners.net that the B773 offers a similar range to the B747-8i with only 40-50 less seats. Anyone who wants more seats that the B773 may as well go for the A380. BA are the largest operator of the B744, they have decided to replace their fleet (approx 50 units) with a mix of B773 and A380.

I think the upgrade to partially a pride thing. The B747 is such an iconic aircraft, it would be a PR disappointment for Boeing to end the design. In addition Boeing had to offer an upgrade of the B744 to stop all Airbus taking customers from them. Boeing claimed the market for aircraft larger than the B744 was not viable, they had to make an offering that cut into the Airbus target market.

pclancy

I wonder what is Boeings motive for pouring money into the 748 when one of their own products (777) is better suitedfor most airlines needs? Seems like a strange business case to reengineer and redevelop an old uneconomical airframe.

lord lucan

First 748 in customer colours pictured below. Due to enter service with LH early next year.

Tenger

And here is the cargo version:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/microvolt/6108397042/in/photostream/

L1011

pclancy wrote: »

I wonder what is Boeings motive for pouring money into the 748 when one of their own products (777) is better suitedfor most airlines needs? Seems like a strange business case to reengineer and redevelop an old uneconomical airframe.

Pride is a surreal thing.

Turbulent Bill

pclancy wrote: »

I wonder what is Boeings motive for pouring money into the 748 when one of their own products (777) is better suitedfor most airlines needs? Seems like a strange business case to reengineer and redevelop an old uneconomical airframe.

I think the aviation industry is getting like the car industry, with more diversification and niche products. Companies like BMW probably have twice as many model types as a decade ago, many built on common platforms.

Boeing could put a minimal engineering effort (relatively speaking) into the 748, pitch it as an easy transition for existing 744 customers and still get some niche sales.

I don't think sentiment comes into it - Boeing would can the Jumbo if it wasn't making money.

donkey balls

My aul crowd use to operate one of the biggest fleets of B747F we then changed to DC10/MD11 as they are more fuel effiecent although we lost six main positions using the Douglas,The company has started to buy B777F to replace the MD11 eventually on the long haul routes we were also the launch customer for the A380F but due to the set backs with production the company withdrew the order from Airbus and has a option for some A330F to replace the A300F.

Fishtits

lord lucan wrote: »

First 748 in customer colours pictured below. Due to enter service with LH early next year.

I don't think that's a 748.

I'm not involved in the industry anymore so I don't follow this in any detail but I had the notion from various conversations/e-mails etc that the 748 had only found freight buyers?

Edited to add, I've just run a search of the reg of the pictured a/c, its a 744.

lord lucan

AFAIK they've given it the reg of LH's first 744,hence why it shows up as a 744.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

cuterob

of course it's the 748..look at the feckin length of it!

Zonda999

http://www.airlinereporter.com/tag/boeing-747-8/

Thought this was nice to see, well the pictures of it were anyway!:)


Some size of a jet!


plenty more pictures of it here

Bearcat

Beautiful, they need to sort the trim tank re flutter

ohigg84

Shes beautiful! Is she longer than a 777-300 now?

Delancey

I'm very surprised it doesn't have ' winglets ' fitted ?

cuterob

ohigg84 wrote: »

Shes beautiful! Is she longer than a 777-300 now?

i think the 744 always was longer than the 773? I could be wrong but it is longer now than the a346 which held the honour of being the longest commercial jet

Delancey wrote: »

I'm very surprised it doesn't have ' winglets ' fitted ?

I think the wings are new raked wings which don't need winglets

Turbine

Delancey wrote: »

I'm very surprised it doesn't have ' winglets ' fitted ?

It has raked wingtips like the 777, which have the same effect as winglets. I think the reason winglets are used on some aircraft is because achieving the performance benefits using raked wingtips can mean having to extend the wing span to a point where the bending forces become too great. Winglets have a third of the bending force of a raked wingtip, so at that point it makes sense just to use winglets.

ohigg84

cuterob wrote: »

i think the 744 always was longer than the 773? I could be wrong but it is longer now than the a346 which held the honour of being the longest commercial jet



I think the wings are new raked wings which don't need winglets

The 744 is actually shorter than the 773, its length is 70.66m compared to the 773 which is 73.86m.