Changes for Scotland vs Ireland

twinytwo

Quint2010 wrote: »

Bowe for D'Arcy. Bowe can either play inside (crash) centre or move BOD to inside and play Bowe at 13. Why not?

cause an idea like that would blow kidneys mind....

Magic Eight Ball

What's the story with Flannery lads? Injured or another fecking ban?

Magic Eight Ball

Magic Eight Ball wrote: »

What's the story with Flannery lads? Injured or another fecking ban?

sicknote

GerM

Real shame to think Flannery turns 33 this year and somehow only has 24 international starts to his name since 2005 and only 69 starts for Munster since 2003. Come the end of the 6N that will be over 60 internationals that have passed since his debut. About 65 if we include the Lions tests he missed. Granted, he missed a chunk of games due to his own stupidity but he has gone through a ridiculous run of injuries, particularly since the 2009 6N. Hopefully he gets it together though because we really do need someone that can hit the tail of the line out badly.

toomevara

Ansbro, Southwell and Lamont all out for the luckless Scots...life just got a whole lot easier for us. About the only Scots who've impressed this year.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/scottish/9403622.stm

Quint2010

GerM wrote: »

Real shame to think Flannery turns 33 this year and somehow only has 24 international starts to his name since 2005 and only 69 starts for Munster since 2003. Come the end of the 6N that will be over 60 internationals that have passed since his debut. About 65 if we include the Lions tests he missed. Granted, he missed a chunk of games due to his own stupidity but he has gone through a ridiculous run of injuries, particularly since the 2009 6N. Hopefully he gets it together though because we really do need someone that can hit the tail of the line out badly.

Thought we had that already with Rory Best and Sean Cronin..:D

durkadurka

Quint2010 wrote: »

Thought we had that already with Rory Best and Sean Cronin..:D

Split infinitive?? Brilliant!!!!

totallegend

Quint2010 wrote: »

Bowe for D'Arcy. Bowe can either play inside (crash) centre or move BOD to inside and play Bowe at 13. Why not?

Because that means moving your best winger to the centre and moving your best 13 to 12, why? Would seem to be a better bet to keep Bowe on the wing, leave BOD at 13 and either bring on Wallace or move McFadden/Earls to 12.

I reckon Kidney will stick with D'Arcy though.

stephen_n

totallegend wrote: »

Because that means moving your best winger to the centre and moving your best 13 to 12, why? Would seem to be a better bet to keep Bowe on the wing, leave BOD at 13 and either bring on Wallace or move McFadden/Earls to 12.

I reckon Kidney will stick with D'Arcy though.

It would also mean creating an attacking threat in the centre that we are currently lacking. BOD no longer has the out and out pace of a 13, he is still a class act and makes up for it in other ways but to all intents and purposes now plays more like a 12, putting someone with Bowes pace and vision at 13 beside him could create a lot of attacking opportunities which Trimble McFadden or Earls could benefit from. It's not going to happen as we are far too conservative to ever think outside the box but it is most definitely a good option, especially with Darcy not playing well!

athtrasna

Ah lads...are you trying to depress me even more. No Stringer in the squad and now talk of keeping D'Arcy in the XV :eek:

It's bad enough realising that the tickets that cost £45 in Murrayfield 4 years ago are now selling at £75, I came across my old tickets looking for my old ref link. Can't find the 2009 tix though.

tolosenc

Sexypants just facebooked "BOOM", whatever that may mean.

And srsly, no Strings?

Quint2010

France have just made six changes from the side that beat Ireland for the game against England.

I wonder how many Deccie will make from a losing side? One?

twinytwo

stephen_n wrote: »

It would also mean creating an attacking threat in the centre that we are currently lacking. BOD no longer has the out and out pace of a 13, he is still a class act and makes up for it in other ways but to all intents and purposes now plays more like a 12, putting someone with Bowes pace and vision at 13 beside him could create a lot of attacking opportunities which Trimble McFadden or Earls could benefit from. It's not going to happen as we are far too conservative to ever think outside the box but it is most definitely a good option, especially with Darcy not playing well!

plus when you play drico at 12 it will create more room for bowe cause they will need at least 2 guys to cover him... then again if he had a hard running 12 to play off like roberts he can still cut teams to pieces. During the lions tests the saffers maked him with 2 guys everytime he got the ball.. lot of good it did them though:pac:

twinytwo

Quint2010 wrote: »

France have just made six changes from the side that beat Ireland for the game against England.

I wonder how many Deccie will make from a losing side? One?

15-Maxime Medard, 14-Yoann Huget, 13-Aurelien Rougerie, 12-Yannick Jauzion, 11-Vincent Clerc, 10-Francois Trinh-Duc, 9-Dimitri Yachvili, 8-Sebastien Chabal, 7-Imanol Harinordoquy, 6-Thierry Dusautoir (captain), 5-Lionel Nallet, 4-Julien Pierre, 3-Nicolas Mas, 2-William Servat, 1-Thomas Domingo




Replacements: 16-Guilhem Guirado, 17-Sylvain Marconnet, 18-Jerome Thion, 19-Julien Bonnaire, 20-Morgan Parra, 21-Damien Traille, 22-Clement Poitrenaud

little173

Quint2010 wrote: »

Bowe for D'Arcy. Bowe can either play inside (crash) centre or move BOD to inside and play Bowe at 13. Why not?

So you now want to move Bowe to inside centre, a position he has rarely if ever played in, genius!

I wont even debate moving BOD at all, its a total non starter, will never happen, I dont think it will work in any shape or form.

little173

Quint2010 wrote: »

France have just made six changes from the side that beat Ireland for the game against England.

I wonder how many Deccie will make from a losing side? One?

When you have the vast number of players that France do, you can probably do that, Ireland do not have the same luxury.

Quint2010

little173 wrote: »

So you now want to move Bowe to inside centre, a position he has rarely if ever played in, genius!

I wont even debate moving BOD at all, its a total non starter, will never happen, I dont think it will work in any shape or form.

Bowe has played there this season for the Ospreys. Just coming up with options-Darcy has made too many individual errors in the two matches for us to consider not selecting him. I think BOD at 12 and Bowe at 13 is an option. Altho I think Bowe playing at 14 last weekend gives us an indication of where he will be picked tomorrow.

little173

Quint2010 wrote: »

Bowe has played there this season for the Ospreys. Just coming up with options-Darcy has made too many individual errors in the two matches for us to consider not selecting him. I think BOD at 12 and Bowe at 13 is an option. Altho I think Bowe playing at 14 last weekend gives us an indication of where he will be picked tomorrow.

I understand the thing about Darce, Bowe has played 13 this season not 12. I just dont think moving BOD at all is wise, he underpins the defence, he is still crucial to the team, unless a guy comes along who can claim to be playing better than him long term then he stays. Looking at 12 options I can see, be that McFadden, Downey etc, but Bowe is really an outside back, his pace would be wasted at 12 where he would get far less space, and am not convinced his distribution is the best, which is why he has made a career of being one of the best wingers in the business - no coincidence.

The Rooster

little173 wrote: »

So you now want to move Bowe to inside centre, a position he has rarely if ever played in, genius!

I wont even debate moving BOD at all, its a total non starter, will never happen, I dont think it will work in any shape or form.

Tommy Bowe is a top class full time professional rugby player. He could play 12 absolutely no bother and would do a damn good job there, though I agree he'd be better on the wing. Dric has played 12 many times, its just that he always wears 13.

Personally I'd have McFadden 12, and Bowe at 14, and Darce on the bench.

athtrasna

Quint2010 wrote: »

Just coming up with options-Darcy has made too many individual errors in the two matches for us to consider not selecting him.

It's Declan Kidney we're talking about here. D'Arcy and Box Kick O'Leary will both make at least the 22 if not the XV. Errors don't rule you out, amazing provincial performances do in Kidney land.

Quint2010

athtrasna wrote: »

It's Declan Kidney we're talking about here. D'Arcy and Box Kick O'Leary will both make at least the 22 if not the XV. Errors don't rule you out, amazing provincial performances do in Kidney land.

I agree with you. Would love to see us make some changes to freshen things up-lets use the squad. Bowe at centre, Trimble on the wing, ROG and Reddan at half back, Cullen at second row, Ruddock at 6. This would not weaken our team at all.

tolosenc

little173 wrote: »

When you have the vast number of players that France do, you can probably do that, Ireland do not have the same luxury.

Yeah we do. Certainly enough to make 6 changes.

athtrasna wrote: »

It's Declan Kidney we're talking about here. D'Arcy and Box Kick O'Leary will both make at least the 22 if not the XV. Errors don't rule you out, amazing provincial performances do in Kidney land.

O'Leary isn't even playing provincially, let alone well. His continued selection is beyond belief...

I see this as a perfect opportunity to start ROG, let him control the game to 55mins by strangling Scotland and knocking them back to the corners, and then on 55/60 make 3/4 pacy changes, out half, back row, back 3 players, kick the game up a notch and blow them over.

However, this is what would work, but not what I would like to see. Against Scotland and Italy type opposition in WC scenarios or second last weeken of 6N with us still gunning do a grand slam maybe, but now we have to stick to what we've been trying to do which is keep the ball alive, keep the game moving, and continual pressure should yield points. It's starting to click, but we're still not where we need to be.

Brenireland

When does Ireland announce their team?

Cheers in advance.

thomond2006

Brenireland wrote: »

When does Ireland announce their team?

Cheers in advance.

Tommorrow lunchtime afaik.

athtrasna

1.15 tomorrow

athtrasna

HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/22338.php STRINGER ADDED TO THE SQUAD!!

I know I'm shouting but this is progress! Only a temporary call up, until the medics are happy about Box Kick's back but hopefully this time Kidney will realise that even at 100% fitness, box kick is the slowest scrum half under 90 in this country :P

little173

tolosenc wrote: »

Yeah we do. Certainly enough to make 6 changes.

No we dont!, Do I really need to trawl the internet to produce the number of french qualified players vs Irish qualified players?, its quite a difference.

little173

little173 wrote: »

No we dont!, Do I really need to trawl the internet to produce the number of french qualified players vs Irish qualified players?, its quite a difference.

Do you not think that we have 28 players capable of playing international rugby? I think he was saying that we have depth enough for changes, not that we have depth to match france's.

little173

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you not think that we have 28 players capable of playing international rugby? I think he was saying that we have depth enough for changes, not that we have depth to match france's.

Accepted. I probably dont think we do no, we have to manage a small group of players, when we are missing one of our strong 1XV players, it affects us badly, and I dont think the strength is there. The success that Ireland has acheived in recent years is built on this principal so its hard to argue against it. Introducing the odd guy with the strong players is fine but wholesale changes, like 40% of the team is not a good strategy for Ireland. You can get away with it with France because they have guys who play regularly in the Top 14 and they have a massive pool of players.

Podge_irl

To be honest, I don't see how making wholesale changes is expected to improve the fluidity and general handling of the team.

twinytwo

little173 wrote: »

Accepted. I probably dont think we do no, we have to manage a small group of players, when we are missing one of our strong 1XV players, it affects us badly, and I dont think the strength is there. The success that Ireland has acheived in recent years is built on this principal so its hard to argue against it. Introducing the odd guy with the strong players is fine but wholesale changes, like 40% of the team is not a good strategy for Ireland. You can get away with it with France because they have guys who play regularly in the Top 14 and they have a massive pool of players.

if we lose flans as is the current situation we are ****ed
we lose ross we are ****ed
we lose either poc or doc we have leo etc
backrow is okish
sh-- meh
we lose either sexton or o gara we are ****ed
we lose drico we are ****ed.....

now what happens if say we have to play with drico,o gara , ross

thebaz

O'leary must get the axe, but probably won't - reddan

D'Arcy will probably get another chance, but his form has dipped , and maybe a rest would do him and his confidence good

as an aside, I wouldn't mind O'Malley getting a bit of game time, people may call this crazy

tolosenc

6 players we could bring in:

Cronin
Cullen
Ruddock
Reddan
O'Gara
Bowe

Others include: Ryan, Court, P.Wallace, Jennings... Add to that those on the injured list...

To say we don't have the depth to make 6 changes is absurd.

conno16

with tommy bowe back in the team at full-back we'll be a far more organised attacking outfit

stick fitzy back on the wing

also bring cullen in for that muppet o'callaghan

TheHighRoad

twinytwo wrote: »

now what happens if say we have to play with drico,o gara , ross

We don't play with O'Gara anyway. He wouldn't be even close to losing someone like O'Driscoll and I would him very far down on the list of our most important players to lose to be honest. I'd argue the only irreplacable player on our team as it is currently is O'Driscoll. We could cope with losing anyone else. Maybe Ross as well considering he is the only PROVEN tighthead in the country that can stabilize our scrum.

conno16

conno16 wrote: »

with tommy bowe back in the team at full-back we'll be a far more organised attacking outfit

stick fitzy back on the wing

also bring cullen in for that muppet o'callaghan

no
no
no

Bowe goes 14, McFadden takes Wallace's bench spot
Cullen stays on the bench as DOC has repaid Kidney's faith and shown up in the last two games. Cullen needs to make a meaningful appearance though, 6 seconds was a joke.

I actually wouldn't even mind if the teamsheet didn't change and Kidney used the bench. I'd prefer it to this 18man squad thing we have going on anyway.

TOL has to make way though.

TheHighRoad

Sorry for double post. I'm currently opting for something like this against Scotland ......1.Healy 2.Cronin 3.Ross 4.O'Connell 5.Cullen 6.O'Brien 7.Jennings 8.Heaslip 9.Reddan 10.Sexton 11.Trimble 12.McFadden 13.O'Driscoll 14.Bowe 15.Fitzgerald .................Cronin, Cullen and Jennings to get a chance to stake their claim and Trimble in ahead of Earls who has been poor and McFadden at 12 instead of D'arcy who has been diabolical.

Ooops, forgot Trimble was back, he's in for D'Arcy in my team.

smurphy29

After saturday it's hard to put too compelling a case together for Cullen starting. DOC has his flaws - I've been a harsh critic myself - but you would have to say that he has justified his selection so far. He's some way out in front in the tackle count, for example (see Sunday Times last weekend).

I think it's pretty much nailed on that the pack will stay the same. It will be interesting to see if Buckley makes it on to the bench, but I can't see any change in the starters.

All the intrigue is in the backs, and there's a few calls that could go either way. Bowe will start, probably at the expense of McFadden, who should take his place on the bench at least, given his versatility. I've a nasty feeling that might be your lot.

What I'd like to see is Reddan or Stringer come in, and McFadden given a shot at centre, his natural position. I'd like to see Jonny given a shot alongside a proper 9, but he hsa to produce the goods this time. Trimble should come into the reckoning too, in some capacity.

padser

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Sorry for double post. I'm currently opting for something like this against Scotland ......1.Healy 2.Cronin 3.Ross 4.O'Connell 5.Cullen 6.O'Brien 7.Jennings 8.Heaslip 9.Reddan 10.Sexton 11.Trimble 12.McFadden 13.O'Driscoll 14.Bowe 15.Fitzgerald .................Cronin, Cullen and Jennings to get a chance to stake their claim and Trimble in ahead of Earls who has been poor and McFadden at 12 instead of D'arcy who has been diabolical.

So you want to change 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, 12 and 14.

I generally find the standard of posting on boards is quite high in the rugby forum - but you do also get ridiculus stuff every so often.

You can't afford to change half the team. If you really thinking changing half the team would improve Irelands performance, you really don't know much about rugby.

totallegend

padser wrote: »

So you want to change 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, 12 and 14.

I generally find the standard of posting on boards is quite high in the rugby forum - but you do also get ridiculus stuff every so often.

You can't afford to change half the team. If you really thinking changing half the team would improve Irelands performance, you really don't know much about rugby.

Ah jaysus he's entitled to his opinion, and none of the individual changes he has made would weaken the team:

Cronin for Best
Cullen for O'Callaghan
Jennings for Wallace
Reddan for O'Leary
Trimble for Earls
Bowe for D'Arcy

The only one of those that weakens the team is possibly Jennings for Wallace, but you could argue that it gives you a better balance, plus Jennings is an excellent link-man in terms of getting fast ball to the backs.

So if we're playing pants (and we are) but have players of roughly equivalent quality waiting to get into the team, why not?

TheHighRoad

padser wrote: »

So you want to change 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, 12 and 14.

I generally find the standard of posting on boards is quite high in the rugby forum - but you do also get ridiculus stuff every so often.

You can't afford to change half the team. If you really thinking changing half the team would improve Irelands performance, you really don't know much about rugby.

I find it utterly ridiculous that people want to play the same team over and over again in a world cup year. Now that we're out of the running for both a grand slam and a championship win (points tally against Italy will rule us out) I personally don't see any point in not experimenting and seeing if we can find a better balance. I personally feel for instance that Jennings would compliment the backrow in terms of balance, I feel Reddan is simply a better scrumhalf, I'd like to know how Cullen and POC play together, and to see whether Cronin can be relied upon ahead of Best considering what he can offer in the loose. We need to find a viable option at 12 for when D'arcy performs poorly (like now) considering no one is confident of Wallace slotting in against the likes of the all blacks, Bowe needs to get familar with the international set up in a world cup year as soon as possible and ditto for Trimble. France have won their last 2 games and have made 8 changes btw and they always seem to pull it out for the world cup. If you're content with the current Irish team and don't even want to experiment a little then thats fine, but if you think the current team is capable of competing in the SF of a world cup then clearly it is you who knows little about rugby. There is definite room for improvement and im willing to experiment in a meaningless 6N game in a World Cup year.

phog

TheHighRoad wrote: »

........and im willing to experiment in a meaningless 6N game in a World Cup year.

Meaningless? Don't think so, the 6Ns is our bread and butter. Even taking your view that it is meaningless I'd doubt it would be remembered that Kidney choose to try a different group of players if we lose as you'll have guys calling for head head because we've lost a number of games.

TheHighRoad

phog wrote: »

Meaningless? Don't think so, the 6Ns is our bread and butter. Even taking your view that it is meaningless I'd doubt it would be remembered that Kidney choose to try a different group of players if we lose as you'll have guys calling for head head because we've lost a number of games.

Its meaningless now that were not in the running. Unless you want to apply a win at all costs mentality to ensure a triple crown rather than experimenting to improve with a potential semi final in a world cup year? If Kidney is afraid to take a chance because of what others think then he shouldn't be a professional coach to be honest.

People need to lift their eyes up ahead of the next weekend, or the following or so on.

This is a WC year, what is our primary goal?

Winning a GS might've been a secondary goal, but that's gone now.

Now its time to focus on that primary goal even stronger. Getting the team playing good rugby with confidence is the main thing that we need to be doing right now. I think Kidney's doing a decent job at this tbh, we are getting better, lets hope that we continue on Sunday!

phog

TheHighRoad wrote: »

Its meaningless now that were not in the running. Unless you want to apply a win at all costs mentality to ensure a triple crown rather than experimenting to improve with a potential semi final in a world cup year? If Kidney is afraid to take a chance because of what others think then he shouldn't be a professional coach to be honest.

I doubt Kidney reads this forum tbh but I also know tjhat some posters here will use any loss to throw dirt in his direction regardless if the aim was squad building.

I still think the 6Ns is the bread and butter competition for the IRFU and all games should be treated with the respect they deserve.

danthefan

phog wrote: »

I doubt Kidney reads this forum tbh but I also know tjhat some posters here will use any loss to throw dirt in his direction regardless if the aim was squad building.

I still think the 6Ns is the bread and butter competition for the IRFU and all games should be treated with the respect they deserve.

What utter tosh. The team named below is a 1-15 of internationals, suggesting it's somehow not respectful of the competition is nonsense.

athtrasna

Only changes in the XV I would make would be Stringer (I can dream) in at 9 and Bowe in for McFadden. Kidney won't make the first change...though there's a better chance of the second.

Would love to see someone else in at 12, but not Wallace.

KidneyPunch

I think Kidney should start with Earls at 15 to give him more impact in the game, he looked frustrated against France. Fitzgerald would preform equally well at wing. Keep Trimble on the bench, Jennings should link up with Sean O Brian and Heaslip better then Wallace does..
Reddan to start but i like O Leary and i think Kidney was right to start him against Fance. other then that whatever about the Doc or Cullen argument Leo deserves more time off the bench and Kidneys use of the bench has been shocking to say the least..
Bowe at wing and i agree with Mcfadden at 12. I dont care about who wins this six nations we need to build the best possible squad and take on the likes of Australia with every combination in mind.
Also Scotland have loads of injurys so now is the time to experiment..