General Election 2011

Sparks

We're going to start a sticky thread here to try to keep things a bit tidy. Please folks, keep it serious for this thread, a nice high signal-to-noise ratio would be good. I'll copy in some of the other posts we've had on this topic so far shortly.

meathshooter1

without getting into economics,what party would benefit our sport.we have seen FF decimate centrefire pistols and senior gardai unfairly treat myself and fellow shooters in my opinion.with a general election on the way what can our sport expect from a almost certain new goverment.I know there are more pressing issues on there minds.but our national govering bodies should not miss the oppertunity to find out what there policys are on these issues.

Cass

SpringerF wrote: »

This is the shooting forum and not the political forum so I should desist from further comment.

On that note political discussion is NOT prohibited on the main shooting forum. You are free to discuss it once it relates to shooting and shooting/hunting related topics. If it devolves into a fullblown political debate on party policies, budget, IMF, etc basically any non-shooting related topics it will be moved to the political forum.

---

There will be no party that will be the safe option. Was it not Labour that opposed the stag hunting ban/bill then it passed and when asked recently Eamon Gilmore stated he would not try to reverse or lessen the Act if Labour got into Government.

No party will appease the shooters of this country by going against the overwhelming public dislike of firearms/hunting and all the aspects attached to these endeavours. They will promise the earth moon and stars, but as we all know will not hold true to their word once in power.

I would not condone not voting, its a waste, but consider your options carefully, research each party, send e-mails, talk to those canvassing. Then make your decision.

johngalway

You all know what politicians are like, some my bit of advice is don't ask them or their cronies leading questions like...

"I like my hunting, what's your stance on it?"

Instead ask more vague questions which don't give away your own interest in the subject. Then watch them squirm - or completely avoid the question.

You're in the lead position when you know what they think. They're in the lead position when you tell them what you think.

Sparks

Thing is, no matter how adamant they are that they'll fix stuff when they're on your doorstep, there is no provision in the Irish Constitution to hold them to their word even if they were capable of delivering on it (which they're not).
So basicly, I wouldn't waste your time wondering if they'll keep their election promises.
Just please, whatever you do, don't vote for a local TD because you think he/she does a good job. They don't, no matter how hard they work. They just make up numbers in the Dail for the most part, and the whip ensures they vote with party policy regardless of personal opinion.

As to what party, I don't think it matters nearly as much as ensuring that the next government is not a single-party government either literally or effectively (as FF has been for the last two turns).
Coalitions tend to listen more; single-party governments tend to just do whatever they want and shove stuff through the Dail, which is how we got railroaded twice in five years.

Besides, the IMF are in at this point. Unless we default (anyone else think that Vincent Browne was the scariest thing on telly in a decade?), it won't matter who's in government, they'll all be bound by the IMF to cut funding all over the shop, and hike prices. The four-year plan FF just walked out will already cut €50 million out of the sports budget and hike VAT by 2% by 2014 which will drive up the cost of everything we do in this sport, and if the licence fee isn't hiked as well, I'd be surprised. Plus, they're dropping 1,500 Gardai and another 2,000 in Justice so we're not going to see our efficency numbers get better.

Bananaman

I think seeking a review of the aspects of the criminal justice bill that penalize target shooters - such as the 'alleged' ban on IPSC and the ban on future licensing of Restricted pistols -thus ruining Irelands chances of hosting some prestigous sporting events and in essence discriminating against people who wish to get involved in the sport - is something we could all ask for

god knows the bill is an utter failure as a 'criminal justice' bill

if enough of them hear it - it may gain some traction

we just have to hope we don't end up with another political agenda vehicle like the FCP


B'Man

Sparks

Thing is, TDs won't deliver legislation. They don't write it, they just vote on it. Only the Minister can direct that the legislation be written as a Bill, but even he/she doesn't draft that legislation. The people who do are the civil servants in the Department of Justice (in this case). So what's needed here is (a) an excellent working relationship with the civil servants, and (b) a mandate from the Minister.

we just have to hope we don't end up with another political agenda vehicle like the FCP

How do you think we got (a) above?
The FCP is one of the best things we've gotten in shooting in the last forty years. It's just not what shouty folk want it to be (ie. it's not a body controlled by us which can veto the Oireachtas - but guess what, that's not physically possible because of that pesky Irish Constitution).
A bit of realism is needed here B'man.

rrpc

Just tell the Government parties (if and when they come to your door) that you're voting against them for what they did to the shooting and rural sports. Tell all the others the same thing.

Then there'll be no doubt in their minds as to what'll happen if they follow the same path.

bunny shooter

I'm pissed off over how I have and am being treated and I am going to have my say when they come for votes and I don't care if they don't like it :mad:

rrpc

The damage was already done two elections ago, so bemoaning the state of the country now is more than seven years too late.

It was patently evident in 2002 that they had no interest in running the country properly and were just using our money to keep themselves in power.

And the same whinge about there being nothing better to replace them with was trotted out at that time too.

Of all the excuses I've heard for returning a corrupt and spineless government to power, that one takes the biscuit.

IceMaiden

What the opposition are up to ,

Parliamentary Questions and Answers
http://www.banbloodsports.com/pqs.htm

What are your politicians saying about bloodfield sports
http://www.banbloodsports.com/views.htm


What is RISE up to !
Rural Ireland Says Enough!
http://risecampaign1.wordpress.com/

Sparks

Well, speaking for myself, I'd vote Labour. I don't necessarily agree with everything they do, but the choice is FG or Labour. And while FG said they were pro-shooting, and were polite to our reps when they went to talk to them, they didn't reign in Olivia Mitchell or John Deasy when they went off on shooters despite Enda telling us that they were going against FG policy.

Contrasting that with Labour, where the last time legislation was going through the Dail, Howlin was quite happy to stand up and argue our points and did so as effectively as was possible at the time.


Mind you, I'm pretty sure that other folk will be thinking of things other than shooting when deciding how they'll vote - things like the job they've lost, the house they're about to lose because they can't afford the mortgage repayments anymore, the tens of thousands they'll own in negative equity when they lose the house, the emigration their kids are looking at or already taking up...

This election's going to be fought on economic policies more than any other point I suspect.

johngalway

I already know which party I'll be voting for, just need to select candidates for preferences. Must email them on a few points tomorrow. For reasons beyond shooting I won't be voting, FF, Labour, SF, Green, or Independent.

vixdname

All I have to say is thank God they're gone - Irish rural pursuits may be under less threat with them gone.:D

cavan shooter

This is a good thing... However as I pointed out to my firends they were a minority party in a coalition Government lead by Fianna a Fail, who at any stage could have said No to the greens, Fact is Fianna Fail politicians were so desperate to remain in power that they would sell their Mothers and wifes.

The Game season is coming to an end, but dont fear their is an open season on canvassers about to open, and by God, its as much fun as beating a bog for snipe and pheasant:;) sharpen your tongues Lads and get ready for some real blood sport....:D

Cass

Its a stunt. They are trying to distance themselves from FF prior to the electon in a hope that people think/believe gormley in his statment that they can no longer work with FF.

The truth is they have gotten what they want. They have shuffled their party members around various positions so that all will receive full minister pension rights, they have inacted some of the most harmful policies with the backing of FF as (i've said before) a deflection process by FF from their own issues, but to mention a few.

I hope we all here and the public in general remember all they have done and not the hype being spoken today or to come over the next weeks.

cavan shooter

Now is the time to put the squeeze on FG to do so Labour has said it wont but I do remmeber Des Crofton in the ISD writing that Fine Gael would. In Politics what was yesterday, was yesterday today is today, so be careful

Also was it Mr Deasy was never our friend and jumped on the populace scare mongering approach so loved of band stand politicians.

Just google his name with firearms after it

mallards

johngalway wrote: »

What programme and time was that please Mallards?

It was on the Breakfast show, some time around 7.20 give or take ten minutes. Here is the link to the show. I won't get a chance until later to find out exactly when it was.
Basically it was an interview with Labours Joan Burton and I'm not sure who the Fine Gael guy was, could have been Leo Varadkar. Whoever it was they are in the same constituancy as Joan Burton and he was getting a bit ratty with her over tax rises when he said they were talking with the greens. Not much was made of it during the interview, but it stood out like a sore thumb to me.

Mallards.

johngalway

Starts around 11 minutes into Part three of the programme. Burton for Labour and Varadkar for Fine Gael.

FG are talking to the Greens in relation to getting the Finance Bill through this week, not in relation to any coalition.

Burton has a dig after the comment above from Varadkar, insinuating the Greens may support FG after the election "but, we don't know".

That's all that happened. Interview moves onto argy bargy about taxation, IMF etc, then moves onto Pat Cox.

FG position, to me reads clearly as getting rid of the Government by mustering votes in a no confidence in the Govt vote in the Dail, in which the Greens would be crucial. Burton for Labour was politicing with her remark, also showed up very weak not knowing her own policies that she was supposed to have written.

knockon

With the election within 4 weeks I expect an amount of candidates calling to my door. I will be raising a few issues and asking some questions in relation to Shooting. What will you be saying to each party? Now I know this can be emotive so lets keep it civil. For instance I'll be asking FG what John Deasy has to say about firearms or will he tow the party line? I'll ask FF why their Justice Minister did what he did and still Gun Crime is up. Greens and hunting ....etc etc.... Sinn Fein etc...

Lots of guys still have to go before the Courts on appeals and JR - what can we do politically?

Sparks

My first question would be:
"What Ministerial seat have you been promised by the leader of your party?".

Because if the candidate isn't going to be a Minister, there's little point in talking to them. Let them know you shoot and that that'll be an issue for you, yes; but any questions you ask of them, the answers won't be worth the time it takes to listen to them. Send information through them back up the party chain to the guy who'll make the decisions, yes. Listen to a flunky who ranks at the same level as the tea-lady, not so much.

What we were thinking of doing here for the election, btw, was collating a set of questions and then forwarding that to each of the party's relevant spokespeople for an official party statement of intent, and invite them to post in here on that. Does that sound of interest to people?

knockon

Sparks wrote: »

My first question would be:
"What Ministerial seat have you been promised by the leader of your party?".

Because if the candidate isn't going to be a Minister, there's little point in talking to them. Let them know you shoot and that that'll be an issue for you, yes; but any questions you ask of them, the answers won't be worth the time it takes to listen to them. Send information through them back up the party chain to the guy who'll make the decisions, yes. Listen to a flunky who ranks at the same level as the tea-lady, not so much.

What we were thinking of doing here for the election, btw, was collating a set of questions and then forwarding that to each of the party's relevant spokespeople for an official party statement of intent, and invite them to post in here on that. Does that sound of interest to people?

Thats exactly what we need. Letting the Parties know that the question is being asked on behalf of thousands would be very effective.

Sparks

In which case let's start the list.

Personally, I'd ask:

• Who will your party's nominee for the role of Minister for Justice be?
• What is your party's official position on private firearms ownership and does your nominee for Minister for Justice support this position?
• What are your party's plans to reform the Firearms Act?
• What are your party's plans to reform the Explosives Act?
• What are your party's plans to reform the Wildlife Act?
• Does your party propose to extend the Firearms Consultation Panel's remit and make it a consultation body on a permanent basis?
• Does your party propose to modify the Restricted Firearms SI to permit private ownership of centerfire pistols?

J.R.

I'll also ask if the licencing fee is to remain the same or to be increased every renewal date to raise much needed revenue.

Grizzly 45

Sparks wrote: »

In which case let's start the list.


Personally, I'd ask:

• Who will your party's nominee for the role of Minister for Justice be? etc,etc

Sounds good to me.:D
Possibly too,is your party planning any further anti firearms ownership legislation?

Would they consider re evaluating a definition of what a "firing range " is in legislation?IOW a specificlly built place run for profit with fixed points and fixtures and fittings.Not the side of a safe embankment on private property where generations have been shooting safly.

A gun is a gun is a gun.On that basis would they consider doing away with the restricted/unrestricted categories and simplify this to simply "good reason" to aquire and liscense.Rather than an extra layer of garda beauracy requiring "an extra super good reason "to own certain types of firearms?

Would they be in favour of serious investigation by the Garda ombudsman and possibly charges being brought against members of on Garda Siochanna of any rank,who "lose" extremly confidential firearms applications with a myriad of personal information of Irish gunowners in the Garda station??After all, all the other busisness of aGarda station doesnt seemingly go amiss as regulary as firearms applications?Tickets,summonses,arrest warrents etc,dont get lost,just FAC applications....Funny that!

Would they be in favour of intorducing legislation that if a gun owner is sucessfull in a DC application.The Super or CSuper is obliged then to issue the FAC with in period of no less than fourteen calender days of the judgement??

Would they be in favour of removing the firearms liscensing system in its entirity from AGS,and it being handled by a competant trained and knowledgeable body of civillian administration and personel,with the legislative power to grant or refuse liscenses?

Cass

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

A gun is a gun is a gun.

This would probably come under Sparks question of "changes to Firearms Act".

On that note i would ask them their position on juniors in the sports. IOW to see air rifles (example) being removed from the firearms category, or at least those under a certain power rating such as 7ft/lb (or higher). This will open up a world of shooting to juniors and do away with ridiculous legislation that restricts and strangles our sports as the average starting age could be much lower, no security measures that juniors cannot afford, etc.

daveob007

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sounds good to me.:D
Possibly too,is your party planning any further anti firearms ownership legislation?

Would they consider re evaluating a definition of what a "firing range " is in legislation?IOW a specificlly built place run for profit with fixed points and fixtures and fittings.Not the side of a safe embankment on private property where generations have been shooting safly.

A gun is a gun is a gun.On that basis would they consider doing away with the restricted/unrestricted categories and simplify this to simply "good reason" to aquire and liscense.Rather than an extra layer of garda beauracy requiring "an extra super good reason "to own certain types of firearms?

Would they be in favour of serious investigation by the Garda ombudsman and possibly charges being brought against members of on Garda Siochanna of any rank,who "lose" extremly confidential firearms applications with a myriad of personal information of Irish gunowners in the Garda station??After all, all the other busisness of aGarda station doesnt seemingly go amiss as regulary as firearms applications?Tickets,summonses,arrest warrents etc,dont get lost,just FAC applications....Funny that!

Would they be in favour of intorducing legislation that if a gun owner is sucessfull in a DC application.The Super or CSuper is obliged then to issue the FAC with in period of no less than fourteen calender days of the judgement??

Would they be in favour of removing the firearms liscensing system in its entirity from AGS,and it being handled by a competant trained and knowledgeable body of civillian administration and personel,with the legislative power to grant or refuse liscenses?

i would like to see a comittee put in place to oversee refusals and not the dc..as ye know many of us could afford the costs and had to surrender our pistols,
also airgun question needs to be looked at ie power limits to allow young people get into the sport without having to jump through hoops and allow us to import airguns from countries where they are much cheaper.
loads of other things.
btw fg spokesman on justice is alan shatter,i have written to him already.

sfakiaman

cavan shooter wrote: »

Yep, Alan shatter is the Justice spokesman and a former President of the Irish Council against bloodsports.:(

This is exactly the kind of information we need about candidates, they probably all have hidden agendas and we deserve to know before we cast our vote.

Sparks

http://irishshootingpolitics.wordpress.com/2011/02/13/general-election-campaign-2011/

February 13, 2011
General Election Campaign 2011

Once again, the country is going to the polls. And once again, some 200,000 shooters aren’t hearing very much on the candidates’ parties’ policies with regards to firearms licencing and so forth.

Thought I’d ask, and see who responded first and fastest and most favourably, so on twitter the following was sent to Labour, Fine Gael and Fianna Fail, all at the same time:

http://twitter.com/#!/MarkDennehy/status/36816946808754177

@fiannafailparty What is #FiannaFail‘s policy on the Firearms Act, the handgun ban and private firearms ownership?#ge11

http://twitter.com/#!/MarkDennehy/status/36815632360017920

@finegael What is #FineGeal‘s policy on the Firearms Act, the handgun ban and private firearms ownership? #ge11
http://twitter.com/#!/MarkDennehy/status/36814738566561792

@labour What is #Labour‘s policy on the Firearms Act, the handgun ban and private firearms ownership? #ge11

To give credit where it’s due, Labour did in fact respond in minutes, saying that they’d need to get back with a more complete answer and that wouldn’t happen until Monday; fair enough. No response from Fianna Fail or Fine Gael either, but just in case that they’re not as au fait with twitter as you’d expect, this was sent to their email accounts as well:

Hi,

As an Olympic target shooter, I’d like to ask for details on Fine Gael’s policies and plans with regards to the Firearms Act, the handgun ban and private firearms ownership in Ireland, and to invite you to engage with the target shooting and hunting community on shooting.boards.ie to discuss these matters. With some 200,000 licenced firearms owners in the state, I think such engagement would be appropriate during the election campaign.

Regards,

If there’s a response, I’ll post it here, and over on shooting.boards.ie where all three parties will be invited to engage with the shooting community on their firearms policies. The cynic would insist such an effort would be wasted; though experience would tend to weigh the cynic’s viewpoint heavily in this area, the experiment does still seem worthy of an attempt at this time.

Sparks

http://irishshootingpolitics.wordpress.com/2011/02/14/fine-gael-policy-on-firearms/

February 14, 2011
Fine Gael policy on firearms

Received today by email (beating the response from Labour to the email inbox):

Dear Mark,
Thank you for your e-mail. Fine Gael is supportive of target shooting and the use of firearms by sport clubs. However, we also recognize that there is a real need for strict regulation and control of firearms. If elected to government, Fine Gael would continue regulating firearms, while giving due regard to those using them for sport, so as not to hinder there participation in events.
Sincerely,
Ashley Lewis
Fine Gael Campaign 2011

And responded to:

Thank you for your response Ashley, but could I ask for some further details with respect to your party’s intentions if a Fine Gael TD were appointed as Minister for Justice in the area of the Firearms Act?
For example:

* Would there be plans to increase the current level of regulation or to roll back the current level in order to harmonise our regulations with other EU states?
* Would (s)he be willing to remove centerfire target pistols from the Restricted Firearms list, thus allowing them to be licenced again?
* Would (s)he be willing to deregulate target shooting airguns up to 7.5 Joules of muzzle energy as opposed to the current 1 Joule permitted under the Act in order to promote Olympic target shooting in Ireland?
* Would they address the issues raised by medical associations regarding the application for a firearms licence and its implicit – but deemed insufficient by the GPs – granting of permission to Gardai to access medical records?
* Would they be willing to widen the remit of the Firearms Consultation Panel, to make it a permanent body to facilitate access to technical expertise for the Department and to strengthen communications links between the target shooting sports governing bodies and the Department and the Gardai to ensure the smooth working of the Firearms Act?
* What would they intend to do at a strategic level to alleviate the current problems with licencing which have resulted in nearly 200 cases being taken against Garda Superintendents in the District Courts at great expense to all?

And responded back:

Dear Mark,

Thank you for your queries. At this junction Fine Gael has no plans to change the current regulations and legislation concerning firearms. We would welcome any proposals you may have on how to amend current firearms legislation.

Sincerely,
Ashley Lewis
Fine Gael Campaign 2011

And a final reply from myself:

Thank you Ashley, but if Fine Gael has no plans to change the status quo, it would seem that that constitutes a plan to maintain the status quo.

However, I would like to invite you to engage with the shooting community on the topic on http://shooting.boards.ie. Given that there are approximately 200,000 licenced firearms holders in the state, it might be considered worthwhile.

Regards,

Further responses to be posted if they arrive..

Arcto

Hey,

I don't want to start some kind of political screaming match. Just an honest question.

Are any labour party politicians trying to stop hunting?

As soon as someone in the know answers this can a mod lock it to prevent "my partys better than your party" silliness.

Thanks!